|
Krodjin's page
1,309 posts. Organized Play character for Daryl MacLeod.
|


Paizo FAQ wrote: Monk: Can a qinggong monk take a second archetype if the character doesn't swap out abilities the second archetype requires?
Yes. However, the other archetype takes priority over the various abilities granted at each level, and the character can't delay taking an ability that the other archetype replaces—he must allow the second archetype to replace the standard ability at the standard class level.
For example, the monk of the healing hand archetype (APG) replaces
wholeness of body (7th level)
diamond body (11th level)
quivering palm (15th level)
perfect self (20th level).
A qinggong monk who also wants to take the monk of the healing hand archetype has to let the healing hand archetype replace all four of those abilities at those specific class levels. The qinggong monk is still free to replace any standard monk abilities at the other class levels listed in the qinggong monk archetype (slow fall at 4th, high jump at 5th, and so on), so long as selecting those abilities doesn't interfere with acquiring the healing hand abilities at the correct levels.
Note that if the second archetype replaces a standard monk ability, the character cannot select that replaced ability at a later monk level. For example, the qinggong/healing hand monk can never select wholeness of body, even at a level higher than 7th. In effect, the character has selected wholeness of body at 7th and immediately replaced it with a healing hand ability; as the qinggong archetype only lets you select an ability later if the character "selects a different ki power in place of a standard monk ability" (which didn't occur), that option is not available for the character.
I realize this is a thread necro. And I realize the OP's post was written 2 years prior to this FAQ.
However, I was just using the search function to try and find an answer to a different question I had about the qinggong archetype, and this was the second search result returned.
I figured I might as well post this FAQ here in case others who may not be aware of this FAQ are using the search function .
At some point I thought I read in a previous Paizo book, that each order of Hellknight had a favoured weapon, like flails or what have you.
Was I imagining that?
Anyone recall which book, or know what said weapons are?
Look, we can dance around this all day. The only question that matters is: how do I convince my GF to accept the measurement of my junk that was made on a diagonal?
It's an easy 8 when every second inch counts as two.
Ba-dum ching!
I'll be here all week, try the veal!

|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Saethori wrote: "Charge while mounted" is not the same thing as "mounted on something that is charging". The FAQ you quoted is clear that if you charge, your mount also charges, but that doesn't mean that if your mount charges, that you are also charging!
It seems perfectly valid for your mount to charge while you don't do so. You won't gain the benefits for charging, but you shouldn't be forced to accept the drawbacks.
According to the FAQ, charge while mounted does = mounted on something that is charging.
You both charge in unison.
I understood what you were trying to get at. I think Gauss understood what you were trying to get at.
I think this is exactly what other people were trying to get at before the FAQ explained that there is no distinction. It's both are charging, or neither are charging.
You can ask the question 10 different ways, but the answer is always, according to the FAQ, "you both charge in unison".
Now I'm not saying I completely agree with this. I can imagine a few legit role play scenarios where a distinction is merited, but at that point it's a house rule. YMMV, consult your GM.
Masked Participant wrote: So no ranged attacks from the rider while the mount is charging then? The rules for attacking after a charge seem to preclude this:
SRD wrote: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. This is one of those scenarios, like Flanking, where a melee attack is expressly called out.
So I guess your best bet is to have your mount make a single move and you make a full attack with your bow without any penalties.
|
5 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Grimmy wrote: I can't tell you how many friends I've lost over this same issue. I used to have so much love in my life, now I am all alone.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm on my 3rd marriage thanks to these damn diagonals.
Derklord wrote: You need a pretty high accuracy for Power Attack to be worth it for TWF. The problem is the 1:1 ratio for the offhand - more often than not, you end up reducing your offhand's average damage, and the damage increase for the mainhand is not big enough to compensate (at least not enough to make the feat worth picking up). True. You're better adding to your "to hit" or finding ways to add small static bonuses to damage w/each hand. For example the River Rat trait gives a flat +1 to damage with Daggers... That +1 makes the dagger a better choice DPR wise than the Kukri for quite awhile. Eventually the kukri's expanded threat range will catch and exceed the dagger + River Rat, but it takes awhile.
I want to have to do as little tinkering as possible. So with that in mind I will go 15 point buy, increase # of foes for certain encounters, and do my best to limit the 15 minute adventuring day... The only issue I see with that last part is that the rebellion tracker assumes 1 event per day...
The action economy is easily the biggest challenge. A party of 6 gets 50% more actions than a party of 4...
Hi All,
I'm in the process of reading the first two books in the AP before our group will actually start making characters.
Our group consists of 7 players and a GM (we rotate GM's). I'll be running this AP.
I'm concerned with the size of our party as the AP is designed for 4 PC's. It's one of the main reasons we don't play too many AP's, but this one really caught my attention, so I'd like to run it.
We all work and I work unusually long hours, so I don't have a lot of time to invest in altering the campaign.
What would you guys do to adjust the CR in order to compensate for the larger than typical Party?
My thoughts are to simply weaken the characters by having them start with the elite array for stats, rather than a 20 point buy.
Would that be enough?

Seranov wrote: Yep. There is no stipulation that you can't TWF with a pair of Earthbreakers when you have Thunder and Fang. It would be inadvisable because of the big damn penalties you'd take (-4/-4, I think? Because you don't have a Light Weapon in your offhand) but you can do it. Actually, I did the math and it's better from a DPR perspective to take the -4/-4 and use the 2 Earthbreakers*.
However, when this came up before the author of the feat chimed in and said this was not within the rules as intended.
For all those who operate strictly under the "RAW", I suspect it will be errata'd at somepoint, so enjoy using your twin hammers while you still can!
*Note: when I did the math I did not use the 'bashing' enhancement on the Klar which would bump it up to 2d6 damage, and I did not factor in the positive effect of using Shield Master to negate the TWF penalty on your bashing klar... And of course I didn't factor in the cash advantage the klar user receives by only having to enhance the klar as shield and still get the AC bonus on your attack rules.
If you have another way of getting 1.5x STR mod to damage, I'd presume you'd qualify for the 3:1 Power Attack ratio.
But otherwise, Kalindlara is right - if it's your only natural attack (and the only attack you make that round), is the usual way that a Primary natural attack gets the 1.5x STR & 3:1 power attack.
On the other hand with a Dagger and the trait 'River Rat' you get a flat +1 bonus to damage that stacks with everything, is multiplied on a crit, applies equally to your off-hand, and your weapon (being a Dagger) has a range increment - which makes it more versatile.
When compared to the higher threat range Kukri, the Dagger + River Rat do more DPR until your static bonuses that get critiplied are into the double digits (like +13 or +14 or so, if I recall).
It's probably pretty easy for a Ranger or Fighter to get those static bonuses high enough. But for a class whose extra damage is not critiplied and who do not get free martial proficiency, the kukri is actually probably a worse choice than the trusty old dagger.

Kazaan wrote: No big cause it says "if you wield a double weapon in one hand". It doesn't say "you may wield a double weapon in one hand". You need some other rules element to allow you to wield it in just one hand. You can't swing just one head of an Orc double axe for the same reason you can't swing a Greataxe with one hand. That's not exactly what it says.
double weapons wrote: Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
No "ifs" or "mays". Simply "a creature wielding a double weapon in one hand"... To me that makes it read as a viable option straight out of the box. The only caveat is "only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round".
Kazaan wrote: What it's saying is that if, for any special reason, you are able to wield a double weapon in one hand, you cannot use its double property for TWF. You must commit 2 hands, even if you could otherwise wield it in just one. Almost all double weapons are 2h, save for the Taiaha, a primative weapon which is 1h. You can wield a taiaha in one hand, but must commit 2 hands to use it double. Same goes for an undersized double weapon. You could wield a double sword one size smaller as 1h, but must use both hands to use it as a double. I don't think it's limited to special reasons... As a fairly mundane example I would say that the rules allow an Orc, who is say climbing a ships rigging or hanging from a rope (with one hand), to make an attack with his Orc-Double axe using just his free hand. However, he can only attack with one end of the weapon in that instance.
I read it as the character can only use one end of said weapon as a 1-handed weapon if using only one hand to wield that weapon.
Now, I haven't checked in a while, but I believe all of the double weapons are listed under the two-handed weapons section of the equipment tables.
So double weapons are unique in that they are 2-handed weapons that can also be used as a 1-handed weapon and a light-weapon - and apparently as merely a 1-handed weapon if being used in one hand.
I think it's worded that way because of feats like Power Attack that state you get extra damage if using a 2-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon in 2 hands... So if you are using a double weapon in one hand and attacking with only one end of it you don't get the extra power attack damage despite it being a 2-handed weapon.
Edit: After re-reading what I wrote I've come to the conclusion that I may not be articulating what I'm trying to say very well.

Selgard wrote:
If you can't have it twice though then you can't take the class level that grants it- just like you can't take Eschew Materials multiple times (even for no effect on subsequent feats).
-S
Where does it say you can't take eschew materials multiple times? In fact, where does it say you can't take any feat multiple times? Here is the quote from the PRD under Feat Descriptions;
PRD; Feat Descriptions wrote: The following format is used for all feat descriptions.
Feat Name: The feat's name also indicates what subcategory, if any, the feat belongs to, and is followed by a basic description of what the feat does.
Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or anything else required in order to take the feat. This entry is absent if a feat has no prerequisite. A feat may have more than one prerequisite.
Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.
Special: Additional unusual facts about the feat.
I've italicized and bolded the important part. The very fact that it says "if a character has the same feat more than once" expressly implies that a character, any character, can select a feat multiple times. Specific feats will let you know if you gain a benefit from selecting this feat multiple times, or if you've just made a very bad decision. ;)
As far as the OP question goes I do not think that by RAW the scenario would be allowed because of the caveat that says "the old feat can't be one you used as a prerequisite".
Even though in the example listed it can reasonably be debated that the character is not using his level 1 Combat Expertise as a prerequisite any longer, the fact that he used it as a prerequisite makes it ineligible for retraining.
That's what the RAW says (IMO).
However, the logistics and paperwork required to track which feat did what several levels ago is not something I'm partial too and I would 100% let any of my characters retrain the level 1 Combat Expertise.
If that Player was planning to do that in organized play I would advise them to expect table variation and proceed with caution.
Does it have to be a DEX based build? Going STR based and using a class like Ranger or something that lets you skip the prerequisites for TWF feats will probably do more damage in the long run. It will also save you feats or gold, or both, as you don't have to worry about Weapon Finesse and getting DEX to damage (either via feat or the Agile enhancement).
If you want to do TWF it does become feat intensive. If you're going DEX based you may find you need to go fighter in order to get all the feats you need, and be able to add some feats for flavour. That's not necessarily a bad thing either. Weapon Trainging and Gloves of Dueling are nice!
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Bustler wrote: 1) My view is, that the monk can use TWF unarmed, even combine flurry and TWF for an "additional off-hand attack" on top of the "flurry additional attack" accepting the applicable attack penalties on all attacks. If the off-hand weapon is not a monk weapon, the standard TWF penalties apply - also applying 1/2 Strength bonus to weapon damage and not increasing the BAB to monk level.
That's not how it works. Flurry is a special full-attack action. TWF requires a full attack.
You cannot execute two full attacks in the same round.
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: He's a level 5 fighter. He gets weapon training, giving him a +1 to attack and damage to all members of a weapon group, which is in this case Heavy Blades. perfect. Thank you.
Hi all,
Reading Mister Plugg's stat block (pg. 54) I note his melee attacks are listed as:
Tidewater cutlass +8 (1d6+6/18-20) and mwk cat-o'-nine-tails +6 (1d4+1 non lethal) when he is two-weapon fighting.
I can't seem to get this to add up?
His BAB is +5, STR +2, WF +1, cutlass +1, so that's +9, less TWF of -2 equals +7.
Furthermore I can't figure out his damage at +6. STR +2, WS +2, cutlass +1 equals +5.
Is the Tidewater Cutlass supposed to be a +2 weapon? It would account for the difference in both attack and damage, but seems awfully powerful for the PC's to acquire at third level, their estimated level when they stage their mutiny.
Also this:
Acrobatics skill wrote: Special: If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.
Nocte ex Mortis wrote: Mwahaha. You burned a ki point didn't you?
No. For one, using a Ki point in this way is a swift action - of which you get 1 per round.
So on a full-attack the Ninja can burn a Ki point to make one additional attack at his highest BAB.
Note: This extra Ki attack does stack with Haste. So if conditions are right a Ninja can get 2 extra attacks in a round.
Ki Pool (Su) wrote: By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack.
That bit about using Perfect Strike on your pheromone arrow is brilliant! However, if you are not shooting an arrow that absolutely must hit I like to use Perfect Strike on one of my iteratives.
So for example lets say level 10 with Ki point & haste... Your attacks (using only BAB) will be:
+8 (haste)/+8 (Ki Point) /+8 /+8 /+3 (use Perfect Strike here) /+3
If you've used one of your feat slots to pick up "Hammer the Gap" this can add a few more points of damage each round.
Using Perfect Strike on your 1st iterative almost guarantees you hit with your first 5 arrows each round (remember at level 10 you get to add a 3rd d20 to your Perfect Strike roll).
I agree with the above and recommend using your standard feats for non-archery related things, in most cases.
Being a Human with that alternate racial trait that grants you skill focus at 1st, 8th, and 16th will get you 2 extra feats in PFS which you can use to increase your out of combat utility.
Skill Focus Perception is great, and you could use the other to boost a CHA based skill (like diplomacy or UMD) to compensate for any penalty you may have for a low stat.
Qingong is a good archetype to take as well as you will have a great Ki Pool with your maxed out Wisdom.
I'm not sure if Wisdom in the Flesh is a PFS legal trait - but if you wanted to boost Acrobatics or Disable Device or something by making them be Wisdom based, it's a decent option.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
M_Blackhand wrote: So just because you're an expert in reloading a light crossbow does not make you an expert in other types of crossbows. What's he's done is legal, but it doesn't even optimize the weapon (which is sub-optimal to begin with).
If he chose light crossbow when he chose Rapid Reload he's going to be eating AoO's reloading a heavy crossbow as a free action with Crossbow Mastery.
So Crossbow Mastery makes him a master of all crossbows, but he's still has the greatest level of expertise with the Light Crossbow, hence no AoO's when reloading.
This is fine rules & fluff wise. Sub-optimal yes, but still totally fine.
He still needs point-blank master to avoid AoO's when firing. Which is nuts. They should have just rolled that into Crossbow Mastery as far as I'm concerned.
That sounds all well and good. But I have yet to see any official text describing this whole "slashing or bashing" thing...
I know the Klar appears in various publications, with various differences in the description.
None of the sources I have differentiate between bashing or slashing.
Just a Guess wrote: As far as I understood it the klar is only light if you have thunder and fang. I think that's the idea, at least when reading the Thunder & Fang feat. But - in description of a klar it specifically references a klar being treated as a "light wooden shield with armor spikes" or a "light steel shield with armor spikes".
Then, when you read about "light" steel or wooden shields you find that they are considered "light weapons" and heavy wooden/steel shields are considered "one-handed" weapons.
It all makes for a very confusing weapon.
If it's truly treated as a "one-handed" weapon it has the advantage of being able to be used two handed - providing 1.5x STR bonus and 3:1 power attack bonus. But, if you want to TWF with double klars are you taking a -4/-4 penalty (with TWF feat)?
If it's able to be treated as a "light weapon" the TWF penalties are better at just -2/-2, but you gain no extra STR or Power Attack damage.
I don't think it's ever treated as a shield with shield spikes... If I recall, it's treated as a shield with "armor spikes".
And all that stuff about bashing or slashing is not found anywhere in the description of the klar.
Before going whole hog on the mounted combat thingy... Talk to your GM and find out if the campaign is geared around mounted combat or if you're going to be doing a dungeon crawl?
If it's the latter, you're not going to have a good time.
Don't think Rangers have access to Large Cat as an AC.

blackbloodtroll wrote: A Shield is a weapon.
It is not damn improvised weapon.
It is not a "off-hand only" weapon.
It can be enchanted as a weapon, because it is a weapon.
It can be wielded in two hands, like any other weapon, because it is a weapon.
It is a valid choice for the Weapon Focus feat, and similar, because it is a weapon.
It is in the Close Fighter Weapon Group, because it is a weapon.
When pricing the shield for special materials, and no specific cost is listed for shields, you use the price for weapons, because it is a weapon.
No one bats a dang eye at the realistically unwieldable Dire Flail, Orc Double Axe, Barbazu Beard, or the Halfling Doulble Sling.
No, we flip over a weapon that has seen centuries of real combat, and pretend it's a nerf covered anchor, hand-cuffed to the arm.
To those, I, and Captain F*cking America say:
Stuff it.
I saw this thread and I clicked on it... Not because I have anything to add to this conversation (I don't).
I clicked on it because I knew you would click on this thread. And I knew you would post a reply. And I knew I would be missing out on something fantastic if I didn't see what that reply would be.
And I wasn't disappointed.
That's gold Jerry. Gold!
(And I agree with all of it.)
Magda Luckbender wrote: I understand it seems like it should matter. Most people whose character wields a reach weapon seem to think it's really important. Most reach fighters seem to spend substantial resources making sure they can threaten adjacent. I've lost track of how many Toothy half-orcs wielding a reach weapon I've seen. Really though, if you actually track which weapon gets used when, I think you'll find it hardly matters. Toothy is hardly a substantial resource... At low levels it adds considerably more DPR - so in that sense it can be tactically important.
Having said that, I agree with you that if you are worried about losing out on potential AoO's it's not that big of a deal.
And at mid to higher levels when you start facing foes that have DR or require magical effects in order to hit them, well, that's when things like Toothy become a completely wasted resource.
Hide Shirt? It's light armor, but with a STR check you can break it and it falls off you.
Ranger 10/MoMS 2
Half-Orc (toothy)
It comes together late for a PFS game as 'Multiattack' does not become available until Ranger 10. But it has 3 primary natural attacks from level 2 onwards that give it decent DPR at low to mid game.
The key points are Feral Combat Training (Claws), Power Attack, Dragon Style/Ferocity, Power Attack. Supplement with TWF/ITWF if you'd like.
FCT allows your claws to use your 1d6 UAS damage.
With the new FAQ on Dragon Style/Ferocity your Claws should get 3:1 Power Attack ratio, your Unarmed Strikes get 2:1 and your Bite gets 1:1.
At level 12 your full-attack routine (just using BAB +/- TWF/Multiattack penalties) is;
Claws: +9/+9 (1.5 x STR & 3:1 Power attack)
UAS: +9/+9/+4/+4/-1 (1.5 x STR & 2:1 Power Attack)
Bite: +9 (.5 x STR & 1:1 Power Attack)
Keep in mind that your first UAS or Claw attack of each round gets 2x STR.
An amulet of mighty fists powers all of your natural attacks so is actually very cheap.
Dragon Style, for the ability to charge through squares containing allies and through difficult terrain, would be a nice have as well.
If the Scouts Charge/Sap Master combo works as well in practice as it looks on paper, I would expect the GM may start utilizing a lot of difficult terrain and clogging up charge lanes.
Yeah, I know. There is no way I'm letting this encounter happen at level 1...
I think they will learn about this NPC at level 1, but not actually encounter him/her until later.
Okay, so I just checked the Beastiary 2 listing on the official PRD site and they have pounce/rake listed (I guess my hardcover version is an older printing)... But I'm struggling with the idea that a creature with DR 10/Silver, 3 primary natural attacks, pounce, rake, and 2d6 sneak attack is CR4...
Even if I make intentionally poor decisions and don't use any tactics at all (which would be out of character for an intelligent creature), I don't see how it could end in any way except a TPK if I try and run it as an epic encounter.
Am I wrong to think that?
Thanks, but your re-written stat block for the Weretiger also doesn't list rake/pounce (at least I didn't see it).
Basically my main concern is the CR. I have a story arc planned that climaxes with an encounter against a Weretiger that I don't want to end in a TPK (because the CR is too low) or a walk in the park (because the CR is falsely inflated).
My plan was to switch the rogue levels for ninja and change up the talents for tricks.. I want it to be Epic (APL +3) and to be honest I think the creature would fairly easily wipe the floor with a 1st level party... I'm guessing the actual CR is more like 5 or 6, maybe even 7 (depending how you view the class levels)
Doesn't sound like much, but at low levels it is significant
Claxon wrote: Jeff Merola is correct in his statements.
The player cannot attack with a greatsword and then in the same round attack with natural attacks that use those limbs. He could make a bite attack if he had one. Or a gore, of a hoof, if he had any of those. But he can't use his arms to make other attacks than the greatsword.
this is all correct. It has nothing to do with free actions, grip shifting, or anything else... The limbs that have the claws have been used to swing the sword and are therefore not eligible to be used again that round.

So there are, apparently, a number of errors with the Beastiary 2 entry for Weretiger (pg. 183).
When compared to the rules for creating a lycanthrope in the Beastiary 1 (pg. 196), it appears as if the following are wrong in Beastiary 2;
1. CR: it should be same as base creature or animal (whichever is higher) +1. A Tiger is CR 4, a Weretiger Rogue 4 is also CR 4 (me thinks it should be CR 5, or even higher if you use the rules fir advancing a monster by adding class levels).
2. Size: in hybrid form a lycanthrope should be the same size as the base creature or animal; whichever is larger. A tiger is size large. Weretiger is medium.
3. Natural attacks: the Weretiger should gain all the attacks, including special attacks of the base animal when in hybrid form. The Weretiger entry does not list Pounce or Rake.
Assuming a Weretiger can use pounce or rake: these attacks should qualify for sneak attack, even in animal form, right? (Assuming they meet the criteria to be eligible for sneak attacks).
Thanks in advance.
graystone wrote: Untyped is as viable a bonus as a typed bonus. Why would competence or luck get a pass while untyped get hit? Is it really an untyped bonus though? If the bonus granted by a trait is not expressly called out as an untyped bonus, isn't it just a trait bonus?
Zen Archer is another WIS based class. the nice thing is you can use all of your regular feats to boost your skills or whatever because the class gives you everything you ever need to be a rocking archery (except deadly aim, take deadly aim!)

What are you going to close quarter fighting with? As you already know the Paladin can't qualify for Point-blank Master so it will be tough to close quarters fight with your bow.
Without enough room for Weapon Finesse it will be tough to hit consistently with a melee weapon (assuming you are DEX focused).
And to be honest I don't know if you can use your divine bond class feature with more than one weapon (and clearly not more than one at a time) - which means fighting in close quarters is going to be so much less effective for you if you can't use your bow...
But, a 3 level dip into Monk (Zen Archer) would give you several nice perks, including the following;
- Unarmed Strike
- Perfect Strike
- Precise Shot
- Rapid Shot (yes you also get Flurry - but this is required for pre-requisites later on or with armor).
- Weapon Focus (Longbow)
- Point-blank Master
- +3 bonus to all saves
= +10' movement
It also gives you the option of taking the Oath of Vengeance archetype (which doesn't stack with Divine Hunter due to both replacing Aura of Justice)... The Oath of Vengeance gives great synergy with your build idea because it lets you convert all those bonus lay on hands in to smites!
An of course now you can close quarters fight with either unarmed strikes or your bow.
The downside is it costs you 1 BAB.
Just a thought.
blahpers wrote: Dude, just stop. It was just getting entertaining.
chbgraphicarts wrote: Melkiador wrote: Officially you need the separate weapon proficiency.
I personally feel that's a horrible idea though. Shields do weak damage and you lose the armor of the shield when attacking with it unless you have a separate feat. Putting a feat tax on attacking with the shield just feels unnecessary.
The one exception, however, is a dual-shield-wielding Warpriest: no two-weapon-fighting penalties, you always keep your highest Shield Bonus to Armor, your Enhancement Bonus on a Shield applies as a though it were a bonus to the Shield as a Weapon, and you are dealing greater damage than the Shield normally would even at lv1.
It doesn't become Superman until about lv11 or 12, but it's still a solid choice before then, and in games going to lv15+ it's just absurd. Ranger is good too. Gets Shield Master at 6th, which is fantastic in a capped game.
Serisan wrote: Here's how it works with a fairly extreme example: Level 9 Tengu Ninja
Feats:
Improved Unarmed, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Racial swap: Claw Attack
This is a character designed to throw tons of attacks. You have a few different options, ignoring the option to use a Ki point for an extra attack:
Claw/Claw/Bite (all at full bonus)
OR
Punch/Punch/Punch/Punch/Bite (-2/-2-/7/-7/-5)
OR
Kick/Kick/Kick/Kick/Claw/Claw/Bite (-2/-2/-7/-7/-5/-5/-5)
This Character needs Multiattack, STAT!
Edward Sobel wrote: isn't there two weapon fighting penalties in there somewhere? No, not anymore. In earlier printings of the CRB there was mention of TWF penalties and the -5 from combining natural & manufactured weapons being cumulative. At some point after the 4th printing or so of the CRB the TWF penalties were dropped.
Currently if you combine natural attacks with a manufactured weapon attack, the natural attacks are made at just -5 (unless you have multiattack) and become secondary.
Edward Sobel wrote: I was in a game where a magus easily reigned on the battlefield while my barbarian was useless.
claw/claw/bite/claw/shocking grasp as a full attack routine at level 2
me: sword.... done
Don't feel too bad. The magus was not following the rules.
I would say that the Divine Tracker Ranger effectively gains the EWP feat for the sawtooth sabre.
|