Kennic's page

Which one of these four is the worst in your opinion?

A)Razmir
B)Abrogail Thrune II
C)The Umbral Court
D)Geb/Arazni

Malachi, Ciretose has stated he disagrees with Shallowsoul about a chaotic person being capable of holding a personal code. Ciretose is not the one who has claimed it is impossible for a chaotic person to hold to principle.

Also where have you found Ciretose declaring himself as lawful neutral? You keep stating that and I've not seen it.

But your logic is not sound. Chaotic people can certainly submit to an authority,if they agree with and trust that authority!

Chaotic people do in fact have the option of going along with laws they find reasonable but when they are in conflict with some aspect it is likely they will ignore it or rebel against it if they are sufficiently motivated by something they see as an unjust restriction.

I agree with Deadmoon's description of this disagreement as being one between minute variance in people's interpretations. In my experience when it gets to this elemental level it is hard to get either side to back down.

Why are people so horrible?

I believe the case is made that for certain paladins, and the people who enjoy playing them, the code is what defines their brand of conduct that is "good".

Others who are good may well disagree

I'm not thinking of a normal PC, well technically a stand in for a PC and someone who has been played.

This is how Merisiel actually behaves. This is an iconic example of a chaotic neutral character in Pathfinder, if perhaps one influenced strongly by her friends of other alignments.

She does not betray friends. She chooses at times to obey rules that do not discomfit her, yet she is also an unrepentant thief for her own gain and will stab people she thinks are mean or jerks.

A chaotic person can and will choose to do things that benefit others for the sake of themselves. They follow their hearts and minds, and don't necessarily act chaotically simply for the sake of chaos.

Even chaotic neutral people can have a set of lines they will not cross.

They can refuse to betray a friend or stab people they feel do not deserve it.

They can choose to obey laws that don't seem stupid to them.

Chaotic people are not proteans. They're mortals and therefore the average person of chaotic alignment isn't going to be totally random, or totally unpredictable.

A code need not be a formal written document, it can be as simple as unwritten or perhaps unspoken law.

They can follow a code of their own devising. In the terms of this thread, it would be personal, not adjudicated by a higher authority, but still a set of rules followed by a chaotic person by choice.

I believe what is being stated is that there isn't distinction.

Oh yes truly, but not mutually exclusive.

I'm really not surprised this argument has gone on this long without anyone giving ground.

Paladins are more stubborn than rocks.

*salutes the thread*

Hey there everyone.

Did the froghemoth win or did the dinosaur?

The frog thing definitely has the dinosaur in what looks like a deathgrip, but the dinosaur has taken some nasty chunks out. From the position of the head it would be easy for the froghemoth to lose the eyestalk.

Also while Valeros appears to not be having a good day at all in that picture would you have preferred to be the one in that Kyra hug?

I have no idea what this was taken from so I feel the need to ask.

This event.

Were you there or have you heard this story?

Exactly! And if they agree with whatever law, they won't be compelled to go against it just because 'it's a law!'

Did Ciretose or others actually state at some point that a chaotic person is inherently against all law?

I got the sense from reading certain that some people were misrepresenting the possible spectrum of chaotic action.

If no one has actually presented that position then I will stop discussing it.

I agree that a chaotic person isn't necessarily going to sit still for discipline to be enforced upon them by others if they think they know better, or that the law is stupid.

Personal law is not the same as a law that is adjudicated by someone else.

Having a code is not the same as following a code.

That still doesn't mean every position they take is going to be unpredictable.

Only a protean is that evershifting.

As well, if you have a code and live by it, aren't you therefore following your code?

Would you bet on whom the better shot is between Harsk and Imrijka?

If so, which would you back?

I believe the crux of this argument is that there are those claiming that one can hold personal beliefs that border on a personal law.

For example, I will point to Merisiel, who hates the thought of betraying a friend and would throw all her knives to a rust monster rather than do so.

Chaotic people can still hold principles, still possess lines they will not cross, even if they are not of Good alignment.

I think Westbrook needs a mouthful of those peppers and about half your knives at this point. Although that might be a waste of good peppers.

Did you go to the opera? Maybe you should go to another to take your mind off the horror.

Okay I just had another stroke of genius. Draw the Cyrillic characters with Paint or something then upload it to the internet.

Okay I had an idea. Are you in physical possession of this book still?

Do you have a camera capable of snapping a picture then linking it to the thread?

So could you identify it if someone linked or posted a picture?

Also, is it impossible from the dialect to identify the western neighbor?

Do you know what this place physically looks like on a map?

Can you appreciate the armor piercing potential of an estoc even if it is a longsword shaped thing probably more fitting for someone like Valeros, being that it is an ancestor of the delightful trophy you wield?

Having read about what happened in the Crypt of the Everflame, is there anything around I could look to in terms of later adventures that isn't the comic or something such as that?

Good.

Lounging in a big soft couch at a friend's place in Kintargo and eating spicy peppers.

To continue relaxing through the weekend and maybe go to an opera.

Yup.

Yup.

Mostly stuffy, but nice and predictable so you can play most of them like a harp. Assuming you know how to play harps. I mean paladins.

Huh?

I know you liked salty over sweet, but do you prefer salty or spicy flavors?

What percentage of your magnificent collection of stabbery and amazement was or is gifted by a friend, if any, or do you accept knives from friends?