Marshall Fundaburk's page

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Thanks james. Is Malleus Monstrorum worth getting? It kinda seems exactly what I've been looking for, which is like a comprehensive collection of all the monsters and gods in the game. it'd probably take ages to track them down through all the books they've released over the past 30 years, right? so I should probably just get it if it's worth getting.

Malleus Monstrorum is a really interesting book; they've illustrated it not with pictures of the actual monsters, but with artifacts and the like as if the monsters were real-world, and they used those artifacts as evidence of the monster's existence. Things like cave paintings, ancient carvings, blurry photos, and the like. It's a really unusual and interesting way to illustrate a monster book.

And yes, the book's definitely worth getting. It's not 100% comprehensive, but it DOES have a lot of critters.

As for tracking down all the books released over the past 30 years... that'd get expensive really quickly. A fair amount of them are long-since out of print, and command prices in excess of several hundred bucks in some cases on e-bay...

Alright, thanks, I'll be sure to check it out then. Yeah, I assumed getting every one would be a costly and ridiculous venture, at least for me. Are there any CoC bestiaries more comprehensive than Malleus Monstrorum? Or what would I also need to get to have what Malleus is missing?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

I came across the Call Of Cthulhu role playing game and it's very interesting. I was looking at all of the books for it though, and it seems very confusing. I don't know where to start. Can you help me? What books should I get?

Start with the core rulebook—this one right here.

That one book is really all you need to get started; it's got several adventures in it. Beyond that, there's a LOT of supplements and adventures available for the game, as you might expect for a game that's been in print for over 30 years. The fact that the game's rules are relatively unchanged over the course of its six editions means that you can pick up an adventure from 1982 and still run it today using the sixth edition rules.

Once you've absorbed the contents of the core rulebook... the best place to go from there is the adventures. "Masks of Nyarlathotep" and "Beyond the Mountains of Madness" are my two favorites.

Thanks james. Is Malleus Monstrorum worth getting? It kinda seems exactly what I've been looking for, which is like a comprehensive collection of all the monsters and gods in the game. it'd probably take ages to track them down through all the books they've released over the past 30 years, right? so I should probably just get it if it's worth getting.

I came across the Call Of Cthulhu role playing game and it's very interesting. I was looking at all of the books for it though, and it seems very confusing. I don't know where to start. Can you help me? What books should I get?

hey James, could you please give me some ideas or suggestions for an adventure concerning Dagon and his realm in the Shadowsea and/or in Ishiar, if you don't mind. the demonomicon article you wrote on Dagon was amazing and lots of help. what would be good encounters, locations, plots to use in a campaign? i have some ideas but i'd love to have some input from you. i can't seem to find much on Dagon's goals. and kuo-toa are the best candidates for h.p. lovecraft's deep ones, right?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Ixinix is the lord of blackwater, dead demon lord we've been talking about that helped banish The Malgoth. You said it was a giant sentient oil slick blob thing. I thought maybe he would've been allied with Juiblex before it died, since Ixinix kinda seems like a big demonic black pudding?

Ah... well, the fact that I didn't recognize Ixinix's name should more or less tell you what I know about him; he's one of the "new names" I threw in there for future designers to explore, in other words. The big black oil blob thing is about all the thought I've put into that one.

Ixinix is probably more like a reekmurk than a black pudding then, huh?

I saw the picture of The Malgoth in the Dungeon magazine you spoke of. It was really cool. Haven't had time to read the whole adventure yet but it looks very interesting. Since that is The Malgoth's weakened incorporeal form, it's probably safe to say that it's older more powerful, physical form was similar-looking but stronger, right?

I guess you're not interested on commenting on my homebrew demons, and that's ok, just know that I'd definitely hold your criticism in much higher esteem than practically anyones, even though I didn't really give much information about them. I would if you wanted me to, though.

What are your top 10 favorite demon lords? from D&D, Pathfinder, or anywhere else.

What are your top 10 favorite abyssal layers? from D&D, Pathfinder, or anywhere else.

What is it that makes Zionin so dangerous besides the ekolids and Obox-ob? Or is it them and other hostile monsters, whatever they may be, that make it so deadly that the Fraternity Of Order bans it from exploration?

And besides Zionin, what are some other extremely dangerous layers of The Abyss?

I'm actually not sure who Ixinix is. Is he a new addition to demonkind from 4th edition or something? Never heard of the name before... or if I did, it just didn't leave any lasting impression on me.

Yamasoth is VERY different from the Malgoth. Actually... now that I think about it... do you have issues #117, #118, and #119 of Dungeon magazine? Because there's a 3 part adventure in those three issues that were written by Greg Vaughan that are pretty much ALL ABOUT the Malgoth—that's the first place this guy showed up, in fact. If you're just going by its mention in the Fiendish Codex... you'll definitely want to track down those three issues of Dungeon because there's a LOT more info about the Malgoth in there... including a picture (he's basically a mass of shadowy mist with lots of silvery eyes in it and several long tentacles with claws at the end... at least, that's the shape it takes in the climax of this three-part adventure. Honestly, the last 50 or so print issues of Dungeon have an AWFUL lot of demon lore spread throughout them; Erik and I (the editors in chief for that magazine's final third of its print incarnation) used the magazine to do a lot of exploration of demons, and put them on the covers quite a lot.

BONUS TRIVIA: The cover to Dungeon #119 was the first cover I ever ordered for any RPG product. I'm...

Ixinix is the lord of blackwater, dead demon lord we've been talking about that helped banish The Malgoth. You said it was a giant sentient oil slick blob thing. I thought maybe he would've been allied with Juiblex before it died, since Ixinix kinda seems like a big demonic black pudding?

Those Dungeon magazines sound extremely cool. I'll have to go hunt them down. And hooray for bonus trivia!! haha

Did you like my demon ideas for Obox-ob, Pale Night, and Juiblex? One day I'm gonna write up my own Demonomicon articles for them in the style that you wrote yours. = ) The 4E Demonomicons hardly compare. I'd like your criticism on those demons.

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Seriously James, three thousand thanks for answering all of my humble questions, putting up with my D&D Abyss fixations (I don't really know any better, plus I just found out Pathfinder existed a couple weeks ago and it's still sinking in), and not even getting tired of doing it. This message board really is a blessing. I can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

If Obox-ob, Pale Night, and Juiblex had Demonomicon articles written by you, what would be their new, unique servitor demons, like how Pazuzu got the anzu and Fraz-Urb'luu got the skurchur? Any cool speculations?

No speculations at all. We did create the omox demon for Pathifnder as a specific minion of Jubilex, though (note the slightly different spelling—the OGL version of that demon lord has a built-in typo.)

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

What exactly is The Malgoth? Besides apparently being one of the greatest demon lords ever known since it is the only one besides Graz'zt to ever control several layers, as far as I know. And so deadly that an alliance of several other lords had to banish it. What does this thing look like? What were its goals? Any cool speculations on this one?

Being able to control multiple layers does not make you automatically more powerful, since not all Abyssal layers are equally sized. Whatever the Malgoth was, though, it was indeed pretty tough. I have no further speculations or information about it beyond what appeared in Dungeon magazine.

You're welcome!

My own ideas for the new unique servitor demons would be some kind of demonic insect-abberation horror obyrith for Obox-ob, like a strange giant demonic silverfish. Pale Night's would be a nightmarish lamia-like demon and a gigantic terrible dungeon-dwelling black shadowy cephalapod-like obyrith. And for Juiblex, a gigantic caustic, bubbling ooze obyrith of shifting dark colors with neon splotches, long tentacles, and a big mouth with really long sharp teeth, sorta like a mobile giant clam with no shell. Whatcha think?

I just noticed the "typo" for Pathfinder's ooze lord. I actually called D&D's version Jubilex for years until I realized my mistake a few months ago = ). Do you think Juiblex and Ixinix were ever allies because of Ixinix's resemblance to a demonic black pudding?

Something tells me The Malgoth resembles Yamasoth in a way, only bigger and more horrible that leaks horrible ichor everywhere, haha. Do you agree?

So Bechard looks like a beached and rotting demonic whale, am I right?

Im case you were wondering why I'm so into appearances, I'm an artist and lately I've been drawing demons, so that's the reason behind all these dumb questions.

Seriously James, three thousand thanks for answering all of my humble questions, putting up with my D&D Abyss fixations (I don't really know any better, plus I just found out Pathfinder existed a couple weeks ago and it's still sinking in), and not even getting tired of doing it. This message board really is a blessing. I can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it.

If Obox-ob, Pale Night, and Juiblex had Demonomicon articles written by you, what would be their new, unique servitor demons, like how Pazuzu got the anzu and Fraz-Urb'luu got the skurchur? Any cool speculations?

What exactly is The Malgoth? Besides apparently being one of the greatest demon lords ever known since it is the only one besides Graz'zt to ever control several layers, as far as I know. And so deadly that an alliance of several other lords had to banish it. What does this thing look like? What were its goals? Any cool speculations on this one?

How big is the difference between Pathfinder's Lamashtu and Abraxas lords from D&D's versions, besides the obvious differences? Lamashtu lives in Pazuzu's realm of Torremor in the Onstrakker's Nest and gives birth to flying demons and Abraxas the Unfathomable resides on Layer 17, Death's Reward with his mind on magic words, arcane secrets, and talismans. Are their appearances both like their Pathfinder counterparts? Where would you have taken D&D's versions if you had done so? They're probably so different from each other they could be separate demon lords if put together in one universal D&D + Pathfinder Abyss, right?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Would you like to share any information on demons and demon lords that you've created but haven't gotten a chance to include in any books or magazines and things like that? I read on a message board that a lot of the loumara and obyrith demons and other things you created got cut from FC1, like the grimorak and omothobokola demons. Could you describe your ideas for these and others and demon lords too if you can?

While I'm certainly still interested in the official D&D demons, I don't really want to talk in public about them, unfortunately.

I can say that those demons that were cut from FC1 did end up in an online web supplement though; but I'm not really sure these days where that supplement might be, or even if WotC still has it available online.

The web enchancement for FC1 had an obyrith called a laghathti that was really cool, but that's all. I can understand not wanting to publically discuss them, though. I just hope that all your demonic creations will see the light of day eventually, since they're all so awesome. = ) If there's any web supplement that I don't know about with those demons I'd sure love read it though!

What does the obyrith lord Ubothar look like? I read The Thunder Below and there were many possible descriptions for it. Other than being very big and purple, did you have any ideas on his real appearance? Any other info on him as well you could share?

Do you ever get tired of me asking you all these dumb questions about The Abyss? = )

Would you like to share any information on demons and demon lords that you've created but haven't gotten a chance to include in any books or magazines and things like that? I read on a message board that a lot of the loumara and obyrith demons and other things you created got cut from FC1, like the grimorak and omothobokola demons. Could you describe your ideas for these and others and demon lords too if you can?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Since the 600th layer of The Abyss was apparently already a gigantic labyrinth before Baphomet got there, was it built by Pale Night and her minions or created by The Abyss itself?

It's unlikely Pale Night built it—I suspect it was there for a long time.

Mysterious... = )

Who are the evil elemental princes you mentioned when we were discussing phaerimms in The Abyss? Do you mean Yan-C-Bin, etc.?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

I see. Thanks for all your help, James. I really appreciate it. = ) Going back to Ixinix, lord of blackwater. It seemed to me as possibly the lord of ixitxachitl before Demogorgon took that over when it died after helping to destroy The Malgoth. But that's just my theory. Do you have any ideas on what Ixinix was like?

Not many... I never got around to doing much more with Ixinix. My gut feeling was that he was some sort of giant sentient oil slick type blob thing, that the "blackwater" was literal, and he had no set form.

Awesome! Kind of like a black pudding, maybe?

Since the 600th layer of The Abyss was apparently already a gigantic labyrinth before Baphomet got there, was it built by Pale Night and her minions or created by The Abyss itself?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Were Rovagug's minions/spawn originally created for Obox-ob and then continued in Pathfinder as Rovagug's, or did you create them for Rovagug specifically?

They were created for Pathfinder's version of Rovagug. Neither Rovagug nor Obox-ob had specific links to the Tarrasque (or other giant monsters in that vein) in my homebrew.

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Are all the obyrith lord-controlled layers in The Abyss as inherently dangerous and hostile as Zionin? Are they more dangerous than tanar'ri controlled layers since you said if the obyriths ruled the entire Abyss it would be much more deadly than it is currently?

Nope; while every layer of the Abyss is dangerous, some are less so and some are more so. The reason I think the Abyss would be more deadly if the obyriths/qlippoth ruled it is more or less because those guys don't partially rely upon human souls in any way. Humans are less than useless to them, unlike demons.

But it's like saying a 30 megaton nuke is more dangerous than a 29 megaton one, to a certain extent.

I see. Thanks for all your help, James. I really appreciate it. = ) Going back to Ixinix, lord of blackwater. It seemed to me as possibly the lord of ixitxachitl before Demogorgon took that over when it died after helping to destroy The Malgoth. But that's just my theory. Do you have any ideas on what Ixinix was like?

Marshall,

You keep removing the "<QUOTE=James Jacobs>" tags when you reply, and I have to keep adding them back. They're there so you can tell who's saying what.

Haha oops, my bad. I didn't even notice.

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Ahh, tis a shame indeed. I was so curious. But it's only fair, as you said. And yeah, the last four Savage Tide articles were by far the coolest of them all.

I'd never heard of Rovagug before. I just looked him up and it's really really cool! Would the information about his minions and spawn be a good starting point to create Obox-ob obyrith minions of my own for a homebrew adventure on Zionin? Of course I'd change them up a bit.

And even though I already have plenty of my own ideas so far, do you have any advice on creating homebrew obyrith/qlippoth demons/demon lords that would be as awesome as the ones you have made?

Rovagug's been VERY detailed over the course of the last few years—his cult played a key rule in the Legacy of Fire adventure path for one thing. He's also the bug monster on the cover of "Gods and Magic." He's one of the main deities of the Pathfinder campaign setting, after all.

As for my take on qlippoth and demons and the like... "Lords of Chaos" is the best place to go. There's LOTS of new demons and stuff going on in that book.

Were Rovagug's minions/spawn originally created for Obox-ob and then continued in Pathfinder as Rovagug's, or did you create them for Rovagug specifically?

Haha, I'm reading Lords Of Chaos right now, actuall! = ) Coincidence! I love this book! Good job, James!

Are all the obyrith lord-controlled layers in The Abyss as inherently dangerous and hostile as Zionin? Are they more dangerous than tanar'ri controlled layers since you said if the obyriths ruled the entire Abyss it would be much more deadly than it is currently?

Not really.

Obox-ob was the main bad-guy god in my homebrew world. Had I not "sold" him to Wiards of the Coast, he would be in a similar role in Golarion. Instead, I "promoted" one of my other homebrew gods, Rovagug, to fill the role that Obox-ob did in my homebrew.

Obox-ob now belongs 100% to Wizards of the Coast—which is only fair, since I got the name from the 1st edition Monster Manual 2 in the first place.

But since he belongs to WotC, I'm not really comfortable in saying much more about him, really. You might want to check out the last few issues of Dungeon—Obox-ob plays a role there, but as for new stuff... sorry, but nope.

Ahh, tis a shame indeed. I was so curious. But it's only fair, as you said. And yeah, the last four Savage Tide articles were by far the coolest of them all.

I'd never heard of Rovagug before. I just looked him up and it's really really cool! Would the information about his minions and spawn be a good starting point to create Obox-ob obyrith minions of my own for a homebrew adventure on Zionin? Of course I'd change them up a bit.

And even though I already have plenty of my own ideas so far, do you have any advice on creating homebrew obyrith/qlippoth demons/demon lords that would be as awesome as the ones you have made?

Depends on the nature of the event; the last Dungeon magazine, which has the final Savage Tide adventure, does a fair bit about what happens in an Abyss-shaking event like that. I suspect Obox-ob would be in the top contenders for the prince role, but it wouldn't be automatic.

Very true. The Savage Tide was extremely kick ass, by the way. I loved it so much.

Is there anything you could add about Obox-ob? What is his layer like? What are his minions and servitor demons besides ekolids? I read a little about it in the lost entries for FC1 but that was just like a teaser, you know. Any more information relating to or about Obox-ob you could share?

As for how more dangerous the Abyss would get... that's kind of one of those things that the human mind can't really envision, like how once numbers get super large, no one really can understand the scope of them.

Very interesting indeed! And I absolutely agree with you. Once one tries to define and understand The Abyss too much it starts to lose its flavor and what makes it great.

Do you think if such a mind-blowing thing were to happen, Obox-ob would reclaim his throne and become prince of demons once again? Or would it be some other obyrith this time around?

I'd really recommend checking out Pathfinder #46, honestly; that's got a whole article about the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods, including who and what worships them and all that. On Golarion, humanoids worship the Great Old Ones a lot to be honest; there are monsters that serve and worship them as well, like neothelids or skum or cloakers (just off the top of my head), but they're probably the most effective when their cults are made up of people.

If the obyriths/qlippoth ruled the Abyss again... it'd be a much more violent and hostile place to pretty much everything. Which is kind of a frightening thought... it's like fire that's so hot it can burn up fire.

That sounds great! I'm really gonna have to check that out.

Haha but I kind of like the thought of them coming back to power! Are the obyriths/qlippoths different? Like could I use qlippoths as obyriths in a campaign and not miss anything? But what would be different about The Abyss besides being 10x more dangerous and deadly? I can't see how it could possibly get more dangerous than it is. The layers would become uninhabitable. Any specific differences other than that that stand out in your mind? I'm sure Obox-ob would reclaim his throne, would he not? Or would it go to some other obyrith?

Thanks, I'm a big fan of Lovecraft.

what kinds of monsters in existence in D&D and Pathfinder besides the aboleths, would worship these Lovecraftian Great Old Ones/Elder Evils. I guess that's phrased more properly than the last question. Any specific abberations that you could think of that would be chanting the blasphemous names of Elder Evils aside from the aboleths? That's why I keep coming back to phaerimm. They seem very Lovecraftian in a way to me. As do the mind flayers, but they already have their own god.

And also, any thoughts on what The Abyss would be like if the obyriths ruled it again?

What other monsters would you think would revere the Elder Evils that the aboleths do? Phaerimms? There has to be other existing monsters that do considering how many monsters there are in D&D and Pathfinder, right?

And while I've always been a fan of the phaerimm, they never really struck me as being Abyss-themed. Probably because they're neutral evil—they mesh better with the evil elemental princes or daemons as a result, but honestly, I think they work best, like aboleths and mind flayers, as a race that doesn't really have much going on in the worshiping gods department at all.

Ahh, I see. Makes sense. That reminded me of Lords Of Madness, which the aboleth chapter you wrote was another spectacular read. The phaerimm also strike me as "worshippers" of the Elder Evils that the aboleth sorta revere in that chapter. And yeah, no problem = ). seriously, I'm really gonna miss your writings on The Abyss and demons. the new demonomicons hardly compare.

But the beholders... They are born in The Abyss from The Great Mother, but their alignment is lawful evil usually. How does that work? or is it just another chaotic wonder from The Abyss?

And this might be a foolish question, but undead monsters can't be fiendish can they?

Those are mostly D&D versions of the Abyss, and as such I can only really answer with authority for them as regards 3.5 and earlier editions. As such, the following answers don't necessarilly apply to the Pathfinder version of the Abyss (which doesn't have entities like Pale Night or obyriths at all, and in which Dagon and Baphomet have slightly different roles).

The 600th layer was indeed always a crazy labyrinth; that's part of what drew Baphomet to it in the first place.

As for exactly where those old cities in Dagon's realm came from, I kind of left that vague on purpose to heighten the mystery. Certainly some come from uzollrus, but not all of them...

I really enjoy reading any answer you have. 3/3.5 is what I'm most familiar with anyway. I just discovered Pathfinder's Abyss about a month ago, and it's wonderful, but I don't know much about it yet. And you already stated you don't like the 4th edition, so I shant ask you anything about it haha. I'm just glad to discuss The Abyss and what is in it with you because what you've written about it (like the Demonomicon articles and FC1) are basically my favorite things. I really enjoy reading your work. Much thanks for those and these answers! Dagon's article was very mysterious indeed and I loved that aspect of it. Was probably the best in my opinion, along with Demogorgon's and Zuggtmoy's. I dunno, they're all sooo good = )

Question time! Did Sertrous have a different form than the snakelike-looking monster it is now before he was cast out of The Abyss by the Queen Of Chaos?

The phaerimm from forgotten realms are cool, sort of obyrith-like to me, how they appear as floating sea anemones that live underground. Perhaps they might worship a demon lord somewhere in the depths of The Abyss? always got room for one more, right?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Some layers of The Abyss have lots of demonic versions of creatures you could find on Earth, or a Material Plane rather, like manta rays apes, dinosaurs (at one point), sharks, etc. Along with other more monstrous demonic creatures from the material plane like minotaurs, hydras, plant monsters, dragons, etc. Does this mean that The Abyss has its own earth-like natural ecosystems unique to each layer that could support one only everything is fiendish? Or does The Abyss spawn these creatures independently just as it spawns demons?

Also, does a ghargatula seem more like a demon than a devil to you? It does to me. I think it looks to dumb, ferocious, and primeval to be lawful evil. What do you think, James?

The denizens of the Abyss come about in all sorts of ways. Some are created by it. Some are created by demons. Some are created by chance. Some are created by crazed spellcasters. Some evolve. Whatever's best for the story at hand, really, is what works.

As for ghargatulas... I think there's plenty of room for big ugly LE devils and there's plenty of room for sexy sophisticated CE demons. Alignments do not dictate monster shapes at all.

Brillant answers. So many options are in The Abyss it could almost drive one insane. And that's the point = ).

Was Layer 600 always an infinite labyrinth, even when it was controlled by Pale Night before Baphomet discovered it? Or did Baphomet build it around Pale Night's tower area after he got there?

And in the awesome Dagon Demonomicon, some of the ancient sunken cities built by obyriths grown foul and stupid over the ages were built by the uzollru demons, right? The article says they possibly controlled the layer at one point (maybe their dead lord was killed by Dagon and now exists as one of the necroclasms or one of the pearls he sings to in his castle) and were far more intelligent than they are now. Evidence points to how they delight in killing intelligent prey the most. Is this far from the truth?

Some layers of The Abyss have lots of demonic versions of creatures you could find on Earth, or a Material Plane rather, like manta rays apes, dinosaurs (at one point), sharks, etc. Along with other more monstrous demonic creatures from the material plane like minotaurs, hydras, plant monsters, dragons, etc. Does this mean that The Abyss has its own earth-like natural ecosystems unique to each layer that could support one only everything is fiendish? Or does The Abyss spawn these creatures independently just as it spawns demons?

Also, does a ghargatula seem more like a demon than a devil to you? It does to me. I think it looks to dumb, ferocious, and primeval to be lawful evil. What do you think, James?

Does a ghargatula seem more like a demon than a devil to you? It does to me. I think it looks to dumb, ferocious, and primeval to be lawful evil. What do you think, James?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Is it likely that every type of demon from armanite to zovvut (even though they apparently were created by a long-dead lord) has a demon lord patron, like Rhyxali for shadow demons and Ilsidahur for bar-lguaras?

The Abyss is a big place, and I'm sure that every demon race type from quasit to balor has a "most powerful member of the race." In some cases, that most powerful member is a demon lord or demon prince. In others, though, they're not; they're just more powerful versions of their individual race. I would think that most demon races do NOT have a demon lord/prince at the top of their totem pole at any one time. We would have heard about them if they did.

Very helpful. Ixinix, lord of blackwater, one of the demon lords who was part of the alliance to destroy The Malgoth, seems to me like it possibly once was a lord of the demonic ixitxachitl before it died. Any truth to this suspicion?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Hey James, is the picture on the cover of the 4E Demonomicon a vrock or some other type of birdlike demon?

That'd be logical, I suppose, but I don't know. I wasn't involved at all with that book's creation.

Thanks. Even though I knew you weren't involved, I still asked because of your supreme demonic intellect = ). Here's another 4E Demonomicon art question for ya: on page 4 there's a big picture of Dagon, Pazuzu, and Obox-ob with (I'm assuming) 2 other demon lords, one on the far left and the other on the far right. The one on the left looks kinda like the tail of a myrmyxicus. The one on the right is a strange demonic lady wrapped in these tendril things. Any ideas on who or what they might be?

Nope, no idea.

And 4th edition demons is not a topic I care to continue to talk about.

Next question, please! :-P

I'm sorry James. I didn't know. 3rd edition is totally so much better anyway. Is it likely that every type of demon from armanite to zovvut (even though they apparently were created by a long-dead lord) has a demon lord patron, like Rhyxali for shadow demons and Ilsidahur for bar-lguaras?

Marshall Fundaburk wrote:

Hey James, is the picture on the cover of the 4E Demonomicon a vrock or some other type of birdlike demon?

That'd be logical, I suppose, but I don't know. I wasn't involved at all with that book's creation.

Thanks. Even though I knew you weren't involved, I still asked because of your supreme demonic intellect = ). Here's another 4E Demonomicon art question for ya: on page 4 there's a big picture of Dagon, Pazuzu, and Obox-ob with (I'm assuming) 2 other demon lords, one on the far left and the other on the far right. The one on the left looks kinda like the tail of a myrmyxicus. The one on the right is a strange demonic lady wrapped in these tendril things. Any ideas on who or what they might be?

Hey James, is the picture on the cover of the 4E Demonomicon a vrock or some other type of birdlike demon?