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Pizza Lord wrote:

The Riding Dog is pretty much the gold standard for small riders. It's strong, it's fast, it has four legs (granted, that's most mounts) so it's resistant to trip and can carry more, and it can trip enemies, and has scent for tracking. It's also not so freaky looking that you get looks in town or stabling at the inn.

After that, I think most people go for something with Pounce.

But if you really want to try something that almost nobody (that I have observed) really tries, it's a snake. A constrictor snake starts at Medium and it's like 6 gold if you were to buy one. Granted, you would likely need to pay for an exotic riding saddle. Most people have trouble visualized riding a snake, because they are so attuned to riding horses or dogs or boars.

It has Constrict, which can damage and lock down an opponent with a bite and its movement includes Swim and Climb speeds (you said you weren't into climb, but your GM said it was okay), so even in tight spaces you could theoretically be moving forward on a wall or even across a ceiling (see why you have an exotic saddle to hold you place). Now your ranged attacks might not be blocked by your front liners and you can skirt pits and rough floor. Swim may or may not come into play. It has no legs so it really can't be tripped or knocked prone at all.
The real downside is their Speed of 20, which is not impressive. It's okay if you're planning to hold back and snipe anyway, but otherwise one of your spells might need to be longstrider or an Animal Focus that ups their speed.

** spoiler omitted **...

You know, I saw snake and immediately thought "oh, that's just a companion, not a mount - would be cool though..." and just forgot about it.

Reading this I am very much interested, and it may even be what I end up. I can see the GM only letting me climb on surfaces that have some sort of grip-able protrusions, but I don't mind at all.
I'm definitely putting this back at the top of the list.


Azothath wrote:

RAW Mounts and Pets which can be frustrating as it does not link to the monster.

Horse Substitutes thread, 2022 which includes a link to Animal Companions - so many choices thread.

This was amazing! Thanks!


Sysryke wrote:

I can't remember the exact rules, but there is an option to advance stats on ACs without advancing size for either Druids or Rangers, so I'm assuming there's an option for Hunters.

Halfling riding dogs are iconic. Wolves being a common alternative. Any AC can be taught the mount trick, so as long as you can afford the saddle, you can go nuts. Obviously the big cats are powerful combat choices. Though a boar or goat could be fun if you do decide to use charging tactics.

What types of tactics are you thinking of? What critters spark fun ideas or visuals for you?

I was thinking hanging outside melee range for full attacks, but (when space permits) moving around to the side to provide "rush in and... (flank/aid/special mount attack)", or chase down a runner/close up to a spellcaster behind the front lines.

In the tighter areas, the mount just can't be a detriment - i.e. if it were outdoors I'd have loved having a Triceratops, Elephant or even a Stegasaurus, for the potential of peppering away for a time and then when an opportunity presents itself just smashing in for a charge (or a hefty trip a la Steg)

Given I need a small mount, I still want the opportunity for something interesting to do besides being a mobile missile battery.

I did consider the Halfing Pupper Pepperer route, and although it's never been done before in our group, I wanted to see if there was something a little more exotic and interesting.


Oli Ironbar wrote:

Any mount can remain it's same size instead of increasing.

"Instead of taking the listed benefit at 4th or 7th level, you can instead choose to increase the companion's Dexterity and Constitution by 2."

Yes! This - I knew I had read it somewhere...


I am soon to start a new game, and I am looking at a few character concepts, but the Hunter seems like a bit of fun. Intending to go full mounted archer if I choose to use it (and having it pre-built for another campaign would also be nice).

DM has more-or-less hinted that a large component will be 'doing dungeon stuff'. Likely, this means 5' corridors and low ceilings. I'm not normally in the market for flying mounts anyway, and in discussion with the DM I expressed an intent not to really go for a climb speed either, just to not trivialize enemies - the DM responded that climb is okay, but for the purpose of the exercise it's not a massive selling point.

I'd like the mount to at least be able it hold it's own if someone closes to melee, or if I can charge an fleeing enemy or a weaker outlier from time to time, and occasionally close to assist with flanking if the "flying kebob stick" isn't working for whatever reason - not a full-switch hitter, but a rough approximation that wouldn't just be a liability when those situations arise.

So, my riding bretheren - what mounts are any good? I'm not just looking for 'the most OP', but if there is a clear winner I'm obviously going to take it.
Specifically:
Are there any really decent mounts that start off medium but STAY medium?
Are there any that start Small (thus not a mount right away) but become just exceptionally good at 4/7 when they increase in size?
Or, is there a way to prevent a really good Medium sized mount from becoming Large at the requisite level??
Or am I really going to struggle to be a mounted halfling flinging toothpicks?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. If it's too hard, I will park the concept and go with a Medium one in another campaign.


Hoping this gets a revamp; there has been some rather good books since this has been released, and I'm interested to see how it impacts the guide.


I'm thinking a gauntlet or cestus more for the utility of having the Negating or Nullifying properties on the offhand weapon, or perhaps Spellstoring or Spellstealing.

In any case, a flat damage bonus on it would be welcome, particularly if you're relying on it doing damage in the out-of-turn downtime.

Seeing as you're still unarmed, even though you drop a damage die or two (from 1d6 to 1d4/1d3) a +1 enhancement makes up for it immediately and then you have the extra sweet stuff to boot.


Tels wrote:
McTaff wrote:

Monk - can't see much benefit here myself, unless you like wearing nothing but pajamas.

A 2-level dip into Monk Master of Many Styles nets you Stunning Fist, +1 BAB, +2 to all saves, Improved Unarmed Strike, and you can take 2 Style Feats and ignore most of the pre-reqs on them, plus you can maintain 2 style feats at the same time.

For instance, you could, at any odd level, take Snake Style as your feat, and MoMS as your level up, which then allows you to take Snake Sidewind as your feat. Then, the level after, you can take MoMS again, to gain Snake Fang. Combine that with Crane Style feats on your own time, and you can get some real AC bonus going.

Snake Style is great for inquisitors because Inquisitors get half their level on Sense Motive checks, so the Sense Motive check to deflect an attack becomes almost automatic. Sidewind lets the Inquisitor use a high threat weapon, and if you threaten with a low iterative, you can confirm it with your Sense Motive (again, almost automatic).

What this ends up giving you, is two chances to deflect attacks that would otherwise be hit (Crane Wing, Snake Style), a counter attack (Crane Riposte), confirm a crit with Sense Motive (Snake Sidewind), and counter-attack missed but not deflected, attacks (Snake Fang).

Whoa.

Those return attacks have to be unarmed, but that doesn't stop you from using a gauntlet or cestus and having it enchanted...


Xykal wrote:
McTaff wrote:

How does reach weapons (particularly with bonus CM bonuses) and weapon proficiency stuff tie in according to you, if you have a melee heavy party?

Looking specifically at Fauchard, Lucerne Hammer, Guisarme, etc.... {snip}

Just don't forget about the cover rules...

What I mean is to reach over the shoulder - standing at one diagonal. You're still adjacent, and you still threaten (as you threaten two diagonals as the special rule here)

Good point though, can't play that card if you're in a 5-foot corridor.


Also, two further questions...

For those that use Hero Lab: What are the "Secondary Spells" in the Inquisitor tab? Can't find any reference to it?

For Bodhizen: What do you view as valid dipping classes for your Inquisitors?
Fighter is an obvious choice for Proficiencies, +1 BAB and a feat.
Rogue for Evasion, +1d6 on a flank and a rogue talent if you spend two levels here.
Barbarian can give Uncanny dodge and +10ft/round speed increase with the added kicker of Rage, at the cost of two levels.
Paladin gives proficiencies, +1 BAB and a shot at Smite Evil once a day
Ranger likewise gives proficiencies, +1BAB and a favoured enemy bonus (for RP value more than anything)
Monk - can't see much benefit here myself, unless you like wearing nothing but pajamas.


I'd like to stir up the hornet nest a bit...

How does reach weapons (particularly with bonus CM bonuses) and weapon proficiency stuff tie in according to you, if you have a melee heavy party?

Looking specifically at Fauchard, Lucerne Hammer, Guisarme, etc. Given that you have Solo Tactics, it helps open up things like:
Paired Opportunists
Swap Places
Tandem Trip
One idea is to be lining up behind a meat shield, reaching over their shoulder with a reach and trip weapon and having Tandem Trip or Coordinated Manoeuvers, or perhaps disarming using a Bill... And still being able to hack away with iterative attacks whenever you like.
As long as you have Combat Reflexes to power AoO you can also be in a position to chop away at anything attempting to get into a flanking position.
The Dwarven Dorn-Duergar would be awesome but the Darting Viper feat tax might be a deal-breaker.

Has anyone investigated the usefulness of this stuff here?


Upon further investigation with the wording and the FAQ here, it appears that indeed the Evangelist is intended to qualify for these feats.

Hero Lab just wasn't letting me select it, because for some reason I'd deleted the archetype while fiddling around with the character.

All is good, I'm just a little slow on the uptake today.


Evangelist Cleric archetype seems relatively interesting, and I've been messing around trying to get one that's going to work.

This is less of a 'question' (I know the answer in RAW), but I'd like to know if there is any obvious reason why Paizo have left it out in the cold with respect to the Performance related feats? RAW states Sermonic Performance "is similar to" Bardic Performance, but this does not imply "is to be treated as".

Specifically regarding:
Lingering Performance
Harmonic Spell
Discordant Voice
Spellsong
... and other feats related to bardic performance.

Is there a particular reason (assuming it was deliberately left out) that this wording renders these feats unavailable to a class that's given up an entire domain and a few other sundry items?
Otherwise, is it simply a matter of overlooking whether these should apply to this class archetype feature? (entirely possible).

a) I want to know if there exists some sort of wild combo or synergy that gives unfair advantages before my GM 'house rules' this to allow me to use it. Thoughts or observations?

b) I also hope that Paizo can at least give it a second look and say Yea or Nay as to whether they are intended to qualify for these feats.


Just wish to point in out my previous post, there are a couple of instances where I assume you can do more than one swift action a turn :o


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 4 people marked this as a favorite.

I've just searched for this, because I am a GM and have successfully turned a Paladin within the player party. I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, as there are very few specific feats for what is essentially the mirror image of the Paladin.

Firstly, the list of "Lay On Hands" only candidate feats are:
Extra Lay On Hands
Extra Mercy
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy
Reward Of Grace
Reward Of Life
Radiant Charge
Word Of Healing

I'd simply allow the first two to be directly applicable to ToC.

The next few would require some modifications to the text, but with the prerequisites remaining somewhat the same as applicable. Therefore, I would respectfully suggest the following additions to the Paizo rulebooks:

Greater Cruelty
When you use your Touch Of Corruption ability to deal damage to a target, if that target is already suffering from the conditions you can apply, instead it deals an additional +1d6 points of damage.

Ultimate Cruelty
You can expend 10 uses of Touch Of Corruption to attempt to slay one creature you touch, as a slay living spell with a caster level equal to your antipaladin level. Alternatively, you could force the negative life force of an undead creature back into it's corpse, bringing back to unlife. You must provide the material component for raise dead or choose to accept 1 temporary negative level; this level automatically goes away after 24 hours, never becomes a permanent negative level, and cannot be overcome in any way except by waiting for the duration to expire.

Reward Of Execration
Each time you use your touch of corruption ability, you gain a +1 profane bonus on all attack rolls for 1 round.

Reward Of Anathema
Each time you use your touch of corruption ability to damage a creature, you heal a number of hit points equal to your Charisma bonus. This ability has no effect if you use lay on hands to heal undead.
- (Alternatively, it could be "equal to the damage dealt" as healing two characters is generally more favourable than damaging an enemy, just to beef this feat up a little.)

Dark Charge
When you hit with a charge attack, you can expend all of your remaining uses of touch of corruption to deal extra damage equal to 1d6 per use of touch of corruption expended + your Charisma bonus. This damage comes from unholy power and is not subject to damage reduction, energy immunities, or energy resistances.

Imprecation Of Destruction
You may use your touch of corruption to damage another creature at a range of 30 feet as a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to speak and have a free hand to use this ability. The target takes half the amount they would have been damaged if you had touched them, but gains the benefits of your cruelties as normal.
- (Alternatively, it could change to "Before making a melee attack roll. you may expend on use of your Touch Of Corruption as a swift action to imbue your weapon with the profane power of your Touch Of Corruption ability. If the hit is successful, the target suffers the effects of your Touch Of Corruption ability, including any cruelties, as per normal. You may use this ability a number of times each day equal to 3 + your Wisdom/Charisma modifier)

I believe this is about as even and balanced as is conceivable, happy to stand corrected. I firmly believe that in most campaigns, Smite Good and Touch Of Corruption aren't as flexible and as good as their Smite Evil and Lay On Hands counterparts, so a little bit of tweaking to make them a bit more powerful isn't necessarily a bad thing.


(Casting Thread necro)

Ok, here are a couple of cool things you could do with rays (assuming you get this far in your campaign)

I am assuming you are taking some levels in Fighter/Eldritch knight here, and I'm only referring to a certain selection of feats, not all of the feats (although there are some classy others out there)

Arcane Strike
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Critical Focus
Impact Critical Shot
Weapon Focus (Ray)
Improved Critical (Ray)
Staggering Critical

So you fire your Ray of Frost, dealing 1d3+X(AS)+1(PBS) with a critical on 19-20. To confirm your critical, you have an additional +4 to confirm for an extra d3 of damage.
But now:
A) the same modifiers apply together to attempt to beat the opponents CMD, and if you are successful you can trip or bullrush them, or
B) they are staggered for a round (or 1d4+1 if they fail a Fort save at 10+ your BAB).

Just pick which one based on whether it'll be too hard to trip or bullrush them - I'd prefer to bullrush wherever possible to keep them away from my squishy self and push them into corners/obstacles/pits/battlefield control spells/rivers, but I'd happily stagger them. (As levels get higher I can see less use for ICS)

Not bad for a level 0 spell, eh?

Notes:
1) The "special" text for Impact Critical Hit is omitted (where it would say you can't apply the effects of two critical feats), but it is a feat with the 'Critical' type, therefore it means you can only do one or the other unless you have Critical Mastery.
2) ICS does count with rays as weapons. It is a ranged weapon attack.
3) Spell Resistance is going to be the not-so-fun pat of the attack. Recommend Spell Penetration.
4) Tiring Critical -> Exhausting Critical is a winner also.
5) The Eldritch Knight capstone would allow you to use a swift action to cast an additional spell as long as the original target was one of those targets in the new spell.


Elven Curve Blade.

Sure, you have to wear sparkly silk socks and hot pink budgie smugglers because you're probably an elf, but it's got good damage and crit range, and you can finesse with it.


Pendagast wrote:

Anyway, as fas as how NPCs react to someone carrying a longbow? Why, who cares, its a bow.

A notched arrow IN the bow is a different stance than walking around with a bow in hand.

Drawn Sword = Notched arrow

That depends on the NPC. Almost all NPCs the players meet are trained in the use of, or are familiar with other people who use bows. In this case, the NPC knows it is a non-action to nock and fire. (Applying the real-world nocked vs. held doesn't hold true with game mechanics as to draw, nock, aim and fire is an attack action, not something that takes a significant amount of time, and therefore can just be done with nothing more than the bow in hand.)

Therefore, if I am an armed, I may understand and not care, especially if the area is a place you'd likely run into trouble.
If I am armed and guarding something, or you have come onto my property, I may be offended or standoffish. I'd expect that you, once you are aware of who I am or where you are, that you'd put the damn thing away lest I get the wrong idea.
If I am not armed in any way, or I know I'm outwardly appearing to be not a threat, I'd be extremely concerned why the dude holding the pointy-stick-launcher hasn't seen fit to sling it over his shoulder to relax or even put it away - is he expecting to use it? Why? Am I about to be attacked?

-

Perhaps another analogy. You see two people. One is holding a rifle, with a magazine in it. You can't tell if it is loaded or the action worked/safety on or off. The other approaches you, but his buddy hasn't made any effort to make it clear he is not intending to shoot you (by making safe and slinging his rifle or anything like that). How would you treat him and his friend? With suspicion? Angrily? Scared? Respectful?
Different people would react in different ways, and you'd DM accordingly.

The point is, anyone openly carrying weapons in hand that could be perceived as a threat is probably going to be treated differently to if they were unarmed or had their bow slung over the shoulder, and depending on the NPC they are taking to, it could be positive or negative. But in most cases, it is never simply ignored that the players are carrying something in their hand if it is a threat and no effort is made to show otherwise (or intended for intimidation purposes, whichever the case may be).


I can echo those with both bow experience and combat experience - it is no big thing to have a weapon at the ready at all times if it's necessary.

But as a game mechanic (which is the original question), it would have an impact on NPC reactions!

If you do use NPC attitudes, I'd immediately make most NPC's attitude to one step worse, seeing as to their eyes there is some knob-end looking like he is ready for a rumble.

If you don't (As a DM, we don't really use the NPC attitude scale: Diplomacy is simply like "persuade" to us), I'd make it a point to make the occasional 'neutral' NPC encounter significantly harder unless he states he is putting his weapon away beforehand - if he doesn't do it early (and without you prompting) it might cause a good situation to turn bad almost immediately. Also (or alternatively), conversations requiring diplomatic resolution might be unattainable or require the adventuring party to perform extra services for the NPC's to prove they have good intentions because, after all, they looked hostile to begin with.

Certainly, I'd certainly be asking someone to prove they were serious about being friends with me if they rocked up at my front door holding a machete.

After some time, the whole party would start to specify whether they are going "nuts out" or "pants on" whenever they are in a new location, based on what they think they'll be likely to run into.


*** Warning: Thread Necromancy ***

Going back to the question before: Arcane Strike and Rays, it's actually very clear that it does indeed work.

1) RAW/RAI state that rays are weapons. This has been confirmed several times.
2) Arcane Strike states that you imbue your weapons, regardless of how many you have, or where they are. There is no requirement stating "weapon touched" or "one melee weapon, or 50 ammunition" or "wielded weapon".
3) The effect lasts for one round. (It does not specify that you target a weapon, and that weapon then is imbued for one round. It simply states all weapons - even ones you pick up, conjure or acquire that round).

I can, if I wish, use Arcane Strike and Spiritual Weapon. Or Flame Blade. No distinction is drawn as to when the ability is used, nor when the weapon appears. You are drawing on your arcane power to imbue your weapons, and the feat is not written as a SLA with targets and durations and limitations; how it happens is deliberately handwaved.

No distinction is ever made how it functions. One could read the text "As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power" to mean "As a swift action, you commence something similar to a Bardic Performance that will imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power".

So for all anyone here knows, it could be calling up some sort of internal power that then reaches out through your weapons as you swing/fire/stab/thrust with them. In this way, you could consider your skillful spell casting fingers are the weapon being imbued. Hence, you can choose whichever spell you want and your little stubby weaponised fingers get a little boost from magicland when you flick your wrist....

...Or it could be a pulsating invisible aura, constantly feeding you with magical energy that arcs along lines of force generated by anything you swing, send out or fire....

...Alternatively it could be a sparkly cloud of ethereal fairies that surround you, always throwing pixie dust around that coalesces around anything that you use as a weapon and boosts them with rainbow energy...

...or whatever else turns your crank.

The point is, it's not a spell effect or something that requires you to target a weapon, and the way it works was handwaved to make it simple. It just happens, and that is that.

-

Even so, there is little excitement though - getting +4 damage to one or two spells in a round (assuming you are able to cast that many) isn't as exciting as stabbing someone three or four times with the +4 active. It's not completely overpowered, so there shouldn't be any crazy GM crackdown on GishAxeChuckerers being too OP. It requires you to perform an action, so it's not just 'free damage'.

As another point, I could have Quick Draw and a full set of attacks and wish to Arcane Strike. I could then draw any combination of daggers, throwing axes or even toss a longsword if I want, and all of those would be treated with the Arcane Strike ability, no matter if I had one stashed in my boot, or in my scabbard, or strapped to my forearm - or even in a Glove Of Storing. I don't have to choose which weapons, it is not limited in any way.

I could even activate Arcane Strike, perform a Disarm CM and snatch away an enemy weapon, and use it - with Arcane Strike active - in an AoO when he tries to grab it back. Of course it initially sounds absurd, but re-imagine that pulsating aura... the effect is active, it means it's happening, so stab away and get your extra couple of damage as some BBEG takes back his longsword and then fillets you with it.


18. An actual *human* Voltron.


This recipe requires:
- Arcane Archer of level 8 or above (x1)
- A decent bow, preferably with the "Distance" quality (x1)
- A siege weapon (x1)
- Ring of Feather Fall (x1)
- Suit of masterwork armour (x1)
- Armour spikes (1 pinch)
- Arrows (1 crapload)
- Wizard with Craft Magic Arms/Armour, and the spell "Telekinesis" (x1)

Garnishes to taste:
- Efficient Quiver
- Abundant Ammunition spell
- Gravity Bow spell

Method:
Step 1) Craft/obtain armor with Armor Spikes.
Step 2) Make the spikes magical.
Step 3) Give them the "Throwing" quality.
Step 4) Also give them the "Returning" quality.
Step 5) Have a siege weapon crew load you into the bucket of a catapult/trebuchet and to attack any large group of enemies, using you as the ammunition - on your own initiative step.
Step 6) Oh, uh, remember to have your Ring Of Feather Fall on (probably should have this at/before Step 1).
Step 7) While gliding on your way down, attack everything in sight with your bow using "Hail Of Arrows"
Step 8) When you land, you teleport back to the siege weapon before anyone can react.

Result:
Whee! Strafing Archer onna string!

Caveat:
Yes, ok, obviously a GM should see that the character is not technically thrown (s/he is 'fired') and could optionally advise you that your entire suit of armour "dutifully teleported back to it's point of origin", but it's not the point. I got a good laugh out of the thought. (Alternatively you could try convincing a handy Giant to throw you...)


Wholly sheet!

That's pretty much what I was hoping to arrive at eventually. That's an amazing amount of detail.

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in with some Math-jitsu - you're all awesome.


Blueluck wrote:

I whipped this up a few months ago for similar reasons. It's not brilliant or genius, but it gets the job done.

Google Spreadsheet

That is quite good, and covers exactly what I needed.

Thanks!


Anyone here a brilliant excel wizard (or sorcerer)? Code genius will also be highly viewed upon.

I set about wanting to know under what circumstances Power Attack was better than Weapon Focus, and what difference Weapon Spec makes, and how improving critical ranges and multipliers changes damage output, and how base weapons change. On several web forums I have seen people turning out some pretty epic tables, but never tin the scope of what I was hoping for (they are always specific examples and much of it is outdated)... basically I started wanting a giant Excel spreadsheet (or some sort of program) that would take the raw data such as:

My class(es) levels
My weapon(s)
My feat(s) that I am using

.. and calculate out on an "average" foe for an equal CR, CR +1 and CR +2 what my average expected hits per round/full attack are, my critical chances, my average damage range and so on.

I even mused how it would be beneficial to know how many feats a character could spend at that level, etc.

I got partway through entering some of the data and was going to ask an excel guru buddy to help. Unfortunately, he is unable to give me any help on account of some personal stuff of his own taking a lot of precedence, so I was reaching out to anyone who might have a great deal of expertise and might like to help out (read: do all the hard work because I am dumb) with something like that.

Even better, if anyone is into App development, this could be a pretty radical little app for any tablet device.

Takers?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Man, this thread just keeps coming back.

Still, Shield Master makes a two shield fighter worth it.

(It is the thread that keeps on coming back from the dead!)

Theoretically, you could have a Heavy shield in your main hand, and a light shield in the off hand, and plow into bad guys like you were wielding two giant cymbals.


At first I thought I'd say there is no way that a DM's wouldn't bat that one down, but re-reading it seems pretty clear that a shield appears to be the ultimate weapon in combat!

Wow, talk about a loophole!


I came here looking at Spell Storing for pretty much the same reason because I had a few questions.

Upon reading this thread, some were answered, but I have new ones.

For Spell Storing: It says "...single targeted spell...", and taking a hard line as to what that means renders part of the argument moot. Only certain spells crit, and Spell Storing seems not to cater for those (Touch, Ray or Ranged Touch) spells by inference.

For example -

1) Do you allow Spell Storing to extend to touch, ranged touch and ray spells or are they excluded?
Targeted (i.e. Hold Person, Reduce Person) is what RAW seem to infer.
Touch (i.e. Vampiric Touch, Frigid Touch or Force Punch) spells usually target a single creature. That could count, right? But the target line does not say "single {creature/target}" so where do you draw the line?
Ranged touch (i.e. Acid Arrow) could also count in the same way that Touch spells operate?
Ray (i.e. Ray Of Frost, Scorching Ray) could therefore count if you allow those, (as long as if it had multiple targets that they all must be targeted at the one creature) seeing as they are/can be targeted at a specific creature?

2) Another weird one - if you allow rays, but disallow Scorching Ray on account of it's multiple target potential, then I cannot cast magic missile (that allows several targeted creatures in the "target" field, so that would disqualify it).

Taking both of these questions into account, the actual candidates for "Spell Storing" can slim down quite a bit if you interpret the RAW.

However, assuming that you MAY include these spells, then I would agree with AerynTahlro. Confirms with the weapon, but only on a 20.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

I have a curlier example:

Spell Critical

Spoiler:
At 10th level, whenever an eldritch knight successfully confirms a critical hit, he can cast a spell as a swift action. The spell must include the target of the attack as one of its targets or in its area of effect. Casting this spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The caster must still meet all of the spell's components and must roll for arcane spell failure if necessary.

Here, the spell is cast "separately" as a swift action. Given, however, that he (as above) has the hard bit of hit weapon crushing through the soft bit of the bad guy at the time of casting, I'd still be inclined to make the same ruling as above with Spell Storing. Hard to see that there would be any difference, despite it being a separate action, because it included as part of the same chain of events.

Using some common sense, and drawing some very tenuous conclusions, I believe it would be fairer to award a critical threat as the player has already rolled his to-hit roll along with the weapon. You're already touching the enemy - how could you miss with a spell that discharges through it, or as a direct result of it?
Furthermore, the player has also rolled again to see if it is a critical for the weapon itself, so you've currently got the pointy bit lodged in a tender place (or have the hardest bit crushing the creatures softest bits), so delivering the spell as a critical hit should also pretty much be a given.
It could be legitimate to ask the player to confirm separately from the spell, but now we are going on three separate rolls on one attack to see how much damage we should be doing.

Having
a) three (or four!) attack rolls;
b) generally requiring in the order of 15 to 20 on the die for at least two of them (to cause a threat on a good day with the right magic turned on / right weapon equipped);
c) just for the pleasure of dealing double damage (or adding an effect) with a secondary part of the attack;
d) that is delivered with a prestige class capstone ability...

...is not exactly an easy thing for the player to swallow, especially seeing as they just got extremely lucky to begin with to get the weapon crit in the first place. Even doubly so given that they are slightly squishier than most front-line guys and are probably toe-to-toe with something pretty big, hairy, scary and liable to outright kill them in only a few hits if they lose their defensive spells.

So I agree with AerynTahlro in this case as well: use the weapon critical confirmation roll to apply to the spell as well - therefore, only a 20 would suffice in any case (unless you had Improved Critical {Ray} and it was a Ray spell).


Whew! That was 28 minutes of my life that was well-spent.

I'd have probably waited until after a gaming session and actually said to him "Hey dude, the way you play your character is seriously annoying the hell out of me, it'd probably be best if he had an epiphany and realised how his path to wholeness was corrupted by misunderstandings". When he starts saying "but that's how my character is, and I'm RPing", I'd have reminded him that "RPing is always second to the game flowing. If you want to RP, that's fine, but don't RP to the detriment of the game - it's disruptive and not fun".

That probably would have solved the problem. If it hadn't, then I'd have asked the other CHARACTERS to kick him out of the party, taking away a few of that characters' privelages. (Such as walking, holding objects and breathing for starters).

---But to the matter at hand---

For the hand-wraps, wait until you're in town, and get them valued by an NPC vendor that can figure out the exact enchantments.

Take the box to a religious organisation and insist that they check the whole thing out, and read the tortle stuff to you out loud.
Alternatively, find a wizard or bard to do it.
At the same time, get them to check for curses, magic (check the type of aura and attempt a dispel on magics that hide auras as well).

As a fighter in unarmed, I'd be worrying over exactly whose god/goddess I'd be "providing power to if I kill people" or "in whose name I would be drawing blood." Any character that receives a powerful weapon that has an obviously intricate history that eludes the players could be something far beyond a "simple curse".

I'd be stating quite clearly that this could be a dangerous tool that may just turn the actions of the party into fuel for the fire that threatens to consume the world! Could you imagine that when you kill something with that weapon, that the soul of the departed is captured and grants all of it's power to a long-forgotten tortle god of murder and destruction?

-----------------edit:

Just remembered you're evil. Slap them on, you're less concerned with a bit of collateral damage as long as it's not completely instantly colossal and irreversable, which your character would not expect to happen unless the thing arrived coated in boiling black blood and had every evil rune possibly conceived (and a few that hadn't been).

But still check them out in town for the previous reasons - they are purely RP reasons now, but are completely legitimate. Once you're given the all-clear from a reputable NPC then he's effectively burned the bridge to assassinate you with them later on.


Excellent. I was pretty sure they wouldn't stack, but wanted clarification.

It does seem that spending the feats can certainly pay off, although it's rather a narrow specialisation. On any character I would play, I'd have to see it complemented with a decent couple of 2H feats to offset the lower damage-per-hit for those instances when AC isn't saving you, and you need big numbers *pronto*.

It does seem detrimental to use a Heavy shield in the Offhand, although there could be a benefit if it was a Main Hand weapon and a light o/h weapon, but I think that's simply chasing a small potential damage with too much of a miss chance for those times you want to use your weapon as a primary and still bash away.

Thanks very much for the input to all those who had contributed before me, and thanks to Cartmanbeck for addressing my question.


Just to resurrect this thread (didn't want to start a new one)...:

1) If a character has ITWF, does that mean if you are using the shield as an offhand (i.e. not the primary), you'd get 2 extra attacks with it, first at your full BAB, and then full BAB -5? (Obviously the intention is to have a -5 penalty on the second "free" attack regardless of what SM says about removing the penalty)

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2) If you have TWF, ITWF, SM, that would mean (assuming BAB of 12)..
If you had a Light Shield:
+10/+5/+0(Main), and +12/+7(Shield)
If you had a +2 Light Shield it would become:
+10/+5/+0(Main), and +14/+9(Shield)
If you had a +2 Light Shield w/ +3 Spikes (as magically enhanced weapon):
+10/+5/+0(Main), and +17/+12(Shield)

3) If you go for Grater TWF does this add an additional attack at -5 on each of the shield bashes?

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4) If you want to start using the shield itself as the primary weapon (i.e. using a Heavy Shield with spikes or whatever), and wield an offhand light weapon, does this switch around to reflect the above table as:
+12/+7/+2(Main Hand Shield), and +10/+5(Offhand)
If you had a +2 Light Shield it would become:
+14/+9/+4(Main Hand Shield), and +10/+5(Offhand)
If you had a +2 Light Shield w/ +3 Spikes (as magically enhanced weapon):
+17/+12/+7(Main Hand Shield), and +10/+5(Offhand)

5) If the above holds true, could you then got for Greater TWF and add an additional attack at +0 for the offhand in each of those instances?