Mayhem Havocrain's page

Is Flaming Sphere and Scorching Ray worth a -4 to weapon attacks? Because that's all you get access to that is not reproduced on the Flame bonus spells.

As a spontaneous caster spell options/flexibility is key. I was not sure how much mileage I would get out of scorching ray but flaming sphere, I felt was going to be a really useful and constantly applied spell. It turns out that both are useful but scorching ray, increasingly more so.

Flaming sphere: because of my build (setting things on fire), this is an excellent spell to cast at the very beginning of combat I either cast this, fireball, or sun metal. The sphere gets cast the most on round 1. Sun metal the least.

The ability to 'nova' on damage is valuable since either a no action (if they don't move out of the sphere) or move action 3d6+6(or 9), combined with a 10d6+20(or 30) fireball, and potentially a quickened 8d6+16(or 24) scorching ray, with every single one of those spells healing an ally for half my HD and granting a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls for a round and immolating my target for 2 or 3 damage a round for the next four rounds, then being set on fire as with alchemist fire and depending on what I chose to do, also dealing its level in fire damage as it continues to burn some more....that can all add up very, very, fast.

Flaming sphere is goof at spreading the heat, intimidating foes and controlling their movement as well as simply giving you more choices on what you can do in a single round without expending resources. It's good stuff.

Scorching ray: this is a spell I like to use for single target murdering or for spreading the heat to multiple foes, particularly when one is near dead and another is fresh for some softening up. It is a nice alternative for when saving throws on enemies get annoying. Most can't deal with the +9 to +11 ranged touch very well. Unlike flaming sphere, this spell scales on a couple of fronts, allowing it to remain relevant all the time in virtually every combat. The best part here is the precision aspect which you really lack with all of your other spells. Fireball and burning hands hit areas. Flaming sphere and others are single target. But with scorching ray you can unload torpid hell onap a single foe- at range, or cherry pick multiple targets at range. I find that I have increasingly been falling back on this spell for one reason or another as I advance.

I have a +1 or +0 melee attack bonus. I'm a petulant child with boorish tendencies and who was designed to blow things up. Do I miss having that +4 to hit in melee? No. But I would miss having the two spells above if I suddenly had to go without them. Their loss would dramatically change my approach to combat.

Because this is relevant.

Mine was sixth level and went through Bonekeep crippled due to gm fiat and enemy resistances and still was the sole reason our group survived (I was dealing all the damage). We cleared more than half of the dungeon, lost a player, defeated the boss and I was the last one standing.

In the home game, this exact same gnome flame oracle is the party MVP (they voted) as he was the most useful (very careful selection of spells known), highest damage dealer (consistently nuking for 10dx+20 or 30) against single targets and groups. I believe the average damage per spell cast is around 60. 35 from the dice, and 20 or 30 depending on what I am doing. Enemies have max HP and do take a while to drop, but now at 10th level the burning damage from alchemical power components and burning magic and the burning spell metamagic are becoming extremely relevant and boosting damage substantially higher. We are entering the 'enemies go after the caster' stage of the game because the combat contributions when I can deal raw damage are too hard to ignore. Never mind the constant stream of healing and buffs that are provided by me simultaneously as I blast..it's not as good as our clerics healing-not even close, but it definitely is making a difference between whether someone can afford to stay in the fight, whether they hit negative con and die, or if they go KO or not. The minor buff to hit seems trivial but really has come in handy as often as a 5% bonus can be expected to (which over the course of a single fight is usually once or twice as our battles are not rocket tag because enemies are tough and the tanks and myself are very resilient).

The gnome racial bonus is a real boon and produce flame and smart use of cantrips really help when you need to preserve your prodigious number of spells (because you will run low). The character is strong enough to opt to rp during combat and not die or get others killed due to not killing enemies. He's also got some glaring weaknesses which I refuse to address: poor saves and low strength. He's died once and nearly died a second time (failed save) and he serves as the party trapfinder so there is plenty of risk. The only real steps I take to deal with the escalating threat of deadly saves is high initiative and nasty dot to force impossible (ok, just high) concentration checks for enemy spellcasters. But that's it.

I am a buttload of fun to play. Don't let nobody dissuade you from playing with fire or playing as a gnome. :D

Not very mad at all. It is easy to have a 17 base str, 14 dex, 14 con and 14 into to start before racial adjustments or the transmuter bonus. As you level, that transmuted bonus and any magic items and your level advancement bonus make stat distribution a non-issue. I was being lenient when I put the str at 22 as it is very likely it will be 24-26 instead without the other stats being penalized in any way.

Asf will happen. I am OK with a character not being perfect. Not that I will be doing a lot of casting in combat. First round buff and move action to wear shield, unless I am using a full round spell like enlarge person. But depending on the situation, there are the occasional potions for that.

The feat plan was not an actual plan. I should have !mentioned that I was just listing those feats in no particular order. I did, however, mention that going one weapon was better than selecting two different ones for twf. It absolutely does save feats- but some people might want two different weapons, so even with that drawback, I proved it could be done.

Even without buffs my numbers show a very clear level of competence in combat. While I make no claims as to being able to outdamage a charging cavalier on horsback while raging on a pouncing barbarian mount who is sharing his rage with him, all builds do plenty of useful damage and have fun things to do besides that because hey- wizard in melee.

The multiclassing is just sort of a requirement if you're going into eldritch knight. A single level dip in fighter works as well but delays the last feat. Ek's get a bonus fighter feat at level 5 so no matter what you end up with the same number. Pure wizard is fun, too and still can work. It requires more careful building and is rather difficult in core, but more viable with all material available.

And while a crit build may be more than just a high threat weapon made keen, improved critical is a 9 Bab feat making it a late game feat chain to enter for anyone, period. Furthermore, not many characters are landing critical hits with any frequency or in any great number that early in their careers. At fifth level our wizard has 2 attacks a round with a 15-20 threat range and viable damage and to hit and probably has not spent any more on their weaponry than anyone else, it's possible they have spent less if they are using any foresight. There are, of course, levels where the wizard tapers off or falls behind but so what? He can still break reality and still bash face really well. Heck, he still gets ninth level spells and the into to cast them. Pummeling wizard am amazing!

This looks like an.... interesting concept to roleplay. Shame the numbers don't match up, and you'll be halfway through your career before the basics for feats kick in, nevermind the full package.

Be wary about shields. Arcane spell failure is a thing. Low BaB and TWF penalties means a whole lot of missing. Plus, casting in melee means eating AoOs or trying for concentration checks. And since those checks have a chance of failing, It's basically an extra chance to fizzle on top of shield penalties.

A mockup crit build is functionally impossible, since the juicy crit feats require BAB 11 or higher.

I'm curious as to how your math worked out; your chance to hit at 5th level should be more like a +4 or 5 with TWF and your transmutation bonus set to strength.

Asf- it's part of the game. Oh no, I failed at something. It happens. Shrug. Shield will be mithril to keep the failure rate from being too frequent.

At level 5 we can have a 22 strength and a Bab of +2 assuming we went pure wizard. That's a +8 to hit and +6 to damage. This is the baseline.

Twf quarterstaff:
Weapon focus: quarterstaff, twf, arcane strike, dodge.
+1/+1 quarterstaff. First round of combat, enlarge person or heroism or haste maybe.

Attack bonus total: +10 (+12 with heroism, +11 with haste).
When using twf: +8 (+10 with heroism or +9 with haste).
That is hitting an 18-20 ac on the roll of a 10 at level 5.

A car 5 monster has an 18 ac. A cr 8 monster has a 21 ac. So between level appropriate and epic encounters, we aren't having problems hitting anything. Sure, in the worst matchups- us with only a +8 and no buffs while using twf against an epic challenge and no flanking or support from any of the other characters who should be doing 'something' to help us win the fight- then yeah, I have to roll 13's or better. *gasp*

And I don't know why a crit build is so impossible. The keen edge spell, like heroism, has a duration of ten minutes per level, so it is not unreasonable to assume it is up before a fight even starts (allowing for another buff to be placed).

Scimitar, kukri, shorts words and longswords even, pick a couple of weapons with a reasonable threat range. Cast heroism and/or keen edge before entering a dungeon. You can't always have these up before combat but more often than not, (except during travel ambushes) you can. Ideally, select two of the same weapon to consolidate feats but different ones are OK.

We will assume our wizard is 11th level, took his eldritch knight to level 4 and fighter to 2. He's got five levels in wizard.

His feats are

Wizard-
1.) twf, double slice.
3.) Arcane strike.
5.) Weapon focus: (pick weapon).
Fighter-
6.) Weapon focus: (pick other weapon).
Ek-
7.) Itwf, dodge.
9.) Weapon specialization (pick weapon).
Fighter-
11.) Weapon specialization (pick other weapon). Power attack.

You crit on 15 or 17-20, you have a Bab of +8, 3-4 attacks a round, with an unbuffee attack routine of: +16/+11 when not using twf or any buffs, including greater magic weapon (and why aren't we using it?).
When using twf we have +14/+9/, +14/+9 (unless I did that wrong).

Our base bonuses are +8 Bab, +6 str, +1 enhancement and +1 weapon focus.
This isn't with any effort put forth into actually being good at this- like precasting greater magic weapon for another +1 to hit and damage, using extended heroism (extend spell is our rod or free metamagic feat of choice), no quicken spell, no QuickDraw or use of the same weapon to preserve feats.

Then, we look at pur damage: +6 from str (22), +1 enhancement, +2 arcane strike, +2 weapon specialization, and if we want to power attack with a -3 to hit (and we can afford to take that hit if we are buffed at all) we add an additional +6 on primary attacks and +3 on offhand.

The total damage per hit is 1dwhatever +17 and 1dwhatever +14. Double that up when we crit, and we haven't even hasted.

Crit sounds completely legit. I bet I could make it work as a pure wizard, too (but coming online rather late).

Well, I did the math and a sword and board or two weapon fighting build provide superior results to two-handing. I either do substantially more damage or I have remarkably higher survivability. Outside of core, who knows? Regardless, I wanted something interesting and fun rather than repeating concepts that are defaults (unless they simply prove too cool not to do). I pictured a lightly tanned, bald guy who was muscular as a Greek god and often bare chested. He's often seen at the taverns asking ladies that if they want to feel real power, to take a gander at these guns (then he flexes and grins his big grin).

But the guy is a wizard.

I considered a great club, quarterstaff and various other blunt instruments. I even stepped outside of the silly anime character goofiness and considered a two-bladed sword and two-weapon fighting via crit fishing. 3-5 attacks a round with a 17-20 threat range and retaining the ability to cast seemed pretty spiffy. This is something I may do later down the road for a more serious character.

But this guy isn't serious. He's a joke and ideally going to provide laughs at the table, either by dint of outperforming some martial characters despite not being a martial class, or by the various stories that will be generated from a wizard with a primary attribute being strength, followed by Dex.....then by con....and int is an afterthought.

But he is viable. Whatever style I went with always functioned at or above what would be required at various levels, in melee, while being pure wizard with no fighter levels and one buff max.

So at this point it is an issue of which flavor feels better and how much mechanical advantage can I squeeze out of that flavor. The quarterstaff was too offensive and left ac maxing at around 23, while the hammer and shield pushed ac to nearly 30 (without devoting many resources to it) and by investing in two-weapon fighting and shield bash, increased damage output to something similar to the quarterstaff.

For the record, I think each primary hit on the quarterstaff was dealing 1d6+16 and the offhand was doing 1d6+13 or 14 with some preliminary writeups. I think that at higher level he could squeeze out another 2-6 static damage per hit without upgrading his weapon. The accuracy was at something like +10 before buffs (at wizard 5) depending on what feats I grabbed. The hammer does deal less damage via lower accuracy (no weapon focus-weapon specialization) but the added shield defense and options seem cool enough and worthwhile. I mean, imagine the expressions on everyone's faces when I say 'I'll tank the dragon, the rest of you, go handle the mooks- I got this'.

And I can actually pose a threat to the dragon and protect myself from his claw, claw, nom.

Epic!

I'll put up the quarterstaff build later, when I dig it out of iMessage. And for kicks, I might do a mockup of a crit build, just to see what can be done with it.

For starters, some of you seem to be missing the 'core campaign' aspect.

No archetypes exist in core. I'm not trying to make a truly optimal PC but definitely a fun one. I will likely take that fighter level pretty early, though. The proficiencies and bonus feat will come in handy sooner rather than later.

I considered a reach weapon but it feels lame and not particularly flavorful for this character concept.

16 int is wasted via point buy. I gain nothing out of that.

Shield bashing was a compromise as previously, he just used a quarterstaff and followed the twf tree. I definitely want to sell the wizard aspect the most. The wizard is hitting you for 1d8+11 in melee with his first attack, again with his hasted second, oh- and he's not done bashing you in the face with his shield, oh, and...

And then he starts casting spells.
16 into comes with a +2 headband. His Bab is not really a big deal. His to hit ends up being +9 while using twf at level 5 as a pure wizard. So I am not concerned about actually hitting stuff. I always assume the casting of a single in combat buff and nothing else.

Twf with shield bash seems like too many hats? Feels pretty straightforward and useful to me.

BTW, he has a toad familiar so even as a wizard, first level HP look to be around 11-16. I will probably take the 15 or 16.

His parents thought he was going to be a girl and named him Marilyn. His close friends call him Merryl for short. Among strangers he introduces himself as Power, Maximum Power. Oh yeah.

He hides his insecurity (and real name) through plenty of layers of false bravado. He likens himself to a real life superhero. He thinks fighters are poor sods who only know how to swing pointy sticks and thinks that other wizards are squishy and weak little things because, hey, all they can do is some finger waggling.

But above all else, he thinks that nothing beats a good bash to the face with a large, preferably blunt, object.

Str: 17
Dex: 14-16
Con:12-14
Int:13-14
Wis: 7 (he is a fool)
Cha: 7 (low self esteem, hidden by boisterous bravado).

Human male wizard (transmutation specialist).
Opposed schools: Necromancy and either divination or evocation.

Skills:
Knowledge arcana
Knowledge Dungeoneering
Linguistics
Spellcraft

Extra skills (from into increases etc):
Fly
Diplomacy
Knowledge history/planes
Acrobatics?

Feats:
Two-weapon fighting
Dodge
Toughness
Double slice
Arcane strike
Power attack
Improved shield bash
Shield focus
Shield slam
Arcane armor training or improved two weapon fighting.

Spell focus...? Conjuration, I guess.
Extend spell or quicken spell. Probably quicken with a rod of extend.

Planning wizard 5, fighter 1, eldritch knight 5. Or fighter 2, ek4 for earlier feat access.

Marryl, er, Max- will use a warhammer and a light shield. Until he is proficient he'll deal with a quarterstaff or a club. I was originally going for a full quarterstaff build. But the ac from a shield seemed really useful.

Should be fun. Whacking things ftw!

I seriously doubt whether any DM would allow you to wear multiple items for a given slot and simply change which one is active by using a move action to concentrate.

Funny, because I remember saying something completely different:

So maybe a move action to remove one glove after activating it so that the second glove is ready for use?

@Rumpin Rufus, the first response did not seem to be replying based on any rules source. It sounded like opinion or offhand recollection of rules. I treated it as such. If I took every response made in that way as authoritative, I would have very many improperly understood rules mechanics. So, when I get a response that doesn't use 'I seem to recall' and in that context 'general rule', then I will take it more to heart after a quick fact check.

@Wraithstrike, I think you may be right about the rules being silent here. In some cases, it may be self explanatory and as easy as simply activating the item you want. But in regards to rings, this would be problematic, furthermore there is an item allowing the swift action switching between up to four rings. This implies that items in their slots are set in some way and that additional items don't ever activate if worn at that point.

So, logically this implies that the first item equipped to a slot is the dominant item based on my understanding of the meridian belt magic item.
So maybe a move action to remove one glove after activating it so that the second glove is ready for use?

This leads me to question the intent behind 'both gloves must be worn for the magic to be effective'.

Maybe it just helps refine those specific instances that could crop up. Thoughts?

Yes, but in this case, which one works and when? If I use the gauntlet of rust to make your sword no good, then my gloves of arcane striking are nonfunctional, sure. But let's imagine this:

Wearing gloves of arcane striking and gauntlet of rust.

Round 1: Slap monster while using arcane strike. But it is a rust monster and my gauntlet of rust protects me. I don't get the arcane striking effect because I am using my life rust gauntlets instead. Cool.

Allies: We beat it nearly to death!

Enemy turn: Aha! I am foolish, watch me provoke from you. Neener-neener!
Aoo: I swat you and hit. But right now I want the additional effects from my gloves of arcane striking because maybe the rust monster is surrounded by baby rustlings. What happens? Is this attack now not protected by the gauntlet of rust? How and when do I choose which glove is active since I can clearly wear two different magical gloves?

Normally, this is not an issue because gloves take up both hands. And normally, when wearing two items that take up the same slot it is obvious what needs to be done. Like when wanting to use two different hats you just swap them. But in this case, both items can be worn simultaneously so when each is active and the mechanism for determining which is active kind of matters.

Several magic items which use the hand slots specifically state that 'both gloves must be worn for the magic to be effective', indicating that you gotta stuff your bra all the way. Besides, going halfsies makes it embarrassing if you get groped on date night anyway.

Several magic hand slot items also use the singular when referencing being worn or used or in their description like ye old Gauntlets of Rust. Some have dubious descriptions that can be interpreted as a pair of gloves or a single glove (Deliquescent gloves). Others, like the Poisoners gloves make it clear that each can be used separately and even have different trackable uses per day.

Great. The rules state that there is only one active magic slot for the hands... *looks at his*

I should do my nails.

...However, if you were to wear two different gloves (arcane striking and dilequescent gloves) what exactly happens? Furthermore, what happens if you have a gauntlet of rust worn and a single poisoners glove equipped when a rust monster comes but you attempted to use the poisoner glove that round? Do you lose your immunity to rust? Can you not stick the bad guy with poison? Jabbity, jabbity.....jab?

Are we unable to arcane strike and deal our acid damage? I am trying to munchkin here. Shoot me down or help me out.

Orfamay Quest wrote:

drop your cloak to +4, save 9000 gp, and tell the cleric to prepare guidance.

How does that work? Guidance lasts a minute and only works once.

Sure, it's nice when there's no time pressure, but are you implying it should be kept up on all party members all the time? That your cleric should be using standard actions to cast guidance basically all the time you're in an adventuring area? Certainly shouldn't be casting it combat most of the time and you don't want to be getting into a fight with it being about to expire, so just keep cycling it through the party members?

RAW, it works, as long as you don't need those standard actions for anything, but do people really do that?

As our party rogue, blaster, and mini healer/buffer, I cast Guidance before and after every door listened to, every trap searched for, and each disarmed. I do it before every stealth check and prior to and immediately followed up after making spell craft, appraise, or most any other check possible when not in combat or pressed for time or unable to otherwise intentionally prepare to use a skill or ability. In combat, when I wish to conserve spells, I spend my standard action casting guidance on our least likely to hit martial characters.

It works extremely well and I have virtually a +1 to almost every skill check and many saving throws. This habit has now been adopted, naturally, by all of my other characters with the ability to cast the spell. It makes a difference over time. Trust the Mayhem.

I set multiple fires in the only nearby major city and caused a few explosions. One of our party members also got in a scuff with some guards during the panic and chaos I caused but everyone thought it best to high-tail it out of town almost immediately. The guards blocked our path (not letting anyone out, despite the city being on fire) so we got out of pur cart and helped the citizens beat up the guards so people and ourselves, could escape. That was the only place with clerics of high enough level who could help me. Our own party cleric just recently hit 6th level so is not capable of casting the spell I need, and as an oracle, I did not use one of my spells known to acquire it. Since then, we've been with brigands and exploring an ancient temple-like structure which is essentially a flying tower and we are now on an apparently unknown island with native peoples. We don't know their level but they have no spellcasters besides one who is a cleric that came to visit long before we ever arrived. Depending on his level, he may be able to help me. Statistically, though, he should be under 7th level and unlikely to provide me direct aid. I a! Probably stuck with the curse until our cleric levels or we find a larger settlement so several more sessions seems likely. The chararacter has had the negative level long before setting the city on fire, though.

That is just bad luck, more than a sign of a problem with negative levels if you only fail by one.

I don't consider being down by one level to be that bad, even if it is not desirable.

If the party has a cleric he might be able to summon an outsider that can get rid of it.

Um, what I described has nothing to do with luck. It has everything to do with how a 5% chance to fail at every task can become significant over a period of time or when multiple instances are triggered. Bad luck would have been if I only made 10 rolls and my first 3-4 all failed because of the negative levels -1 penalty. Bad luck would have been if this was only happening in a single session. But after nearly two months of real life time and I still have the penalty and I am rolling more dice and engaging in more instances, the negative levels impact is bound to come up at some point. And it does, every session, multiple times per session.

The negative levels aren't just me acquiring it and then quickly dismissing it with a spell or trip to the local cleric or otherwise contracting it halfway through a scenario and being a fighter so not having to deal with the impact at all or rarely due to ending the condition by scenario's end. I am living with this for entire sessions, back to back to back. During downtime when I try to spell craft items I failed the day before? That negative level is there. When I make a stealth check to hide and reduce the result by 1 and it was enough to get caught- there is that negative level again. But wait! I can bluff....at -1....or diplomacy when the bluff fails.....at -1. Maybe failing all three in a row is bad luck but surely breaking out of my manacles and jail cell shouldn't be a big deal.....with each and every possible skill check: stealth, disable device x2, even disguise, all being at -1. Most characters, even optimized ones don't have such a diverse skill set such as that on top of their core requirements like knowledge's or survival or fly or acrobatics, swim and climb. So at some point somewhere, someone is making just a raw ability check or using a skill they have only 1 to a few ranks in....and that -1 is significant when you're doing things you are only good at or average at and facing against someone else of similar skill or against a task of appropriate challenge. When 50/50 becomes 45/55 wanted against you, it will be noticeable given enough time or attempts that the 5% against you will hinder you.

I was just stating all the recent situations where a simple -1 has caused me to miss important dc's, not disable a level appropriate trap, or capitalized on a poor roll making what might have been a close call a definite failure. I use guidance before and after every skill check by default. But there are enough instances where I cannot cast it and the penalty is even worse.

A single negative level applied for any significant number of rolls or length of time is brutal. More can be crippling.

I died and came back with a negative level which I have had for over a month now. I've gained a level and a half (at least) and while the impact of the negative level initially was less than trivial, it has been decisive in enforcing failures on important and not so important roles. Today, I tried identifying a magic staff we found. I rolled a 19 on the dice and got a 30. Had I not had the negative level, I would have had a 31 which was the DC to identify the item....

Today, we fought a bullette. It did not like me and wailed on me good. I blaster it but it dealt exactly 1 more point of damage than I had HP. Without the negative level, I would have had 4 more HP and could have easily killed it (I had flaming sphere up and plenty of fireballs left).

I have failed caster level checks to beat spell resistance by 1, several times. I have failed to spot or disable traps by rolling 1 shy of the number needed. I make a lot of rolls being the party rogue and artillery. And our gm doesn't shy away from traps. I have failed so many rolls by 1 that the negative level feels like a curse. The worst part is that we are nowhere near a place where I can get it removed (and haven't been for some time).

When a character has the opportunity to acquire a negative level or two but no more, the impact is in the long term, not anything immediate. They will fail checks. Their spell durations will be notably less long, damage dice fewer, etc.

Anything dishing out multiple negative levels is a death machine, though and a gold sink as anyone failing the saves needs to handle the issue quickly or die. As a gm, you want to use negative levels in a situation where the PC's have to spend money that they really need for other things or where they have little recourse besides simply dealing with the negative level for long enough to feel the impact. You have no idea how annoying it is to remember that everything you do is at -1. That scorching ray would have hit for 8d6+16 but I missed the touch ac because my ranged attack bonus is only +6 and I had to subtract 1 or 2. It's a friggin nightmare!!

I like gnomes for the flame oracle since they can take the pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Increased caster level on all fire spells and higher effective level on flame revelations is pretty sharp. Gnomes can also take the favored class bonus that increases your effective level for your curse which can be really handy depending on which curse you take. With deaf, for example, you can have tremorsense 30 at level 10, and you can eliminate those pesky initiative penalties much earlier. They're slow and puny, but a CON and CHA bonus is solid for a caster...

Aww, I like you are too. :)

Oh, and literally being a "Pyromaniac" is awesome for a blaster.

Yup, it is!

Also, some of the spells from the blackened mystery take a while to get and having them a level earlier can really make a difference in how easy it is to play. Having Flaming Sphere at level 4 instead of 5 really makes a difference.

@ op, The rod of selective spell has three charges per day, every day. It ignores a certain amount of squares of an aoe spell equal to your casting stat modifier. This allows you to blast a fireball and selectively ignore your allies and hit the enemies. The feat itself requires ten ranks of spellcraft. That's why I suggested a rod. It will ease your burden a lot for many levels.

In my home game I get to use glorious heat as printed and that adds some excellent in-combat healing and buffs all in one gp just for doing what I do best. I don't abuse the feat by casting cantrips, but healing for 3-4 off a casting sun metal and then giving the weapons wielder a +1 to hit on top of that is just so much awesomeness.

Don't forget to purchase a wand of Selective Spell so you can burning hands or fireball everyone but your allies, even if your team is in melee. Excellent use of 3k gold.

I use Burning magic and alchemical power components. I can say this much: against weaker foes it is a waste of time. Everything dies before it is relevant. Against things that are appropriate for your level and aren't fire resistant, the cumulative fire damage adds up.

Example: You go first and burning hands 3 baddies. kaboom! They take 24 damage and can save for half. One saves and takes 12, the others are not so lucky. Now they go. Uh-oh spaghettio!! The bad guys take 1 damage from the revelation and 1d6 from the power component. That's about 4-6 extra damage with more probably coming on their next turn depending on what you rolled for the duration of burning magic. These guys are nearly toast! Now, of course you're about to get creamed in this situation but if you have the heat aura revelation, defending bone up, a great ac, stunning barrier (preferably greater) or an item that operates like fire shield then you're fine. If you have allies who go before the bad guys or who went already, then the enemies are all dead.

Always face things level appropriate and don't play down in society play and you'll benefit from burning magic. Otherwise it does nothing.

Fire resistance is the most common by over double of the next, same goes for fire immunity.

This information is factually incorrect. There are more cold resistant monsters than fire and more of them with higher resistances. Electricity is a close third. Electricity also has more monsters with immunity than fire. There are a few threads that give a breakdown. However, new material since their posts may have altered the data. Also, check the links in reverse order since the last one is older than the first. :)

As a one trick pony, I have not been shut down yet. Mischief and I just blast and blast and everything burns. Fire resistance is never something I care about unless they also have spell resistance and I am rolling poorly. My strategy for fire resistant creatures is to burn them dead and make their resistance meaningless. So far, this hasn't worked but then every fire resistant monster faced has also had spell resistance and I have not rolled higher than a 6 to penetrate it except twice (in which case they proceeded to save and take nothing or very little damage).

But I am positive that the second I beat resistance and they don't save, their resistance really won't matter.

I will run in terror and with an unfair glare in my eye from anything with fire immunity.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

@Sebastian Eh. I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think it is so much of a big deal in an actual game, though I admit not every player would appreciate any given thing a gm does. So a player could be offended by a gm having a character get pregnant, etc. But let's be fair. I have had players get offended because I had them attacked, or get lost, or take damage. It didn't matter if said players were rewarded ten seconds earlier. They just didn't trust me and thought I was cheating. When you have players or GM's who are offending you and that you cannot trust in general- you're in the wrong game. It is that simple.

Would I have a player get pregnant or catch an std? If I thought it would make for a memorable moment or story arch in game- heck yeah! I probably would go out of my way to make sure it wasn't a simple curable disease either. That doesn't even sound very fun unless I could keep the player unaware of it. Not likely. No, as gm I want hilarity and jokes and mockery and all of that. He's catching a unique magical disease that slowly does something he rreeally doesn't want but which everyone will find quite amusing. Probably sidequest worthy. Sure, our male harlot is pregnant or our free-spirited female is growing obvious chest hair and face whiskers. Yes, they may have some obnoxious little disease on top of that with penalties to social situations and skills. But my players roll with the punches. I roll with theirs, after all. After 3-12 session, the issue will likely be resolved and everyone will be able to talk about that one time your promiscuous human male caught an std/curse that always made him appear as a thri-kreen with prominent male and female genitalia that couldn't be obscured by any means.

I usually don't gm anything quite that whacky but boy that sure sounds funny. Even the real life scenes of the player being evidently frustrated by the affliction as he tries to role play around it...is that possible? Doesn't matter. It's funny. As long as everyone is ultimately having fun with it, it's ok. I speak from experience. I am going on about two months with negative levels. I have failed so many checks......frustrated in and out of character. But it is also amusing how a little -1 or -2 is slowly eating away at everything I do, big or small. Just failing an important appraise check because the DC was 20 and I got a 19....it sucks....a lot. Failing my third caster level check in a row to beat spell resistance thanks to the negative level....during a boss fight. All bad things. All still amusing when they happen or when I look back. And I only have the negative level because of a character feature that is rather prominant. The op is trying to do similar.

Mayhem Havocrain wrote:

These line of comments (being repeated after the op already clarified what his stance was) smells a bit of player entitlement opinions seeping into a GM's style of running.

I also clarified I am most definitively female...

That you did. I meant to change it but was growing annoyed that people were completely missing the poing- as though they have never sat down at a table and role played before. Also seems like some people are missing the spirit of your post and failing to make any natural leaps of understanding. The responses seem reactionary and entitlement based and I wanted to point that out and maybe, just maybe, they'd stop and actually respond more in line with your issue and not their personal entitlement issues which don't belong at your table.

But yeah, sorry for not correcting that you were femalez. :)

@Feral, you missed her point or my point or are intentionally exaggerating. If the dwarf just drinks normally or frequently, no problem. It woildn't be noticeable enough of a character trait for a good dm to even try to build any in-game effect around. It would just be tedious and the player would have trouble understanding. This makes sense. But if said dwarf drank excessively, flaunted his drinking and otherwise did things to make it defining then it stands to reason that a fun gm might actually use that for something- with or without the players permission. This is common sense. Does your character set fires in every city he visits? Maybe that will get back to you somehow, some way. It's not necessarily a punishment. Yes, it is a problem to a degree but all in good fun. You're just stretching the believable into the realm of what isn't believable to support your point. If you have ever role played before I would imagine that you've run into the kinds of situations the op is discussing and therefore why are we debating like this?

I guess it is possible you have not been at a table where GMs play off the characters at their tables. I blow things up every where I go. My gm took notice. If he posted a thread about it like this would your arguments still be as inane? I would hope not! I expect my (any) gm to eventually do something in game (and maybe have an out of game discussion possibly if it is disrupting his plans or the story) to address that every city I visit has a fire department- even if they didn't have one before my visit.

I see no reason to punish a player for something like this.

Have you even read the thread? The op is trying to have some in game, appropriate response to a characters actions. Why is this, in your book, punishment? By this weird logic, the gm should not punish his players with combat because they have to go into every tomb and every sewer/dungeon/etc. How dare he punish the players by making them take damage. Or worse face problems based off decisions they've made! *gasps*

Seriously guy?

These line of comments (being repeated after the op already clarified what his stance was) smells a bit of player entitlement opinions seeping into a GM's style of running. I don't like that smell. Reminds me of allergy season.

Some people took this way too...much.

He has a problem (likely personal) with a player who sleeps around all the time. He's the gm not us. We shouldn't be telling him to effectively get over it as long as it doesn't offend our sensibilities or our code.

Claiming that addressing the issue in game in a realistic way no less is somehow the gm perceiving the promiscuity as wrongbadfun? The gm doing something to negstive to a character is punishment? So when the party tank is attacked by a monster and takes damage or adventurers crawl through a sewer and save vs disease that's OK and we don't judge but a gm wants a promiscuous character to maybe catch a disease after sleeping around all the time and we jump on him like the gm is bad? Get real. That kind of bias is soooo irritating.

@ the op, yes, it's totally OK to give, expose, or make him make fort saves for etc, std's. It's your game. Sounds like you're trying to have fun with it. Whether he likes having warts or not, he'll have to consider the results of his actions in the future. Also, I would make disease just the first step (because they are easily removed). I'd go with the shotgun wielding papa (gunslinger) or having one of the girls/guys the PC sleeps with end up being murdered and now he is a suspect wanted for questioning. Maybe you could have one of the girls be of noble birth and due to the laws, he's forced into marriage or is now a noble but the family!y he is married into....well....they're all kinds of creepy and dexter twisted with secrets and incest and cannibalism.

There are lots of avenues you can take this and quite a few hilarious options, too. Oh! Maybe one of his lovers turns out to be some magical shapechanger that now has a crush on him and can't let him go....ever (ever seen the movie Misery?). And/or is insanely jealous.

If you don't make a resting spot that is labeled, themed after or similarly named 'Hotel California' then you are doing this whole thing wrong.

@Auren, the first thing you said made sense. Then you went all into 'it's a candy store so let's give away candy to everybody'. Were you even trying to address the issue at all at that point? Giving the bard more combat power is fine. Giving it to the cleric who doesn't need it is OK, too. Giving the druids pet more survivability in and out of combat so he doesn't feel left out and tossing in good armor for the casting druid seems unnecessary and now makes both more tedious PC's to deal with in any given circumstance. Tossing the fighter who clearly is not in need of anything, an item that enhances his out of combat versatility or in-combat flexibility sounds like you're going out of your way to making the problem worse.

How about the fighter gets nothing and the druid gets nothing. This way, when you attempt to close the gap by giving the cleric and bard something, the gap actually closes instead of widens or stays the same?

And handing out more powerful gear for a group that is dominating encounters is ultimately going to lead to more overall dominated encounters. Nobody will be challenged but everyone might get to participate in the free for all monster buffet.

Speaking of which, I wonder what Terrasque tastes like?

** spoiler omitted **

The way I read it from the PRD is that only a cloak, robe, clothing outfit, padded or quilted armor get the +2 competence to fly. (Yes this will stack with one of the ioun stones because of different type of source, even though both are a competence bonus).
I hope you are correct though.

says in Hugh Jackman voice as he smooths back his sideburns

puffs on a stoggie before heading out the saloon, onto his motorcycle

^ lol.

Sorceror are far from sucky or inflexible. I wonder if the people who make these claims have ever played one or seen them in action?

I know sorcerors are a charisma class and all but they do have some intelligence. We're not all stupid. Intelligent sorcerors generally grab a page of spell knowledge or two to cover a few key spells they really like or want, and find a theme to focus on and then use the remaining 15-20+ spells known to cover all of the things any full progression arcane caster might want or need. Sure, at certain levels and even level ranges, our flexibility is notably limited, but in the long run/at the end of the day, it's not. Not by a friggin long-shot.

Want to fly, need force effects, anti projectile spells, construct and item repair and also divination, detection, summons and personal buffs but still want most of your spells to be purely necromantic and debuffs....a Sorceror can do this pretty easily. A well made Sorceror is like a well made wizard but reversed. The wizard needs levels for pure spell level and casting endurance via more spells per day. A Sorceror needs levels for spell level and spells known.

As was said above, a decent level wizard rarely runs put of all spells of a given level in a day. What you need tends to be spread put over multiple spell levels. Sorcerors are exactly the same except change 'what you need' for 'what you need to know'.

@Seranov

I originally had spiritual weapon, spiritual ally and chain of perdition on the list but in pfs all or most of those use wisdom for the attack bonus. Either way, this list is for a 5 strength, 3 foot tall gnome pyromaniac treasure hunter. Me! I've only got some of the third level spells but they seem to get the job done. I suppose I am missing Air Walk and I do get another 4th level spell at 11. I had a list of fifth level spells but decided to just wait and see how things were going. Planeshift, Scrying, Spell Immunity (Communal), Life bubble, Wall of Blindness/Deafness/Stone were some of the ones that crossed my mind but I only get to pick two.

I found the antiwife she'll life conduit and animate nope the most amusing.

@Seranov, I have a super duper awesome spell list that everybody loves. It gets me and Mischief through the day. We can pretty much handle anything an adventurer needs for a dungeon crawl or a fight. Also, pages of spell knowledge are an excellent way for us oracles to cover a few niche needs without wasting our precious slots known.

Hookers.
Everyone has a day (night) job for pfs. Your outfits always rock and everyone comes with good saves by default (especially vs disease).
Being a prostitute opens up a lot of wonderful rp oppor- ah never mind. This ship probably won't sale. :D

...wait, what'd you do with the other egg?

*says to party* You boys better keep your strength up, we've got a long journey ahead of us. Anyone up for omelettes?

Are you really sure you want to do this? Basically you are taking all the cosmic power of a 20th level wizard to probably achieve the DPR of a 15th level barbarian.

Well, considering he made a post about it and all, I'm going to go with 'yes'. If he wanted something else, like a dpr barbarian, I am sure the information he gave wouldn't be for a transmutation wizard.

So my oracle spell list is:
1.)cure light, burning hands, burning disarm, sun metal, murderous command, moment of greatness, shield of faith and Ant Haul (via a page of spell knowledge).

2.) Cure Moderate, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Defending Bone, Silence, Shield Other, and Pilfering Hand.

3.) Cure Serious, Fireball, Archon's Aura, Dispel Magic, Speak With Dead.

Funny, this list seems focused on blasting with fire, dealing with generic obstacles one might face on a dungeon crawl, and providing a variety of support options for melee buffing or debuffing or controlling. I have 5 strength and am a treasure hunting kid.

Cleric Spells I do or wish I could prepare:
1.) Cause Fear, Bane, Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Air Bubble, Carrion Compass, Endure Elements, Restore Corpse, Murderous Command.

2.) Aid, Desecrate, Sound Burst, Spiritual Weapon, Air Step, Unliving Rage, Animate Dead (Lesser), Darkness, Death Knell/Candle, Death wine, Defending Bone, Desecrate, Early Judgment, Instrument of Agony, Sentry Skull, Lesser Restoration, Silence, Sound Burst, Spiritual Weapon, Status, Weapon of Awe.

3.) Greater Stunning Barrier, Align Weapon Communal, Animate Dead, Bestow Curse, Blood Biography, Contagion, Blindness/Deafness, Deadly Juggernaut, Deeper Darkness, Invisibility Purge, Lover's Vengeance, Magic Vestment, Napstack, Prayer, Remove Disease, Locate Object, Magic Circle vs Chaos, Sands of Time, Resist Energy Communal, Speak With Dead, Water of Maddening, Vision of Hell.

Funny, looking at either list I see a lot of variety and clearly different play styles. There are single target and group buffs in each but most of the spells on each list have a very clear theme and none of them were what people expect from a cleric or oracle. I am an oracle and a pure caster. I buff, heal (in-combat specifically and intentionally) and I blast.

I do all three of my jobs pretty well but the blasting is my glaring strength.

My cleric channels mostly. His spells are all utility and debuffs. Even with his relatively low wisdom he successfully casts his spells (probably because his channel carries a long-term save debuff and probably because at low levels cause fear penalizes saves wether you fail or pass the spells DC).

I am positive that another person could whip up equally playable spell lists for another oracle and another cleric and have them each be radically different in scope and capability from the other. Some spells are great staples and are on both lists. Some awesome staple spells are only on one list or neither. However, each spell list clearly is functional, thematic and does what the character was built to do. While that cleric spell list gets super long at level 3, the option to keep open slots available and prepare what is needed when it is needed provided it is not a combat, is to his advantage.

All arguments above regarding limited utility or narrow focus of the cleric list are not carrying much weight at the moment.

@Dominus lol.

Stay away from me.

Osirion is a great choice that coincides with our undead interests. It jas all sorts of undead flavor cooked right in. Yum! But Dark Archive just sounds like the place where you look for new ideas to get you S&M on or your Hannibal Lecter. Hell, if you're hungry enough, even your Jeffrey Dahmer. So we went with that.

Mechanically speaking I would have to give up Shatter Resolve. This is for society play, so Urgathoa must specifically be worshipped for access to the feat. Also, the only advantage to not worshipping her is that it automatically frees up a feat by removing that powerful one for something that probably isn't as good. OK, so maybe not an advantage.

From what I can see with variant channeling, you pick one aspect of the deities portfolio. So you can't get multiple effects. Just the one.

Your listed options are a bit off. Shatter resolve and variant abilities work whenever they fail the save. So if you have the feat and are variant channeling, a failed save results in two debuffs.

Another catch I thought was spiffy: variant channels are set on positive heals and negative harms. Outside of that, they function at full effect. This means that when negative channeling to heal undead, you do so at full effect. The same is true for harming undead with positive energy.

The divine domain is sweet for our undead hordes and even our living allies. But the spells are terribly useless for us. It was a serious consideration, though.

Revel is under the impression that swapping strength domain for war(tactics) is best, losing enlarge person and bulls strength and ferocious strike (a solid power) and acquiring two initiative rolls each iniative and eventually swift action for any combat feat he qualifies for for 8 rounds a day, non consecutive and switchable.

If my ally took divine or tactics the synergy would be pretty good.

Lastyl, variant channeling is no good when you just want to blast. Half damage (or half the dice, not sure which it is yet) is just no good when we want to really make the enemy feel that kick to the nuts. Around 8th level we'll have the option of both hitting with two, 6d6 negative channels per turn. Since he plans to delay his channels until after mine (because I have shatter resolve) the damage of the second, third and fourth channels are all higher. Many enemies will be in terribly bad shape after eating 24d6 negative energy damage and being sickened for 6 rounds. Average damage is most of the hp of monsters from cr 7-11. The rest of the party (and undead minions) can clean up the mess.

So far, with your guys help we answered most of the questions above. We're still open to suggestions, though. I'll post what we have before tomorrows game. :)

I am open to deity suggestions but we both really like the ones we have picked. He enjoys the S&M quality that Kuthy brings, I think, and the sheer flavor of the rp and style of it. I took Urgathoa for the sheer mechanical power that is Shatter Resolve, however she has grown on me and aided in defining the character (He is thinking about using actual kisses for Death's Kiss and preparing Lovers Vengeance as well for a strong sexual/sensual aspect to support his gluttony).

If you have another deity suggestion that works well with negative channeling I am all ears, though. We did consider Nethys.

@Suichimo, Todd....hilarious. I doubt we will high five as much. But I imagine something like this:

Kuthonite drops enemy#1 in melee.
Revel: Well struck my friend! Tis one more added to our glorious ranks!
*high fives and channels to harm*

Kuthonite: Indeed, shall I recall him now or save him for later? *Casts Death Knell on someone freshly dropped from the Channel, then moves into a melee position while switching to longspear*

Revel: *Casts Cause Fear causing target to flee* Let us celebrate our impending Victory at days end. I can't let you have all the fun before the works been done.

Enemy: *fails save and withdraws but provokes due to reach*

Kuthonite: *strikes a telling blow, dropping the enemy*
Not unless it's after hours. That's usually when the work, and the fun, really begins -sly wink.

Revel: Oh you do like to mix your business with pleasure.

Kuthonite: Funny coming from you, I thought your business was pleasure.

Revel: Among other things. *High Five*

Not quite Todd status. :)

@Necromancer: I have to think on your suggestion.

Oh, right. When they rename the factions Chelliax gets a frikkin cool new title and that makes sense. The irony is that Chelliax dislikes Tieflings but the Dark Archive might care more about other interests than where Mr. Tiefling comes from? Chelliax was the third legitimate choice.

As a side note, perhaps we should both be using cruel weapons, too. Viciously cruel +1 Scythe/Spiked Chains. For more fun at least one of us could take the soul drinker trait for Chelliax, as well.

Anymore ideas?

Whew, what a title, eh?

Well, while you chew on it I thought I'd inform you all of a proposition made by a friend: Let's work together in pfs!

I know, I know...the hell was he thinking? I mean like, who does that? C'mon, really.

So anyway, I got excited, agreed and he ran through rough ideas: teamwork feats, two blaster wizards, etc. I suggested boon companion rangers but it doesn't stack because stupidness. So I asked him what he wanted to play and he told me a blaster. I pointed out that blasting had issues that a single friend doesn't really fix: initiative, people moving into melee, other stuff. But then I had an idea. I already have a negative channeling Tiefling cleric fresh from the stork! He's a controlled blaster unconcerned with the petty people moving about. Why not make two of them?

He somewhat reluctantly agreed but as the day went on, he fell in love.
No, not with me but with this kinky dude named Zon-Kuthon. The end result was a Tiefling cleric of Urgathoa and a human cleric of Zon-Kuthon who use their deities favored weapons (Scythe and Spiked Chain, respectively) and wear their faiths specific accouterments (Pallid Crystal and Mask of Cutting Flesh) and go to town slaying the living, commanding the undead, animating the living they kill and all sorts of general bad @$$ery.

As a team, the general goal will be to delay until I channel (Shatter Resolve) followed by his own channel. When low on those, we're no strangers to melee but we can still rock the Banes and Cause Fears until the mid game. Everything will flee or die (or die trying to flee or flee while dying even). All in good fun.

We'll both detect as absolutely evil but neither of us will be. He'll be LN and I'll be N.

So here is where you come in. Give me some ideas on why we are adventuring together. How did these two meet up? What faction seems most appropriate (We're thinking Arby's, Sczarni or Osirion) and what sort of relationships could they have? And why in the Abyss are we working for the society?

To help-
The Kuthonite is a dedicated necromancer and channeler so he takes Command Undead right out of the gates which makes up for my inability to do it until later and Selective Channel. He'll also be going with the Death (Undeath) Sub domain and Destruction (Torture) Sub Domain.

The Thoa-nite? Urganite? Whatever! The Tiefling will be a human at level 1, taking selective channel and Shatter Resolve. Take that suckers! His domains are Death (Undeath) and Strength (Ferocity). And he is an equal opportunity channeler and battle paddle. Part of me wishes we would both grab Tactics and just cherry pick initiative and that we were both Tiefling with the darkness SLA but that would probably just shut everyone else out of playing entirely before we destroyed everything.

The human has solid stats and such but the Tiefling has int 5 and is a little slow to learning new things, mastering skills and remembering details.

Classes are set. Don't suggest he play another type of necromancer please. Races set. Domains still flexible. Stats mostly set (int 5 is staying because we are now too stupid to know how to change it). We're thinking of having a business or some-such as a front for a place where we store the bodies of the deceased and undead we dominate for uh...religious purposes best left undescribed. ;)
And the Tiefling is debating switching the Ferocity sub domain for War (Tactics) since both powers are awesome (and not just one) and the spells are solid (but Str domain has reeeeeeealllly good spells).

So that is one of the 8 skill points the Int primary spellcaster is getting from the start.

Because when I use point buy I know that if I out my humans stat bonus in Int, it really counts as a +4. And when I roll them d6's for stats, at least one of the three actually come up 7+.

Also the ability to disable magical traps is a simple level 2 spell so you don't have to bother messing around with dispel magic.

Naturally. Because, as is the case in all hypothetical scenarios, if a wizard could do it, then they obviously are doing it. Spells per day be darned! When I want trap finding or to prove that anybody can do it or to have proof that rogues are bad because I can do everything they can, I always play a wizard and then just take my 2-3 spells per day that are available in that slot and show them how it's done.

Meanwhile, in another thread I will post about how I also have prepared and known specific spells for another specific situation because you know, I could! I'm a wizard after all. It's one of my many tricks.

Finally if your smart trap setter is scattering around alarm spells then your rogue is completely screwed as they are not traps, cannot be detected with perception and cannot be disabled with disable device.

OK, on this you are right. Anybody would be screwed except a caster who had detect magic up and then also had dispel memorized/known and the slots available to cast it.

But you missed the point. The point was that once you get past the idea that traps are purely there to deal damage and consume resources, trap finding becomes a real issue. Maybe you did not read some posts above or maybe you read them and ignores them so let me repeat what's already been said:

If a trap is designed to alert the enemies to your presence giving them time to prepare, buff and position themselves, you will have a much more difficult time. If a trap is designed to separate the party, you're in trouble. Traps can incapacitate, or render progress undone and they can cost you a lot of time or put players in some really nasty situations.

No amount of summoning monsters or mounts from a wand or unseen servants can stop the bridge from collapsing forcing you now to use fly, or go another way. In a home game there might not be another way.

What happens when the trap is a cave in and the mount triggers it? Now you have to make strength checks, take damage, are possibly pick d, maybe have a time limit and air is a concern if it is higher level. Some magic traps are also specific, or designed to catch a group. The hound archon moves 20 feat ahead, setting off the trap that causes lava to fill the tunnel you are all in. The unseen servant fails to trigger the trap. Next thesummoned lantern archon's fail to do anything. Finally the paladin or barbarian move ahead but nothing happens so everyone moves forward and then the glyph activates as it was set to trigger at a # of bodies or humanoids or whatever.

Yes, having a spell for it is nice but how many do you expect a wizard to reasonably prepare? 2, maybe 3? Possibly using extend spell and a third level slot on one. And then only at a level where they were high enough to comfortably do this. So closer to 8-9. Otherwise you're now limited in how many wizardly things you can do. The duration is useful but in the kinds of situations where you know there should be traps, there is often travel time between them so this spell will rarely last long enough to cover more than 1-2 at a time. And sure, you may only see that many traps but then the dungeon may have 8, 3-5 of which you might encounter.

Honestly, it's easier having a dedicated trapfinder and it is helpful having a spellcaster with this spell for backup. Schroedingers wizard is just playing second fiddle here, not the trapfinder.

The easy solution is to give all of your monsters a bonus to hit so they are hitting the highest AC in the group about 20% of the time with their best attack.

Gods I hope that's not the answer. My ac is no where near as high as the tanks and neither are my HP. So now, if I don't want to die, I have to make my character like the tanks and get high ac. But I'm a Sorceror and really never wanted to waste spells known on ac boosters and temporary HP buffs because I didn't plan on tanking. *sigh* can I just reroll as a fighter or barbarian or something?

If monsters only ever hit on a '20' the game isn't challenging and isn't fun for the GM.

Sure the game is challenging. Obviously, the gm is challenged to find another way to threaten the party.

But hey, not all GM's like the same things. You like hitting regular ac with regular attacks. When that isn't an option it seems like you have less fun.

I and other GM's, however, like using spells, touch attacks, traps contact/ingested/inhaled poisons, aoe's, splash damage, high ground, flanking, combat maneuvers, status effects, saving throws, terrain, surprise rounds, nighttime/camp encounters, water encounters, heat encounters, support casters/bards on the enemy teams, supportive aoe's (unhallow) in enemy zones, battlefield control spells, swarms, lots of monsters with lots of attacks (eventually they start rolling 20's), and other options as well.

Sounds to me like you missed the boat bud. How about you pull down them trousers, hop in the water and swim on over to my ship? The party is over here (decks 3 and above) and everybody is having a good time.

PS. Yeah, you will probably be the only one on deck who is pants-less besides me. What? How did I lose my pants? That's a long story that started below deck. I'll have to tell you about it sometime. Fair warning: stay above deck 3.

Oh and yes, humanoids with class levels are basically never challenging once a party gets up around level 8 or so. You are largely expected to move on to more exotic threats by that point.

Could you please explain how the humanoid party of PC's are a threat at this point in the game then? I am assuming that parties of humanoid PC's don't take class levels so that they don't fall under the 'never challenging' part of your description.

And what do humanoid PC's in your parties take instead of class levels? Based on what you have said, I get the feeling that I'm doing it all wrong!

:)

Anyway the only real thing that I hate about gunslingers is that there isn't a Grit Pool. I think that if I had more points I would have used more deeds. Also, I think there would have been more deeds created in other books if there was a grit pool.

Another thing: the dice hate me so a Gunslinger would be perfect for my low rolls. :)

Excuse me but um, did you actually fire your weapon? Because if you did, you would have regained grit every round or close to it.

Example:
Roll a 2- hit. Roll Damage-boss dies or is close to death.
2nd attack: roll a 3- hit. Roll damage- boss dies. Regain grit.

2nd round. Spend grit. Roll a 7. Hit. Roll damage grunt is dead. Regain grit.

The only thing that gives validity to you having problems with grit is that you used pregens. So maybe it took three shots to kill the boss and 2 for the grunts. That's still a grit a round.

Blaster caster seeker oracle with the flame mystery (and dip into Crossblooded). Can detect and disable traps of all kinds, fry anything that moves and support in and out of combat if for some reason things go awry. Plus we don't run out of magic.

Of course, I might be slightly biased. ^_^

***bellow may be spoilers for pfs players.***

So, I was lucky enough to receive a clockwork spy as a reward in a recent adventure of mine but I have a few questions.

Does the spy follow the rules of followers in pfs preventing me from having both my familiar and the spy? The spy is not intelligent. I can't find the book, but a quick search in the resource guide and primer for 'followers' didn't help.

The spy has to be repaired and skill checks made to restore it to working condition. After that, it follows simple commands. The catch here is that it says it cannot be repaired if it uses its self destruct ability. Does this mean that if it were destroyed in combat (say evil villains discover I was spying on them with it) that I could repair it later at the listed costs and via the necessary skill checks? Repair it with spells? The odd thing is that it can self destruct after being destroyed and that this process can be stopped but does not stop it from dying. The answer may seem obvious since I can probably by another one (the chronicle sheet doesn't say I can't) but during an adventure, repairing it might matter instead of having to wait for another session to get a completely new one.

Is it safe to assume I am not the creator and therefor could not program it not to self destruct?

So, check......mate? :D

I would argue that a high perception and initiative are as valuable (and potentially more so) than any of these feats. If Pathfinder is just a game of rocket tag, going first and nuking any threat before it can force you to make a save seems like a better strategy. Dead enemies (usually) don't force saves.

Well, which class and build can best make use of a fest varies. Two bad saves is not the end of the world. Pathfinder isn't a single player game, after all. As a caster, you can get by with abysmal saves for the same reason you can manage with a nonexistent armor class. By staying away from the fray. Aoe's that require a save or suck and which trigger before you can position yourself out of range or cast a defensive buff always suck. But single targeting effects are your friend. So is having good perception and a good initiative score. If you're offensive, you can use the first/surprise round to act first and do enough damage or cause an effective save or suck of your own that your enemies ability to do it to you is neutralized. If you're defensive as a caster you can apply a buff to cover one or both of those bad saves (hello protection from evil!).

Also, party makeup matters. Do you have a restorative divine caster on and? Are your melee characters or archers proving more of a threat than you (maybe because you failed the save)? These are potential opportunities for you, in actuality. Yes, sometimes you are out of the battle or even a few battles. But more often than not you'll be fine or just inconvenienced. Those feats are helpful, not necessary.

I have only one good save, a penalty to wisdom, multiclassed into a second class that penalizes will saves and have no definite plans to wear a cloak of resistance. Call me ballsy but I think I'll be OK.

*two months later*
I'm not OK.

But seriously, as a full caster with two bad saves I am not even thinking about those feats because there are so many other toys to play with.

Crossblooded Sorceror flavor (dragons and orcs must have really liked my grandparents or something) and my goblin fire drums, naturally. Have you heard me play or been to one of my performances yet? Would you like to go? I can give you a free ticket. Honest, it's like a once in a lifetime experience.

PS. Anything I acquaint with my magic has a tendency to stay acquainted with it for a while after (burning magic) so that really helps with mopping up any stragglers who thought they should be 'tough guys' and remain standing. Who wants to play Fire Elemental? *evil grin*

Everybody knows that flame oracles are the best (specifically me). In combat, dealing 5d4 +15 with burning hands, having nice HP and ac and also going first most of the time, burning disarm (which will deal 4d4+12 on a failed save), trap finding for being a seeker, +4 to ignore spell resistance and +4 on caster level checks for concentration make for a rather dangerous threat who can do all of this at range or in melee and can consistently disarm the bulk of the threats at that level. The trap finding and innately high charisma make us excellent leaders, and representatives and also great for dungeon crawls.

In short, we win! :D I like winning.