Kierato's page

I would say only in pockets, normal backpacks, etc. Including gloves of holding as they shrink the item down and hold it in the palm, not an extradimensional space.

Crimson Jester wrote:

Unless you feel that the classes are unbalanced, and some do, then there is little to no reason to use individual experience charts for different classes. In 1E, of the worlds previously most popular and oldest roleplaying game, the individual charts were a method of somewhat arbitrarily building s semblance of balance betwixt the various classes. With the different mechanics of Pathfinder this does not hold up quite as well, and as such you can and should use the same XP chart.

But if I did use it , would it totally unbalance the game? My thoughts is it would also allow for multi-classing , allowing the fighter mage to truely be played once again. I understand we have the magus, which is a very good class, but what if someone wished to play the classic fighter mage elf. in the current system it doesn't work. Just thinking out loud, and picking your brain.

Fighter mage elf?

I considered using an alternate form of multiclassing, where you could follow the normal rules and use the fast exp progression or create a gestalt (combining the best parts of 2 classes) and use the slower exp progression (but not be able to use the normal multiclassing rulse). Never tested it though.

It's in the Bestiary 1.
PRD.

Lots of good ones listed, but has no one mentioned the Ioun Torch?

Just as good as an ever-burning torch but leaves both hands free.

Ioun Torch was mentioned higher up. I prefer everburning string of beads.

multiclassing?

Cad archtype?

Two weapon fighter? Bonuses to AC, hit, and damage when you full attack with 2 weapons. The ability to standard attack with two weapons, reduced penalties for 2 weapon fighting. All in all, a class that emphasizes high dex, light armor, and mobility.

IMO, the free hand fighter is supposed to be the fighter equivalent of the swashbuckler, esp seeing how it goes with the duelist.

Can we move the munchkin vs role player to another thread, or at least spoiler it?

The spell Burning Gaze comes in handy for this. Its range is personal, so you can cast it on your familiar, and then it can ride around on your head.

The most dangerous hat.

My turn for a pop culture reference!

Azten wrote:

Other than the fact is was a twists on what you said, which sounded like you were, despite encouraging the houserule, saying this Binder wasn't a Binder in a way that sounded like an insult because it didn't match up with an artist's representation of the Binder you like?

Its acceptable for each of us to have our concept of the class.

Agreed, here's mine.

The cone can be boosted up to 40 ft. The range isn't that bad considering the iconic adventure takes place in cramped quarters.
Selected states that with a spell that deals energy damage there is only a touch attack or ranged touch attack (decided when the spell is cast). Also it can be boosted to chain to multiple targets (like chain lightning).

Master Chemist, advanced player's guide prestige class. You gain a mutagenic form that you enter when you use your mutagen or have a chance when you take damage. It is Ideal for The hulk, provided you are willing to role play the rage quality. Also, your mutagenic form must have a different alignment and appearance than your normal form.
PRD

I can relate, GODS can I relate...
I never found a way to stem the off color joke that just dragged out the game. Trying usually led to ticked off PCs.
1: Controller (battlefield control, debuffs), Striker (high damage, low targets), Support (healing, buffs), Expert (skills, trapfinding) There are bard and ranger archtypes for trapfinding, maybe alchemist, I'd have to double check.
2: It varies on the setting. There were regions in both Faerun and Ebberron that supported necromancy. In the end, It's up to you and how the player runs it.
3: Good F-ing luck.

Somatic Weaponry, FTW!

Kierato wrote:

TV Tropes

Of note is the "Stormwind Fallacy," which states that a min-maxed character and a well-roleplayed character are not mutually exclusive: an effective character is not necessarily something that gets in the way of narrative. Similarly, purposefully weakened characters may not always be better for the narrative.

I find that when you(or I) advance up the min-max scale, you begin to sacrifice skills (abilities, feats, powers, etc) that support organic, well rounded characters for favor of one that support mechanical strength. You can still have fluff and roleplay without the mechanics to back it up, but it means less. (e.g. The fighter "who was a blacksmith", with no skill points in craft or profession skills, instead maxed out perception, swim, and climb)

But that's just the thing: not every bit of fluff has to be represented on the character sheet by investment of character creation resources. If you never, ever plan on rolling Craft(blacksmithing), what's wrong with just saying that the character was a blacksmith before adventuring and leaving it at that? I'm not saying that leaving those skills empty is the "right" choice. I'm just asking why it's the "wrong" choice.

"My character is a blacksmith, but learned absolutely nothing from it." 1 rank represents aptitude in a skill, but most min-maxers will not even begrudge it that.

TV Tropes
Of note is the "Stormwind Fallacy," which states that a min-maxed character and a well-roleplayed character are not mutually exclusive: an effective character is not necessarily something that gets in the way of narrative. Similarly, purposefully weakened characters may not always be better for the narrative.

I find that when you(or I) advance up the min-max scale, you begin to sacrifice skills (abilities, feats, powers, etc) that support organic, well rounded characters for favor of one that support mechanical strength. You can still have fluff and roleplay without the mechanics to back it up, but it means less. (e.g. The fighter "who was a blacksmith", with no skill points in craft or profession skills, instead maxed out perception, swim, and climb)

I have difficulty finding groups in my area (the last gaming store that supported gaming groups dropped all of it for magic, the gathering) and the last group I was with and I have clashing personalities. Not to mention they are not(were not? my brother still plays with them and they started up 3.5) fans of d20.
I know what you mean about too many character concepts...
The DM would often over compensate, but he is a min-maxer as well. The last time I DM'd for them I asked them not to min-max, and they didn't!

If I'm building for fun, I start off with a concept, usually inspired by a fictional character, cool concept based off of a fictional character, or when reading the rules I notice something that would make for an interesting character and build a concept around that. These characters are usually non min-maxed.

If I'm building to join a group, I start off by finding out what the group could use, then I find out the degree of min-maxing the group does (I hate creating a character that cannot actually do anything because everyone else at the table is a munchkin), then come up with an interesting character to fill the role.

Druid Build

Here's my arteficer.

Druid. Venomous snake animal companion, serpent totem, the poison spell (with spell focus and heighten spell). A high wisdom is a must.

Anyone have any critique or comments on the changes?

I dropped the reflex save bonus and kept Bravery since anyone called a Daredevil has to be fearless.

Pared down the skills list and went ahead with 4 skill points per level.

Limited the exchange of feats to 1 rogue talent and 1 advanced rogue talent at 10th level or higher.

The Daredevil is a bard archtype...

Seriously, no one? Robe of useful items. The rope, 10 ft pole, dagger, and 4d4 misc items!

Take levels in magus and use arcane pool to add elemental damage?

Does this mean, to use it as a whip you need EWP (exotic weapon proficiency) (whip) and EWP (scorpion whip), or just EWP whip?

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I like the worm that walks, however as they left him to rot make it maggots. That should mess with them a bit.

CR of the target creature +2? That's close to perfect, actually -- he'd be CR 12, a very suitable opponent for them in a level or two when they're APL 9 or 10.

The only tricky bit here is that they killed him in a cold (arctic) setting, without a lot of worms around. Hmmm...

Doug M.

While worms may not be common, the arctic does have insects. From bees( of all things) to beetles an Arctic region is far from lifeless. Any insect will do really.

Alaska has a really bad mosquito problem.

Also, any undead that can create spawn (like my aforementioned mohrg). have it go around killing off a village that the PCs like, the emotional impact would be far greater than a physical threat. And it could spark a quest for a miracle spell to bring them all back.

There is also the mohrg to consider. Someone who kills a lot of people while alive comes back as something like this. Base CR 8, It wouldn't take much to advance it to be trouble. Also, anything they kill immediately rises up as Fast Zombies, perfect for a former necromancer.

tried my hand at one. it felt weak, so i bumped its vision up to dark vision

Knife
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha
Dark Vision 60'
Base Speed: 20 ft.
Size: Small
Weapon Familiarity (You are proficient with daggers, and weapons with knife or dagger in the name)
You are a dagger: You can turn one of your hands into a knife blade that deals 1d3 piercing or slashing damage, 19-20/X2 Crit. This is a natural weapon.

I would suggest weapon finesse instead. I had some other in my note book (like flask of acid). Can't find the note book though.

Kierato wrote:

Weapon Of Destiny

Requirements: BAB +3, Artifact Race (weapon only), Knowledge (Religion) 5 ranks

HD d10
BAB +1
Good Saves: Fort, Ref, Will
Class Skills: Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Perception, Sensemotive
Skill Points: 2+int mod

Umm, why Knowledge(religion)? Craft(Weapons) would seem a better requirement.

Seems kinda weak. Maybe add +1 caster level at 3rd, 6th, and 9th. Every other level would be too much with the HD, good saves, and BAB. Perhaps 4th lvl for Lesser Power, 7th lvl for a 12k gp or less Power, and Greater Power at 10th lvl.

When I created these races, the storyline behind them was that they were mundane (or magical) items granted human form and sentience by a god of artifice or forge to fulfill some unknown purpose that they are drawn too. Hence, knowledge (religion). Getting a free +10 weapon that cannot be lost or sundered is pretty good, along with full BAB, and all good saves. I will consider what your suggestions though.

I've FAQ'd it to. Also, it's only a fourth level spell for druids. Sorcerers are supposed to get 1 spell of each level (1st through 9th).

I would like to see a class that copies animials and then magic creatures for its fighting style taking on the aspect of what it is mimicing

Blue Magic? (final fantasy reference)

You treat it as a fourth level spell, not fifth.

Kierato wrote:

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

So...

Souldbinder (Witch Archetype) ...

If you go this route, I would suggest summoner archtype instead of witch, but that's just my opinion.

I went for the Soulbound Servant as the Demon Weapon and the Witch as the Meister(kinda).

I am pretty sure I saw a Summoner that could call a weapon somewhere. I created a Summoner who called forth weapons and armor myself when the APG first came out, but I never loaded it to my Google Docs and the HDD crapped the bed so I am SOL. Was pretty easy to create. I made 4 varieties; celestial, infernal, first world, and dark tapestry. Sounds like I have a project to recreate...

I created an archtype like that too, just weapons though. You started with a base form for the weapons and spent evolution points to upgrade it.

I put the prestige class here. I'll add (to this thread) some of the feats I made to go with the race soon.

This prestige class goes with these race.

Weapon Of Destiny
Requirements: BAB +3, Artifact Race (weapon only), Knowledge (Religion) 5 ranks

HD d10
BAB +1
Good Saves: Fort, Ref, Will
Class Skills: Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Perception, Sensemotive
Skill Points: 2+int mod
Lv) Benefits
1) Alternate Form, Awakened +1
2)Awakened +2
3)Awakened +3
4)Awakened +4
5)Awakened +5, Lesser Power
6)Awakened +6
7)Awakened +7
8)Awakened +8
9)Awakened +9
10)Awakened +10, Greater Power

Alternate Form (Su): You can turn you entire body into a weapon of your type. In this form, you are considered an intelligent magic weapon. You can resize yourself to small, medium, or large as a move action. In this form you cannot move on your own (unless you have an intelligent item power that grants you a movement speed). You possess empathy, speech, and senses (120 ft); see page 533 core rule book. You possess your own mental ability scores, but no physical ability scores (do not adjust statistics). You retain your own HP, Saves, Feats, Class features, and skills (though some may not be usable due to your form) and a hardness equal to your HD. If you can cast spells, you cannot do must use still spell and eschew materials to do so while in this form. You cannot be enchanted by an outside force, but see Awakened below. This is considered a polymorph effect.

Awakened: Your natural weapon (granted by your race, not other natural weapons) gains a +1 (or higher) enhancement bonus, as if it were enchanted. You can trade out these bonuses when you gain a level for special weapon properties (Flaming, Keen, Etc). You may not possess a bonus greater than +5, as normal. These bonuses carry over into your Alternate Form. If you possess more than one of your natural weapons (from the dual wielding feat), only one of them is enchanted.

Lesser Power: At 5th level, you can grant your natural weapon (granted by your race, not other natural weapons) a power from the intelligent item powers list (page 534, core rule book). This power must have a base price modifier of 5,000 gp or less. This power carries over to your alternate form. You cannot choose "item has 5 skill ranks".

Greater Power: This functions as Lesser Power, but you may choose one ability of up to 10,000 GP. You cannot choose "item has 5 skill ranks", "item has 10 skill ranks", or "item can change shape into one other form of the same size".

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Kierato wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

What about a Demon Weapon class?

I created races based off of this a while back. I'll look to see if I posted them.

That would be appreciated, as would a class if anyone wants to make one.

So...

Souldbinder (Witch Archetype) - rough draft, needs better formatting
Witch is bound to a creature that can transform into a weapon. Witch would know spells but not need the familiar and would not get the patron spells. Changed out the word Demon so it could be accessable to good characters.

Soulbound Servant (Su): A Soulbound Servant is a creature that is bound to the Witch and can be changed into a Soulbound Weapon. The type of Weapon is chosen with each transformation. The Servant is a NPC with basic stats, NPC levels equal to the witch level minus 1 (min. 1), and all gear coming from the Witch's funds. The Servant can spend hours/day equal to 1/2 Witch level (min. 1) as the Weapon. The Witch can command the Servant to transform into the Weapon, as a standard action, a number of times per day equal to 3 + Witch's Charisma modifier. This ability replaces a Witch's Familiar.

If a Soulbound Servant is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 day later through a special ritual that costs 500 gp per witch level.

Create an Unwilling Servant: The Witch must enact a ritual taking 24 hours to complete. The creature gets a Fort save (DC=10 + 1/2 Witch's level + Int modifier) at the end of the ritual to resist the transformation. The creature must be bound and placed in a cauldron that has been filled with components (herbs, chemicals, etc) worth 1000 gp times the creatures Challenge Rating (min. 1000 gp). If the creature escapes the cauldron before the ritual is complete, the ritual fails and the components are used up.

Soulbound Weapon A Soulbound Weapon counts as a masterwork weapon in addition to any Weapon Abilities the Witch knows. A...

If you go this route, I would suggest summoner archtype instead of witch, but that's just my opinion.

Awesome! ^-^

I think the grimoire should have the option to 'erase' a spell though.

Good idea, I'll consider that.

since bows should need wis for perception, may i recommend -2 cha, instead of wis?

or +2 dex +2 wis, - 2 cha

Edited the original post, -2 con as ranged combatant and seemed more balanced.

In response to another thread. I had a prestige class that also let the weapon races turn completely into their weapon, but it is not typed up yet. I'll add it later.

Grimoire
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int
Normal Vision
base speed: 30 ft
Size: Medium
Sholar of Magic: +2 Knowledge (Arcana) and Spell Craft
Spell-Like Abilities: If you Intelligence is 11 or higher, you may cast 3 0-level spells per day. These spells must be drawn from the Wiz/Sor class list.These spells are chosen during character creation and cannot be changed thereafter.
You Are a Spellbook: You may scribe 100 pages of spells onto your skin. These are faintly glowing runes that swirl across your skin as you will. THese spell cost the normal amount to scribe. If you skin is ever completly removed or destroyed, the spells fade and are lost, even if you recieve a reginerate or similar effect.

Holy Symbol
-2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis
Normal Vision
base speed: 30 ft
Size: Medium
Sholar of Magic: +2 Knowledge (Arcana) and Spell Craft
Spell-Like Abilities: If you Intelligence is 11 or higher, you may cast 3 0-level spells per day. These spells must be drawn from the Cleric class list.These spells are chosen during character creation and cannot be changed thereafter.
Blessed: You gain a +1 racial bonus to all saving throws.
You are a Holy Symbol: For all intents and purposes, you are a holy symbol devoted to a specific god, chosen during character creation and cannot be changed thereafter.

Axe
+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Wis
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Weapon Familiarity (You are proficient with Throwing Axes, Hand Axes, Battle Axes, and Great Axes, and you Dwarven Waraxes and Orc Double Axes as martial weapons)
You are an Axe: You can turn one of your hands into a Axe blade that deals 1d6 slashing damage, 20/X3 Crit. This is a natural weapon.

Bow
+2 Dex, +2 wis, -2 Con
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Weapon Familiarity (You are proficient with all bows.)
You are a Bow: You can turn one of your hands into a bow that deals 1d6 piercing damage, 60 ft range, 20/X2 Crit. This is a natural weapon. Arrows not included.

Flail
+2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Cha
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Weapon Familiarity (You are proficient with Light Flails and Heavy Flails, and you treat Dire Flails as martial weapons)
You are a Flail: You can turn one of your hands into a flail that deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage, 20/X3 Crit. This is a natural weapon.

Sword
+2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Cha
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Weapon Familiarity (You are proficient with short swords, long swords, rapiers, scimitars, great swords, and you treat two-bladed swords and bastard swords as martial weapons)
You are a Sword: You can turn one of your hands into a sword blade that deals 1d6 piercing or slashing damage, 19-20/X2 Crit. This is a natural weapon.

Armour
-2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Stability: +4 CMD vs trip and bull rush
You are a Suit of Armour: You gain a +2 armor bonus to AC.

Shield
+2 Con,-2 Int, +2 Cha
Normal Vision
Base Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
You are a Shield: You can turn 1 arm into a shield granting you a +1 Shield bonus to AC and a shield bash attack (1d3 bludgeoning, 20/X2 crit). You do not lose your shield bonus to AC while shield bashing.

EDIT: These were created with Voodoomikes race builder.

EDIT: Bow attribute bonuses/penalties.

Kierato wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

What about a Demon Weapon class?

I created races based off of this a while back. I'll look to see if I posted them.

That would be appreciated, as would a class if anyone wants to make one.

If I put it up already, I couldn't find it, so I'll put it up in another thread.

Cheapy wrote:

Legora wrote:

SmiloDan wrote:

I'm bored: give me ideas for a new base class I can design!!!

I'd love to see a take on a druid that was for constructs, not nature. So repair spells, Machine form, etc

The machine shape ability would have to be "Roll out!".

This has been done quite a few times though. HGG's Clockworker is similar.

I haven't seen one that handles the construct shapeshifting.

Would love to give it to my Warforged in the eberron pathfinder game I'm playing.

I have a prestige class (some where) that gave warforged druids the ability to become animal effigies (construct template in 3.5).

These go with the mage hunter farther up. Sorry about this.

True Aegis
At 20th level you may choose from the list below when selecting an aegis.

Spell Resistance: You gain SR 35, you can raise or lower this spell resistance as a free action.

Anti Magic Strike: When declaring a dispel strike, the Mage Hunter can spend 3 uses of dispel strike to create a skin tight area of antimagic (as the spell antimagic field) around the target instead of dispel magic. No magic cast on the target will function, nor will the target's magic items. The target cannot use spells, spell like abilities, or supernatural abilities for the duration of the effect.

The only protections it provides is what a shield normally would - a bonus to armor class. Nothing more.

(Except, because it is a force effect, incorporeal things can't ignore it like they would a normal shield. You would still get he AC bonus against incorporeal foes.)

+1

Vinland Forever wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Let's....let's not even start on Forgotten Realms elves. Okay?

Do tell. I know nothing of FR elves.

Hiding to carry this OT

** spoiler omitted **

You left out winged elves.

I'd suggest looking up a class from heroes of horror (3.5) I can't remember the name, but it was basically a divine wizard.

I like the idea of a Rogue not being a major damage dealing force in combat. It's not necessarily the only method of contributing to combat.. I mean, just look at how the Wizard is considered (better to control and SoD/S instead of damage).

Thug builds feel like they really could use Fighter levels, which to me tells me a Thug build feels like it should be more an archetype or feat tree for Fighters and other full BAB classes (like a way to get Sneak Attack for those classes).

A rogue that can save or knock out, save or entangle, blind, deafen, etc, at very low levels and for long periods makes for a more interesting combatant alongside the damage dealers.
Especially if you could do this against multiple targets at once...

I mentioned this before (Not sure if it was this thread or not) that I was working on a game when PF was in beta. I gave rogues "sneak strikes" where you could trade out d6s' of damage for a variety of status effects.

i thought crossblooded had too harsh a penalty in the spells known department for what basically amounted to mix and match. with that penalty, i would feel i deserve the full benefits of BOTH bloodlines.

especially when there is a 3 feat chain that gives away the best parts of entire bloodlines to everyone.

why can't we have a 3 feat chain that gives oracle mysteries in the same way?

it's easy enough to rule that the same reveleation doesn't stack twice.

Because revelations aren't bloodline powers. There are a wider variety of them, and they can lead to some impressive (and broken) combinations, like my earlier comment on the rogue (or ninja) with wave sight.

Researcher
HD d8
BAB: +3/4
Good Saves: Will
Skills: Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 8+int mod
Weapons and Armor: Researchers are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor.
1) Varied Lore
2) Expanded Research
3)
4)
5)
6) Expanded Research
7)
8) Sudden Inspiration 1/day
9)
10) Expanded Research
11)
12)
13)
14) Expanded Research
15)
16) Sudden Inspiration 2/day
17)
18) Expanded Research
19)
20)

Varied Lore: The researcher spends her time studying items, tomes of forgotten lore, races, and virtually everything else there is to study. At each level, the Researcher chooses one ability from the following list to represent her most recent field of study. Spell like abilities use the researcher's primary intelligence for calculating saves and the like; and class level is the effective caster level. For an ability that requires a save that are not spell like, use 10 +1/2 the researcher's level+the researcher's int mod.

Expanded Research: At 2nd level, and every 4 levels there after, choose 1 cross class skill, it is now considered a class skill for you.

Sudden Inspiration: Once per day at 8th level, you can choose 1 Varied Lore that you do not possess (or an option of a varied lore you do not possess) that you meet the prerequisites for and attempt to use it. You can use this ability twice per day at 16th level.

In my worlds.

Halflings are like Dragon Lance Kender

Dwarves are standard but there is some complex stuff about race variation

Elves are elves but you only see male elves running around the world. that is because female elves are dryads that live in the heart of elven forests. this is of course a deep secret the general world does not know.

humans are humans.

Gnomes are basically the dwarf/halfling equivalent to half-elves. as neurotic as halflings but tend to focus on a specific goal like dwarves do. the race long ago formed its own community where they play an important role in the economy of the world. since they breed true (unlike half-elves and half-orcs which are generally sterile) they came to be generally known as a new race.

all goblinoids are one race and the stats of different races are used to represent them at different ages from goblin to hobgoblin to bugbear and something stronger than that and sometimes Oger stats are used for truely large ones close to dieing.

Orcs are a race that exists on a different continent (more like a very large island) they are similar to mongol hoards raiding and waring with each other until some becomes strong enough to unite them and usually leads them on a great war against the civilized lands.

Clarify, please. Are you saying half-elves/orcs are typically sterile in your campaign, or in general?

Still nothing... still not buying Paizo.

Checking in, still nothing. Still not buying Paizo.

PEACE

Sadly this fiasco ruined my love of Paizo products. I've moved on to other games. I can reflect fondly of my old days with 1E but really feel no inclination to give them more money after getting burned on this kickstarter.

Checking in after several months and still seems like a big fat nothing. At least I've stopped blowing money on Paizo stuff after this debacle.

Even if I get the minis I probably won't play. This has left a stink on the game for me. Sadly a stink that's permeated all of Paizo. Good gaming to you who are able to overlook getting baited and ripped off. For me, the idea of playing just reminds me that I'm a victim in this mess.

J-Bone wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

Even if Ninja Division had been sailing along flawlessly with a lively resin line, we would still be working with WizKids on Starfinder Battles.

Shame you guys just didn't wait instead of exposing your fan base to risk.

In that alternate universe we’d still be here, it’d just be a thread on why they didn’t go with someone else other than Wizkids to get Starfinder minis sooner.

and I'd be $500 richer and playing Starfinder

I keep coming back to this thread hoping for some progress.

I stopped my subscriptions due to Ninja Divisions stunt and don't participate, organize or GM Starfinder games anymore.

I thought the scenarios where fantastic and was so invested in the story. But now I have only anger when I hear of Paizo. I really hope that'll change someday, so I keep coming back here to this thread.

That's pretty much where I'm at too. Five Star GM, ran/played in most of the APs, now I can't wait for the last of the AP games I'm in to end so I can wash my hands of the company. Sad... I used to buy all this stuff.

Believe it when I see it...

No way will I back this after getting ripped off on the Ninja Division Starfinder minis and crap results from Goblinworks. What a shame as this is the best of the APs but I've just lost my trust for Paizo crowd sourcing.

Good Luck y'all

Buy him a beer? Paizo should be buying all us beers for the $400 we are all out thanks in large part to their getting in bed with and endorsement of Ninja Division.

Is Erik going to post or is this another vague promise we have to wait on?

What does it matter if he does? We aren't getting our minis or our money back. Hearing a "sorry, my bad" at this late date won't change that.

Burro-crat wrote:

And to be clear, it wasn't "ND or nothing,"

It was go with ND and hopefully get the minis or guaranteed get no minis at all, I wasn't implying otherwise so don't put implications in my mouth.

You don't know that for sure. There has never been mention of other potential companies that produce minis except WizKids, Reaper and ND. So perhaps you shouldn't put implications in Paizo's mouth.

It'd be nice to know more on how this happened. Were those other companies approached? If so why did ND become the winning bid? As a grieved party, I kinda want to know what my loyalty to the company was worth.

All this to say - until and unless Paizo come out with full disclosure on what the process looked like from beginning to end (from decision-making around partner selection, through to where we are today) we have no real way of knowing what happened and the rest is (perhaps well-educated, perhaps not) speculation.

Sure we have to speculate on the details that went into the decision to go with ND. However what we did have at the time of the Kickstarter was a very clear trail of failure from Ninja Division. Yet Paizo still got into bed with them. So like you, I need to know why this decision was made and why they felt comfortable and secure enough in this company to encourage their fans to give a significant amount of their money into it.

To me it seems pretty crap to make a really bad gamble on a company with a really bad history of failing to complete kickstarters with your fan's money and good will. I guess that's just the kind of company Paizo is now. A better move would have been to wait, help a better company get to the point where they would have been better positioned to complete this and then make a deal. That just seems like good buisness sense.

And as to:

And a bunch of forum threads complaining that Paizo didn't have minis made.

Which would have been infinitely better than a thread full of fans who are complaining about lost money and no minis. Ask Paizo staff, I'm sure they'd tell you which they'd prefer.

If everyone had got their minis this wouldn't be a problem. But that's not what happened. Paizo gambled their reputation and fan base's money on a shady company. Now most of us have nothing and those that actually do have something waaaaaaay overpaid for it, especially so considering the reports of crappy quality.

^^^^ and animosity of one's fan base.

It should have been. Better planning and judgement would have avoided this mess.

I keep seeing the response to anger over the selection being boiled down to Reaper and WizKids said no, so they had to go with ND. Actually, I would say no they didn't. If the first two options are out, going to known crooks isn't the logical third option. Its a really bad option however you cut it. Maybe option 3 should have been to hold off on miniatures until something came along that didn't endanger the money and good will of your fan base.

Licenses shouldn't be given to companies that are creating barriers of entry or limiting the use of a game. Doing so limits how that game can be enjoyed. For people like me who play at Cons and game stores, this is a barrier to the enjoyment of the game. That said, I don't know how the final draft of the character sheet for 2E will look. Maybe it'll be super simple and a third party product like Herolab won't be a major part of the play-ability of the product like it is for 1E. But the intense math of Starfinder, from what I've seen, does benefit greatly from a product like this. However that is limited in this level of limited functionality which will impact my consumer choices going forward.

I don't think ND is competent enough to even find a lawyer on their own.

Competent enough to bamboozle Paizo into thinking they could handle this KS.

Between this and the Ninja Division KS... just what the heck Starfinder....

When I read "but both turned us down. Reaper has their own lines for Sci Fantasy minis and WizKids did not have the sculpting bandwidth for the project. So we turned to Ninja DIvision and they were thrilled with the opportunity." from that link posting, Jeff Alvarez's comments, it seems to imply they went to ND, not the other way around. Good grief, solid fail on the due diligence of researching a company from Paizo.

Yeah I'm in the $400 deep and nothing camp and am suffering serious diaper rash from this. I keep checking in on this and appreciate the communication but between this KS scam and a switch of edition, I might just be out of the Paizo business which is a shame as I've had a blast playing Pathfinder in the past. Right now I just got a nasty bitter taste in my mouth.

Based on this BS I'm not going to jump in on Pathfinder backed Kickstarters. I suppose Kingmaker worked out but its just too unreliable now. Had eyes on that Seoni statue but no way.

Well its Thursday and still no word from ND. They said in the last update:

"the remainder of our US/Domestic orders are 100% packed and ready for shipping next week. We are shipping all available Wave 1 miniatures."

I guess that means sometime... Still tomorrow I guess.

Aholes! If they delivered on their promises they wouldn't get "toxic" feedback!

September and still nothing.

Second Darkness really REALLY needs something like this. The maps for that are ridiculously bland for such exotic locations as the Darklands and Kynonin.

The community of Half-X breeding with itself for generations is somewhat problematic from a biological standpoint as well. Nowhere in the setting are there described large social entities beyond communities here and there along the fringes of Belkzen as areas where half-orcs have kept to themselves. So if several generations are going by with that closed group inter breeding within its happening... well bad things.

Yes please, get rid of Alignment

^^ TRUTH

Get that alignment nonsense out of the game! If I never have to endure a "you can't do that because my interpretation of your alignment says so" debate, there will be many more sunny days in my future.

I want to play an Orc Jide!

As for the complaints that folks don't want to lose their Half-Orcs, I reckon a racial feat or something else can go a long way to bring that back. That would emphasize the rarity of their creation while still giving an avenue to their play-ability.

Having the ability to play dark or light is the determination of the GM. IMO the Core book should be as neutral and inclusive as possible. To that extent it should avoid rapey implications so as not the be seen as distasteful to those who maybe want to play an all ages game. Once you get that game and you want to turn it into J.R.R. Martin's dark twisted fantasy by all means, but I reckon Paizo should try to avoid imprinting that into a Core rules book by highlighting a race made most often by undesirable circumstances.

The OP requests making Orcs playable which I'm assuming means Core as thats the book soon to be published.

From the Beastiary description of the Orcs:

An adult male orc is roughly 6 feet tall and 210 pounds.
Orcs and humans interbreed frequently, though this is
almost always the result of raids and slave-taking rather
than consensual unions. Many orc tribes purposefully
breed for half-orcs and raise them as their own, as the
smarter progeny make excellent strategists and leaders
for their tribes.

So it seems pretty clear that rapey orcs is built into the Orc sauce.

I put up a post expressing the same thing before and it got closed. But to chime in again, I also agree that Half-Orcs are a ridiculous measure. It also does imply an aspect of rapeyness that is well out of date. If you look at the write up for the orc:

"Orc tribes are feared and reviled throughout the planes for their depravities and their penchant for destruction and mindless violence. The vast majority of orcs are easy enough to identify by their jutting jaw, yellowed tusks, squinting eyes and hairy, brutally muscular frames. Their skin color tends to run the gamut from blue-black to grey, with putrid slime green being the most common. Many tribes of orcs however have adopted traits unique to their own species through interbreeding with other races, adaptation to climate and terrain, and the intervention of evil magicians or other-planar powers."

we see a stress on depravities as well as a penchant for interbreeding. Sounds like you don't have to read too far between the lines to get the sense that sexual assault far outweighs love matches for the creation of Half-Orcs.

That said, I also like the idea of playable orcs as it might allow for the development of the race beyond what I just quoted from the write up. If you want me to believe that the Golarion orcs are just a bunch of deprived violent xp bags who are capable of being sweet lovey dovey half-man-makers, than show me instead of telling me otherwise.

With this new edition coming out, might we do away with the Half-Orc and its rapey implications? I know people are going to chime in about orc love but really, the implications have always been that these children don't come from the most loving of circumstances. Perhaps we can replace them with full orcs as a PC race?

To the Pathfinder staff

Thank you.

You've given me a game that has enabled me to have so many hours of joy, I can't begin to count. I'll be with you when the new edition launches, you've more than earned my faith in your ability to deliver a great product.

I would love to see the Paladin remain Lawful Good. Thing of it is, they are one of the most powerful classes because they have to live up to an RP ideal that is difficult. Thats what keeps the power of the class in check.

I'd really love to see a 1-5 lvl set in Tian Xia. This would be great for those characters who want a feel for something Asian to get their jumping on point, esp for those PFSers.

Y'all did a great job scrambling to accommodate a large number of players. My friends and I drove back to New York with a lot of good stories and new memories of PFS play. While ConnectiCon has its issues with sign-ups, you guys did a great job with GMing and PFS organization. Look forward to more trips out your way.

Is that Orko?

All of you n00bs can believe you're winning this AP all you want, but when I play it, there will be only one true KING OF TALDOR!... at least in my own version of the Golarion campaign world.

Sounds pretty cool! I'm really liking the ideas for the current and upcoming APs.

Book 5 of Kingmaker is a nice ending spot. Book 6 is fun, but a big departure from what was happening up to that point.

Giantslayer can end after book 2 which wraps up the Orc stuff or book 4 after you wrap up the Frost Giants who can be skinned as the masterminds.

My experiences running and playing the APs is that generally they work with a premise that the first and second, third and fourth, and fifth and sixth books are generally tied together. So running them as two book stories can generally work out pretty well.