JDCalvert's page

This is a bit of a strange one. I've recently been in a bit of an argument where the other person is claiming that the shuriken's reload time of 0 is a typo and it should have a reload of "-" like all other thrown weapons.

Have there been any discussions around this, and the possible implications and interactions with other rules? And is there are general opinion or official clarification around why this one weapon is treated slightly different from all other thrown weapons?

My argument so far has been that I don't see any strong reason to believe it is a typo, and that there is a precedent from 1st edition where the shuriken was treated like ammunition with regards to how it's drawn and what happens when you throw it.

So I'd be tempted to agree mostly with Dr Styx from a design point of view. I don't think Paizo would increase the price of all the materials without putting it in the rules, leaving you to guess based on the cost of more expensive materials.

I was tempted to follow Dr Styx's formula, and obviously you have to pay double for the special raw material because its trade value is double its craft value. I was tempted, but then I found that Mithral has a trade price in Ultimate Equipment; 500gp/lb, so why would I suddenly consider it to be 360gp/lb (also, in the FAQ, it says you use the original weight of the item to determine price).

I'm going to use all the materials that have a normal trade value (Ultimate Equipment, page 93) and a special material trade value as examples.

Adamantine: normal price is 300gp/lb, easily-worked is 600gp/lb.
Cold Iron: normal price is 50gp/lb, easily-worked is 100gp/lb.
Darkwood: normal price is 10gp/lb, easily-worked is 20gp/lb.
Mithral: normal price is 500gp/lb, easily-worked is 800gp/lb.

Apart from mithral, these all follow a pattern; easily-worked material costs twice as much as the standard stuff (and the same craft value). This means that I can pay twice as much, and use the same craft cost to determine time (e.g. for easily-worked adamantine full-plate (market value 16500gp) I would pay (16500/4 * 2 = 8250gp), then complete 16500gp worth for crafting) and complete the item twice as quickly because it's easily worked.

This follows for flawless materials, as they have the same price. You pay twice as much for them, and the benefit (if you can call it that) is that the craft DC doesn't increase (does the base progress increase?) and you craft in the usual time.

This doesn't quite follow for malleable materials. I pay an extra quarter (375 is 1/4 more than 300) of the price and then craft towards.. 5/8 of the price? Which means it takes 5/8 the time to craft? This sounds wrong.

Same for pure materials, you pay an extra half (450gp/lb) and then work towards 3/4 of the normal craft cost, rolling twice, which again means you'll complete the item quicker.

In all cases, you pay more, and you complete the item quicker. It makes some sense, but it doesn't really seem balanced. In any case, I feel like the market value should be the same. After all, once completed, adamantine full-plate is adamantine full-plate. It has the same properties nomatter how it was made. If it was made to order, then you'd probably charge more for the extra materials to get it made faster.

I'm confused by the special raw material costs from the Unchained alternate crafting rules. I've had a good look and can't find anything that actually answers my question so far.

How much of a raw material do I need for, say, mithral full-plate using easily worked mithral? The normal value of mithral full-plate would be 10500 (1500 + 9000) gp, so it would cost me 2625 gp (1/4 market value as per Unchained rules) to craft it.

However, the special raw materials only give prices in per-pound quantities. For example, easily worked mithral is 800 gp/lb. There are a couple of ways you could work out how much you need.

Weight of Original Equipment
Full-plate armour weighs 50 lbs. so I need 50 lbs. of easily worked mithral to craft it. This means I have to spend 40000 (800 * 50) gp on easily worked mithral, or around 15 times as much as normal, which sounds a bit unreasonable.

Weight of Crafted Equipment
Mithral equipment weighs half as much as normal, so I only need 25 lbs. of easily-worked mithral to make it. Calculations as above, I still have to spend 20000 gp on mithral instead of 2625.

I think this makes more sense than the first option (though still unreasonable), as the various special mithral materials are the most expensive per-pound from all the special materials, even more than adamantine despite normal adamantine being more expensive than normal mithral.

Double the Usual Cost
Mithral full-plate requires 2625 gp of mithral to craft from. I buy it for 2625 gp and it is worth 2625 gp for crafting purposes. Special materials are only worth half their value for crafting purposes. I still need 2625 gp craft-worth of mithral, which means I need to spend 5250 gp on easily-worked mithral to make my full plate.

While this, I think, is more reasonable on a cost-benefit level, it seems to defeat the point of the different special materials having different prices.

Like I've said, I had a good look and couldn't find any satisfactory answers for this, so I'm really interested to hear what people have to say.

Cheers,