So this issue had a thread made already a few years ago, but it got derailed and never got any meaningful reply, hence why I am asking again.
So the Geneturge Mystic Connection has Reject Augmentations as it's 4th caster level bonus spell, but it's a 2nd level spell for the Mystic not a 4th level one. Is this just an oversight? Was Reject Augmentations suppose to be a multi level spell like Flight or Mystic Cure and when it got turned into a static 2nd level spell was this never changed?
I'd love some clarification on how this is suppose to be.
"Drop your weapon and surrender, you are against overwhelming forces." would work in that situation, "Drop your weapons." would not, as the spell says: "You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell."
Your best defense is Magic circle against evil, it will stop any attempt to influence the group (as long as they stay reasonably close to each other) and it lasts for a reasonably long time.
Suggestion isn't command, the suggested course of action should sound reasonable.
BTW, Mind Flayers are iconic WotC creatures, they haven't been ported in Pathfinder for copyright reasons.
Well aware of the fact they aren't in Pathfinder because Copyright shenanigans, he's using a port or homebrew as far as I know. Regardless I don't "Drop your weapon and surrender, you are against overwhelming forces." would have worked either, our party has taken on greater odds then those and come out on top, so by my reasoning that wouldn't be reasonable enough to make it work, despite the fact that it would suggest that the enemy would stop attacking us and take us captive, they didn't.
So, we've had a long standing debate in how the Suggestion spell works in combat, namely our GM treating it as a lesser form of Mind Control. The first time it happened The Mind Flayer made several us drop our weapons and stand still while surrounded by it's goblin minions.
Unsurprising doing this by my argument breaks the "Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell" clause of the spell, as dropping your weapon while surrounded by enemies who also have melee weapons out and standing still seems rather harmful. Not to mention picking up your weapon and provoking AoO.
I've explained multiple times that this is the kind of spell that is cast by a sneaky spellcasting type, to make a guard think he may wanna go to the bathroom soon, or go check another part of the ramparts so she can sneak by, it suggests, not enforces a course of action, one that must sound reasonable and rational to the affected person, of which as I said above dropping your weapons and standing still while sounded by enemies isn't either of those.
But the debate hasn't been settled yet, and we got jumped by not one but five of the squidheads at the end of last session, so I know this will come up again, and after the snafu that lead to this situation in the first place, (caused by multiple party members not coordinating or even paying attention to things said/done), I really want this to be a non-issue as it should have been from the first time it came up.
So I'm curious with the above item when it's counter attack magic missile effect is proc'd, how many missiles are shot and how many charges of it's starting 50 does are used?
It says the magic missile is caster level 3, so by the spell that is 2 missiles doing 1d4+1 each. So each time it's effect is proc'd that would use two charges?
So drawing ammunition, which shuriken count as is a free action, so having ten of them in a spring-loaded wrist sheath (which can hold 1 pound of ammo, of which 10 shuriken equates to) and dispensing them as a swift action, does what for me?
I don't understand any obvious advantages as far as actions go, there's the +2 to conceal the sheath but that's about it.
Anything other then rule of cool having one of these would do for me?
So I'm going to be playing a natural Lycanthrope in my next Pathfinder game, and I'm confused on how natural attacks work with some of the feat I've taken, so I'll go into detail.
She's a Werewolf, so naturally has a 1d6 bite attack, I took aspect of the beast so she also now has two 1d4 claw attacks. I took improved natural attacks twice, one for each so now it's a 1d8 bite and two 1d6 claws.
So arises the first question, which attacks are Primary and which are Secondary? I've been told that doing a full attack action (bite, claw claw) will all be at full BAB but only 1x str mod for damage before other shenanigans like power attack. Is this correct? I have been under the assumption that my bite would be a primary so full BAB and 1.5x str for damage and my claws secondary at -5 BAB and only 0.5 str mod for damage.
I've also taken (begrudgingly) Improved Unarmed Strike and Bleeding attack, and I'm curious how that works. Do I cause the extra bleed damage on the attack? And on which attacks? If I hit all three attacks do I do 3d4 bleed damage to my target? Or only the highest of the 1d4? And is it on his turn or when the attack hits?
Curious if Bloody Assault would be the better pick over Bleeding attack, as I will be power attacking most of the time, and as I understand bleeding doesn't stack. Could I even use Bloody Assault with natural attacks? Not sure if they count as "weapon attacks" or not, it doesn't say I can't use natural attacks, so I am assuming I can.
Last question (for now); would the Rending Claws feat count as "rend" for the purposes of taking Rending Fury?
NC:WoMD is listed a source for some things on the Machinesmith page not listed in the Classes of NeoExodus: Machinesmith, such as Rampage armor, but this acronym is the only source listed with no hint or link as to what it stands for. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, but I couldn't find a better place.
Anyway I got a random warning from my Avast! AV that apparently the d20pfsrd is a "Known phishing site". I'm 99.9% sure this is just my AV being over reactive, or going on the "word" of a bunch of trolls mailing them and reporting the d20pfsrd as dangerous, but I am curious if anyone else has gotten this message as well?
EDIT: I notice the popup only appears when the donation tab appears at the bottom of the screen.
Just curious if (assuming I can convince my GM it's a fighting style) that I could use this to gain proficiency with a firearm? If so can I gain it will all of them as per the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat? Or just one fire arm?
I'm looking to create a rapier and pistol wielding Inquisitor, specifically a Spiral Rapier, which is an exotic weapon as well. Should I consider skipping this and keeping my bonus feat for Amateur Gunslinger instead?
So the details I can remember are that they where subdivided into four different sub races, one was large sized and was meant for war, there was a medium sized one that were often diplomats and advisors, there where short stout ones that where innately sneaky.
Each subrace also got a number of "upgrade points" depending on the kind, the large ones got the least, and you got more of these upgrade points as you leveled up, and there was a long list of choices. Also this race couldn't wear armor but was build "with" their armor and some of those upgrades increased said armor.
Image wise I know the war one had a huge shield and pole arm, and the diplomat image was of female with a spade shaped headpiece. Having to rest so they didn't run out of power was a thing, and there where upgrades to allow them to operate longer without having to stop or risk becoming "fatigued".
Does anyone know what this race is called? I'm wracking my brain trying to remember, I know they are not Gearforged, Forgeborn or Warforged, I checked all those articles on the SRD, none of them are it.
I'm confused on this, as the Major customization "Armor, Reinforced (Armor; Chest)" rules wording seems to indicate that it stacks with the minor one "Armor, Improved (Armor; Chest)";
"The Automata gains additional armor plates, increasing its base armor bonus by 2. In addition, it suffers an additional 10% chance of arcane spell failure and suffers a -1 armor check penalty. These penalties stack with the current penalties."
So different tiers of customization be stacked even if they are in the same location? Or when it mentions current penalties does it refer to the penalties associated with the "subrace" of Automata?
Never played with this third-party race before, so I'd love some clarification from someone who has.
Curious as while the pistols entry says it may be use ammo to cast Burning Hands it doesn't list what it's effective caster level should be counted as, and since the ones most commonly using this nifty little toy are Gunslingers who have no caster level what is the damage?
Does it go by thier effective level? Is it treated as if "used by" a first level caster? The former seems logical yet overpowered and the later under powered for a 20k gold item.
So I was curious if Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy can benefit from the the Dwarf alternate racial trait;
Spiritual Support: Dwarves greatly value loyalty in faith, and their gods readily reward them for it. They gain a +1 racial bonus to their caster levels when casting conjuration (healing) spells upon allies. This racial trait replaces greed and hardy.
Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy both say a Paladin/Cleric's effective caster level when determining how much they can heal/harm/do with those abilities.
Therefor a level 4 Dwarven Paladin casting Lay on Hands with this racial trait would heal 3d6 hitpoints to a living creature instead of 2d6 if he hasn't had the trait.
I was looking up the Zombie, Fast (Wolf) and I noticed in it's attack entry it is listed as doing 1d6+3 plus trip, so from what I understand (if I am correct) if it succeeds in scoring a hit it's automatically allowed a free trip attempt as part of that attack action.
My question is then does as per a trip attempt does the target get an attack of opportunity or not?
Curious if anywhere in official material it Pathfinder has any spells that let you change a creatures attitude so drastically it either puts away it's weapon and acts neutral/friendly, or goes berserk attacking friends and enemies alike, aka the Calm and Frenzy spells in Skyrim.
I apologize I didn't know we had a forum for just Third Party Products, I suppose magic might also explain what happens to their lower body items, but it be fun as a challenge to/as players to work around.
I can't be the only person to wonder about this... right? I mean they change their entire lower torso, anything worn directly on their legs or feet would come off when they shift, including armor. I suppose you could wear a shirt or kilt but I'm wondering if how Lapith deal with this is ever elaborated in lore anywhere.
It's a colloquial way of marking something when (like now, again, for me), you don't have time to fully look at or comment on it, but you wish to do so later.
Ahhhh... I see. Maybe it's a bit to long to be a considered a short story then? lol
Freehold DM wrote:
I wish there was more short fiction on here.
Me too, it's a shame. I fear lore and just good story telling in general is at risk of being lost sometimes, mostly when people get to bogged down in rules and systems.
(Preface: This is a work I was suddenly inspired to write a few hours ago, it takes place in a "standalone" work in the Forgotten Realms setting. Don't think to hard on the lore, just enjoy the story. I have some work to do still related to grammar, and I'd love any feedback you could give.)
The followers of Lolth had thought themselves sure of victory in the coming battle, the Followers of the Silver Maiden where alone, cut off in their cavern home in the Leth'ah'nal Hills. The only true ally a Drow could have was other Drow, and they numbered a scant three dozen by measure of the scouts sent ahead, while they thronged in the hundreds. Victory was all but assured... or so they thought in their deep seeded arrogance.
Unlike them the Followers of Eilistraee had in the intervening months made every attempt no matter how far fetched or difficult, to make friends and allies among the other races of surrounding area, by show of good will and generosity they succeeded more then they could have ever hoped, a success that would pay due diligence this night, as the collection of Drow rangers, mages and warriors waited on the crest of a small hill, watching the thunderous approach of their shadowed kin, and the unspeaking allies they brought with them, Drider and abominations both.
The Lolth commander, a brash and arrogant male Drow Noble looked on from the opposing hill, a cocky smirk a league long run across his face, seeing the Drow waiting for their doom pleased him to no end, he chastised them further calling out to them as his blasted army assembled behind him;
"So you stand ready to meet your end and have your souls plucked and returned to Lolth kicking and screaming do you? Miserable little ingrates, this pain as been long forthcoming!" He boasted. Among the good Drow there was not but silence, before the band's leader, a female Drow cloaked in a white robe and carrying a staff stepped forward, her voice was wizened and mature, and made the brash Lolth noble sound like a impudent child when she rebuked his comment;
"Spoken like a true slave of Lolth's will, a soured cocktail of words spiked with arrogance and ignorance in equal measure. Go back to whence you came. You will taste no victory here." She spoke.
The Lolth commander's expression turned to disgusted anger where once had been a cock sure look of over blown ego, he barked in Drowish; " Ust llye fau'lad!" Which ordered his first line of warriors and skirmishers forward. "Venoch!" He yelled, his line charging forward, nearly a third of his forces now barreled towards the small hill intent to cut down the his bastard kin in warm blood, the archers behind readied a volley to proceed the slaughter but the brash noble stopped them, wanting them to die in melee, not at range.
As the Lolth attack thundered to within a stone's throw of Eilistraee's faithful did the err of the former become obvious; with a wave of her hand the cloak of obscurity was lifted and the large group of Orcs, Gnolls, High Elves and Dwarves in front of the good Drow was revealed. With a immense cry they surged forward meeting the advancing Lolth Drow, their sudden appearance catching them off guard and blunting their charge in a bloody counter attack.
In panic the formerly smug Lolth Commander ordered his second line to hastily reinforce the first, but by the times they readied to charge the first line had been routed, utterly crushed and cast aside as the combined forces of Eilistraee's faithful and their allies formed ranks and charged them back.
The Orcs and Gnolls spearheaded the attack, crashing into the second line as it barely readied for the attack. The Lolth were ruthless in close combat, but even they paled to the savage might of the burly Orcs and beastly Gnolls, who showed them first hand what a real savaging looked like.
The Dwarves, knowing full well they could not keep up with the front ranks instead fell back to the second row, forming a shield wall on either side of the spearhead, heavy tower shields and stout frames behind planted firmly to foil any attempts to flank their allies, the Lolth commander in his panicked ignorance soon obliged them sending his first and only reserve unit to flank on either side in a pincer attack.
He expected the short warriors to buckle with ease, but he knew nothing of the resolve and steadfast fighting of the Dwarves, who despite a few losses held unflinching, inflicting grievous losses on the flanking forces, sending them spiraling into a hasty retreat.
For their own part the High Elves of Linen'tyr Forest had stayed within the center of formation, Mages and bowman alike raining down focused fire on both the Lolth lines as they charged, and their own bastard archers that fumbled to failed to make any meaningful difference.
The Eilistraee faithful joined their highborne kin in the center, their own mages raised magical barriers that turned any Lolth fired arrow to dust when it passed through, their own archers focused on directly aiding the front and side lines with their short bows, taking any shot they could to ease the burden on Dwarves, Orcs and Gnolls. The few melee oriented among them joined the spearhead attack, if not for the massive distinction in how they dressed and thought they may have been mistaken for the Lolth skirmishers in the heat of battle, aid their brutish allies in dispatching one Lolth zealot after the other.
Arrogance long replaced with disbelief the Lolth commander could only watch in shock as his army was shredded, even the powerful Drider and monstrous aberrations they brought with them did little but slow down the meat grinder that was the combined forces arrayed against them.
Nearly two thirds of his forces has been wiped out, and the allies of Eilistraee rallied for the final push to wipe them out. A seething rage built up within in his blackened heart, unleashed in a might cry as he gathered all he had left for one final push. He found himself met in single combat by the very Priestess of Eilistraee who has chastised him earlier. Sword met staff in a again and again, before the commander reeled back with his free and hand fired a massive stream of shadowflame at the Priestess who had deftly countered all his enraged attacks.
She replied in kind, issuing forth a stream of blinding white Starfire that met his black flame in a magical meeting of the soul, each pushing against the other trying to overcome the other's power. But in short order he could his flame being pushed back inch by inch until with one powerful thrust of his hand her flame overcame his own, dispelling his magic and scorching his hand, making him fall to the ground defeated.
As he looked up the Priestess raised her staff to the clear night's sky above, and looking up to the meet the tip of her staff he realized in his final moments that the choice to fight the Eilistraee Drow thinking them alone and weak was his first mistake, but to challenge the power of her devoted priesthood on the night of the fullmoon when they and Eilistraee's power was at it's zenith would be the final one.
"I'm sorry for this, may the Dark Lady have mercy on your soul, child." Before he could react the Priestess channeled the power of the moonlight into her own self by way of her staff, her eyes shown glowing white as she issued forth a massive blast of holy white flame, the immolated the Lolth Drow form completely he screamed as he was overcome, turned to nothing in an instant and his soul flung far away, likely to either Lolth or Eilistraee's domain, the later the one the Priestess hoped for, that be may find peace in the next life.
The wave of power came to an end, and with it the last of the resolve of the Lolth troops that remained, seeing their leading obliterated utterly by the blessed power of Eilistraee no less broke them utterly and those that could scattered and ran, the combined allies of the Eilistraee Drow pursing them only a scant few yards, being asked ahead of time to reframed from running down those that ran, to which they all, even Orcs and Gnolls obliged.
When all was said and done all the remained of once mighty Spider Hag army was a small group that found themselves surrounded on all sides. A single Drider and four Drow stood there, all that they had thought and known shattered in a few terrifying minute of battle, with no chance to escape they dropped their weapons and fell to their knees.
The chieftain Galrak walked up the group, a look of sudden disgust came across his face, and he raised one of his scimitar to strike one of defeated Lolth Drow down but found his arm suddenly caught by a telekinetic force, stopping him before he swung. The Priestess, hand held aloft in his direction looked him the eyes, not uttering a single word she simply shook her head side to side. Remembering his agreement not to kill routed enemies Galrak took a few deep breaths to regain his composure, the Priestess releasing his hand to which he replied to by sheathing his sword and nodding to her, stepping back to allow her to hold sway on the defeated one's fate.
The male Drow nearly struck down, looked up to the Priestess as she approached, the Dwarven Thane Thorin spoke up; "They are nary yer kin. It is for yeh to pass judgment upon 'em." The defeated Drow spoke up in reply, addressing the Priestess; "We... We submit... t-to... Eilistraee's will." The Priest replied abruptly; "You will submit to no one." Shocked by her reply he looked up wide eyed to her, before she knelt down with a smile and placed a hand on either side of his battered and bruised face. " Eilistraee doesn't want you to submit to anyone child, she only wishes you to be free. If you are willing, we can show you the path." She spoke.
He looked backed to the other four who nodded to him, to which he then spoke for them all, saying; "Then we will... walk... that path." The priestess nodded to him, motioning for several of her attendants to come over, the throngs of allies parting like waves to let them through. Two bore bandages, they without word or complaint disrobed all five penitent, seeing to their wounds before the third handed each a simple white robe with which to dress themselves. Even the Drider was healed and give a robe, for even as abominable as she was, still deserved to walk the path of freedom with her Drow kin.
The three then beckoned the five to follow them into the hillside home of the Eilistraee Drow, so that they may begin their journey towards redemption in earnest. All the while the priests and shamans of the other races where tending to the injured and dead alike, true to allies all worked together to see to the most injured first, regardless of their race, and gave proper rite to those who had made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of hearth and home of friend.
"The battle is over. The war is long in the distance. But now, the healing can being." Loth'mar spoke up, standing abreast with the Priestess and the other leaders. "Yes, I believe so." She replied to him.
For what had they done to earn such friends you ask?
The Dwarves of Karen'don to the east where the first among them, if not the most hesitant to ally with the good aligned Drow. Their knowledge of poisons, and their cures had been instrumental in curing a outbreak of strange poisonous gas that had flooded their mines, succeeding in not only finding the source and cleansing the air but also curing the many deathly sick Dwarves who had been exposed. This had earned the High Thane's undying respect, and he signed a pact of mutual assistance on that very day.
So it was that day when word arrived of an impending attack did the High Thane instruct his eldest son and Thane, Thorin Stoutheart to take a detachment of Stalwards to march to the Leth'ah'nal at once to defend their ally's home.
Eilistraee's children found quick friends among the Orcish tribe lead by the Chieftain Galrak Bonebreaker, who themselves had broken off from the brutal ways of their kin. They feigned the norms in battle or with visiting "dignitaries" from other tribes, but in truth no longer beat abd belittled the young, woman or the elderly. It was the eldest of the tribe, a gnarled old Shaman whom had heard whispers of the Drow's silver goddess from the spirits for many years before the day they met in earnest. Even Galrak bowed to the old one's wisdom, and allied with the Drow, saying they need only call if ever there was need, the emissary of Eilistraee agreed and in kind noted should anything be needed by the tribe they would assistance as they could.
That time of need came soon enough, and it took only a single word for Galrak to rally his kin to banner of the Eilistraee's Choosen. He personally lead them to stand with the Drow, ready to honor Orcish and Drow ancestors both in the din of battle.
The Gnolls where simply mercenaries, come to pay a debt owed to one particular Drow among Eilistraee's devote, who that was or what the favor was they where repaying they would not say, only that their savage warriors would fight and die to repay that debt.
The Elves where the hardest to convince of all their allies. T'was not surpassing when one stopped to consider it. Drow and Elves had a enmity as old as time itself, since when the two had been one race in ages long past. They would not allow any Drow to approach without stern warning to turn back under pain of death from nocked arrows and drawn bows, to which to their surprise the Drow complied each time, until one faithful day when a single white cloaked Drow approached them by herself.
When asked her name and what she was doing she merely replied; "I am the Lady in White. I bare nothing but myself, and my wish to speak of peace." The elves did not trust her anymore then those who had came before, arms outstretched and empty as her's where they demanded she prove she was unarmed. The Drow without a word undid the sash of her simple robe and let it fall aside, without so much as a hint of pride she stood nude before them, unashamed and unafraid.
The Elves shocked by the display agreed to allow her through, beckoning her to re-cloth herself and follow them, but she did not the former, following them naked all the way to their village hidden deep in the forest to seek audience with the clan's leader, a powerful elven seer by the name of Loth'mer Rali'mor.
She stood in front of him, arms parted in gesture of good tidings, eyes wide and lips smiling as she spoke to him. "I bring only tidings of peace from the children of Eilistraee. Peer into my mind noble seer. See for your own self that I have nothing to hide." Surprised by her offer he none the less obliged her, using his powers he probed the deepest depth of her mind and souls, though no matter how deep he delved how hard he scryed he could find nothing obscured to him her mind was laid as bare to him as her body was to all around then, nor could he either sense the tiniest hint of malcontent in her thoughts.
Satisfied he ended his probing, and addressed her proper, saying there could be peace between their people, but the old wounds would make a lasting friendship a long road to travel. The Lady in White bowed her head replying that it was as much as could has asked for, thanking him she departed, and despite being offered her robe back by an eleven warrior who had picked it up for her she urged they keep it, as a token of friendship. So did the Drow leave them, walking all the way home to Leth'ah'nal wearing nothing but her own skin.
And despite that long road they had yet to travel as allies when a messenger arrived to the elves of need of warriors to defend the Drow's home Loth'mer obliged, personally leading a band of their finest ranger and mages to fight alongside them in their hour of need.
T'was on that night in the halls of the Drow home that a celebration was held, Orc, Dwarf, Elf and even Gnoll, drank, and sung and made merry together, entertained by the unclothed but not uncouth dancing of the grateful priesthood of Eilistraee.
The lesson on this day was two fold, that he who made only slaves and foes from those he met, would one day stand alone and fall with no one at their side, and that when one stands with ally and friend not even the fiercest storm could rout the resolve of kinship and friend.
Gallows Tree Executioner. Easy killing of condemned criminals, no mortal guilt from having to pull the lever and easy corpse removal. Zombies can be it's attendants, read the condemned their last rights, ect.
This isn't necessarily related to Pathfinder, as this is intended to a Fate game with homebrew elements to fit the setting I'm creating. If it's against the rules to post anything here not related directly to Pathfinder then I'm sorry, but I'm asking this as I don't know of a larger group of tabletop players from which to pool answers for a solution to my problem.
Said problem as the title says is I'm looking for something that could help me create top down vehicles, some very large, some rather small. Why would you need this in Fate you ask? Well I want to have a constantly updating map to use with Roll20, so everyone has an idea of where they are at any given point, so they don't have to constantly have to scroll back through the chat to remember where they where, and for basic things like line of sight and the complications of getting somewhere in a single "turn" or if they have a line of sight to a enemy.
I won't spoil much but the story will take place on a large "land train" basically a series of massive armored cars being towed through an endless desert non-stop through a desert over the course of a few in-game weeks. Said train will be constantly harassed by your standard post apoc "wasters" who will take with various vehicles, from buggies to "boarding buses" and try to get aboard to fight them.
Which is why I want to have a "battle map" that I can drop in the various cars and what not and have tokens on the represent where everyone is. Anyone know of a free program or trick I could use to make what I'm looking for?
You and I are kin more then you know Umbral. I also have an amazing creative streak, but my bipolar, ADD and depression have sidetracked my life into such a ditch I often wonder how I fell so far.
If I don't get off track while writing I get bummed out from something completely unrelated and leave my work half finished, that and what I do accomplish takes longer then it should, so I over think what I've done until I'm bored with it altogether.
Being unemployed money barriers often raise my ire, I too suffer from bouts of inner rage, yet I'm the only one who is worse for it. I hope it makes you feel better you are not alone, I know it does for me.
I've long been confused when a bestiary and race entry conflict with one another, even if they are from the same source. I guess I can chalk it up to different author's takes on race.
A simple question, I know almost all goblins are, and though they are a separate race I've always thought of them as a mid point between Goblins and Half-Orcs/Orcs as far as what they are capable of. I'm not sure if Orcs are universally illiterate Pathfinder paints them as brainless brutes so much I doubt most of them could even learn to read and write if they wanted to.
Not going off of what anyone else has said and speaking from my own experiences I have to say the Paladin will fit you well if you seek a jack of all trades helper class. Despite how some people feel I've always considered the Paladin at heart a hybrid of a Fighter and Cleric, with a few tricks neither possesses that really sets them apart.
Paladins play well as the "holy tank of nope", Constantly putting themselves in the way of attacks, cleansing allies of debuffs and keeping them in the fight, while marshaling them to be the best they can be. "You gonna curse my ally with fear magic? Nope I'm gonna force you to cast that on me instead, but lol! I'm immune to fear effects!", "You gonna curse my ally with mummy rot as he's already bleeding out after reaching zero hitpoints? Nope! I'm gonna turn your undead ass away and then cure that disease, stabilize my friend and then come turn your ass into a pile of dust and bandages!"
Offensively I find them lacking, unless undead or evil outsiders (or their defined evil mortal henchman), in which case only Clerics outshine them in dealing directly with enemies, even then a Cleric is much squishier then a Paladin, as most if not all invest in heavy armor as soon as they can, so they can dish out as much as they can take, if not more.
I've always loved Paladin's lorewise, as unlike the more unthinking Crusader Cleric, Paladins never forget their humility, and don't let their zeal turn into bloodlust, it's like Uther told Arthas in Warcraft III: "Remember, Arthas, we are paladins. Vengeance cannot be a part of what we must do. If we allow our passions to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the Orcs."
Crusaders may give into blind zeal but a Paladin refrains from doing this at all cost for the above reason, if he does do so, and he's not stripped of his powers he's exceedingly repetitive just the same. This point brings up the age old Paladin conundrums more... unscrupulous GMs like throw at PC Paladins; aka having to choose between "being lawful or being good".
I'll just spoil the answer for you right now, if forced into that choice, [b]always choose to be good[b/]. It's a hundred times easier to repent for being unlawful then it is to repent for not being good. You may not even need to repent at all, depending on what "law" you broke. If you have to break down someone's door in broad daylight to stop an evil cultist mid ritual because the whole town was in danger it's easier to explain that to the Magistrate and local guards after the fact then why you cut down the cultist in cold blood in the middle of the street without being attacked or provocated first.
Both are equally "wrong" but one is much more easier to justify then the other, despite both being done with the intent to do the right thing in the end.
Deities are a tough choice, not sure what setting you are planning to play in, or if it's homebrew but if you have to choose a god choose a god of justice but one not without mercy, the concept of forgiveness, redemption and mercy are very important to truly experiencing play as a Paladin. For my own part I prefer Paladins who eschew deities altogether, and instead fight for a concept, or just "good for goodness sake", like the original origin of the "Holy Light" from Warcraft III before the whole "Naaru of Light" thing spoiled the concept.
As for equipment and the like, I can only make a few suggestions based on what I know and feels works, I don't play much so take it for what you will. I'd suggest investing in a good set of armor to start with, prioritize defense over offense, you should easily be able to afford a set of scale armor with your starting gold, then I'd choose a one handed weapon and a shield if you are feeling tanky or your party needs one, a good shield will never be a bad investment. If tank is covered and you are feeling a little more "Hammer of Justice" then "Bulwark of Hope" a two handed weapon is a good investment.
Speaking of weapons while a sword is always a solid choice for any martial class blunt weapons are more of a Paladin standard, undead tend to be little effected by edged weapons, a skeleton feels no pain so a cut to his boney rib cage even if breaks a few ribs won't slow him down like it would a human, but smash his arm off with a mace, and he won't be using that arm to attack you anymore. Heavy Mace for one handed along with a Light/Heavy Steel Shield or a Warhammer for two handed.
Stat spread depends on (assuming this a point buy, which I feel safe in doing) depends a lot of what kind of Paladin you wanna be. Do you wanna be the tough "no nonsense champion of light"? Favor Endurance and Wisdom over Charisma, invested as much Strength as needed. If you want to be more the "leader of the common man" favor Charisma and Wisdom over Strength and Endurance, if you rally the hearts and minds of the people overwhelming martial prowess might not be needed in the first place, but invest enough of the later two to get by all the same.
Stat choice is more tweaking to personal tastes in my honest opinion. That's all I've got, I hope I've helped, sorry if my advice is less "building" and more "lore and purpose" I always value the later to the former when RPing. :D
On talk of killing innocents, which includes children and the elderly we have to remember life isn't fair, and can be very cruel sometimes. Knowingly murdering an innocent is an evil act by mortal standards, I won't even try to argue that point as that's what I believe personally.
But in war good people die, it can be largely avoided but never entirely. Let's imagine this; You are a soldier part of a small unit fighting in a war torn enemy city, the enemy is mostly routed from the city and your unit is chasing down one or more fleeing enemy soldiers.
Said soldiers end up holding up in abandoned house, instead of risking going in and into an ambush you're unit decides to fire bomb the house instead of taking the risk going in, the house burns to the ground, collapses into the heap, killing the soldiers inside. The battle eventually winds down, your side is victorious and then sometime later while digging through the wreckage of said house from earlier you are shocked to find not only the charred bodies of the hold up soldiers but a whole family who was also taking shelter in that house.
Your briefing said the city was evacuated of all civilians, and that only combatants where left inside it's walls, but either your Intel was wrong or for whatever reason that family couldn't or wouldn't leave. So congratulations! You just murdered innocent civilians, are you evil now? The answer for most people is; no.
Had your unit suspected/known that innocents where inside you most certainly would have acted differently, either risked a breach of the house or ordered the combatants to surrender with hopes they, and the civilians, would comes out without having to die. The ultimate truth is in war people die, and there is no rewind button, there is no do overs or loading checkpoints, despite what you could have done what you did do is what happened. Soldiers IRL are wracked for life by events just like this, PTSD encompasses a wide range of situations, not just bread and butter "shell shock".
Also this whole talk of "do you kill goblin children" reminds me of the endless theoretical debates on the internet of "would you kill baby Hitler", to which I answer to both in one response with; "No."
No I would not kill baby Hitler if I somehow could, simple put when he was a baby he was innocent, he had not yet become the evil megalomaniac Jew slaughtering monster we know and loathe today, he may have became a monster, but he wasn't born as one.
Let's change history for example; Let's say that after the end of WWI France got talked down by the allies so they never imposed the heavy war reparations on Germany, opting for a more modest long term reimbursement in it's place. Germany never fell into it's massive post WWI depression, life was little tough, but not nearly as bad. Hilter coming home from the war as a low ranking message carrier, seeing Germany was all and all not doing to bad gave up his soldiering and political ambitions, instead decided to embrace and refine his passion from art, (say what you want about his morals IRL but he was a pretty good painter) becoming a well renowned artist.
Now instead of being remembered as one of the most hated human beings of all time he is remembered as talented painter who fought in the first world war as a simple soldier. Without the post war depression to fuel his hatred and make him establish his Nazi party, he never became the abhorrent monster we read about today. Granted changing anything about history would cause an unknowable amount of changes that no mortal mind or super computer could comprehension but I digress, my point is made. Hitler for all his evil was a victim of circumstance, all mortals are, I consider Orcs, Goblins, Gnolls, Orges, Drow and Naga no different.
I'm just happy to be among like minded people who agree while Tolkien set the foundation for the modern fantasy genre that some of the dated tropes need to be left behind.
Bearded female Dwarves, and always evil mook races among them.
What's wrong with bearded female Dwarves?
(By the way, bearded female humans can be found on very rare occasion -- I one works at the same institution where I work, although in a different department. It's presumably a mutation -- who says that such a mutation couldn't be common in the Dwarven population?)
Also, different Humanoid races (technically, they should really be called species and sub-species, depending on interbreedability) are definitely more different than different Human races on Earth -- the different different aging rates and different abilities should be proof enough.
Different? Yes. By a significant margin? No, I think not. And life span equates very little. I mean Parrots outlive many other species of avians are they "alien" or "utterly different" for the reason of long life? What about giant tortoises? Are they alien to other shorter lived reptiles?
All mortal fantasy races have the same goals, to survive, reproduce and thrive. Each race has different ways they seek to accomplish these goals. Those "evil" races rarely take the time to consider their actions, they are "good" in their own eyes, surviving, thriving as they can do.
Sure. You can have it be that way. But there is absolutely no reason a mortal race could not have hard coded biological evil nature. Certain behaviors that are just instinctual that fit on the evil spectrum. There is absolutely no reason that every mortal race will experience the same entire moral spectrum as humans or have the same middle set point by nature, even if raised by those who are 'good'.
They are not humans in rubber forehead and ear prosthetics.
Aren't they? Orcs, Goblins, Gnolls, Drow and many more are classified as "humanoids" which implies numerous similarities. I firmly believe nurture holds more sway then nature in cases of sentient, free thinking creatures.
In there world the difference between an Orc and Human is no wider then the difference between a Caucasian and a Asian in our world. Riddle me this; If I took the phrase "All Orcs are evil because they are Orcs" and replaced Orcs so it now said "All Arabs are evil because they are Arabs", does that seem right to you?
A few... "closed-minded" people and groups might agree with that statement, but most of us will say "Of course not! That's stupid, bias and racist." But replace Arabs with Orcs again and everyone will say; "Well they are Orcs now, so it's different..."
Alien races that are biologically not human can have innate behavioral considerations which would not fit in the box called 'good'. They are, in fact, alien mindsets not humans in rubber forehead costumes. So I have no philosophical trouble with the potential existence of inherently evil - or inherently good - races. It is just how the mechanics of their mind physically and chemically works.
Reminds me of how Shoddy Cast explained the motivations of the Daedric Princes from the Elder Scrolls series. How "good" and "evil" are in fact mortal concepts, and as immortal all powerful beings they have no restrictions to such mortal definitions.
But mortals are not stone like gods are, we are clay in manner of speaking, molded by the world around us and what we experience in life. Orcs are mostly a savage cruel race of warmongers, but it's only because every Orc born is born into that world around them, they grow up to become "evil" because that's what everyone around them is, and how they are raised to be themselves.
Take a baby orc and raise him in a place where he taught value for life and respect for elders and that outright war is a last resort and you won't end up with an "evil" Orc. Sure some of the primal rage might come out now and again but humans can be just as compulsive sometimes, it's very much a 90% nurture 10% nature split.
Though I do get the feeling that unless a member of the development team calls him up and says he's wrong, he STILL won't believe it.
He probably still wouldn't believe it, kinda like how Francis still wouldn't believe Peter was a good father in Family Guy despite him going through the trouble of dragging the freakin' Pope to meet his father and tell him so in person.
Moral of the story, some people are so set in there ways no amount of reason will budge them. You can tell him I said that too, if you want. :P
EDIT:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hi Vagrant Dog's GM. I'm Mark Seifter, and I designed the kineticist class. Kinetic blast doesn't require a save unless you use a version that specifies one, just like Vagrant Dog said. The save DC is for things like an AoE blast with Reflex half or a substance infusion that adds a status effect.
Holy Mother! It's the Holy Father!
*gets down on his knees and does whatever the Tabletop Nerd equivalent is of the Sign of the Cross ("Sign of the D20" maybe?)*
And seriously? Have you even read any of the books? There are PLENTY of non-evil Undead, and even more non-evil Orcs and Goblins spread throughout Paizo products. There is also a non-evil Drow that I'm aware of. Not sure about Duergar because I'm not really that interested in them so I haven't...
I freaking love you so much right now. <3
Shamelessly snipping to say Dawwwww, Thankies ^w^
I'm just happy to be among like minded people who agree while Tolkien set the foundation for the modern fantasy genre that some of the dated tropes need to be left behind.
Bearded female Dwarves, and always evil mook races among them.
And seriously? Have you even read any of the books? There are PLENTY of non-evil Undead, and even more non-evil Orcs and Goblins spread throughout Paizo products. There is also a non-evil Drow that I'm aware of. Not sure about Duergar because I'm not really that interested in them so I haven't...
I freaking love you so much right now. <3
And not to witch hunt or anything Johnny, but you strike me heavily as the "staunch traditionalist" type of Pathfinder player. Like one of those Codex worshiping chapters of Space Marines from 40k, who blindly follow every word written in the Codex Astarte without out actually thinking about the meaning before hand;
"It is the codex, it is the law, this is THE EMPEROR'S DIVINE WILL IN WRITTEN FORM, PURGE HERTICS-ragflaglfaga-!"
Dealing with the Sinkhole Vine is a matter of speed and forethought, with a dash on luck. For instants a party that doesn't know/bring items with cold and fire based proprieties they will struggle to do any meaningful damage to it, the vines are in their own way separate "creatures", they get their own turns to move and act despite being attached to the Vine, much in the way Gallows Zombies are to a Gallows Tree.
Wasting time killing the vines makes the Sinkhole Vine "summon" more to replace them, even adding more if the fight drags on too long. Each time it has to after about 2d3 vines the GM has to start rolling to see if the walls or ceiling start to buckle.
If it starts to get unstable some party members who have skills that might help stabilize the area, like a druid or sorcerer might have to break off of the fight and use their abilities to buy them all more time.
Luck plays a factor as well, and how kind or cruel the GM is feeling at the moment. A smart party will convince the local magistrate or mayor of the severity of the problem first, then have him order the residents to evacuate the city before hand, but they might not be able to convince him without some charismatic party members or convincing proof.
A person successfully justifies their actions, because the minimum requirement to be good is to apparently believe that all your actions are good. This section does not even insinuate that the good character may have acted against his ideals. In fact, his good ideals where what lead him to commit the killing in the first place.
What the hell does it matter if Gorum advocates murder or not? The wanton destruction of life and property that inevitably occurs in wartime can hardly be considered Neutral unless, again, we bend over backwards justifying things. Just because you didn't want any non-combatants to die doesn't free you from the fact that you knowingly committed an act which would cause the death of said non-combatant.
Pathfinder is high fantasy. All undead are evil. All Non-PC goblins are evil. All Non-PC Orcs are evil. All Non-PC Drow are evil. All Non-PC Duergar are evil. Evil and good are inherent to a creature, so much so that they can be detected. For the cost of only a 5th level spell slot a character can remove the moral consequences of pretty much any of their actions. An entire class is based on finding and killing evil things. The PCs are rarely, if ever, even introduced to a situation where they can do something wrong.
All Drow too? I've so far thrown away those old conventions I find it almost fantasy racism to call them as a race evil with no gray areas. Hate me from bringing them up but I do love Blizzard for at least taking the time to explain WHY they were evil instead of pulling a Tolkien and saying "they're evil and sod the reasons why".
Chaotic Neutral is actually the alignment I choose for my character in progress Dungar Stonecracker the Dwarven Armored Hulk (Barbarian).
"I'm Drunk, I'm pissed, who wants and asskicking?"
He isn't doesn't really give a shat about good and evil, but doesn't go around murdering people, nor does he go off on a pointless quest because some hoity toity Cleric told him to.
He's generally nice and follows most laws, unless he gets stonefaced drunk, then he might get in trouble for a variety of reasons. But if your nice to him he'll reply in kind, especially if you buy him a beer or a dozen.
If said person gets in trouble with a gang of thugs just as Dungar is stumbling out of said bar, he's more then happy step up in their defense to repay his debt to them, besides any "good" excuse to kick someone's ass is a happy bonus for him.
A concept I have been mulling about with in my head for quite a while, thought I'd share and see what everyone else thinks;
Spoiler:
The creature known by commoners as a Sinkhole Vine is a creature capable of single handily dropping whole settlements into the hidden chasm it has dug beneath.
Scholars are unsure of of the beast's exact origin, but research into them (with more then a little concurring knowledge passed on from Druid orders), have come to the near universal conclusion that despite looking like a plant the creature is in fact an affront to nature in all it's forms, ones even druids willingly purge when found.
The Sinkhole Vine is dangerous not for is ferocity but for it's subtly. The vines grow from seedlings over the course of decades and sometimes centuries, year by years eroding and consuming earth and stones to fuel their growth, reaching further and further towards the surface, all the while creating massive sinkholes beneath them, for which their name comes from.
Most unsettling of all is these vines, despite not being innately carnivorous are almost always found to take root under stabilized settlements of humanoids. It's theorized by some that the creature harbors some innate hatred towards humanoid and the settlements they build, but are also no guardians of nature as other misunderstood creatures like Treants are.
This is because the stone and earth they devour is utterly destroyed, consumed to allow the beast to grow to truly colossal size. In short, unlike every other known plant the Sinkhole takes from nature without ever giving anything back.
Yet still it seeks to reproduce as other plants and animals do, but only once it has succeed in it's task of collapsing villages, towns and in the case of larger varieties whole towns or forts. Once it succeeds and nothing remains put a massive gaping chasm open to the sky and elements the beast undergoes a starting metamorphosis. it's usually sickly green tendrils covered in green and inner purplish leaves slowly wither away turning into lifeless gnarled roots.
Drawing all of it's life force towards the massive tangled core that is it's true "mind" it forms a single giant polyp like growth, slowly building in size and pressure until after a week or more the mass finally explodes with immense force, killing itself and sending hundreds of thousands of small, windborne seedlings into the air, counting on the force of the blast the prevailing winds to spread it's children far and wide.
The overwhelming majority of these seeds end up either consumed by various wildlife like birds and small animals like mice and squirrels, and those that do land in inhospitable non-temperate terrain like mountains and deserts have no chance to take root, even those that land in open places like fields and forests wither and die, despite plenty all other forms of plants being able to flourish or at least make due in such places, once again pointing to it's unnatural origin.
Only the scant few seeds that find their way towards caves and ravines take root, even then they grow slowly and do little damage, those that find their way beneath villagers and cities, such as being sucked into a sewer grate or into a sturdy cave network a fortress was built over.
Dealing with mature, growing Sinkhole Vines is a matter of timing. If found to late then destroying the malevolent creature may very well cause a partial or entire collapse of the terrain above it, as it's inching tendrils are the only thing keeping the terrain semi stable, even if full intends to collapse it all into the void beneath.
If discovered to early when it's crevice home is too removed from the surface it may be to difficult to remove, miners having to spends years trying to dig to it's location, all the while the creature growing larger and causing even more irreversible damage.
The "sweet spot" for finding a Sinkhole Vine is when the beast has dug a big enough hole to be noticed by discovery or chance, but the ground above is still stable and sure enough that once removed it can be left be or buttressed by man made supports to keep it from total collapse, these works cannot be done while the creature still lives, as it will actively seek out and destroy works of wood and metal, and consume those of stone and earth like it does so normally.
The creatures are known by druids and natural loreists to be at least semi sentient, but those few who have tried to commune with it's conscious report a detached, unknowable conscious, like the profaned mind of eldritch horror. The very act of trying to commune with it sends the beast into a panicked frenzy, as if the projection of consciousness pains it to no end, something it simply cannot understand despite Druids and other like vocations having the talent to communicate with normal flora without problem.
Combating and destroying a Sinkhole Vine can be just as arduous of an endeavor as reaching it in the first place. The giant core mass itself has no maw or other orifice to speak of, but is often tough and covered in matted tangled vines that prove proof against blunt weapons and the slashing of swords and other light edged weapons. Only the haft of a swung axe or greatsword, or the powerful thrust of spear or dagger seem to have any noticeable effect, even then only a moderate one.
What truly affects a Sinkhole Vine is fire. The beast loathes and actively stays away from any source of flame or heat, and it reels in pain if set alight by fire, mundane, magical or otherwise, it also has no love for cold, becoming brittle and is easily hewn apart by might once frozen. It holds no special resistance to acid or electricity but no weakness either.
If attacked a Sinkhole vine will relate by uprooting some of it's vines and whipping them at it's attackers, using it's innate tremor sense to find and attempt to grapple and squeeze them to death or simple dropping large vines of them like large cudgels to crush them utterly.
This is dangerous for more then the obvious reasons that come from fighting a giant creature, namely that as vines are hack or burned off and rendered useless the monster will pull more and more of it's tendrils off to fight back, weakening the earthen walls all around it and it's aggressors. Every newly replaced vine risks total collapse of the space it occupies, and such a collapse with likely be utterly fatal for the dauntless heroes, and even if they do escape there is no guarantee the collapse will be enough to kill the Sinkhole Vine, it may simply be delayed for a few years or a decade almost, to make sure it's dead it would have to be dug out and set alight, a grim prospect given that it's ultimate goal of destabilizing the world above may be partially or fully completed.
If successfully killed Sinkhole Vines are known to quake and tremble in it's death throes before collapsing motionless, all it's vines falling so as well as over the course of few minutes it's body turns gnarled and lifeless, decaying into nothing after no more then a few hours, but not creating or spreading any seeds either, as it failed to reach that cycle in it's life.
Battles such as this inevitably breed speculation on who or what brought such a horrible mockery of nature into being in the first place. Druids have encountered such profane things for centuries, having heard, read and told about encounters with things matching the description of Sinkhole Vines dating back thousands of years.
Some theorize the beast was born of particularly spiteful one of their order, a Druid so antagonized by humanoid kind's progress at the cost of nature sought in spite to seek vengeance on them, but rejected by nature's will as she seeks only to exist, as such instead of working with and benefiting nature, profaned and bent her to their will, bringing life to a bastard child of nature and the unknown, an act nature surely never forgave.
So that's all I have, what do you think everyone? I feel this creature would serve as an end of arc goal for a party, perhaps their ultimate goal for the adventure or just one chapter of it. A lot rides on killing the beast quickly before it causes even more damage, the surviving denizens of a collapsed city will likely not be to kind to bungling adventurers who ended up causing more harm then good after all.
Anyhow looking for any suggestions or constructive feedback you guys have.
Found this interesting feat while trolling the SRD, but I'm little confused by it vagueness; http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bounding-hammer-combat
It only says you can do it with hammers, yet doesn't define what qualifies AS a hammer. I'm starting to wonder if a Mace or club would count as they are in the same class of weapon as a hammer, even a Piston Maul would count as maul is just another word for hammer.
Any thoughts? Or should I just leave this feat's exact definition to GM's discretion?
So I'm making a Dwarf Armored Hulk, one who is something of a layabout drunkard who tends to fall asleep (read: pass out on the floor from drinking to much) in heavy armor, and rarely if ever bothers to take his armor off while adventuring.
At first I thought taking the Endurance feat would be enough, but it only counteracts fatigue from medium armor. There;s also an armor truss to prop up the armor so he can get into it on his own, but that's a lot of work and extra weight to lug around, and is outside his character being a lazy drunk of a dwarf.
So, suggestions for preventing/curing fatigue from sleeping in heavy armor, open to any ideas.
So I am thinking of making a Dwarven Armored Hulk (Barbarian) for a 20 point buy, 5 level start game and I'm wondering if the Armored Hulk's Armored Swiftness (Ex) would be waste on account of the Dwarf racial Slow and Steady trait.
Any thoughts? I'm interested in hearing from anyone else whose made a Dwarven Armored Hulk, on the benefits and drawbacks encountered playing one.
I think quite a few classes are viable in pre-ancient times, I'll explain below;
Spoiler:
Fighter - We've been fighting long before we even had a specialized group of people to do it for us, let alone weapons to arm them with. In a uncivilized world where you have to fight just to survive, fighters would be plentiful. Things like heavy armor would be unheard of, unless the group runs into the forerunners of modern Dwarves and are gifted a set of Stone Plate as a gift for helping them, but more on that later. Even shields aren't a massive stretch of the imagination, hide stretched over a wooden frame.
Rogue - Sneaking is nothing new to ancient peoples. What is a rogue? Someone who sneaks very, very well and knows how to make the first strike the most deadly. Rogues could be refined hunters of society, when you get right down to it the difference between hunting unintelligent animals and intelligent combatants is negligible. Rogues are masters of surprise and ambush through use of sneaky tricks to gain the upper hand, throwing dirt into an opponent's eyes, coating one's flint dagger in the poison of a deadly viper because he's seen what the poison does to the snake's prey, all extremely believable.
Shaman - This class fits very well in my opinion. Save maybe tying with a druid, this is the most primitive class I can think of. Here instead of being outcasted sticklers to the "old ways" they are the founders of the "modern ways" of magic, communing with the spirits of the world around them, seeking enlightenment for the betterment of their tribes.
They would fit well for leaders or at least advisors of the tribes, perhaps the one who gives the party it's chance to try to convince the other members that uniting and overthrowing the Troglodytes is actually a feasible endeavor and not an impossible goal, as I'm sure most human tribes assume it would be.
Druid - The first druids weren't taught by other druids, they where taught by nature herself. So Druids make perfect sense, like the Shaman more in this setting then the "modern" setting of most Fantasy worlds. Advocates for nature perhaps the Troglodytes have become too destructive towards nature, burning swaths of land to build their cities, or just out of spite not having any admiration for nature's beauty or place in the world. Sooner or later nature will just have had enough and while her advocate and mediator Druids are also her wrathful avengers.
Ranger - A ranged hunter with an animal companion, makes total sense. I mean wolves where the first creatures ancient man ever made friends with, it was as simple as the wolves leaving their pack to join ours. We are both pack animals after all. In a fantasy setting then it would be perfectly believable for them to find kinship with other creatures through mutual respect and gain.
A tribe after all needs skilled hunters and trackers to keep tabs on the going ons in their territory. Weapons like bows would likely be off the table unless contact with primitive wood elves and a beneficial agreement would bestow the craft onto to human kind, along with the training to use them. Still a thrown spear or sling would make sense for the setting.
Paladin - I've long loved more then a Paladin devoted to a deity the Paladin that believes in "good for goodness sake", drawing power from the unseen forces of order and right and being the champion of those who can't defend themselves. The concept has jived with me, in large part thanks to Warcraft's concept of "The Holy Light", that good just is, and anyone can fight for it if they put their hearts into and are willing to go above and beyond when mortals are threatened.
Perhaps a great warrior was captured by the Troglodytes and relentlessly tortured but he never once relented, no matter how they tried to break him he would never bow to them, spiting in defiance. Perhaps so moved was the unseen forces of righteousness that just when he was to be struck down for good that a flash of light blinded his attackers and broke his bindings, giving him them the strength to fight his way out, perhaps liberating other captives as well. Ever since he's found he has access to strange and wonderful powers that allow him to heal the innocent and smite the wicked.
And being a stickler for old school paladins I'd see his weapon of choice being a two handed stone maw, all the better to crush the tyrannical Troglodytes with. Paladins are the hammer of the Light, after all.
Bard - When you get down to it, Bards are magical storytellers, through song and dance they make amazing things happen, while remaining competent combatants all the while. But where did those stories come from? Well you have to venture out into the wide open world to see those stories from yourself, or mayhap be part of that group that writes those stories that others will sing and dance about for ages. I can see a bard working without much fuss.
Sorcerer - Sorcerers derive their magical through innate means that they barely understand, it's a life long pursuit to understand their otherworldly powers, and nowhere better to find the true extent of their abilities then unleashing them on the oppressive Troglodytes whom I'm sure have been less then happy about humans developing otherworldly powers. I would limit however, the number of possible bloodlines to ones that would make sense. I doubt outsiders like demons in the like have yet to really take an interest in humanity just yet, they'd be more interested in making pacts with the evil Troglodytes. Still more... "primal" Bloodlines would make sense.
Cleric - This one is tough but like Dan said if they weave a good yarn about how it would be possible I'd allow it. For my own thoughts I'd say the leader of a tribe that worships the sun could work. They believe the sun has power, as no matter how cruel and oppressive the Troglodytes get the sun rises every to greet humanity no matter how bad things seem to get. Maybe this veneration is reward with power to heal the sick and give hope to people that there may yet be a better world for them.
Once again this the powers of the Light coming from overarching fount of goodness in the world, instead of a specific deity. Or perhaps the deity empowering them has yet to give them a face or name yet, and simply chooses to remain faceless and nameless, or doesn't have either yet, still trying to figure out who "they" are in the first place. Lots of possibilities.
Gunslingers - Magic shooting "spirit sticks"... All my yes. Just... all of it. Dan I freakin' love you dude that's brilliant. I don't know what more I could add on this, save that "reloading" the spirit stick involves doing a dance or chanting until the painted marking start glowing again to symbolize it's "loaded" and ready to fire again.
Cavalier - If ancient man in this setting befriended animals their own size or smaller, it's no stretch of the imagination for a few devoted animal friends to have made peace with some beasts that are plenty big enough to ride and willing to allow their human pals to ride them in battle, bareback or with a primitive saddle, I mean modern saddles are complicated but what isn't? It's a piece of padded leather affixed to make riding more comfortable for both parties. Add in a long spears or other primitive pole arm and you've got yourself a Beast Rider!
Wizard - You're a wizard Oogar! Haha. But seriously like others said trade scrolls and books for counting beads and small painted glyphs on treated animal hide. All the same I'd limit access to any magic that seems "civilized" or too advanced and complex for any magical class, Sorcerer included. Though you could different Wizards by the fact they constantly push the line and embark to use far more dangerous and complex magic as opposed to the sorcerers who stick to what they know and learn little by little.
Oracle - Once again Oracles fall into the same slot as sorcerers in such a setting, they don't understand where they powers come from, only that they have them and it "means something", so it's a life quest to find what it all means and why, meanwhile using their otherworldly powers to advise and protect their people, so a shared role with the Shaman.
Vigilante - MIGHTY MIGHTOR!!! Haha, sorry I couldn't resist, but you never know, it could work here too.
Monk - When you break a monk down to their core values they are individuals who seek spiritual enlightenment through the pursuit of physical perfection. Once again it's not that big of a stretch in prehistoric times. Replace the far flung monastery with a remote mountain top, away from all the bedlam in the lands below and you have all the hallmarks of a foundation for a monk order.
It could be, and probably did just start with one person, a warrior thought killed in a battle or while hunting, but once he or she found themselves still alive where so moved by their experience as to choose to remain away from their people to seek answers to how they managed to survive, and to pursue those answers by constantly pushing themselves to the limit of which mortal kind is capable of.
So that covers the bulk of my thoughts on classes, but have you thought about other races at all? I had some thoughts on them as well;
Spoiler:
Dwarves - These are dwarves long before they came to the surface in earnest, perhaps the ones encountered by the heroes only recently broke through to the blinding light of the surface, as such re-frame from leaving due to fear of the unknown and the fact their darkness adjusted eyes can't cope with the light of sun. While they are nowhere near the level of technical acclaim to know anything about metal working there's no way they haven't become masters of ancient stone working.
They may even been more stone then mortal, as more then one origin in fantasy states Dwarves where carved from rock and then either blessed or cursed with mortal flesh later on. They would be wary of humans no doubt, but the similarities in appearances would be a way to ease tension, no doubt showing them some of men's workings with wood, leather and bone would impress them enough to want to trade or even help fight the Troglodytes if they could be convinced they would one day threaten them in their deep mountainous cave homes.
Elves - Elves of this setting would be what many fantasy worlds would call "Wood Elves". Dwelling in treetop homes made simple to be one with nature as opposed to bending it to their will as other races, like humans do. This might be an early point of contention between the two races, but like the first encounters with the Dwarves I believe the similarity in appearance alone could allow for the opening of lines of communication and trade.
Speaking of trade if you'd allow bows in the setting as an "advanced" or late tier weapon, I think Elves would be the source of such creations. Elves without bows is just such an alien concept to me, even if they are very simple I can't seen elvenkind without them. Again they could also be rallied as allies against the Troglodytes, the Elves might be far flung in forested enclaves distances away from the Troglodyte empire, but if they'd see first hand what the scaly bastards are capable, disrespect for nature and even life itself they'd rather see humans succeed them, as humankind at least is willing to negotiate and seek peace most of the time.
Orcs - Orcs of this era would undoubtedly be savage warmongers, constantly warring with themselves and anyone nearby, they could perhaps already be a constant thorn in the side of the Troglodytes empire, constantly raiding villages and being a nuisance but not a unified enough of a threat to fully devote to stamping out.
Perhaps the party could meddle enough to cause the Orcs and Troglodytes to commit to all out war, using magic or otherwise to see a particularly powerful chieftain rise to power and group numerous tribes into one massive horde that then wages an all out assault on the Troglodytes empire, forcing them to send the bulk of their army to deal with the Orcish menace, in doing so allowing humanity the opportunity to launch their own attack and take cities of the Troglodytes for their own and crush their leadership for all times.
Then when the beaten and battered but likely victorious Troglodytes army comes home they are shocked to find battle scared and entrenched humans waiting for them, this could very will be what caused their down fall, forced to run and devolve over the ages into the modern cave dwelling scaly savages modern folk know as Troglodytes.
The Orcs may also have found out that human intervention was what lead to the massed conflict as well and be the origin for the age old hatreds of humankind, as well as Dwarves and Elves too, the allies of humanity.
Well that's enough walls of text for one day, love to know what you think. :D
@JakeCWolf - I've taken a look at the Vampire template on d20PFSRD, and the Create Spawn ability isn't due to a disease, so technically a Paladin wouldn't be immune to it. It looks like a side effect of death by blood drain or energy drain.
Ahhh, see I'm so used to the Elder Scrolls take on Vampirism, where it's a supernatural disease not a physically and mentally altering magical curse.
