Klladdy's page

Is there any structured or planned way that Paizo will be addressing things that come up over the course of the play test? At what point will Paizo give people an idea of the kinds of changes that are in the works regarding issues that people bring up.

It would be helpful to have a better idea of what has been "heard" by Paizo and what is just an opinion by members of the community. It would help us move past known issues to things that still need testing. Are things like that going to addressed together (all Alchemist things, all Paladin things, etc.), all at once, or periodically?

Has anyone tried to do a tank build by completely ignoring bombs and just using a crap ton of (healing) elixirs?

Pumpkinhead11 wrote:

I wasn’t asking about splash damage. I was asking about how the Empower Bomb Alchemist Class Feature works, and am using Alchemist Fire as the example.

So with the 7th level version doing 3d8 on a successful hit, i’m looking to see how much damage the ‘3 Persistent Fire damage’ will end up doing when it activates.

.

The 3 persistent will do... 3 damage.

It's really not that impressive to do 3/round

And sadly it applies only to the main target--on a hit.

One thing I find interesting in other classes is that when they get a spell pool or ki pool, their feats increase their pool size. The Alchemist gets a lot of options on how to spend their RP without also getting a increasing pool size.

Alternate suggestion:
Advanced Alchemy: The Alchemist can prepare level + Int common items up to his level during his daily preparations (no batches/half-batches). These items count as infused and do not consume RP from the alchemist.

Replaced Studied Resonance with Studied Aim.
Studied Aim: The Alchemist applies his Int modifier to the damage of any thrown item (including bombs, but not their splash damage--save that for a feat).

Make Quick Alchemy use a points form a pool of Spell Points instead of from his resonance.

When the Alchemist unlocks mutagens, they may be created using his Advanced Alchemy feature.

Replace Expanded Resonance with Expanded Alchemy:
Expanded Alchemy: The Alchemist treats all alchemical items as if are infused for the purposes of feat interaction and bomb damage progression. The Alchemist still must spend RP when using items in this way.

This way the Alchemist reasonably has some staying power with other classes--given how bombs are compared to cantrips, special attacks, etc. from other classes without their additives, this should keep the alchemist relevant without breaking balance since they still have to pay for their items--making their downtime crafting actually meaningful for bombs.

Yeah, it's sad that it would be the case. The Wizard at level 4 gets the ability to be a almost-spontaneous caster or the bend reality to his whims at 20. The alchemist *might* be able to make his regularly crafted bombs, which he spends money on, not worthless--oh, and he has to give up the philosopher's stone to do so.

I finally took a look at the cleric and I was kind of miffed that the cleric gets three resources to work with beyond RP in addition to cantrips. She is in every category better than the Alchemist.

Alchemical items are completely broken, value wise, atm.

As an example: 10x minor elite is of life is 30gp for 10x 1d6

A wand of heal (1) is 27gp for up to 10x (1d8+4) as an aoe

Possible solutions (imo) :

A) completely remove RP cost.
Pros: They are non magical solutions, they are vastly inferior to magical items of approximate cost, doesn't make sense to have it, etc
Cons: won't really help the alchemist class, he'll still have to spend all of his wbl on a like 3 bombs

B) reduce cost to 1/10th
Pros: makes sense power wise (a wand of heal on a party of 4,healing just 2 each time heals for 6.3/gp while elixir would heal less but more efficient 11.5hp/gp but only 3.5/rp-2xaction
Side benefit : makes poisons a tiny bit more accessible to rogue
Cons: alchemist still can't use his own items that he crafts in his downtime (not enough RP)

C)
Actual solution (imo) :
(B) + everything alchemist makes, regardless of method, is infused for himself.

Pros: now he has 2 paths: use his wbl and downtime to prepare, still costly but gives him sustain. Gives him reasons to pick efficient Alchemy and sia. Makes alchemical items balanced to their magical counterparts (magical is still far better, alchemical are cheaper)

Alternately, make it a feat at level 6/8/10 to count all academical items as infused for the alchemist.

So I just saw that mutagens don't even work with Advanced Alchemy or Quick Alchemy since they are uncommon . . . RIP Mutagens

Alchemist First Look Review
Let me begin with the following caveats regarding this review: I am a new Pathfinder player who has looked over PF1 a couple of years ago but never played beyond a single one-shot, I have not yet played the class but have looked over it trying to understand its mechanics, and I have yet to play PF2 in any capacity yet. Below are my thoughts on the class based upon where I am as a player and as a potential GM. Having said the below, note I *still* plan on playing an alchemist because I like the class flavor--I want this class to be able to succeed as an interesting choice that adds to a party. Below is my subjective, raw opinion after pouring over the material for the last two days. Thank you Paizo for your work on this system so far. I like what I see for the most part and just think it needs some love.

The Good
*Flavor: The class, to me, has interesting and intriguing flavor of a gadget user in a sword-and-sorcery setting. The idea of either become an arguably-insane bomber, a crafty poisoner, or something of a shape-shifter is appealing.

*Bombs: The bombs are potentially an engaging, interesting mechanic with a lot of utility—particularly since they are tied to formulae which could become potentially highly diverse over time and there is no stated limited to how many formulae an alchemist can have (you can have multiple formulae books). This translates into potentially having higher level bombs which might then be multiplied—contingent upon the design choices going forward. Furthermore, more and more base formulae could grant further CC effects or potentially become buff “bombs” or healing “bombs” (which would be awesome!).

*Quick Alchemy: The ability to rapidly produce an alchemical item appropriate to the situation is both interesting from a both a roleplaying and mechanical standpoint.

The Opportunities
*Infuse: This mechanic essentially keeps the Alchemist from double paying for his own alchemy, however, it does make the characters double pay for assisting their party whereas the buffs and heals of others largely do not require resources from both.

*Bombs: Bombs, in general, required a great deal of investment to seem attractive at this point. Between the fact that they do not inherently deal +Int damage, have really-short range, cause splash damage to allies (which makes investing in the splash damage *also* complicates), create action-economy issues with drawing them, and eat into the scarce RP pool. Beyond that, the bombs do negligible damage given their cost if crafted using downtime making them functionally largely useless.

*Skills: Alchemists supposedly represent a highly capable proto-scientist with a variety of capabilities. In PF2, however, he is represented as a skill user only slightly better than a wizard despite his significant advantage over the wizard in 1E. He is only better in terms of skills because he has one more signature skill in medicine. In comparison to others, he will likely only have more because other class simply do not need to invest in intelligence (but if they did most of them would destroy him in terms of starting proficiencies and in number of signature skills). Given his modest capabilities in other areas, his lack of diverse skills makes him potentially painfully inadequate to most situations.

The Disappointments
Quick Alchemy: The fact that all alchemy modifications and most feat enhancements strictly affect items created via Quick Alchemy, it seems to exasperate resource issues deeply embedded in the class based upon the observations of others and what one expects from the class. This may not be the case once all class feats and options are released, but initially that seems to be the case, which is rather aggravating given that the additive key word hints that not all bomb modifications would be via Quick Alchemy.

Quick Alchemy: Seems to only functionally work with a handful of items given the action requirement to make and use the item combined with the limitation of 1 turn duration and only common items (i.e. no mutagens). Please make Enduring Alchemy more worthwhile—maybe that it increases the duration by half your class levels + your int mod. That way poisons make sense (which is important given that Powerful Alchemy is limited to items created via Quick Alchemy).

Poisons: The alchemist needs a better way to increase the save DC on poisons. Between the fact that low level poisons do not do significant damage and level appropriate poisons already have a save DC at or higher than the alchemist’s class DC, it seems odd that the ways to heighten poisons save DC limit your ability to use lower-level potentially interesting poisons (such as the drow sleep poison).

Suggestions:
*Throwing: Make the alchemist inherently apply his Int modifier to the damage of *all* thrown items, including un-infused bombs.
*Quick Bomber: Change Quick Bomber to allow the alchemist to draw bombs as a free action—potentially once per turn.

*Bombs: Reduce the cost of bomb formulas or give the alchemist a way to stock up on “mundane” bombs at little to no cost such as up to a cap of Int+level (perhaps starting at level 5). Leave most of the improvements to infused bombs but include formula for more powerful bombs.
*Infuse: Make infuse remove the RP cost all together. Given how problematic elixirs will be to administer during combat, this should make it superior for out of combat healing and inferior for in combat healing and give the cleric legitimate competition as a healer.

*Skills: Increase the number of starting skill proficiencies that the Alchemists has at level one to at least 5+Int. This will give him a few less than the rogue, whose rapid increases will keep her the skill master.

Klladdy wrote:

Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.

I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.

Compare black lotus to an 9th, 10th level spell. Because that's what alchemist gets.

Basically, someone can print the alchemical fire cost as 1 billion go cost, that doesn't make it Worth that much in actual usage though.

In effect, most low level alchemical items need their cost reduced to 1/10th of what they are now (like 3sp per vial) if they are supposed to substitute for what every other class does atm at will.

Or, better yet, give 0 RP "lesser items" at will for the alchemist (like cantrips)

As for the original question, considering that Advanced Alchemy says that they ignore reagents, I take it that it is free. Class would be literally unplayable if not, it's already borderline useless after lvl 7 or so.

Replacing spellist with purely mundane items that for some reason still cost magic essence to activate wasn't balanced well (still, that's what a playtest is for)

That was my take as well. I wanted to make sure that I had that right. On a related note, does Quick Alchemy even work for most poisons because the action cost to apply the poison and then deliver it? Does the 1 round aspect also make an applied contact poison inert after 1 round if nobody is affected before then?

Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.

I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.

Hello all,
I wanted a point clarified regarding an Alchemist's Advanced Alchemy daily preparations. According to the text:
" . . . You don’t need to attempt a Crafting check to do this, and you ignore the number of days typically required to create the items and any requirements of alchemical reagents. . . ."

Does this mean that they ignore the gold requirements to create their daily allotment of alchemical items, that they ignore the rare reagents that crafting mentions with regard to settlements in the crafting section, or both of the former possibilities? Based upon the text, it is unclear.

If they are required to pay gold costs, I can see this being a significant disadvantages. On the other hand, given how powerful the later alchemical formula are (particularly the common poisons such as Black Lotus extract), I can see it being problematically powerful.

Edit: Quick Alchemy clearly removes the monetary costs of alchemy.

Thanks for pointing out the occultist. I did not know about him.

Hello all,
I really want the summoner to work because I love the idea, but every thing I've read online seems to argue that the summoner is really broken. I'm a brand new GM, so I get to make rulings on how to make it work. This is the fix I'm thinking about ruling in my home game. What do you guys think?

Replace the summoner with a wizard archetype.
Summoner (Wizard Archetype)
HD=d6
Core Attribute = intelligence
+Augment Summoning feat
-Scribe Scroll
+Eidolon (not associated class features from the summoner)
-Arcane Bond
-Bonus Feats
+Arcane School: must choose conjuration (summoning school focus), must choose an additional opposition school
Conjuration (summoning spell school)
+Spontaneous Summoning (sp)
“A summoner may lose a prepared spell in order to cast a conjuration (summoning) spell of the same level or lower.”
-Acid Dart (sp)
+Summoner’s Expertise (sp)
“At 8th level, you may prepare conjuration (summoning) spells in spell slots 1 level lower than their normal level, but you still must be able to cast them at their normal level; this reduces their spell levels accordingly but has no other penalty. When using Spontaneous Summoning, you may not reduce the spell level in this way.”
-Dimensional Steps (sp)

Thanks for the advice. I went with a few modifications on the beginner box. Namely, I built characters for people based upon the kind of character they wanted to play and that they are working for a high level wizard who sent them on a fetch quest. It worked out great, but they only managed to make it into the first room (barely); it was rather fun and everyone was have a great time.

Again, thanks for the suggestion. Keeping it a dungeon crawl is keeping it pretty simple.

Thanks for pointing that out. I've looked over the box and will definitely keep that in mind. I felt like the box was suitable for the beginnings of longer thing as opposed to a one shot. Am I wrong about that?

I can see what you mean. I had most of the details in my head so as I reread the post I realized that I would need to rework things.

Instead, I'm going to make the wizard disconnect from reality--specifically in that his tower is in rather immediate danger without him really grasping the situation. They part will be summoned into a tower currently under assault by rats lead by goblins.

The party will descend into the "wine cellar" which would be rest of the tower. There they will fight off groups of goblins and rats, retrieve the wine, and return to the wizard, who was completely unaware of the danger, but he will extravagantly reward them for their valor (for retrieving the wine).

Hello all,
With the recent sale of Pathfinder content via the humblebundle, I finally got into the game. I've had some interest in role playing for a while and the sale pushed me to finally start. I'm going to be playing with a group of friends, who are also new to role playing, and I'll be GMing.

I need a bit of advice for building my first session, which will probably be a one-shot. I had preordered the beginner box, but it does not look like it will be able to make it before the end of school, so that option is out. I plan on making this as simple as possible for new comers (I am one myself).

This is what I was planning on (setting is not Golarion):
My heroes are transported from our gaming table to another plane, where they find themselves in new bodies with new memories; they are incarnate as the shells of heroes previously long dead (I'll be pregenerating a few characters for them to play with based upon their preferences). They were summoned by a short, doping looking wizard with an over-sized head. He proclaims them his heroes . . . and sends them downstairs to the "wine cellar" to fetch some drinks to celebrate their rebirth.

This wizard is actually a goblin wizard who incarnated them on a whim and casting "goblin vision" on them using magic given to him by more powerful wizards who empower other creatures for their own amusement. (perhaps a wizard equivalent to reality tv).

In the cellar, the see a bunch of strange things that they cannot really understand: jail cells filled with happy creatures laughing, restrained creatures being tickled with feathers, formal tea times with gnomish creatures, etc. Once the reach a the actual wine cellar, they encounter a group of rats (dire rats, rat swarms, rats, and a level one ratman summoner/ratman bard with pipe of the sewers in a couple of separate encounters) who had burrowed into the cellar. They fight them, but as the reach the boss, the boss warns them that it is not as it appears. They can either listen to him or kill him. He has a scroll of greater dispel magic which breaks "goblin vision". They realize where they are and can either side with the ratman (who was on a mission to scout an opening) to flee or to fight the wizard; if they killed the ratman, they can leave (through the hole), or they can fight the wizard.
I still need to build out the specifics, but what do you all think?

My current line of heroes are:
Cognak the Barbarian (dwarf barbarian)
Pinacola'adda (drow rogue)
Mar the Teeny (halfing/gnome cavalier, w/ his house-trained pony of many colors)
Jhin N'Tonnikk (human wizard)
Grog (half-orc cleric of Leona* (War & Strength))

*Leona is the goddess of glorious battle and righteous war (war, strength, glory, protection, repose (a good death), and nobility) and her weapon is the warhammer. I have not yet assigned her subdomains.