Lamorake's page

I've read the PDF and I agree, it basically only recommends changing the HD/BAB and Feats that deal with Turn/Command Undead... oh, and for PrCs, if they require a 'x' skill level, just subtract 3 from it. Otherwise, they don't recommend additional customization. Of course, that's where houseruling conversion would come into play.

First off, there's been a great debate on this thread, everyone for the most part being very polite, using sources for emphasis on viewpoints, etc. Very nice to see!

It seems the problem lies with the interpretation of how additional attacks (beyond the base iterative attacks) are derived.

The options appear to come from:

Haste (Spell)
Speed (Magic Enhancement)
Class Ability (Flurry of Blows, Ki)
Feat (Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc)

It seems that everyone is on the same page that Haste and Speed do not stack (from very clear RAW), and the rest becomes less clear as people interpret grammar or possibly RAI (Rules As Intended).

My opinion is that Class Abilities and Feats that improve/increase attacks are not considered "Effects", but rather training and mastering of skills... I would see "similar effects" to mean something mostly magical or supernatural that isn't earned through experience... so I would allow Haste/Speed to stack with Flurry, Rapid Shot, Ki Pool, etc.

Only if the ability specifically states that it doesn't stack with haste or similar abilities to gain an extra attack, would I disallow it. (Case in point, the Frenzy ability that the PrC Frenzied Beserker receives, specifically states that the extra attack granted doesn't stack with haste).

Again, this is the way I think the rules are intended, but it's really up to DM/play style and how you want to balance your game.

Actually clerics don't turn anymore, they channel. You have to pay a feat to actually turn. The cleric to me is the definition of "feat" taxed.

The current cleric is built to be a healer and well something else depending on your domains and spell selection.

I do think you can build a cleric with lower spell access and spellcasting power that isn't crap. Heck a good PrC for a fight/cleric similar to the EK would be fine. Heck drop the fart healing and domains for more fighting power would be just fine for a PrC to me as well.

Using cleric spells correctly, even lower to mid level spells, you can build a very viable archer or melee specialist, even without domain special abilities.... for example:

Cleric archer (Human):
Feats: 1st (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot) 3rd (Rapid Shot) 5th (Zen Archery) 7th (Holy Warrior) 9th (Quicken Spell)

By the time you hit 9th level, you can a quicken divine favor (+3 to hit, +3 to damage), you add +5 to your damage if you have access to your highest level domain spell, you can cast blessed aim for +2 additional to hit (quickened if you have high enough wisdom), you add your wisdom bonus to hit rather than dexterity thanks to zen archery, and the list goes on.... So just from round 1 combat at 9th lvl:

"to hit" = 6 (BAB) + 3 (Divine Favor) + X (Wis modifier) + X (Magic enhancement modifier)
"damage" = 3 (Divine Favor) + 5 (Holy Warrior) + X (Magic enhancement modifier) + X (Str modifier if composite bow)

Clerics aren't feat taxed, or lacking flavor/boring. You can be a healer, a combat expert, defensive expert, you name it, if you take the time to plan your spells and feats correctly. Domains also add flavor and abilities... along with the diety followed. They might not get things like "trackless step" at 5th level, but they don't need to...

Okay, I'm working on converting some feats, one of them is "Exalted Turning" from Book of Exalted Deeds. The feat basically adds 3d6 dmg when doing Turn Undead.

How to proceed with the conversion... below is something taken from the Pathfinder conversion document. So do you think it's a mechanics situation or something else?

Conversion Quote:
"If the feat relies on the turn undead mechanics, it now relies on the channel energy mechanics. Those that specifically deal with causing undead to flee or fall under the character's command should have Turn Undead or Command Undead added as a prerequisite."

Here's a few choices I've heard from friends, just looking for a consensus:

1) When using Channeling to harm undead, add +3d6 Damage (but not to healing).
2) Add the Turn Undead feat as a pre-req in order to receive the feat.
3) Add +1 to DC to the save.

Thoughts?

If you wanna really take a look at every PrC that Wizard recognized for D&D 3.x .... you are looking at 782 entries. There are some duplicates from different sources, but there's a LONG, LONG list there.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc

I'd have to agree that some PrCs are overpowered, at least for a 1 to 3 level dip, and there are some PrCs that are worse than simply staying in a core class. (from my opinion only, others may disagree due to play style and quite possibly a better imagination on how to utilize abilities I might find worthless)

Optimized 1-2 level dip PrC just off the top of my head:

Pious Templar (for good saves, Mettle ability)
Dragonslayer (1st level provides "Fearless" ability, +1 caster level)
Warshaper (1st lvl immune to stun/criticals)
Order of the Bow Initiate (remove AoO with bow in melee)

Like I said, that's just off the top, there are quite a few more that I know people will go into, such as Exotic Weapons Master, but I don't know the whole reason behind the "dip" - I just know it's usually to optimize as much as possible.

I was wondering about adding the Turn Undead feat as a requirement, but was curious about how the Conversion document read on the subject of converting feats for this type of issue:

Conversion Quote:
"If the feat relies on the turn undead mechanics, it now relies on the channel energy mechanics. Those that specifically deal with causing undead to flee or fall under the character's command should have Turn Undead or Command Undead added as a prerequisite."

Exalted Turning from BoED has nothing to do with causing undead to flee, but instead seems to add to the mechanics, IE add 3d6 dmg... wasn't sure, though. Thanks for the input! :)

I'd agree on the "equals or exceeds" ruling. Usually if you base it on the aggressor's/initiating check equaling the DC. So, for example if I was initiating a grapple/trip/disarm, my roll would need to equal or exceed the CMD.

I would think as long as the lion had a light load with the rider, it could use it's improved grab ability, but the rider would most definitely need to make a Ride skill check to remain mounted - probably DC 15 to 20. There's no exact ruleset for it, so I'll assume it'll be up to the DM's discretion.

How would one go about converting "exalted turning" to "exalted channeling"?

Per the feat in BoED, it adds 3d6 damage to every turn undead attempt. Would that convert to = +3d6 on channeled healing? Seems possibly a little extravagant.

Thoughts?

Okay, the errata verbiage makes more sense! Thanks!

I thought, so, but liked to confirm! Thanks for those that replied. :)

I'm not sure how many people have gotten into traits yet, but was looking through them, and was wondering on how you think the mechanics of "Divine Warrior works. Here's the description:

"From an early age, you were trained by militaristic order of clerics. You are devoted both to the teachings of Iomadae and to spreading those teachings by force. Your divine spells gain a +1 trait bonus to melee weapon damage."

So does that mean the every time you cast a spell with a duration, you gain a +1 bonus to melee weapon damage? What's people's views on this?

After multi-classing from a cleric into another class, I was wondering how the special abilities are calculated under the Domain special abilities.

IE: Let's say I have a Cleric 4 / Monk 2 (6th level Character). I have the Healing Domain. It states at 6th level, you receive "Healer's Blessing".

Now, is that 6th level Cleric, or 6th level Character?