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For a stat spread I could go...

STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 09

Thats just with the base 20 points, then my half orc +2 could go either str or wis, my lvl4 stat +1 can be used push my str to 15 for the thunder and fang if I want to start with 18 wis.

So, I finally read Thunder and Fang. Thanks for an education. What's your combat plan for the first 6 levels where you don't have that feat?

Well probably just use the Earthbreaker on it's own two handed, ofc support that with spells to augment strength and general combat effectiveness.

Earthbreakers can be duel weilded with that feat btw, kind of opens intresting builds, but I'm keeping to just the classic eb+klar.

Another thing to take into account, is your build is pretty MAD.

STR 13+2 (damage, hit, 15 req. Thunder and fang)
DEX 15 (15 req. TWF, AC)
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 16 (caster stat)
CHA 10
For a 20 point buy.

With that you won't have spent a point for CON for those hitpoints you'll want as a melee. You'll probably have to dump INT and CHA if you want to survive some Hits to increase CON, or accept the fact you won't cast save-spells and focus only on to-hit and buffs spells, so your save DC won't matter (still need WIS 19 to be able to cast 9th level spells eventually).

Ranger Combat Style (Ex)

Benefit: The slayer selects a ranger combat style (such as archery or two-weapon combat) and gains a combat feat from the first feat list of that style. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. At 6th level, he may select this talent again and add the 6th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list. At 10th level, he may select this talent again and add the 10th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list.

Dexterity is not required, the requirements are bypassed by the ranger talants from slayer. So can stack str/con a little more. Agree stat balance is probably the hardest part i have to figure out.

And as you see in my above post I want the spirit/nature themes and a nice build using the iconic Shoanti weapons.

But tbh as far as I found this hybrid mix offered me the best mix of that, hyper optimal? no ofc not but that's why I threw it out here as I did make a feat error and honestly critiques make me think harder on my choices. Input is appreciated.

But using my defensive Dino as a meele mate and offering him as a defensive bulwark in our front lines while I can sneak about infiltrate and support, or hold the front lines is nice. My animal companion should pack a pretty good punch too.

Well back to waiting for my late train as per norm in the UK.

May I ask why you want to go for nature fang druid? Full-Caster? Slayer-Talents/Sneak Attack? Companion? Combination of all? As already mentioned the level depended Shift from martial to full-caster might be troublesome so another class might work better mechanicwise. But if you don't mind, have fun, who am I to judge ^^

Another thing i would like to mention isn't as much of a "rules problem", rather than a "lore problem". How much it matters depends entirely on your table and how strict you are with the lore restricting your raw options.

As you want to go for the shoanti tattoo trait which gives you the proficiencies needed for your build, the tattoo is something given by a shoanti shaman after a rite of passage.
The trait needs you to not only be human (or count as one), but more specific a shoanti.
Meaning your character would be (or have been) part of a tribe and spend most their life so far as or with shoanti.

Either you are a half-orc born into a shoanti tribe (which would mean a pretty rough childhood and miracle that you survived) or a shoanti tribe would have adopted you into their tribe as a token of honor. Lorewise a shoanti tribe would never adopt a orc, half-orc or chelaxian so the latter is very unlikely.

As I already said, this is mostly lore and many tables don't care about it that much but better check in with your DM to be sure.

Yes well lore wise I won't go too indepth here, to broadly give a back story.

Farther is Shoanti warrior, and was captured in skirmishes with orcs many years ago and enslaved by the orcs of the Hold of Belkzen. So classic how i met your mother story ensues and eventually my character and his parents eventually fled south, and were reluctantly excepted back into the tribe. My clan Skoan-Quah (The Skull Clan) are a more, if not entirely tolerant sort(you get a bit more lore on these guys in The Crimson Throne adventure path) but characters like the Shaman Thousand Bones are excepting of outsiders. But even so my parents live to the southern edge of the tribes territories keeping to themselves. My character not feeling they quite fit decides to start traveling Varisia seeking his purpose and destiny, all the while listening to the wisdom of the spirits for what destiny may hold for him.

I do love torturing GMs with pages of lore but I have grown wiser over years and give them cliff notes.

One possible issue I can see is that you are going into an AP where there are long stretches with no options to buy magic items, and from about halfway through you are in Tian (I trust this is not a massive spoiler) which has its own weapons and armour types. You’re investing heavily in two culturally specific weapons that aren’t going to be replaceable with better versions later on.

I believe we will have crafting feats in the group, but also I think some of those travelling with us can craft and count as a large town(Or some size I'm uncertain)for trading purposes, I'm not absolutely certain but will check that again with the GM, but in any case I will make sure I have a master crafted version of both my weapons before leaving Varisia.

"A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes. A metal klar counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes."

Obviously I'll be using a wooden one as a druid, but one would assume if it counts as one you'd simply extrapolate that the light shield mechanics would otherwise be available to you?

Tbh pleased that you guys flagged this as a potential issue, thanks again. Best to codifie the whole character mechanically before it hits the table, tbh my old man table still find small errors we've been making for years.

Run that interpretation by your GM before building around it. You do not have full use of your hand, you cannot attack with weapons held in it, so your GM may rule that you cannot cast with it either.

My group allowed it in previous runs for a cleric, and i think as long as the shield and the weapon aren't used/effective in the round you cast a spell then it's fine, although as a free action it probably means the shield will be active after the spell as you can return the weapon to your primary hand.

Didn't even realise this was a controversial rule interpretation?

WHAT ABOUT USING GOLIATH DRUID FOR THE ARCHETYPE?

Get big, go smash

Tempting as that might be, I'm happy with my Shoanti themed character, getting an effective twf feat build kinda needs the Nature's fang archetype.

But tbh goliath druid has peaked my interest before, and hey it might be my next druid build who knows? , as my last druid a while back was a saurian shaman even though that campaign died early. I do quite like them as a class, but I have gotta have a concept, even though my group isn't the biggest rp crew I like to have a good character story and theme tied to the setting and from there i then look at mechanically the best way to make that character effective.

I was fretting about my current druid being effective, but tbh as Melkiador alluded to above, if the build doesn't deliver I'm still a full caster class. It's much worse for a martial class if a build doesn't deliver. But I think overall this build should work out

Nature fang is a good archetype but it still has the usual cleric issue: Where you start off being like a martial, but you have the slow slide into being a full caster. As your spells per day build up you find that you aren’t spending nearly as much time using your old martial abilities you invested so much in, because spells are so effective.

I’m not saying to not do it, but if you haven’t experienced this before it can be a little jarring when you notice it happening. Typically happens around level 5 or 7

I can appreciate that concern, but i do like a challenge. I will try and invest in a lesser quicken meta magic rod or better as gold allows, to allow a little more utilisation of my martial side while enjoying the full caster fun. Possessed hand's swift action item retrieval does push me towards it as my first feat for this reason, obviously with rods, pots, and scrolls in mind.

Why are you playing a druid when you are building a fighter?

You will not be casting in combat because both of your hands are full. If you are fine with your spells being limited medium to long term buffs then this could work.

Oh and as to the why, it's the spells! , example: Fey form(let's you still carry your weapons) and other powerful buffing spells, plus other general full caster highjinks. I am making a fairly toolbox character, which is a fun challenge in that I have to find a good balance in support, attack and defence. Plus I've been informed that Jade Regent is a pretty heavy wilderness campaign, a druid fits that quite nicely(i hope).

Level 1 feat ideas: toughness, combat casting, spirit's gift, scribe scroll.

Still sad they nerf'd spirit's guide so hard, but even so it could be a good call, scribe scroll also wouldn't be at all bad... but combat casting is funny because I was looking at Possessed Hand(and maybe if I can makes space later Hand's autonomy) which would actually screw with my concentration checks.

But the extra +1 to hit bonuses from possessed hand feel helpful(although they won't kick in until i get thunder and fang at lvl7)and the hand's autonomy reducing all twf mods by -2, to a minimum of -1 feels pretty solid. Love all the spirit stuff, would get Shoanti totems too(totems spirit feats/chain) but alas if only I had infinite feats, I do love the themes all blending nicely with the rules.

Well, I've narrowed it down to spirit guide, possessed hand, scribe scroll, blind fighting or improved initiative. Will sleep on it then with a little rejigging of my feat order see how it looks.

That's a fair point, but the Klar counts as a light shield. I won't get it's armour bonuses the round I do cast any spells ofc.

Rules read:
With a light shield you can hold the weapon in your shield hand as a free action so you have a free hand to cast.

"You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it."

P.152 of the core rulebook.

I’m not sure how you got the proficiency in earth breaker and klar since those are martial weapons and you are a druid. A druid also doesn’t have the +1 BAB to take weapon focus at level 1.

You might consider taking a 1st level dip in something like ranger to make that work out better for you.

Shoanti Tattoo

Is the how i get the weapon proficiency, but yes... had cut Razortusk(half orc feat) and just bumped up a few feats... level 1 feat... hmm will rethink. Not sure what to take at level one, maybe more traits? BAB restriction is a pain for power attack too.

Okay sharing is caring and I'm here looking for a bit of advice and broad opinions on my poor life choices
A few core things that I'm rather attached to are,

Class: Druid
Archetype: Nature's Fang
Race: Half Orc
Weapons: Earthbreaker and Klar for, Thunder and Fang.
Campaign: Jade Regent

Key link is half Orc taking human racial traits, in this case Shoanti tattoos. Which unless I've gravely misunderstood you are allowed to as half elves or half orcs.

Alternative racial options would be Sacred Tattoos and Shaman enhancement(assuming I have a pet).

Traits/flaw would be,Shoanti tattoos, fates favoured and wisdom in flesh(stealth). The flaw Mark of slavery.

Feats: 1)weapon focus:Earth breaker, 3)Power attack, 5)weapon focus:klar 7)Thunder and Fang, 9) Outlander 11) improved initiative? Beyond here I'm a little unsure...

Slayer talants: 4) trap finding(not sure if we have a rogue so maybe? But 4th level us a fair way in), 6) Ranger style: twf, 8) ranger style: itwf, 10) ranger style: gtwf or Rogue talant: fast stealth, 12) Evasion, 14) Opportunist

Favoured class bonus could be the Orc one for animal companion +1 damage every 2 levels.

Was considering an Ankylosaurus animal companion, at 3 int i could grab outflank and build for combat patrol. But it's tight on the feats. 1)dodge, 2) Combat reflexes, 5) Mobility, 8) Combat Patrol, 10) outflank, 13) power attack, intercept blow or ability focus?

Items i believe might help would be bloodstained gloves, lenses of the predator, shifting jerkin, pelt of the beast, ring of natural attunement (kami).

Right so... I often like being a jack of all trades but am I over stretching here? Will to hit cope with all these extra offhand atracks even with slayer bonus'? Is this viable? Also Stat spread i guess strength then wisdom priority (feel free to add your preference, will be a 20 point buy)? Most importantly, HAVE I SCREWED ANY OF THIS UP? I'm not infallible and hate making mistakes.

P.s I'm aware I could go crocodile domain instead of the pet but the flanking gaurd Dino does warm my heart. I have looked at a ranged build with worshiping Erastil and getting the feat, Erastil's Blessing, but honestly not a big fan of archer builds.

Maybe you could do something with conductive weapon and the ranged touch attack of the gun?

I like it, been mulling over Warpriest vs cleric but in both cases conductive weapon might be a cool idea, but not sure it quite fits the cleric as my domains ain't really offering a huge damage boost from Besmara but food for thought.

Thanks but still looking for that perfect spice needed to bake the proverbial character cake.

VMC Gunslinger might be a little slower than you want.

Two levels of Holy Gun Paladin, which would require some explanation, but doable. Or two levels of Trophy Hunter Ranger. Why two levels instead of just one level of Gunslinger? Because it's more interesting this way.

Had spotted Holy gun and wasn't super excited but had missed Trophy hunter which is a cool archetype i could see making a fun non-divin pirate/freebooter of some sort.

But not sure the dips benefits me massively in this build as paladin does get a starting gun but still limited grit and Trophy Hunter gets all starting deeds but quick clear is the only must tbh and still minimum grit. Neither feed extra feats into offset hardest part of this or offer quick access to later deeds. Surprised no 3rd party have had a go at the pirate cleric at all, not that i rarely look to 3rd party but now we're into 2nd edition's era I may dabble.

Still debating feat chains into Gun Twirling and Wave Strike... Might eat my feats up but if damage can't really be boosted early stealing enermies dexterity and demoralising them to help my party (aka crew). lvl15+ feats can go into Impressive Grit feats if i still want those abilities and i will get good uses with a high cleric wisdom.

Well cheers anyhow, feared there wasn't much i was missing, just seems firearms were a bit neglected in 1st edition any other ideas feel free to add.

Right simply put i want guns! Now i know most anything but gunslinger(and even there damage scales weakly) is rather uninspiring with them but is there a trick to pure cleric of ol' Bessy with guns? I can have a rapier thanks to Besmara and guns as detailed below but how to maximise them without loosing too much from a nice full caster.

Best incharacter and mechanically minded domains i can see are Gunpowder Inquisition and war(duels subdomain). Then pick up the Amature Gunslinger feat. Go dex build with maybe light armour rather than medium weapon finess maybe for rapier if possible?

The issue is there are no clean ways to get more grit skills bar the Impressive grit feat and extra grit feat but Impressive has an 11bab requirement which is really late game for pure cleric. And boosting damage with feats is somewhat limited otherwise, war domain(duels) does offer some support with combat feats as required and nice domain spells. Might carry a few daggers to throw as well but not going to go into feats for them(startoss is a cool chain but too feat demanding) and again war(duels) can let me buff them a little with feats on demand)

A small positive is abundant ammunition is a cleric level one spell offsetting guns and there ammo costs. Also positive is the feat gun twirling and war(duels) bonuses to feint but not sure of how good feint is as never really tried a build for that? Especially on a cleric???

So any input or advice would be greatly appreciated cheers.

Been a little sad about the dusk of 1st edition but my group still has five or six adventure paths to go through plus all the 3rd party content.

And well i still need to hunt down a few books i want physically, alas things like goblins of golarian will probably always allude me also skulls and shackles since both have sky rocketed in second hand prices.

Maybe in a few years we will migrate to 2nd edition, but till then I'll haunt these forums and other pathfinder boards when i can't figure a character build or such.

Ok so splinter and turtles... there is only one effective way but it's cheese and only lvl15+

Noble scion prestige cheese is possible... but dear lord it's filthy.

At 15th level you can have 5(any class) and 10 noble scion and then a same level cohort... that cohort can do the same and his cohort and his cohort... and so on.

Upside you can build from the ground up and heck even use the race building rules to make a turtles specie and first five levels can be ninja, but honestly it's game breaking and hard work. Could have splinter/shredder from lvl7 when you get the greater leadership and then get the 4 turtles at 15th.

But honestly just make a party of 5 heroes and role play them with an agreeable games master, the effort to twist the rules won't ever allow you eventually to get 5 good characterful ninjas otherwise.

I made a summoning healer for Ironfang a while back(there is a short discussion on the forums for it), lvl 1-5 cleric, 6-15 Stargazer(prestige).

Sadly good characters are pretty limited on single action summoning but it can work for CG if i recall correctly, dig through summoning guides on this it's a little painful to figure out. I'm a bit short on time or I'd elaborate more, may pop back later and help. Good luck.

Alas I think your hd cap is your animal companion's hd cap, now if I'm wrong consider the half orc beast rider feat for another 2 hd of animal companions. But I'm pretty sure both boon and beast rider are for helping multi classing.

But yes in most cases animal companions do grow weaker at later levels and that's before you divide there hd as you plan to, I've never felt it's really worth it.

There are better leadership archetypes or prestige classes if you want extra characters but honestly it's a lot of work for games masters to balance games in these cases and for you in paper work, oh and keep in mind it can drag games out making it more a war game than a roleplay game and in this diminish other players involvement in the game.

I know it's a bit off the barbarian theme but a ranger in mithril full plate with a 1 level dip in warrior(around whenever you can afford the armour for free h.armor prof and other goodies)and maybe some ranger archetypes is my preference for strength twf.

Preferred Dwarf for armored rules, dwarvern waraxes(and lace on offhand one)and good stat mix. Or maybe half orc as you can get boon companion as well as beast rider(extra choices too) to offset animal companion levels being behind entirely(due to warrior dip) and otherwise a good flexible race.

But yeah barbarians are mechanically simple beasts, a single big two hander is a easier build. But chase your dreams it's not all about the numbers.

P.s forgot to mention dorn dugar(was concidering for an entirely different character), can be duel wielded if you want reach but that does cost extra feats heck dwarf barbarian with two of these could be fun too but again feat heavy!

I really like bard cohorts. Combine the stonesinger and dwarven lorekeeper archetypes: all class features key off of wisdom, you penalize enemy AC while performing, and your basic combat performance shares combat feats with your allies.

Oh i agree bards do seem one of the best choices for a cohort, but in this case the cohort character needs martial weapon proficiency as requirement of cavalier esquire archetype and as far as i can tell those bard archetypes don't add it.

The level=BAB is only for the bonus feats, which don't line up with a +4 BAB req. feat - you get them at 3rd and 8th. You could get it at 7th anyway of course.

TWF is not a great feat for a 3/4 BAB class with little in the way of accuracy boosts, and a damage boost which relies on you having a hand free to cast a spell via spell combat. It's basically a feat tax for you to use the dorn-dergar. I'd just use the waraxe, and maybe get lunge with the 8th level bonus feat.

Yeah that's pretty logical and lunge makes good sense, cheers.

Your best choice is indeed a gish class. See if Oracle that takes Metal/Battle and Skill at Arms is legal.

As far as it goes I'd assume so since you'd get 'skill at arms' at 1st level. Martial weapon proficiency is the cavalier's requirement and arytpes are allowed so since arytpes are applied after choosing the class and can change weapon proficiency you'd assume a core class mechanic from oracle would also be allowed as long as the finished character fulfils the base requirements.

But anyhow curse you for tempting me with Oracle would be a full caster and that's always nice and saves me a heavy armour feat with 'skill at arms'.

Main question is, is it the battle oracle or the spiritualist phantom blade who is going to be more fun or balanced and make the best use of the shared combat feats?

I'm leaning still towards the phantom blade due to the dwarf nature of my charisma making an Oracle a rather expensive build (especial with a npc heroic 15 point buy). Feel free to put forward the case for a viable dwarf Oracle or anything else besides but thanks for the input heck if i ever play a non dwarf esquire and aid-de-camp a battle oracle Aid-de-camp would rock.

Ok done a bit of research into Phantom Blade and quite set on it, so i have a small follow up question to throw to the crowd, what weapon?

Dwarf with martial training means all the dwarf specific weapons are on the cards, was just going to go dwarven waraxe but then remembered the Dorn Dugar(reach weapon option)- chain flail master feat allows it to be used one handed with a feat req of bab 4(class feature means level=bab for feat requirements)and twf. At 7th you can reshape you class weapon after resting so i could wait till then to use the dorn Dugar and just run with a dwarven axe in the mean time?

So is dorn Dugar worth it or are there better choices?

Cheers again for any thoughts.

Had same issues on all forums including 2nd edition ones, it's just a grand glichy bugfest, must be something they've broken server side.

Well, what's the rest of the group? If your going for teamwork feats a lit of that may change based on who else will be near you.

Um as i said disorganised are those i adventure with, but we will generally get a healer, a caster, a martial mix and maybe a trap finding person. well all except that one time it's worked out ok... but lets assume it'll cover the basics, we are a 5 man party and i can probably expect 1 or 2 more in melee at least and they might even be persuaded to take the odd teamwork feat.

A magus can do some damage and survive as long as their spells hold out. A phantom blade spiritualist is like a magus but has weaker attack spells and wis-based spellcasting, and can get to heavy armor faster. That last could definitely work as your cohort - some healing ability might be welcome on your backup.

Will look at those thanks and yes the extra healing is always a good idea and that arytpe sorts martial requirements and it's very nice and as an added bonus I've not actually played with any hero from the occult book, be a good reason to dust it off.

Been rather in a overwhelmed with ideas and just need to make a final choice, I've never used leadership and feel a little dirty with Esquire but i like my idea. My group suck at team planning and i want to try a good teamwork build cavalier. So help please?

To explain quickly, it's an older dwarf taking the nephew/niece off on an adventure, clan honor and family theme seems a nice simple basis.

Going to build sword(dwarven waraxe) and board, scion of high helm feat to get around charisma so nice gruff chap, order of dragon and oh it's a 20 point buy. Very loose build atm.

So to keep it simple what class would complement a cavalier.
1. Has to be full martial weapons trained class is only restrictions arytypes allowed.
2. But they'll share all the cavalier's teamwork feats.
3. But they'll be two levels behind forever as with leadership as normal so best not be to squishy.
4. Oh and a 15 point build if i understand the cohort rules right...
5. Anything that's a dwarf and probably in heavy armour.

I've looked at barbarian but feel could run a touch risky to go squish as much as the damage might be nice. Hunter twf(waraxes and lace)+ heavy armour... gm might kill me if it has a pet but would be fun... but arytpes can fix that and a pet is also forever-2 levels to current enemies too so might be two squishy outside full tank build in later levels. Teamwork paladin? Gah plain old warrior? I'm unsure, not aiming to be overpowered but it's the balance of survival vs damage that makes this so hard.
Any advice much appreciated cheers.

For an exceptionally strong specific scaling power combo go cavalier, dwarf(fcb) and daring champion arytpe. Thus you have challenge(with dwarf fcb) and prisise strike. Heck of a lot scaling damage.

Not that I've ever played it but bar light armor and 1 handed weapon restrictions (bladed brush if you like) it seems quite darn strong.

Side note you can carry your banner(flagbearer?) in your offhand or have a buckler with Heraldric enchant.

P.S I've been thinking about this cavalier I'm building way too much, making an Esquire but noticed this build as the only other really exciting mount less cavalier but I'm about the teamwork feats and have this clan like dwarf theme in my head so ignoring it and didn't want to cheese an Esquire with a daring champion follower - also fancy prancy dwarves? It's more of an elf thing clearly.

I was considering a few things, but was leaning towards a halfling bard(dervish of the dawn) magus(kensai) which is a strong build. But then I saw what the remainder of my group were playing and had felt my second choice would be wiser.

My mentally harmed friends decided on a human Flow monk, an Ogre brawler(yes the GM is tripping but I don't care as long as he's on my side), Warsighted(ghost child dhampir it's complex but whatever) oracle and a dhampir white witch\monk.

So I'm going weird too, I've built a changling sepratist cleric of pulura going into the stargazer prestige(weather seasons, travel trade and void stars domains). Mostly going summons feats but offering a solid caster and healer to a very meele heavy group. Joke of building the magnificent seven misfits but I ain't taking the leadership feat. Nice mix of face and a solid dash of force.

Honestly should be a strange adventure.

Yeah Pulura only so one step of her alignment sadly. Been wrestling with quicker summons for my build but can get three summons from CG that are nice mid to late levels with sacred summons, will have to suffer full round summons. But otherwise I can spontaneously turn summons into heals and stars(void) spells(if I pray under the stars) anyhow, so taking summons and not using them all the time shouldn't hurt my build.

You'll just have to weigh up evil Vs good in character design. Easier being bad it would seem, games teach us odd lessons.

The effective level of a guardian spirit is set by the spell level you use to summon it. You can change that spell level with a 24 hour ritual. It doesn't get character levels, just hit dice and SLAs - see here.

& yes sacred summons should work just fine with a lyrakien, guardian spirit or not.

Cheers again makes more sense now. Will see how the build goes.

I've been discussing my changing Separatist cleric of pulura and she's focusing on summoning among other things on the forums in another post, but only thing not mentioned here is the Stargazer prestige if your summoning animals one of the options adds an extra one to the number.

Getting one action summons is a pain in the ass. Saurian druid does it if I remember correctly but heavy restrictions.

Summon Guardian Spirit can use Azata, Lyrakien as it is a improved familiar with chaos and good subtypes, so with sacred summons it's an action to summon... Right? Might have some use in the action eco system.

Spell perfection feat chain might be a bit demanding but yeah meta spells, summon good, guardian, improved initiative and/or a crafting feat sound good thanks should give me enough to go on and I'll probably work it out as I go but solid plan. Thanks again avr.

Last thing how do you level Guardian spirit? Like a monster NPC? Or a follower/cohort? So can give it sorcerer or barbarian or whatever levels? Could make hell of a buffer going sorcerer or bard.

Ok think I will drop selective channeling feat and go for traits. Will keep summoning feats as are ATM, although wavering a little. But as I'd rather like to make use of more than just the CG ones and may as well summon lots but i will prepare some stat cards and numbered figures for speed of play with summoning so many.

And now knowing what my party are playing I'm happy I have enough between me and death to risk being a little low hit pointed.

Team consists of a human Flow monk, an Ogre brawler(yes the GM is tripping but I don't care as long as he's on my side), Warsighted(ghost child dhampir it's complex but whatever) oracle and a dhampir white witch\monk. They will be buying potions for some healing as sod off needing negative energy healing... I will take a few harms but not many. It's a strange party but sod it, I think it'll work...

Last thing is(unless you fancy poking holes in other areas) what should I feat for upto 13-19(assuming the adventure path ends about 17-19th) guess a magic item crafting feat but really not sure if I should get some combat feats or something else??? I always find late game feats tricky to pick as they feel underpowered at higher levels.

Share your wisdom if you fancy, cheers.

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

OP, seriously, I've never had a single blaster either in my game nor that I have actually played even come close to one shotting anything. The characters that have put out enough damage to nearly kill a creature has always been martials.

To be honest, my BlockBuster Wizard once almost one-shotted a boss.

** spoiler omitted **
But, honestly, the most deadly tools of that wizard were Icy Prison and Mydriatic Spontaneity.

I had a paladin crit the evil Aasimar at the end of the first book of rise of the runelords... smite Evil outsider and x4 crit weapon, one shot her. So martial can do it too, one shots happen just be clever and fudge it so it won't happen to often.

Late chime in but sylvan is fun if you want an animal companion. Then build from there what you will.

Hmm guess I could drop the selective channel. Just as the prestige scales with channel guess I fell into the old habbit of selective channel. Could take extra traits and go reactionary and some survival themed trait and give a bit more character and a bit more crunch.

With summons I'm not sure. I like the idea of upsetting GMs with an army of cats. I will sleep on it.

I'm quite tired and just spent like 30mins reading most of this long discussion so forgive me if I'm off on anything or repeat others.

I think you've come at this from the wrong angle, casters are strong either in blasting, utility or summoning. Rebalancing every spell is too much work for most people I recognise you've enjoyed rebalancing within never winter(love it myself) but your players may not see your logic and the micro management of house rules makes a complex game(yes like this 3rd edition of 3rd edition is simple this game has a lot of baggage)

I'd change tactics for example fireball is rubbish if the bad guys are spread or in amidst the party. Disintegration is rubbish if they can't​ tell who the boss is or if you just drop fog over the battlefield and reduce sight, then they burn spells clearing those with dispels or some other clever thinking.

Just feels like you focus on the fireballs and not on the rock paper wombat logic of the game if they 'cheese' some spell don't just give it to an NPC bad guy to punish them just make it worthless for an encounter ambushes or just multiple battle fronts in battle set can go a long way. Push them for a longer adventuring day, spells are finite fireball three rooms and go to bed, make it more imperative they manage there spells.

In regards to what damage you want this sorcerer to do it's never mattered as a GM I just balance a fight against my party not my party against my fight. You as a GM just need to manage your side of the table more than theirs.

Pathfinders main appeal to me is all the books, the classes, the archetypes and prestiges, you can make a million different characters and to restrict that just misses(for me at least) the real draw of the game system. Let them build what they want just be inventive and you can keep them on their toes and hopefully have fun too, it's not a competition you should one some level always want them to win and see the end of your story and now and then let them feel like badasses who can clear hordes with single spells coz you know he's a wizard not a greengrocer.

There are tighter more balanced and logical game systems than pathfinder/3.5 but as you can see with all the arguments about point buys and house rules above there are so many ways to alter this game it's probably more sensible and easier to fudge it behind a GM screen than rewrite the rulebook.

P.s sorry for the wall of text but I'm late for bed nn.

Ok just started making a character for a run of the Ironfang Invasion. After reading the player's guide I realised I wanted some nature/survival themed character but you know... Mix it up.

So went with a strange local girl who travels the local areas helping and healing. Loves her community which excepted her even with her strange origins.

The prestige class Stargazer(from paths of the righteous) caught my eye a while back as a nice mix of flavor and function, so this is built towards that prestige. But I'm not 100% happy. Please critique what follows.

20 point buy. 11, 12, 12, 10, 16, 14. Then adding racials...

Str 11
Dex 12
Con 10 (too low?)
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 16

My aims have evolved into party face, summoning and solid by the numbers healing. Might be too much but here we go.

Domains:
Weather(seasons)
Travel(trade)(Separatist domain)
Void(stars)(at lvl 6 from prestige)

Traits:
Frontier healer(from Ironfang Invasion player's guide)
Creative manipulator

Feats:
1) Selective channel
3) spell focus (conjunction)
5) augment summons
7) superior summons
9) Sacred summons
11) divine interference
13+ not sure but first few levels so crowded wanted extra traits for more flavor but just so tricky.

lvl 1-5 cleric, 6-15 Stargazer and rest cleric unless I find something better.

Sidereal Arcana:
7) the mother
9) the pack
11) the Stargazer
13) the wagon
15)the thrush

Hexes:
6) heaven's leap
14) flight

Ok it's a big ask for people to look at as the prestige is so rule heavy but am I missing anything, the prestige is only d6 hd am I risking too much with con 10(could move 2 from charisma). And and summoning tips as never really tried a focused summoner I know sacred will work ok with CG and when I want I can just summon loads of animal summons at +2 thanks to "the pack" and superior summons. Domains are full progression bar -2 on Separatist liked travel for theme and face... Gah so much going on with this build.

Any help is appreciated, thanks Monty.

Unless I'm mistaken Aasimar and Tieflings both can count as humanoid(human) too with trait swaps. So they can use human caster fcb. Both have dark vision and although I don't claim to be a pfs expert I believe they're playable.

Odd question if I say polymorph through our spell link would my big cat retain his pounce ability? In say dragon form... I think it's unlikely but I'm unsure.

Means using certain beasties might be preferable for this build if only base stats carry through, a megalocerous(big elk) might be better. I'm probably going to stay cat personally either way but numbers matter to a lot of people.

You can wield oversized two handed weapons without needing three hands. A certain iconic barbarian does just this. So logic holds you use them that way... The lace was designed to make use of giant magic items and help twf so I'd assume that makes sense...

Edit: no your right. She's weilding a large bastard sword. Titan Mauler was designed to offer this trick so ignore me on the main hand lace idea.

Seems prestige classes are leading discussions at the moment. To be honest I found 3/3.5 suffered from a lot of prestige power creep. Ur Priests combined with mystic theurge comes to mind as a bad example amid 3rd's time, sure there was a silly undead PrC as well that gave broken amounts of undead.

I like the way pazio is running them at the moment. I love hellknight signifiers allowing partial class ability advancement in a nicely rounded class, ofc Inner Sea Gods went further with this but I genuinely think them now as rare gems to look forward to rather than a glut of game defining power gaming tools.

They remain a tool to further make your hero unique and variety is the spice of life so let's encouraged more of them but only when they really add something special.

Ok not wanting to repeat myself but... again in terms of flavor two katanas twf both with effortless lace and the main one oversized basically is classic katana and wakazashi but actually rulewise better damage.

My point is get inventive in describing and fleshing out your characters. Given time I'm sure pazio will add more feats to help meet your needs but only when they deem it in character to their Golarian setting(e.g the dragon kingdoms getting a full book), till then I think we have to be inventive and simply work around it.

Cayden Cailean is a fencer but generally is seen with a drink in the off hand. I think it's probably got a little wiggle room for flavor but rules wise 'what' you can hold in the off hand is probably a tough question.

Davic The Grey wrote:

That is an incredibly subjective distinction. It seems you're arguing that weapons are not "used in conjunction" with TWF? TWF's entire purpose and language tells you what happens when you use such and such a type of weapon in an off hand. Any feat, spell or special weapon ability that mentions needing or having its effect altered by the fact that the weapon is light is affected by effortless lace.

Well, I would argue that the item allows you to use weapon finesse, as well as feats, spells and special weapon abilities that require a light weapon, even if you're using a one handed weapon. Because that's certainly what it seems to say. But looking a little further, it seems that Alexander Augunas did intend for the item to affect two weapon fighting, opening up options. So even though I don't think it says that, it's not the first item/ability that isn't phrased well. And I would go with the author's intent over however it ends up worded, because word count and editing can do weird things to technical writing, which isn't exactly easy to begin with. So yeah, effortless lace should work.

Good job finding Augunas's comment. Good to note it isn't pfs legal as Augunas says but it is powerful enough to consider for any home game. I might play with it in one of my future builds.

Achaekek's favored weapon is Sawtooth saber can again help builds also Shizuru gives katana. With this and effortless lace you warrior clerics might have fun.

You are right different weapons in twf is not really encouraged, hopefully pazio explore it down the line.

But effortless lace is a neat trick for use with two of the same one handed weapon an oversized main hand and light offhand. But that's a side thought would make it feel like your weilding different weapons, thinking bastard swords... Feronia's favored weapon BTW.