MetalMaiden's page

I wanted to clarify that I didn't intend for my original idea to include location. I agree that it should not include that info. I also support the list, however it's displayed, being limited in some way like your settlement or company. Or maybe limited to players who give you permission to see their online/offline status? Or a combination of both. In a game with so much encouragement and need to work with other players, I'm sure we'll find ourselves working with players outside our own settlements or companies. And thus find ourselves wanting to see if those players are online.

I came from a game that had very limited PvP, so it's not something I considered. But how else can you communicate with your friends or other company members? Send everyone a whisper and hope they respond? Or send messages in general chat to see if they respond?

I agree with Kadere

The ability to see if a particular player is online and interact with them remotely (for whispers, party and company invites, etc) is crucial to usability in an MMO, in my opinion. Maybe not MVP, but close.

My MMO experience is pretty limited, so I'm open to other suggestions.

Is there currently, or are there plans for, a way to see which characters are logged into the game? Right now I can hope to see the person in general chat or send him/her a whisper. I'd like to see a way to search for a character to determine if he/she is logged in. It would also be helpful to filter this list by settlement, company, etc.

@Being and @Xeen, I appreciate the encouragement. Like everyone keeps saying, "It's Alpha!" It's just hard not to feel a bit sad for my favorite class, but I'm hanging in there!

In regards to the primary orisons, it was my understanding that their focus is on the effects/conditions they impart and not so much the damage. I've not had much time to play lately, so I don't have first-hand experieince on their effectiveness when combined with a secondary. That being said, a damage boost may still be in order.

@Avari and @Being, I appreciate your support! And Being, I like your bless weapon idea as well.

Once I got the hang of things, I started to have more fun as a cleric. And I haven't done it yet, but I'm planning to try the all-orison-all-the-time method that Jazzlvraz mentioned.

But I have to admit, that even though I tend to agree with most of them, all the posts about how terrible/underpowered clerics are is starting to make me a bit depressed.

Again I'm going to hark on maces and morningstars being divine weapons. The TT cleric tends to use blunt weapons for damage at the low levels and then gets some better damage spells at higher levels. That's how I see the PFO cleric playing out, using maces and morningstars for kills until they get the higher level spells.

How about a mechanic that gives Clerics divine achievements for using their deity's favorite weapon? I don't know if there's currently a mechanic, or plans for one, that allows a cleric to choose a deity. But I think there's a good argument for tying this to divine achievements since it's directly related to the cleric's deity.

Maybe this could lead to most clerics worshiping a certain deity so they get access to the weapon, but I still like the idea.

How about achievements for selling items at the Auction House? Could generate Social or Crafting related achievements?

I posted a lot of my concerns about divine achievements in my divine achievements thread, so I'm definitely in support of non-killing ways to again achievements.

The first thing that came to mind are achievements for exploration. Such as:

Explore/visit X number of hexes
Explore/visit X number of hex types (mountains, woodlands, etc.)
Travel X number of miles from home settlement

or something along those lines. Not sure how doable this is or how easy it would be for characters to achieve these, but it's just a starting idea.

Primaries--in all categories, not just orisons--are designed to use less Stamina, do less damage, and to impose Conditions; Secondaries use more Stamina, do more damage, and take advantage of the Conditions set by Primaries. They're designed to be complements, and to allow your Primaries to set Conditions that you and others in your group can take advantage of, while their Primaries open chances to use yours most effectively as well.

This makes a lot of sense. I'll have to start paying more attention to the spell effects. So far I've been more concerned that I cast the right spell, and not whether or not it was coordinated well.

Though I'd still like more flexibility of placement. If two spells complement each other, I'd like to put them next to each other! For me that would be more intuitive.

When it comes to mixing damage and heal/buffs, my co-ordination is so poor that I've started keeping both weapon slots filled with foci, and then having one focus's toolbar slots filled with damaging orisons, and orisons supporting damage, and the other filled with healing and buffing. I switch between the two depending on whether there's anyone else around who might need me not to damage her :-).

I've also considered doing this! Glad to see someone else thinking the same thing.

Its not that hard to shoot the approaching wolf down to almost dead and then switch to Touch of Darkness to finish him off or whirlwind almost all the hitpoints off a mob and the quickly switch to the focus to finish them off.

Has this been effective in a group or are you running more solo? Sounds like it could be difficult in a group, for me at least, since your party members could steal that kill before you can finish with Touch of Darkness, or any other spell.

I know I am struggling to get kills in a group because the wizard is stealing most of them. Darn wizards! Just kidding... sort of.

I just posted in another thread that I've had more luck getting kills while soloing the small groups of 1-2 guys in a heavy escalation area than I did in a group.

We have lots of clerics and cleric training in Tavernhold! :)

Thank you for the gracious invite, I do appreciate it! But I just joined the Keepers of the Circle. Their Ring philosophy and the Ring of Light really drew me in. But I hope to visit Tavernhold someday! I hear you have an entire group dedicated to Desna, and everyone knows that she's just the best deity ever ;-)

In regards to advancing as a cleric, I am also struggling. Just the other day, I decided to run around a heavily advanced escalation area and I just picked off the small groups of 2-3 guys. I got more kills doing that for 15 minutes, than I did running in a group for an hour because our wizard was getting all the kills.

That being said, I'm hoping the changes that Bob Settles mentioned in the Divine Achievements thread will help once implemented.

I think I'm also struggling because I am used to ranged healing, since I came from DDO. But I'm getting better the more I play. Though I really wish I could organize my spells on the hotbar in any way I choose. I know how I need to organize things in order to be effective and I don't like being forced to put my spells in a certain area. The other day I accidentally attacked my husband instead of healing him. Major oops! I went from over 7k reputation to just about 700. If I can't get more coordinated, I may be in bad shape!

Also, if I want to run with 6 secondary orisons, why can't I? Maybe I haven't played enough to see that this would be a bad idea?

Do spells cast from a holy symbol have the same placement restrictions? I've not been able to train any yet, so I have no experience with them.

Gedichtewicht of Brighthaven wrote:

From the latest release notes:

The Skeleton, Cultist and Elite Cultist Slayer Achievements now in the Divine category instead of the Adventure category.

Yup, snuck that into the build yesterday, in part because of this thread. Crowdforging FTW!

I don't post much, but I'm glad my initial question led to some good discussion, which then contributed to some changes in the game.

@Bob Settles
I know it was already said, but again the cleric community thanks you.

I've both gotten the Social Achievement--don't remember the name--and advanced it, by killing myself multiple times. One or two of the knowledge Skills are gated by that Achievement, and I wanted to advance them.

Isn't that something people can take advantage of to advance that achivement then? Or will it not be worth it to kill yourself a lot?

We can attack ourselves, and we can heal enemies, as a consequence of the friendly-fire aspects of the code. I'm hoping something can be done about the "whack yourself in the head with a big piece of metal" part, but we'll see where we end up as we go along.

I would also hope something can be down about casting a fireball at your own face.

I've not tested it, but I've been repeatedly told we don't hurt our own Reputations by hitting ourselves; Aggressor flag, yes, but no Rep hit. If you've just found differently, please bug it...a lot.

A couple days ago I attacked myself with a weapon and a spell(can't remember which), and I was hoping this was a bug. So we won't hurt our own Reputations but we could accidentally kill ourselves?

Here's the world map Ryan posted for us to use. The game runs just fine windowed, so you can Alt-Tab, or Taskbar-switch, to your heart's content to reference it while you play.

Awesome, thank you! I can't access GW while at work, and I've not had much luck at home, so I haven't spent much time there.

This will be very handy to have.

Kindleburn's southeast of Thornkeep.

Thanks! I can't make out any of the names on the map. I've seen town names mentioned on the boards, but haven't found a readable map of the Alpha area, so I'm not sure where most things are.

You'll probably find highly-advanced escalations in lots of places by now. On your minimap, you'll've noticed there a symbol at 10 o'clock on the outside ring that tells you the type of hex you're in; if you're near an escalation, you'll see a second symbol to the right of the hex-type one.

Right. I think I saw the escalation symbol in the PFO user guide that's on the Covenant of the Phoenix website. Oddly though I didn't notice it while I was playing. I think I was just too concerned with navigating through all the monster camps!

No need to apologize :)

In the Razzmiran cultists Escalation, when you defeat the cultists, sometimes you find their 'holy' books (or some-such thing), and if you bring the books to a fire (specific fire indicated on the map) and burn the book, you gain an achievement.

As for the divine escalation achievements, I am not exactly sure of the details like 'how many opportunities are there to gain Divine in an escalation' as of the current build.

I think I see what you mean. Would you only find the holy books at the end of defeating the entire escalation, or is that something you can find when you take out a single camp/group of cultists?

I think one of the divine achievements says "Bless item to complete escalation." So in your example, perhaps you can find some item to bless? Like a cursed artifact?

The last couple days, we have been exploring near the town(not sure of it's name) SE of Thornkeep, and I think there's a pretty big escalation happening in that area. Lots of "broken" enemies like broken archers, broken wolves, etc. So if anyone's looking for one, head there!

At present, Divine achievement-counters can be incremented only by:

- landing the killing blow on a Monster with an Orison cast through one's Focus, or
- performing either of two appropriately-typed Escalation activities

Escalations are, in my experience, very much group-related activities, as the monsters seem to appear in larger packs, and those packs in higher densities. For someone still building a support-network in-game, that might leave only doing damage as an option.

My question was off topic in the other thread, so I moved it here. Sorry about that.

I don't usually follow the messageboards or the GW blog, so apologies for all the questions. I've had a lot since I started playing the Alpha, and I've been trying to search to see if they've already been answered before posting.

I did see the escalation activities. I think one was related to blessing items and another to converting...something. I can't log into the game now and don't remember the exact titles. But I don't know what it means or how to complete them.

Does anyone know what you need to do to for these achievements?

I just started playing Alpha 8 last week, and I have a lot of the same concerns (some of which I already posted and did receive some good advice!). My preferred role is also cleric in both PnP and MMOs. I prefer to heal and support. Dishing out damage just hasn't interested me as much.

I've played Ultima Online, but can't remember it well enough to compare to PFO. I most recently came from DDO where combat and healing is MUCH different than PFO, and I’ve been struggling. So far I've managed to heal a bad guy and attack myself (which flagged me as an aggressor). I hope attacking myself is a bug. I've also watched my poor husband die numerous times because I couldn't heal him fast enough. But I think that's mostly due to the fact that I only have the one healing Orison.

Touch range healing is really new to me, but I think I'm getting better with practice. Right now I think there will need to be very good coordination and communication between healers and other players.

Thanks to advice from others on the boards (thank you to KoTC Edam Neadenil and T7V Jazzlvraz), I've had pretty good luck killing guys with combinations of Doom, Bleeding Touch, Holy Lance, and Touch of Darkness. I keep focusing on this because I’m trying to get the Divine 6 achievement so I can gain a level. Is there any other way to get Divine achievements in the Alpha?

I can’t say that I love things right now, but I seem to be getting better the more I play. I haven’t joined a company yet, so I hope all my posts about struggling won’t make people scared to let me join! ;-)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I had good luck with doom, bleeding touch, and touch of darkness. Though I'm still pretty clumsy when I want to heal myself and others. My left hand has never worked so hard in its life. Hopefully I'll get better with practice.

Thank you for the feedback, Edam Neadenil. Normally I'm totally okay playing a supportive-buff-healer type cleric. But right now it seems like the only way to get Divine achievements is by killing monsters.

Also, regarding keywords, I get that basic items only have one keyword, but I'm still unsure of what they do mechanically.

Alpha 8 is the first time I’ve played, so I don’t have previous releases to use as a comparison. But after playing, most of my reactions have been frustration and sadness.

I agree with a lot of what Pyronous Rath has said about combat and targeting. I came from DDO, and I understand that PFO is a different style. I also played Ultima Online. Off the top of my head I can’t remember the controls or how combat worked, but I do remember that I didn’t have problems. With PFO I’m really struggling.

Goes something like this TAB 11111111111 TAB 1 TAB TAB ^%$@ SH&^ 1111 222 !@#$# RAGE QUIT.

I said almost the exact thing to my husband the other night when we were playing, minus the rage quit. I feel more like I’ll have to memorize a string of keys and numbers in order to be effective. I’m also struggling with targeting and have almost attacked my husband several times. Maybe I just need more practice, and I’m still willing to try. But I’m not naturally picking up on this style and at the risk of sounding pathetic, I feel like a total failure as a player and a Cleric and no one will ever want to play with me because I suck. I’m not mad about it. I’m just plain sad because I was excited about the game.

Am I missing something or is it hard for clerics to kill things with their spells? My husband and I have been playing with a couple friends. Both are playing wizards and one of our friends just runs around kiting everything, while I watch my poor husband, a fighter, try to chase the monsters and get in a couple of swings. I try to cast a few spells to get some kills but I can only get in one or two spells before the wizard kills the monster. I feel like I’ll never get Divine achievements. Kiting everything just isn’t fun for me, and I don’t see myself playing if this remains effective.

I’m very grateful for the user guides so many people have put together. Without them I think I’d be worse off. And while all the info is helpful, it’s also frustrating. I’d like to be able to log in, play the game, and understand my character within the game, without having to rely on tons of spreadsheets. Even after reading lots of posts and guides, I’m still unsure of some mechanics, like keywords. I understand you need them to be more effective, but what do they actually DO? If acolyte’s battle focus tier 1 has the keyword divine and bless 1 has the keyword divine, what does that do in the game? Also do the keywords themselves mean anything? I'm not the type of person who is satisfied if someone tells me wear this armor and take this feat, then you'll be awesome. I want to understand why.

Finally, how do people know things like each Orison grants .036 Wisdom? Is this in a tooltip that I'm missing or did someone figure this out through trial and error?

On a positive note, I do like the potential for options in the game. I think it will really let you customize your character, and that’s something I enjoy. The towns and buildings look really cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing active taverns.

Congratulations, Lora! You definitely deserve it. The details of your costume are truly amazing.

I can't wait to see what everyone comes up with next year.

I can't vote but I wanted to give Tiffany props for getting this whole crazy ball rolling. I'm never going to forget her coming up to James and me at Gen Con in 2008 and being like "Hi! I'm a cleric of Desna" and our jaws hitting the floor. That was the best!

Thanks, Wes! I remember thinking, "Oh gosh! I hope they don't think I'm weird or creepy!"

I'm not going to vote, but I just wanted to tell everyone how awesome their costumes are. The detail on Lora's is amazing! And I love that Harsk even has his animal companion.

Great job everyone! I hope there are even more next year.

It’s awesome to see that so many people came to Gen Con in Pathfinder costumes this year. What a change from last year! I hope it grows more and more each year.

I know I spent a lot of time working on and agonizing over some of the details of my costume, so I’m sure others did, too. Heck, mine was really simple compared to most of them! But I’m guessing everyone would like to see those details. I sure do! So, if you have any other pictures of your costume please post them so we can all see!

You can see more details of my costume here.

Xpltvdeleted wrote:

Sandwich in a can

Humanity has now reached the pinnacle of its culinary journey. This (combined with pancake batter in an easy-cheese dispenser) have to be the most amazing things ever invented (aside from bacon).

Bacon Salt trumps Sandwich in a Can. It's even kosher; that's how miraculous it is!

I love their motto "Everything should taste like bacon"! Ha! Apparently even envelopes?? Who eats envelopes? I guess I would if it tasted like bacon!

What happens if you put bacon salt on a slice of bacon?

Amiri.

Three iconics.

I wish we could have gotten a picture of everyone that came in costume. Hopefully next year!

I’m 28 and have been playing for about 13 years. I can’t remember if I started with 2E AD&D or the Palladium RPG. I’ve also played a bit of Changeling: The Dreaming. Now I mostly play 3.5.

I didn't get many, but luckily I was able to snag one with Amiri!

MetalMaiden wrote:

I can finally, officially say that I will have a costume this year! I'm am so excited, especially since last year was such a fiasco.

Hope to see lots of people in costume this year!

That's awesome! Who are you going as? An iconic or?

Definitely come see us at the booth! I want pics with peeps from the boards!

I'll be coming as the harrower. It was supposed to be my costume last year, but all the plans fell through at the last moment, so it didn't happen.

I wonder what day everyone will wear their costumes. It would be great to get a giant group picture. I was planning to wear mine on Saturday.

I will definitely be at the booth.

I can finally, officially say that I will have a costume this year! I'm am so excited, especially since last year was such a fiasco.

Hope to see lots of people in costume this year!

I just wanted to thank everyone for saying that Kelly and I should both win the contest. It was really thoughtful. And Kelly, your costume is pretty awesome.

I did have a new costume planned for this year, so when I found out about the contest I was thrilled. Unfortunately, things fell through at the last minute, and it wasn’t finished in time. So, I am hoping to have two new costumes next year!

Thanks again, everyone! And thank you, Paizo!

This is awesome! I had a new costume planned for this year, but unfortunately it didn't work out. The person who was making it bailed out on me at the last minute. I guess I'll just have to have two new costumes next year.

I'm excited to see what people come up with.

vampires dragons and egyptian kings youth gangs in postwar new york

Where in the world is matt
Where in the world is carmen sandiego

What the font
What the duck

Stop the thyroid madness

Google is making us stupid
Google is your friend

Elephants are larger than the moon
Elephants are contagious

Chess should totally only be played with pawns. I mean, with kings, queens, and knights on the board, there's definitely nothing for the pawns to do. Those higher level pieces are always running all over the board and snuffing out problems as soon as they occur. And they never leave anything for the pawns to do.

I always liked genasi, myself. A paizo version would be nice

I second that!! After elves, the genasi (all types, including para-genasi) are my favorite races to play.

I have recently been in a fairly large debate with my gaming group, specifically our DM about characters having creative liberties with the game. I say the more options we have the more fun we have. He says, he wants to stick to the 3 core 3.5 books like they are the 10 commandments. Now I do not believe this to the point that you get crazy with it, but as long as you can rationalize it in an understandable way and balance any gains out with some loss it should be good.

What is everyone elses take? more options = more fun?

As a player I definitely love options. Especially since I usually choose a theme for each of my characters. I've found that it's hard to get really in depth with a theme if you only stick to the core books. For instance, I played a character with a cold/ice theme once. In terms of feats, spells, and items, there isn't much in the core books. I'm currently playing a character with a chaotic/luck theme and the devotion and luck feats have really helped enhance that.

You can certainly role play your theme, but I love to role play the theme and actually have in-game mechanics as well.

Having tons of options certainly opens the door for players to go crazy and create totally insane characters. But I think DMs need to step in and set boundaries.

You can always choose to use less options. It doesn't really work the other way around.

So I agree. More options = more fun.

Thanks to everyone who's given me positive feedback about the costume and the baked goods. I really appreciate it!

Where can I find the audio for the Pathfinder seminar or any other Paizo stuff for that matter?

The audio for the Adventure Path seminar is under Pathfinder General Discussion. The thread is Paizo Seminars at GenCon.

Argh! Typically bad pic of me. I know you can't tell, but I really was excited to be there!

Oh, you look fine. And thanks so much for the picture! I was relieved that everyone liked the costume. I was a little afraid you'd think I was creepy and weird.

Yeah, afterward I was like "Huh, do you think we creeped her out with kind of kidnapping her? Hope not!" But yeah, we had just been talking the night before about how we'd know that we'd truly "arrived" when people started doing Pathfinder cosplay. Then we turned around and this! Yay! So yeah, totally made our day!

Funny that we were both worried about appearing creepy. I wasn't creeped out at all! On the contrary, I was glad you kidnapped me. I was excited that you were excited. Lots of excitement going on!

We immediately started discussing how next year we're going to need to do something for anyone who comes dressed as an iconic! Hear that folks! Just try to stick to iconics of the same gender--No Big Guys Dressing As Seoni! You hear me!

Ah man, an iconic! I better start lifting weights so I can carry around all that equipment that Mr. Reynolds gives those characters! Too bad none of the iconics worship Desna. Hmm, I wonder who I should pick? I better start thinking now.

I was actually considering dressing as a Harrower next year, so now I guess I’ll have three costumes.

Yay! Our pleasure! And just wait for Gods & Magic, we'll get you plenty of inspiration in there for your outfit for NEXT Gen Con!

I’m really looking forward to this book. Maybe I’ll get some inspiration for adding to the Desnan costume.

Here's a link to some more pictures:

More Costume Pictures

I have other gaming related pictures here, but you can see more of me in the costume in the Gen Con 2008 set.

I had tons of fun with this costume. It was simple, but it served it's purpose. I really wanted to show my support for Paizo at Gen Con, so I thought a costume would be a great way. And since Desna is my favorite deity, I decided to dress as one of her followers.

I was watching my husband demo Yetisburg when Wes approached me and asked, very excitedly, "Are you dressed as a cleric of Desna?!" Once I confirmed that I was, he then proceeded to drag me over to James Jacobs. Both seemed very excited that someone had created a Pathfinder related costume.

I'm very pleased that it made them happy. And I hope that they (and everyone else at Paizo) know how happy they've made me and my husband. We both love Paizo and all the quality products they produce. They've really taken our gaming experience to the next level, and we just can't get enough! Thanks, Paizo!

David Fryer wrote:

Listening to the audio of the Adventure Path Seminar it was mentioned that a picture of Tiffany in her Pathfinder costume would be posted on the blog. I have not seen it yet. What's going on? I want my Pathfinder cosplay fix.

It just got posted. :)

Yeah! I'm Tiffiny!

I was wondering if they were still going to post it. I have a few more pictures if people are interested. I can put a link to them. I have some close ups of the starknife, my pin, and my necklace.

I think you guys are confused. Uzzy is talking about a fictional organization in the Forgotten Realms that gave it's members a pin (of a Harp.) Other Harpers knew eachother by the pin, bad guys knew the Harpers by the pin. And powerful figures knew the Harpers by the pin.

Think of the US Marshal's badge in the old west, the blue tabard of the Musketeers, heck.. the lightsaber of the jedi.

It's an item characters (PC and NPC a like) to identify themselves as members of the organization. Not something for super geeks to wear around in public and get strange looks.

It definitely sounded like something to buy since the thread is called "Product Idea" and Uzzy says "having a physical Wayfinder would be a nice product to sell. I know I'd get one!"

Sounded like Uzzy was saying he wished Paizo would make wayfinders so we could buy them.

A harrow dek is something for PCs and NPCs to use, but Paizo made those to sell.

Regardless of what Uzzy meant, I still think a wayfinder as a product would be cool, and I'd probably get one.

Oh! I love both of these ideas. I was actually thinking of making my own wayfinder, but I would definitely buy one from Paizo.

And pins would be great. Like Michael said, then you could wear one anytime.

My husband and I wanted to sign up for one of the scenarios, but haven't done it yet. In case we can't get in, I had a question.

Are the games open to spectators? Would we be able to watch one of the games if we can't get in? Or is it only open to the GM and players?

Thanks!

Happy Birthday!!!

Today is my mom's 70th birthday as well. My birthday was Saturday (36th) so you're in good company. :)

My birthday was on Friday. Yay for April babies!

Happy Birthday, Erik. Thank you for all your contributions. You (and everyone at Paizo) have made playing D&D even more awesome.

There’s obviously tons of discussion about the new skill system. So, I figured I better get my two cents in soon. I think the current systems works pretty well, and if changes are made, they should be minor.

Design Focus: Skills

1. Pathfinder: The system presented in Skills chapter of the Pathfinder RPG.

I definitely do not like this system. I understand that you’re trying to make the skill system simpler, but players just get way too many skills with this one. And like many others before me have said, I don’t like that you’re suddenly an expert in skills gained at higher levels, even though you just learned it. I don’t think ease of use is a good enough reason for such a drastic change. Whenever possible, changes should also make sense in game, within the context of the campaign world.

I’m okay with combining skills. In fact I think a few should’ve already been combined- like open lock and disable device. As it stands, though, too many skills have been combined, and some don’t even make sense to me.

Acrobatics- too many skills in one. Maybe balance and tumble, because tumbling requires balance.

Why spellcraft and concentration? I don’t see how knowledge of spells and the ability to concentrate are related. What about concentration checks to use skills? Or does concentration now only apply to spells and spell related actions?

Bluff and sense motive also don’t make sense to me. I don’t think being able to sense motive also implies that you are equally good at bluffing. It would make more sense to include intimidate in bluff because intimidation is often a kind of bluff. Plus, being able to understand someone’s motive isn’t deception. Paladins should be able to nderstand a person’s intent, but they don’t usually try to deceive people.

Sleight of hand and open lock? I think open lock and disable device make more sense.

Hide and move silently- I don’t think they should be combined because they are separate techniques, but they are closely related enough that it wouldn’t bother me too much.

Perception- while I like that touch, smell and taste now have uses, I just think this is too many skills in one. I don’t like that by taking perception all your senses are equally honed. Perhaps it would be better to include touch, smell, and taste in a feat or another separate skill of their own? Also, I don’t think that search should be included in perception. It bothers me because search doesn’t use intelligence anymore. So rogues won’t be as good at searching because most rogues have a high intelligence, not wisdom. Searching is something meticulous, hence the related ability score is intelligence. Whereas spotting and listening are more instinctive, so they use wisdom.

Linguistics- I feel about the same way with decipher script/forgery as I do with hide and move silently. I prefer them separate, but combining them wouldn’t be horrible. Speak language should remain separate, however, but the number of languages you have should provide a bonus to deciphering and forging.

No use rope? So how do you use a rope then? And if someone is trying to escape from being tied up, what is the opposed check?

2. 3.5 OGL:The system presented in the 3.5 OGL.

Definitely keep skill points- this allows for the most variety and customization. Of all the choices presented, I like this one the best. I’m not saying that it’s a perfect system, I’m just saying it’s the best of the ones presented.

I do have a few suggestions for improving the skill system without drastically changing it.

1. Keep the current 3.5 system with the following changes:
- Combine open lock and disable device, related ability score: Int
- Synergy bonuses should advance as you advance in skill, rather than having a flat +2 once you achieve 5 ranks. It makes sense that as you advance in skill, the skills that provide synergy bonuses should also work better together.
- Suggested bonus: +1 synergy bonus for every 5 ranks?
2. Use the above system with the following additions:
- Increase skill points for each class by 2
3. Use system #1 with the following addition:
- Class skills are combined when multiclassing. For example, if you have levels in rogue and fighter, your class skill list is the combined list for both classes. But, your skill points at each level still depend on which class you take at that particular level.
4. Use all of the above
5. Use the current system or system #1 and combine a few more skills in addition to open lock and disable device.

3. Combination: Using the system in the 3.5 OGL for characters, and using the system in the Skills chapter of the Pathfinder RPG for NPCs and monsters (noting that they would not get additional skill choices at higher levels). This system gives NPCs and monster that multiclass a slight edge (depending on the class), but makes them quite a bit easier to create.

I'm 100% against this suggestion. I don't like when PC and NPCs/Monsters use different rules. This suggestion is just too "gamey," and doesn't make sense in game.

I hope I haven’t questioned something that’s already been answered. I apologize if I have. I’m slowing making my way through this huge thread. Of all the changes, the skill system bothered me most, so I’ve been trying to compile all my thoughts and finally get them posted.

My post was temporarily MIA, but now it's back (thanks to Vic Wertz). I hope it's ok for me to give it a little bump because we're still looking for some feedback.

Thanks!

RETH-Mog wrote:

Heh. Yeah, that was my wife that posted that. We just figured that the post got eaten. But apparently it was there, and something just got messed up. Thanks for re-posting the text there. If it doesn't find it's way back, we can re post it.

Well, THAT shouldn't happen! I have managed to resurrect it, and Gary thinks he knows a way to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Thanks! I was just going to repost it and now I don't need to. I appreciate it.