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SirUrza wrote:
Kenku wrote:
Pg 14. Even though the Iconic has a Cloud Leapord, and there was some mentioning of a lower end cat, there are no Wildcats for a druid until level 7(outside of a cheetah...which may not fit that area).
It's a Snow Leopard actually and when they do her stat block for low levels she won't have it.

Well still, there should be a "cat" alternative to a wolf, say a small wildcat like a Bobcat or Lynx(or if thats low, a Mountain Lion).(If this is getting into opinionated stuff that should be in "Races and classes" ill move it.


This might just be me nitpicking, but anyway...

Pg 14. Even though the Iconic has a Cloud Leapord, and there was some mentioning of a lower end cat, there are no Wildcats for a druid until level 7(outside of a cheetah...which may not fit that area).


Heyo Guys,

On the Meetup Boards Hammith was running a "Playtest before the Playtest" game last saturday to help the players get setup with the rules, and we ran into an rather unusual case with turning that might need to be clarified.

Basically, we did a combat agianst a rather large swarm of wasps, and about half way through, I(who was playing a Cleric of Gozreh) wanted to cast a turning spell on the group. However, the wasps were in a space with one of the party, so I decided agianst it.

The question is, since the wasp cannot be target by single target spells...would they have been healed, even though the entire swarm was not in the area of the turning?

Oh and Smurf


W Canepa wrote:

On a similar note, why not just allow the Feint check to be made in conjunction with an attack so that it makes sense. Otherwise, you have foes running away every time you feint them, and that's not a feint, that's intimidation...lol.

That is basically the way Improved Feint works, since it makes Feinting a move action.


Sounds like a cool feat that would definitly fit in the combat feat setup...although with how Dodge is, and how Combat Feats work, it would probably be changed to

Agile Riposte
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Dodge
Benefit: As a free action at the start of the initiative phase, you may choose an opponent for your character to focus on. If that opponenet makes a melee attack or melee touch attack agianst the character and missesthe character may make an attack of opportunity against that opponent. Resolve and apply the effects from both attacks simultaneously.
Even a character with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the Agile Riposte feat more than once per round. This feat does not grant more attacks of opportunity than the character is normally allowed in a round.


Well, the feats still have the limiter.

Hmm...Looking at thing, while they are no longer "Chained" at least 3 or 4 of them work well "in combo" (ie Dazzling Display and Stunned Defence(Unless Im understanding it wrong)). They also add some interesting flavor, and variety to classes like fighters(although I may be saying that with Inexperince, and having my current fighter having an Int<13).


Joey Virtue wrote:

Now you can only use one combat feat per turn still?

The feats in question really is Dodge and Mobility or are they reverting back to there 3.5 feats?

Nope...they are just no longer "In Combo", so as long as you have the prereq you can use them. This allows you to "Dodge" for the AC Bonus, or drop the bonus and use Mobility or Spring to move without AoO.


Alright I gotta say this...We need to seriously tread carefully looking into any skill system that will escew the numbers you would get from skill points, as doing so is gonna screw up a large bit of the compatability. A little later, im going to put together some examples of all the ideas for...I dunno two 10th Level Characters on opposite sides of the point spectrum, and see what I come out with for results...


Alright...Ive looked at this a couple more times...in the end, the best choice is #2, but in one of thoes small boxes put "Alternate skill system", and put either #1 or #3(or entigen's or Reckless's solution for that matter). In the end, its a good alternative, but as I am finding it is a tough system to truly simplyfy.


etrigan wrote:

I think I’ve got a fine alternative:

Character begin with twice the number of skill points of
table 5.1 at level 1 (including +2 skills points for each
Intelligence pt bonus):

Skill Pts Class Skill
1 Hobby 1d20+1/2(Character level + 3)+ modifiers
2 Trained 1d20+Character level + 3 + modifiers
3 Expert 1d20+Character level + 6 + modifiers (equivalent to skill focus)

Skill Pts Cross-Class Skill
1 Hobby 1d20+1/2(Character level) + modifiers
2 Trained 1d20+1/2 (Character level + 3) + modifiers
3 Expert 1d20+1/2 (Character level + 3) + 3 + modifiers (

They could choose a maximum of Trained level at level 1 (2 skill Pts)
At every even character level after that, you gain another skill pick.

This give the flexibility of choosing hobby skills, keep the difference of skill pts between this system and the OGL to a minimum, and you can’t gain more than half-level equivalent of skill pts when you choose a new skills.

What do you think?

I like that system...But why .5(Level+3)+3 and not .5(level+6)?


etrigan wrote:

With the Hybrid system

A fighter level 1 could have (for exemple):
Climb (2 ranks Skilled) = rank 1 + ability modifier

A fighter level 10 could have (with 2 skills rank per level):
Climb (4 ranks Master) = rank 16 + ability modifier
Riding (4 ranks Master) = rank 16 + ability modifier
Intimidate (4 ranks Master) = rank 16 + ability modifier
Survival (4 ranks Master) = rank 16 + ability modifier
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (4 ranks Master)= rank 16 + ability modifier

This is the equivalent of 54 more skills pts than it's OGL equivalent. This system seem unbalanced (compare to the OGL) at low level and unbalanced at higher level too...

So I really don't understand the goal of the news skills systems proposal... I first think it was for simplicity but it's seem the goal is to boost skills ranks for every character...

Thats incorrect Enttigren...its 2 Ranks at the first, then another rank at 2nd and every level other after.

edit:The other thing, is there may be a need for a 1/2 Rank to allow the splitting of a rank for two lesser skills.


I figured out the problem with the Hyrbid.

For the Hyrbrid to calculate properly, you would have to do Entrigren's adjustment And move the first skill promotion to 3rd level...else you will have Climb 16, Riding 13 for a fighter at 10th level(unless thats intended)


Arne Schmidt wrote:

I would add an orison to the cleric called "Mark Ally". When a cleric channels positive energy anyone marked by this spell is healed. When a cleric channels negative energy anyone marked by this spell is spared the damage.

Would beings killed by a negative energy attack of this sort rise as wights?

The trouble with "Mark Ally" as you put it, is that it would completly circumvent its original purpose(that being killing undead) as more undead won't be around long enough to "Mark"

In the end, its going to have to be some sort of "On the Fly" AoE or direct trageting.


I think its, Class Level+3 for Class and .5(Class Level+3) for Cross class, as its basically max allowed ranks in the skill, and if your not trained in it, you don't have ranks.


fliprushman wrote:
I don't see light being a problem since all darkness spells are of a higher level than a 0 level spell. Create Water can be a problem. It would bring back the 2nd ed. ability to create it in your opponent's lungs except the room this time is filling up and all the opponent's need to swim or die.

I think in the end, with the amount of time it takes to fill said room with the current room...unless there are garuntees that the dude won't escape(or break something down to release the water) I don't see it as a problem...and if there are, I would say let them with the amount of work it took to do it.

Although...why do that anyway, when there is another spell that if properly bound, can grant them a slow and painful death(infict minor wounds)


I was looking at the Cleric Spell per day numbers compared in the Alpha to the PHB, and just noticed something. The Clerics in the Alpha is missing a spell per day in certain levels that the PHB have. While I understand the 0 level stuff is due to how Orisons work now, I think that might be an error that needs to be correct...or if it was a change, why?


LightWarden wrote:
I'm more worried about people spamming "light" and "create water". The latter completely eliminates deserts while the former could be used to create a large number of light sources and annoy people. Maybe a line about how you can only sustain one copy of the level 0 spell at a time, so when you cast light, any previous casting is automatically dispelled? Doesn't do much for Create Water since that's instantaneous, but it's the spirit of the thing.

Hmm...Probably the best Solution for create water is either a)put a limit on the amount of water you can produce over a certain amount of time or b)require it to come from a natural source.

b opens another pandora's box(think Boogie Power's effects on Alibaster) but it would also functionally work.


Hmm...I have an odd idea...instead of putting a limitation on feats put turn, set them to required actions with the former feats being active.

For example with the Dodge chain(which I think really should be taken out of it.) Make...
Dodge a Free Action
Mobility a Move Action
Spring Attack an Attack Action(this could work differently)

That way, you can still control the use of things like the Overhand Chop combo(which actually looks at least somewhat balanced if done that way), but not be too restictive.


I think at least one combat maneuver for mounted combatants would be good...I dunno what would work although as the only idea I can come up with is a combonation of a mounted charge and ride-by attack.


the more I look at this, the more im going to agree. Keep the points. Maybe make and adjusted version of the Trained Skill system as a Altenative, but use points.


As the rules currently are, there going to need the core books, as there are references to the core(or the SRD if you want to use that) and places where only adjustments to 3.5 rules are layed it.


ok, seeing at least 3 posts...and seeing so much talk on both sides on the fence, I think the best solution is a compremise between them...I dunno if this post is generate such but I figured I try.

first...I think that Naughty Jester's suggestion in the Skill post works well...and seems to solve most of the major complaint from the skill pointers

Naughty Jester wrote:

I like the new skill system in many ways, but I can see the desire for a measure of "not automatically max skilled" as well.

What if the number of Skill Choices were doubled, and instead of having Cross-Class and Class levels of ability, those same values were used for Trained and Mastery.

Spend 1 Skill Choice, and you have skill bonuses at Trained level (the Cross-Class bonus now). Spend a second Skill Choice on the same skill, and you get it at Mastery level (the Class bonus now).

Instead of the level of the skill being based on whether it is a Class Skill or not, the *cost* of the skill is based on that. The basic cost (1 Skill Choice) above is for Class Skills; Cross Class Skills cost double (2 Skill Choices for Trained and 2 more for Mastery).

It would make it possible for a character to master a Cross Class Skill, but it would cost 4 Skill Choices to pull that off (or optionally, no more than 2 Skill Choices could be spent in any one skill, so a Cross Class Skill can never be mastered).

Then at the current Skill Levels, characters get 2 more Skill Choices, but maybe they can't raise any skill more than one increase. So a character can go from Untrained to Trained or Trained to Mastery in one level, but they can't go from straight from Untrained to Mastery in that same time.

There were also some worries about Prestige Classes and Multiclassing.

1)for Prestige classes, probably the easiest adjustment(as been suggested) is to change it from "skill at x level" to "trained in X skill" which can be "Mastery at X skill" if something like Naughty's suggestion somehow was added

2)for Multiclass, to me the easiest way for the system to work it would be that the level bonus of the skill is equal to the level of the class that it was trained under.


Looking at it, have to agree the one big problem with Rebuke, and Turning is that is a 30 ft blast radius. This will make party members want to stay FAR away from the Rebuking Clerics, and turning healing will used only outside of battles, or thoes where the enemy is completly undead.

Can't think of a solution at the moment although. Best I can think of is allowing the cleric to make it a cone blast....but I think thant not how te skill works.


Karui Kage wrote:

I will kind of side here with everyone else. The skills seem to be the only thing I really dislike about this, otherwise I love it.

It's already been pointed out, but multi-classing is terribly broken this way. Take your rogue, give him a decent int (+2) and by 20th level, he has every class skill maxed. Take the same rogue, toss in a single level of fighter here or there, and he still has his same rogue skills maxed, but now he can add fighter skills too.

Doesn't seem to have any penalty for multi-classing skillwise, which doesn't make senses. If you spend time studying another field, your skills from the prior one should suffer.

Probably the easiest solution to the Multi-classing problem is making trained skill level based on class level instead of base level. This would mean that prestige classes would require a new choice of trained skills, but it basically solves that part of it.

Im on both sides of the fence outside of that, as I am one of thoes players that usually "sets it and forgets it", so removal of skill points is cool. However, I do understand the other side, as I have one dude in which part of his background is lived out in his skills. In the end, probably the best way is to find a skill set that either works points in, or sets up "hobby skills"


P.H. Dungeons wrote:


Acrobatic Fighter: You are particularly good at dodging out of the way of your foe's attacks. At any point in combat, as a swift action, when wearing light armour or no armour you may roll a DC 10 acrobatics check. If you make the check you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC for the remainder of the combat. For every 5 points by which you beat the DC, you gain an additional +1 bonus.

I think PH's idea would make a preety good combat feat, especially if Acro becomes a fighter class skill.


Coming to the Beta Test. All the core classes will be there.