The Hellfire Compact (GM Reference)


Hell's Vengeance

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I DM'd for my group this past weekend, and we started this AP.

Cleric who wants to control undead; magus; inquisitor; gunslinger; ninja.

Cimri gathered her team at the Ash House the morning of the caper. She told them to not make themselves conspicuous in town, and to meet about a mile west of town at midnight. Her local friend (Casey, the gunslinger) went straight to Jabral and asked for a day job, for which he was paid a whole gp. Jabral had employed the young lad in the past, and thought he'd make a good apprentice, if he stuck to it. Besides, Abbie loved the young man.

It was a cold slap in the face when Casey realized it was Jabral's place they were robbing. But he noticed Cimri held her sap and not her blades, so he hoped the job would go off with no deaths. Turns out he could not keep Abbie from barking and alerting Jabral. The other party members - having no ties to the dog - hacked at her viciously. With tears in his eyes, he moved in ended her barks and attacks on his fellow robbers. Jabral locked himself in his office, cursing the day he ever trusted Casey. The door was forced open and Casey was the first through. He caught sight of the rage, betrayal and fear in Jabral's eyes as the tanner shot Casey with a heavy crossbow. The gunslinger returned fire, but left the building while his fellows waded in for the kill. During the search of the office the "potters" showed up with their nightly haul. They were surprised to see Casey, but he convinced them everything was fine and they should finish their delivery. Once inside the compound the gate was closed behind them and the inquisitor shot the old man down. The old potter wife cradled her husband in her arms and pleaded to Casey "Please! Help us!" "It will be all right", Casey said, as he pointed his pistol at her.

I think this nearly broke the player of the gunslinger.

Sovereign Court

very eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil of them... well done! :P

(+9 Rebellion Points by the way... keep track of those! :) )

Sovereign Court

I just want to say my group is having an absolute blast with this AP. Thank you Rob and Wes (and all the others!)

This is probably one if not "the" most fun AP I've run/played.

It helps to have lucked out with excellent roleplayers, but the structure, pace, plot, events of Chapter 1 are just amazing to behold even during GM prep-time. I just love how you guys have provided in-depth NPC descriptions and motivations. Makes the GM's job a breeze. Everything is also neatly tied together.

Well done!


So, as all of my players have decided what they want to play in Hell's Vengeance. At least one of them wants to be a Hellknight armiger.

I'm wondering now if a Hellknight can swear the Hellfire Compact and later on could become an Agent of Thrune. To what rank do you think a Hellknight could rise, before the conflict of interest becomes to big to go on? Or is the concept of serving a noble house completely against the rules of being a Hellknight? Could this decision hinder an Armiger's path to becoming a Hellknight?

Dark Archive

So I combined the encounters at Fort Estazano, which mixed results. I'm running it for 2 different groups with wastly different experience and roleplay.
My casual group( 2 experienced player, 2 still learning the ropes and 1 complete newbie) only lost one person in that battle due to poor tactical decision.
My serious group(all veterans) ended up TPKing and I still don't understand why, except maybe that they're all squishy? I had to reset the encounter from the start where they did things differently and that time they didn't lose anybody.
So ya, be careful with this one.


Hyamda wrote:

So I combined the encounters at Fort Estazano, which mixed results. I'm running it for 2 different groups with wastly different experience and roleplay.

My casual group( 2 experienced player, 2 still learning the ropes and 1 complete newbie) only lost one person in that battle due to poor tactical decision.
My serious group(all veterans) ended up TPKing and I still don't understand why, except maybe that they're all squishy? I had to reset the encounter from the start where they did things differently and that time they didn't lose anybody.
So ya, be careful with this one.

Interesting, could you elaborate what you mean by "combined encounters"? Did you put the manticore up onto the treevillage with her ranger, or what do you mean by that?

Dark Archive

Gratz wrote:
Interesting, could you elaborate what you mean by "combined encounters"? Did you put the manticore up onto the treevillage with her ranger, or what do you mean by that?

More like the courtyard fight. With Jexxi springing the door shut, starting to take sniping shots through the small cracks in the wall and the manticore getting out to fill them with spikes.

Sovereign Court

Fellow GMs,

My group is having a blast with this AP!
Quick Question: other than accelerating the sequence of events on the Rebellion Tracker, have any of you unleashed any other consequences upon your players for accruing Rebellion Points? My players have accrued quite a lot... (i.e. thinking about potential Archbaron anger, open rebellion in the streets, PCs being attacked by a mob of angry citizens, etc.)
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Regards,
PDK

Sovereign Court

Addendum: at which number of Rebellion Points would you say a GM would be entitled to use mobs of villagers (i.e. troop stats from Hell's Rebels, which are basically a swarm of humans i.e. auto damage each road a PC is in one of the crowd's square...)

I think that would be the simplest, most meaningful way to alert the evil PCs they've gone wayyyy too far at some point along week 3 on the Rebellion Tracker...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I sped up the timeline making each block on the rebellion chart be a.m. and p.m. This cut the rebellion in half timewise and gave the possibility of having more than one event a day.

In book two (Wrath of Thrune) I added a despair point to everything.

Sczarni

Hi All,

I'm in the process of reading the first two books in the AP before our group will actually start making characters.

Our group consists of 7 players and a GM (we rotate GM's). I'll be running this AP.

I'm concerned with the size of our party as the AP is designed for 4 PC's. It's one of the main reasons we don't play too many AP's, but this one really caught my attention, so I'd like to run it.

We all work and I work unusually long hours, so I don't have a lot of time to invest in altering the campaign.

What would you guys do to adjust the CR in order to compensate for the larger than typical Party?

My thoughts are to simply weaken the characters by having them start with the elite array for stats, rather than a 20 point buy.

Would that be enough?

Sovereign Court

Do nothing. Split the xps amongst all players. They will level slower. It will get harder as they go.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Do nothing. Split the xps amongst all players. They will level slower. It will get harder as they go.

That tends to backfire a lot...

- - - - - -

Raise enemies hit points, slightly increase enemies stats, add a few pests/minions, prevent the 15 minutes adventuring day when possible, etc...


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Were there are multiple foes increase their numbers but keep the stats the same. For bosses give them max hp and maybe a stat increase, if they are creatures the Advanced template helps. You should also if concerned about difficulty make sure the players get a 15 pt stat buy (which is what AP's assume), giving them better stats than that and having more players will mean a lot more problems with difficulty.

I am afraid I normally end up re designing a lot of opponents but that is at least partly because I enjoy it.
I use Herolabs which you can get stats for all the creatures in and that makes it quick and easy for me to add a level , adjust spells etc.

Adjusting spells, customising tactics and making sure the players have to deal with lots of encounters befor resting can also increase the difficulty


Krodjin wrote:

Hi All,

I'm in the process of reading the first two books in the AP before our group will actually start making characters.

Our group consists of 7 players and a GM (we rotate GM's). I'll be running this AP.

I'm concerned with the size of our party as the AP is designed for 4 PC's. It's one of the main reasons we don't play too many AP's, but this one really caught my attention, so I'd like to run it.

We all work and I work unusually long hours, so I don't have a lot of time to invest in altering the campaign.

What would you guys do to adjust the CR in order to compensate for the larger than typical Party?

My thoughts are to simply weaken the characters by having them start with the elite array for stats, rather than a 20 point buy.

Would that be enough?

My group's size varies from 5 to 7. Most of the times there 6 players present though.

Here is how I adapted: Point buy 15 (last campaign I used elite array, but my players wanted more flexibility, so we switched), adjust HP (often to 75%), important encouners get the advanced template (for example in this book the Angel Knight). The biggest problem is action ecenomy, so if there are battles against small groups of enemies, like for example when fighting the deputy sheriffs, I would 1 or 2 more, so the action economy evens out a bit.

I wouldn't apply all these adjustements to all the encounters, but rather pick and chose the encounters you want to feel meaningful and challenging and spice them up accordingly.


Do note that Purple Dragon Knight's idea isn't entirely bad, it is mainly bad early on, at the lower levels, but might work well at higher levels.

Sczarni

I want to have to do as little tinkering as possible. So with that in mind I will go 15 point buy, increase # of foes for certain encounters, and do my best to limit the 15 minute adventuring day... The only issue I see with that last part is that the rebellion tracker assumes 1 event per day...

The action economy is easily the biggest challenge. A party of 6 gets 50% more actions than a party of 4...

Sovereign Court

Krodjin wrote:

The only issue I see with that last part is that the rebellion tracker assumes 1 event per day...

The action economy is easily the biggest challenge. A party of 6 gets 50% more actions than a party of 4...

Rebellion tracker: the whole 21-day schedule is not about fighting that much. There are fights, but WHAT the PCs do during those fights is much more important than whether they are mighty or not (hint: the fights are basically cakewalks, but see their RP meter go WAYYYY up if they kill rather than immobilize/use nonlethal as part of their arrests...)

Sovereign Court

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Addendum: at which number of Rebellion Points would you say a GM would be entitled to use mobs of villagers (i.e. troop stats from Hell's Rebels, which are basically a swarm of humans i.e. auto damage each road a PC is in one of the crowd's square...)

I think that would be the simplest, most meaningful way to alert the evil PCs they've gone wayyyy too far at some point along week 3 on the Rebellion Tracker...

Shameless bump on this... we've seen various troop stats recently, and I'm looking for recommendations on the best one to throw at the PCs if they raise the Longacre RPs a bit too high. Thanks!


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Addendum: at which number of Rebellion Points would you say a GM would be entitled to use mobs of villagers (i.e. troop stats from Hell's Rebels, which are basically a swarm of humans i.e. auto damage each road a PC is in one of the crowd's square...)

I think that would be the simplest, most meaningful way to alert the evil PCs they've gone wayyyy too far at some point along week 3 on the Rebellion Tracker...

Shameless bump on this... we've seen various troop stats recently, and I'm looking for recommendations on the best one to throw at the PCs if they raise the Longacre RPs a bit too high. Thanks!

My group has 21 points on day 13, the day just before the execution is going to happen (considering how their last public appearances went I expect them to land around 30 points after that).

I will build a troop based on the "Longacre Rioters", because I think my group has earned themselves a stronger reaction from the crowd. I should be able to post my hombrew troop in the next couple of days, if that helps.

The problem is I can't use Riley Kels as the Angelknight, because they cut out his tongue for "spewing and spreading the rebellious mindset". I think I'll replace him with one of the deputy sheriffs. Has anyone other suggestions?

Sovereign Court

Gratz wrote:
The problem is I can't use Riley Kels as the Angelknight, because they cut out his tongue for "spewing and spreading the rebellious mindset". I think I'll replace him with one of the deputy sheriffs. Has anyone other suggestions?

Since the helmet covers the whole face, I'd have Riley use Ventriloquism spell to word out the words he wishes to use. Or some other bard trick / illusion spell... hehehe

Sovereign Court

Gratz wrote:
I will build a troop based on the "Longacre Rioters", because I think my group has earned themselves a stronger reaction from the crowd. I should be able to post my hombrew troop in the next couple of days, if that helps.

Hmm... I think the "House on Hook Street" module has a decent troop I can use for this: (although this might be too tough...)

sub this for angry longacre residents i.e. they are all veterans:
DRUG-ADDLED RABBLE CR 6
XP 2,400
CN Medium humanoid (troop, human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +15
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 natural)
hp 65 (10d8+20)
Fort +5, Ref +12, Will +4
Defensive Abilities troop traits
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (3d6+4)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks garbage barrage
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 25
Feats Ability Focus (garbage barrage), Alertness, Combat
Reflexes, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes
Skills Intimidate +10, Perception +15, Sense Motive +3
Languages Common
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Garbage Barrage (Ex) The rabble can unleash a fusillade of
broken bottles and improvised projectiles as a standard
action. This attack takes the form of up to two lines with a
range increment of 20 feet. These lines can start from the
corner of any square in the troop’s space. All creatures in
each of these lines’ areas of effect are hit for 4d4+4 points
of bludgeoning damage each (Reflex DC 20 half). The save
DC is Dexterity-based, and includes the bonus from the
troop’s Ability Focus feat.
Development: When reduced to 0 hit points, the mob
disperses, leaving some survivors to flee and others injured
or disabled among the slain. You can use the beggar stat
block (Pathfinder RPG NPC Codex 256) to represent these
individuals. All are aware of the bounty on the PCs’ heads
and can reveal the exact location of Moses Greeley’s hideout
(area F), telling the PCs that it’s “under the Red Oliphaunt”
if intimidated or otherwise coerced.


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The Glorious Reclamation added Meth to the mix then. :-D


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Hmm... I think the "House on Hook Street" module has a decent troop I can use for this: (although this might be too tough...

This looks like a great start, but I'll tone it down a notch. The stats on that troop are a bit to high for a group of level 2 characters.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Since the helmet covers the whole face, I'd have Riley use Ventriloquism spell to word out the words he wishes to use. Or some other bard trick / illusion spell... hehehe

That actually gave me a fun idea. I'll still have one of the deputy sheriffs as the Angelknight, mostly to deliver the speech, but I'll add some antics and drama, that Riley can add with illusions and such.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Addendum: at which number of Rebellion Points would you say a GM would be entitled to use mobs of villagers (i.e. troop stats from Hell's Rebels, which are basically a swarm of humans i.e. auto damage each road a PC is in one of the crowd's square...)

I think that would be the simplest, most meaningful way to alert the evil PCs they've gone wayyyy too far at some point along week 3 on the Rebellion Tracker...

In reading through the module, I felt the town's reactions were way under-sold for the amount of mayhem the party would likely create. They straight-up murdered the tanner and the old couple. Only the directive from the Archbarron about "still wanting a town to rule" prevented another mass murder at the Last Stand tavern. I re-worked the deputies encounter; 4-on-1 in the deputies' favor. Waited for the party to split up (WHY do they ALWAYS split up?) and caught one at a shop. The deputies put a hood over the PCs head (not before he saw them, though), bound him, took his stuff, told the PC he smelled like the tannery, and they knew what he did, then left him in the pillory with a sign that read "GUILTY" draped over his neck.

Any mobs of villagers will be in violation of the decrees, so the anger would have to be pretty high to justify it. Maybe I'll decide to have the townsfolk take up a secret collection to hire some do-gooders to run the party out of town.


Valkir wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Addendum: at which number of Rebellion Points would you say a GM would be entitled to use mobs of villagers (i.e. troop stats from Hell's Rebels, which are basically a swarm of humans i.e. auto damage each road a PC is in one of the crowd's square...)

I think that would be the simplest, most meaningful way to alert the evil PCs they've gone wayyyy too far at some point along week 3 on the Rebellion Tracker...

In reading through the module, I felt the town's reactions were way under-sold for the amount of mayhem the party would likely create. They straight-up murdered the tanner and the old couple. Only the directive from the Archbarron about "still wanting a town to rule" prevented another mass murder at the Last Stand tavern. I re-worked the deputies encounter; 4-on-1 in the deputies' favor. Waited for the party to split up (WHY do they ALWAYS split up?) and caught one at a shop. The deputies put a hood over the PCs head (not before he saw them, though), bound him, took his stuff, told the PC he smelled like the tannery, and they knew what he did, then left him in the pillory with a sign that read "GUILTY" draped over his neck.

Any mobs of villagers will be in violation of the decrees, so the anger would have to be pretty high to justify it. Maybe I'll decide to have the townsfolk take up a secret collection to hire some do-gooders to run the party out of town.

There may be other Evil beings around, and they might not like all the rucus the PCs are causing.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I'm thinking of playing up the conflict between Darellus Fex and Rhona Staelish, as the two moral poles of Longacre -- the Thrune center and the anti-Thrune center. I'm thinking of giving them a romantic past as teenagers in Longacre -- maybe a Snape/Lily Potter type thing where it was a triangle and Rhona ultimately chose another, or a completely unrequited one where Fex's affections were never returned and he grew bitter and vengeful towards Rhona over the years. Then maybe (gauging player comfort levels) insert an abusive sexual relationship between Fex and Cimri as he takes revenge on Rhona through her niece instead. I'm thinking ultimately Cimri gets pregnant by Fex and perhaps in a campaign epilogue when the child arrives she names it "Rhona". Just throwing ideas around.


Samy wrote:
I'm thinking of playing up the conflict between Darellus Fex and Rhona Staelish, as the two moral poles of Longacre -- the Thrune center and the anti-Thrune center. I'm thinking of giving them a romantic past as teenagers in Longacre -- maybe a Snape/Lily Potter type thing where it was a triangle and Rhona ultimately chose another, or a completely unrequited one where Fex's affections were never returned and he grew bitter and vengeful towards Rhona over the years. Then maybe (gauging player comfort levels) insert an abusive sexual relationship between Fex and Cimri as he takes revenge on Rhona through her niece instead. I'm thinking ultimately Cimri gets pregnant by Fex and perhaps in a campaign epilogue when the child arrives she names it "Rhona". Just throwing ideas around.

What are you trying to accomplish with that though?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

More texture to the fabric of Longacre.


Samy wrote:
More texture to the fabric of Longacre.

I don't see how that adds much though, especially as these NPCs already have compelling backgroundstories (at least Cimri and Fex). Sure you could expand on Rhona, but I don't think that's the way to go.

I mean why would Fex appoint her to be the sheriff in town, when they have bad blood between them?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Look, we don't have to make a big debate about it all. I'm just throwing ideas around and if somebody gets some inspiration out of it that's great and if nobody does, no harm done. Debating every suggestion whether it's a good idea or not is wasted space.


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Samy wrote:
Look, we don't have to make a big debate about it all. I'm just throwing ideas around and if somebody gets some inspiration out of it that's great and if nobody does, no harm done. Debating every suggestion whether it's a good idea or not is wasted space.

These threads are more about discussion on and minor changes to the AP... If you want to run it in a 3.5 x Pathfinder hybrid game and change a s***load of things, you should just make your own topic for that.


Combatbunny wrote:
Unit 01 wrote:


And I have some question. What do you think about uniting encounters in this campaign part? I just can’t find any logical explanation why encounters in Fort Estazano are separated...

And what about Court? Every it inhabitants are standing in clear line of sight of each other, due to distance, open space and Kels ringing alarm bell like crazy. By logic it’s single encounter that starts from rain of arrows and spells on lower ground party. How am I supposed not to wipe party?...

My group is tackling the court this coming weekend and I also have similar worries/complaints.

At Fort Estanzo I actually did combine the encounters. It was going poorly for the pc's until the necromancer blinded Nalinga. Then they turned it around.

At the Court of Spears though I have similar concerns regarding how the fights are spread. I agree that logically this should be one big almost continuous fight. Which would be, with all the creatures as written, an unwinnable fight for a party of level 3 PC's.

Specifically, I can't get passed the idea that the LG paladin of Iomedae god of honor, valor, glory, heroism etc- is content to wait until all of her compatriots are dead before engaging the fight. She should be the first into the battle not the last. There might be something to be said for her needing to get her armor on (assuming she was sleeping) but that's about the only reason I can come up with for her not immediately taking an attack on the Court seriously. I mean how often are they attacked here? I doubt its commonplace enough for her to shrug it off as a minor incident.

So yes, I've been trying to come up with a more logical flow to the encounters but have not yet come up with a good plan. I'll let you know what happens I suppose.

And I guess I'm curious, how did you guys end up playing the court? Your post is old enough that it probably happened already.

My party just finished Act 2, and are about to start Fort Estazano and the Court of Spears next session. I have 5 PC's, with a possible 6th guest player, so with these concerns you both have mentioned I probably won't alter any of the fights even though their APL will bump up.

I would assume that you would have to hand-wave Lencia's strategy in the same way she reconciles using the trap door on the PC's. "Iomedae is a god of strategy, not stupidity." In general, the Glorious Reclamation seems like their lofty goals sometimes override their alignment requirements. Probably another reason why the rest of the Iomedaeans in Golarion are in no rush to lend a hand to this uprising.


I'll share how I ran the Court of Spears, maybe it can be helpful to some of you guys. A quick preface though: My group consists of 7 players and most of the time only 5 are a present at a time. For the Court of Spears, all 7 players were present, so I ran it tactically as difficult as possible, without adding anything.

My group found out about Fort Estazano from Bo Gramel, so they scouted the Fort and eliminated all threats with ease, left again, because they didn't manage to find the tracks. They left the dead body of Jexi, as a sign, so the rebels knew what was coming for them. They returned to Longacre with new information, they gained from the note they found.

Archbaron Fex needed some time to find out what this Court in the notice means (none of my players knew about it), so I ran the resurrection event meanwhile. The day after, the archbaron was able to provide a map. So they set out to find the rebellion. On the way had some uneventful, unchallenging random encounters (bear, giant tick, owlbear).

My group isn't sneaky, so they were noticed the moment they entered the Court. They handled the wolves, with a well thrown piece of meat, but the bard started playing his lute, to warn the rest (they cut out his tongue). Before the bard could do anything else, he was shot down from his post, but the archers all took position and started firing. The group split up, most of them went up the leader, one tried to climb the rope and one went into hiding for a few rounds to heal, because he ate some arrows.

Once up the ladder, they've split up even further: 2 went to the lift, to get the rest of the party up and most importantly their animal companions. The other 3 pushed over the bridge, where they fought the leaf feys, while under heavy fire from the arrows.

They tried to regroup in front of the trap bridge, where the Angelknight was waiting, with Knight's Calling as a readied action. She cast the spell on the antipaladin, he resisted, but his perception was so bad, that he went on anyway. Tey triggered the trap, which bought more time for the archers to let their arrows rain.

Meanwhile our Bloodrager managed to climb after many tries the rope and got to the platform, where the bard was standing. From there he duelled another archer, who stood on the platform connected to this one by rope. He won that fight quite quickly and moved to the archer's platform, where he was met by a tree-striding dryad.

The rest of the party regrouped in front of the trapped bridge and they used a grappling hook and a second rope, to make it easier for them to cross the bridge, but still many of the manage to fail terribly and fall down again and again... After a while the wizard managed to put up the bridge again and the rest was able to cross safely.

From there on out they moved in a quite linear way from room to room and jumped over to the platform, where the dryad was fighting the bloodrager and killed the dryad. They fought the hound archon, who teleported just in time to the Angelknight, to make one last time.

When they saw the Angelknight, the antipaladin charged and sprung the trap again and landed on his nose again, but the last two didn't pose much of a thread.

So if people don't want to read all this mess, here is TL;DR:

The court of Spears is a very challenging, but glorious clusterf!*! in which the biggest challenge for my group was the environment. I don't think I ever dealt as much falling damage ever in a "dungeon".

2 players went below 0, but none died, but keep in mind I ran the encounter with 7 players.

So I have a question on how to finish this book: Rhona Staelish survived the mess in the Court of the Spears and the event, where she goes to the house of ashes to meet Cimri hasn't been triggered yet. Would you still run the event or should she just disappear and join the rebellion and maybe reappear in book 3?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gratz wrote:
So I have a question on how to finish this book: Rhona Staelish survived the mess in the Court of the Spears and the event, where she goes to the house of ashes to meet Cimri hasn't been triggered yet. Would you still run the event or should she just disappear and join the rebellion and maybe reappear in book 3?

Depends on how much Cimri has mattered to your group...


Cole Deschain wrote:
Gratz wrote:
So I have a question on how to finish this book: Rhona Staelish survived the mess in the Court of the Spears and the event, where she goes to the house of ashes to meet Cimri hasn't been triggered yet. Would you still run the event or should she just disappear and join the rebellion and maybe reappear in book 3?
Depends on how much Cimri has mattered to your group...

She was quite crucial at some points, but a liability at times. Also, the way I played Cimri, she gave no hint of changing her opinion about Rhona, as she enjoyed her position of power way to much.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That encounter really only matters (in terms of story) because it's Cimri's final break with her aunt- if that plot hasn't really been going on, then I'd say you could give it a miss- Cimri vanishes from the rest of the AP anyhow, so having Rhona take a powder makes sense- she could always turn up later, blaming the PCs for whatever happens to Cimri (killed by rebels, killed by Fex, killed by the PCs, living happily as a vicious Thrunite thug, whatever)


has anyone dmed with a player with absurd bluff/diplomacy yet? im gonna be running this ap soon and im wondering if one of my pcs super high bluff/diplomacy is gonna cause problems in the future

Sovereign Court

Declindgrunt wrote:
has anyone dmed with a player with absurd bluff/diplomacy yet? im gonna be running this ap soon and im wondering if one of my pcs super high bluff/diplomacy is gonna cause problems in the future

The group I GM has an absurdly abrupt and irritating low Cha necromancer (old age; and he roleplays the old crankiness perfectly!)

In contrast, we also have a smooth, diplomatic dread gnome cleric of Mahathallah. He steps in when the old necromancer is making things a bit too hard for the party.

Great interactions! I let them both roll with it. It's like watching a movie! :)


To be fair the character in question is a asmodeus advocate/devilbane priest cleric of asmodeus, he's got 19 wisdom but 10str, 12 dex, 12 con so well see how long he lasts lol.

For reference I'm using a 20 point buy

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

How old, exactly, are the veterans in Longacre?

p.63 wrote:
Longacre girds itself in faded military trappings, the worn uniforms and tarnished regalia of hundreds of former soldiers caught up on both sides of the war that cast their nation into the grip of diabolism. More than three-quarters of a century after the hostilities ended, Longacre remains a dumping ground for Cheliax’s unwanted veterans

If it's been 75+ years since the hostilities, and let's assume those taking part were 15+ years old, you'd imagine pretty much everyone has died off? Are 90+ year old people common in Longacre? Even in modern times they're a rarity, let alone in medieval times where life expectancy was less.

Are 90+ year old people common on Golarion in general? Is Longacre an exception with a really high life expectancy?


Chelaxians are the best at everything, even aging.

Shadow Lodge

Samy wrote:

How old, exactly, are the veterans in Longacre?

p.63 wrote:
Longacre girds itself in faded military trappings, the worn uniforms and tarnished regalia of hundreds of former soldiers caught up on both sides of the war that cast their nation into the grip of diabolism. More than three-quarters of a century after the hostilities ended, Longacre remains a dumping ground for Cheliax’s unwanted veterans

If it's been 75+ years since the hostilities, and let's assume those taking part were 15+ years old, you'd imagine pretty much everyone has died off? Are 90+ year old people common in Longacre? Even in modern times they're a rarity, let alone in medieval times where life expectancy was less.

Are 90+ year old people common on Golarion in general? Is Longacre an exception with a really high life expectancy?

The key word is "remains." The tradition of dumping veterans in Longacre may have started at the end of the Civil War 75 years ago, but Cheliax has conducted both internal and external military campaigns since then. The Goblinblood Wars, for instance, only concluded 14 years ago. And as I'm sure Abby will want to remind you, Cheliax's contribution to that conflict was both substantial and glorious.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Samy wrote:

How old, exactly, are the veterans in Longacre?

p.63 wrote:
Longacre girds itself in faded military trappings, the worn uniforms and tarnished regalia of hundreds of former soldiers caught up on both sides of the war that cast their nation into the grip of diabolism. More than three-quarters of a century after the hostilities ended, Longacre remains a dumping ground for Cheliax’s unwanted veterans

If it's been 75+ years since the hostilities, and let's assume those taking part were 15+ years old, you'd imagine pretty much everyone has died off? Are 90+ year old people common in Longacre? Even in modern times they're a rarity, let alone in medieval times where life expectancy was less.

Are 90+ year old people common on Golarion in general? Is Longacre an exception with a really high life expectancy?

The key word is "remains." The tradition of dumping veterans in Longacre may have started at the end of the Civil War 75 years ago, but Cheliax has conducted both internal and external military campaigns since then. The Goblinblood Wars, for instance, only concluded 14 years ago. And as I'm sure Abby will want to remind you, Cheliax's contribution to that conflict was both substantial and glorious.

And there were conflicts with the outside, losing colonies, former vasal states/countries becoming sovereign, etc...


So, umm, I don't like the Tannery encounter. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Instead, I was thinking of the first part of the AP behind a raid on a bunch of Glorious Reclamation sympathizers hiding in the woods, after Razelgo/Fex whoever puts a bounty on them. Cimri wants to cash in, but realizes she can't Rambo a whole bunch of Iomedan rebels herself, so she asks the PCs for help. And so it begins.

These people wouldn't be legit, full-blown members of the Reclamation. They're a bunch of scrappy, ragtag local militia who are acting in solidarity with them. Basically a "jayvee team" to borrow a recent political phrase.

What kind of NPCs should I build to represent these rebels, and how should I stage the encounter?

Sovereign Court

Axial wrote:

So, umm, I don't like the Tannery encounter. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Instead, I was thinking of the first part of the AP behind a raid on a bunch of Glorious Reclamation sympathizers hiding in the woods

Umm... you should keep reading until the end of the first book! ;)


Okay, whatever.

This is a different group of sympathizers. They're inspired by, but not directly affiliated with the Angel Knight. Or they heard about her and decided to start rebelling on their own.

My point is, I want to start the AP with a raid on pro-GR people instead of a raid of some Tannery, since the former is more relevant to the themes and ideas of the adventure path.

I mean, the very first thing you do in Hell's Rebels is fight militias associated with House Thrune (which forecasts what the overall goal of the adventure is) so why wouldn't Hell's Vengeance start the same way, but against anti-Thrune militias?

Shadow Lodge

Axial wrote:
My point is, I want to start the AP with a raid on pro-GR people instead of a raid of some Tannery

Louslik is pro-GR, in outlook if not in activity. He's exactly the sort of person to which the GR in Longacre is trying to appeal. What you need isn't a change of setting, but a change of hook. Rather than a two-bit burglary for gold, have Cimri's mission be explicitly political - a terroristic shakedown on behalf of the State.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Louslik is pro-GR, in outlook if not in activity. He's exactly the sort of person to which the GR in Longacre is trying to appeal. What you need isn't a change of setting, but a change of hook. Rather than a two-bit burglary for gold, have Cimri's mission be explicitly political - a terroristic shakedown on behalf of the State.

In my game Louslik was able to escape the tannery and I had him join the Glorious Reclamation, not for his fighting skills, but more for his crafting skills. I gave all the Glorious Reclamation members a masterwork armour, if they were wearing medium armour, to account for Louslik's skills.


Gratz wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Louslik is pro-GR, in outlook if not in activity. He's exactly the sort of person to which the GR in Longacre is trying to appeal. What you need isn't a change of setting, but a change of hook. Rather than a two-bit burglary for gold, have Cimri's mission be explicitly political - a terroristic shakedown on behalf of the State.
In my game Louslik was able to escape the tannery and I had him join the Glorious Reclamation, not for his fighting skills, but more for his crafting skills. I gave all the Glorious Reclamation members a masterwork armour, if they were wearing medium armour, to account for Louslik's skills.

Speaking of him:

My party used diplomacy and charm person to get the money.
So, I like that idea of him running to join. He would be angry. I had mine an old war veteran (Ace Bolt 2).
I guess He'd bring the dogs.

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