Gobhaggo's page

I think a monstrous Thing-esque flesh abomination should also be something in it's wheelhouse for my preferences, but a strictly animal+magic animal Shifter is fine too.

I'm of the personal opinion that making a Wisdom caster have lesser power budget for features is also a bad idea(I think Druid should have a more pronounced gimmick and it's lack of one is a blow to my satisfaction for it) but otherwise I agree, I do love my Gish Animist but I'm shameless in my love of high power anyways

I already did found a fix for it in Magic+ where summoning uses a template design(but a bit more elaborate) for both summoning and battleforms

Even outside of being a Gish, a cater liturgist still has some pretty sick abilities for casting. It means that you can consistently double dip in area damage while still moving around with Leaps and Tumbles-as-strides.

Also adding one consideration for that third martial thing; If one of those martials is a Comamnder you'll definitely shot up in value as a Gish Liturgist.

Claxon wrote:

I think the Thaumaturge route might the most viable.

Perhaps. But if you have more than 1x1H weapon then do you benefit from Implement Empowerment? I think you could have one of the weapons be your regalia and sidestep it, but a lot of people don't like my interpretation of the IE wording when I say that. Thaumaturge also has almost no reload support, but you could get 1 really good round then use the L6 reload + shoot with decent effect.

I feel like to get the most out of this, dual weapon reload, is almost mandatory. At higher levels (L7+) you can use a retrieval belt, but I don't think it is as easy unless you're using regalia/weapon implements, which isn't necessarily ideal for most thaumaturges.

You run into a similar issue with non-gunslinger classes since only the gunslinger can snag it dual weapon reload at L1, but everyone else has to dip into another class for it or pick it up at L6 in the archetype. Even if I wanted to say, be a champion with two of these things and utilize draconic barrage, I'm going to struggle to use two of these things until higher levels when I get reload feat support.

The only other class with really good built in damage riders/reload support is the ranger (i.e., precision/gravity weapon, running reload, the remaster crossbow hide+reload).

This archetype is going to be a fun nut to crack.

IMH, the idea is to just magdump on the first round and swap to another weapon(or another crescent to magdump for two rounds). Doesn't need to be an actual Weapon implement, just a normal weapon. Could even have a finesse unarmed attack so you don't need to bother with switching to melee once it's out.

So what does a Commander Archetype get?

Ded gives you a 2 learned, 1 prepared folio and the banner without the buffs. Level 4(that can be relearned at 8th) to increase it by 2 learned and 1 prepared. Only up to expert tactics

Will upgrade

Can increase commander DC and Warfare lore at 12 and 18.

I'd use the approach of a personal blessing from a god, like in the event of Wrath of the Righteous. Think of it as a deluxe level Champion or Oracle. You can also probably call it a freak over-injection of otherworldly energies in what would be a geniekin or a nephilim, such that your lineage is tied to a particularly potent entity.

I can see Exemplar as like a Martial equivalent of a witch, where they're like... laundering divine agents.

My idea is that if you get a Companion through a class feature/subclass then it should scale on your own without feats(+ rejigger the numbers a bit to make it scale a tad better, no idea why companions only get up to trained without the specifics specialization) and then replace those feats with some tiered bonus system like the one on Inventor.

As someone that has played Druid for a short whilel, Like 4-8, I never really found Druid all that interesting to think or play about--I'm very negative on spellcasters on a baseline but I did appreciate the class for actually having some interesting Feats even if most of them are tied to Untamed. It wasn't bad or anything outside of

I kinda do want the Druid to have a more explicit gimmick to their class actually, I'm a mechanics then aesthetics guy and there's just not any mechanics to make it appealing. Like I'm a big fan of oscillating wave even if it isn't the *best* Conscious mind for Psychic just from it giving off-tradition spells and the heat/cold damage swap.

There's nothing wrong with Druid but there's also nothing really wow about since most things it has is easily gotten through feat investment. Funnily enough, I think Druid is like the anti-Psychic design-wise. Semi-decent feat with a good chassis with literally no gimmicks while Psychic's budget is *all* in the gimmicks with some genuinely terrible feats

As someone who wanted, and did, play Oracle. I'd also add 'Divine spells just doesn't work thematically' for this class, there are terribly few fire or air/lightning spells for instance. I honestly think Oracles should just get carte blanche access to any spells with a specific tag or thematic(Fire Oracles get all fire spells, Death gets all void spells, life vitality and healing spells, etc, etc)

I think if the Curses provides something more powerful to the spellcasting it's be nice too

But also remove any curses that are like Lore Oracle. Terrible idea.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

No, you missed the point. You were trying to use modern reality in a fantasy game for weapons. You seem to want to use realism when you feel like it and discard it when it is inconvenient to your arguments.

Even something like what would it really be like to be struck by a 10 ton dragon that can fly at immense speeds. Would a 150 to 200 lb. human even be able to withstand one blow from such a creature much less the breath weapon coming from its mouth? Especially with realistic Medieval weaponry.

I'd be fine with representing that in-game. Dragons should be brown pants when glimpsed from miles off, level threats. Fighting them should take an army, defensive magic, and never come without a massive cost in lives. Even an Ogre should be something you fight with as long a spear as possible because you will not survive being hit by them.

Nah, i think Ogre should be a hard boss at low levels and decenly beatable with a few bruises at mid level

Because n8_fi wants them to move duh.

Mechanically it can be because the old location doesn't matter anymore due to movement or burning grounds effect. So no you have two thralls in a hopefully mroe advantageous position

Also Reactive Striking a thrall sounds like a terrible decision--Reactions aren't automatic and aren't unlimited.

Thematically they want some tokens to move because they feel not to controllable as is rn.

I do agree that thrall movement shouldn't be easy though, having 8+ thrall being able to move repeatedly would be hell.

I think it's because that a non-video gamey Necromancy is a pain in the ass to balance and take up table time.

In fact I love that it's video gamey because I always think of diablo when someone says they want to make a necromancer and have that be a gameable concept.

I absolutely do not want Fighter proficiency barbs or rogues

Overall none, got a decent enough spread as of Howl and PC2. Some more construct or insect adjacent ancestries maybe?

Yeah I just fundamentally disagree that everything should be interchangeable. I think a lot of thing 'should' be interchangeable between them but not everything.

Or they can make hacky 'same actions but actually just straight up better' like if they make the half-stride+cover be a disttinct action from Take Cover but it's literally just Take Cover but better if too much baseline changes is unrealistic.

I still want ways to ranged flank be something that's spreadout and baseline for characters. Hell, make it a class feature to every single Starfinder class.

it's not my favourite way to do it, but at least it's something to make ranged more fun that doesn't need everyone to take feats.

Maybe not necessarily numbers but I think there should be changes to certain base actions and rules to make playing ranged something more dynamic, instead of forcing ranged-ness with just class features, feats, and equipment.

For instance, Take Cover coming baseline with a half-speed stride so that there's more movement and helps melee still be able to get in range but still having survivability,

Make some sort of 'ranged flanking' possible. Maybe shooting someone--hit or miss--not in standard/light cover 'primes' them where their off-guard against the next ranged strike by someone else or by taking a move action that isn't Stand. Maybe have Area Attack 'prime' too and melee or tanky classes have ways to ignore it like Rogue or Barb did.

Besides there is a Bioaugmentation for wings! Enjoy.

More reason to give Shirren low level flight then!

I kinda like the idea of making Hair Trigger... trigger on Melee Attack though. Fits with Skirmisher's John Wick vibes.

So I'm going through the Soldier right now, and I got a little confused with the wording of the Primary Target class ability.

So, when you use an Area Fire or Auto-Fire action, it says to also make a ranged strike, so normally I would assume it is within the 2 actions of the Area or Auto fire action. But it is also being referred to as an action in the same sentence. Just wanted to be sure. Is it 2 actions to use Area or Auto Fire and its Primary Target functionality, or 3?

2 action, you basically make a Strike that's a subordinate action.

The feats (Butterfly effect, four focus points, four extra slotted spells) and focus spells (reroll successful save) make it the ultimate save or suck/lose caster. It’s fine - the anchor and QF are sideshows.

Then I don't want that to be the main benefit of Warpers, If my class feature is QF, then I better be QUantum Fielding 90% of the time

I simply don't like even more CHA caster classes

Here's my position: As is now, four arms are too marginal of a benefit.

WHat are the ways to make it more stronger without having it be the greatest thing ever?

My choices:
-Once per turn free switch pair of hands, or even make it multi arm ancestry can just do
-Allow the extra empty hands to interact/reload. qualifing for actions that don't need rolls

Hell, you can even use extra arms as an Aug now. Not like there isn't already must have itemss in PF already(Looking at you Tailwind)

Some Blood Magic combos are Explosion of Power+anoint ally on a frontliner so you can trigger explosions with them. Anoint Ally can be used as a custom exploratory action so you don't even lose actions on the first turn. Then just spam triggering spells and you can get consistently do 2
(SPellrank)D6 on a basic reflex.

Propelling Sorcery is just good, free steps or reposition.

Blood Rising is a bit campaign dependent but it is useful if you have a penalty inflicting blood magic. Very fun, especially if you're a hag

Reflect Harm i don't think is great but it is funny to use.

Gobhaggo wrote:

I simply despise the existence of spell slots. I hate that so many classes in the game use such a mechanical space that begs for bloat since ever expanding spell list that is 90% 2 action activities is just bad, I hate that spell slots cost about 90% of a class' power budget and it's the basis for so many classes, I hate how similar so many the proficiency track(for saves and weapon) a lot of casters have, and I hate the amount of exact copied feats each casters have.

So of course I find Wizard weak, it's emblemeatic of spell slots, and I have nothing but disdain for spell slots.

I also don't like the spell slots mechanics too but I thing that you are pointing the wrong problem in the wrong place.

IMO it would much better, easier to balance and much more familiar to early generations of players that are well more familiar with MP or a cooldown system. If instead of slots the spells used MP or a recharge mechanic similar to what breaths and Demilich have. But it won't change how the class' power budget is distributed nor make the feats better.

Casters are supposed to have their power and versatility linked to spell like they currently are. Spell is what defines casters just like weapons/unarmed attacks is what defines martials. A caster without spells would become a different thing while a fighter without a weapons/unarmed attacks also would become a different thing including that why the kineticist looks like more a super than a fighter or a caster because it doesn't looks like a caster nor a fighter but someone that have super-powers and use then so solve most of the situations and just like the fighter feats improves how stronger, versatile and flexible the fighter is fighting with weapon or unarmed, theoretically casters feats was supposed to do with casters the same with spells.

So probably what you fell more is that like most casters feats are pretty meh. In most part because that the feats that was supposed to...

I did play kineticists and mostly play martials before, but after playin kineticists it just made me feel even more disliking of the way spellcasting works for the rest of the classes.

I simply despise the existence of spell slots. I hate that so many classes in the game use such a mechanical space that begs for bloat since ever expanding spell list that is 90% 2 action activities is just bad, I hate that spell slots cost about 90% of a class' power budget and it's the basis for so many classes, I hate how similar so many the proficiency track(for saves and weapon) a lot of casters have, and I hate the amount of exact copied feats each casters have.

So of course I find Wizard weak, it's emblemeatic of spell slots, and I have nothing but disdain for spell slots.

Nah, I'm fine with Minotaur as it is. But D8 horns are crazy, even if there's no upgrades to them since that usually takes a Heritage+feat.

D8 horns are D8 Free hands, better really since even with occupied hands you can still use them

Here's my rant: If another Tank class is CHA based(even secondarily if it's mandatory) I'll consider Guardian a failure.

Taunt shouldn't be mental so that even Mindless enemies can be affected by it.

Suprrised there's no way to Upgrade the banner aura in someway, something like 'You and squadmates can Hide as long as you're affected by the banner', 'enemies suffer -1 to hit when they're affected by your Banner', or 'You and squadmates gain resistance from friendly damage X, and upgrades save results by 1 step when rolling against effects made by allies'

I think a bunch of the tactics can be broadened slightly.

Like let Shields Up allow an affected ally to cast the Shield cantrip.

Mountaineer and Naval training can be combined into one tactic that grants either a swim or climb speed, chosen when you prepare that tactic with your squad.

Probably a more generalist Master Tactic will be released, since the two in the playtest are very disparate in the playstyle and party they're good in.

Shields up can be widened to also allow taking cover IMO.

_shredder_ wrote:

I'm also quite disappointed in that the commander gets full martial weapon proficiency scaling and is expected to strike - what made me interested in such a class is the ability to play a nonmagical full support who doesn't have to deal direct damage at all to be effective. I don't want to strike as a commander or be strong myself, I want to command allies to do the job for me and make them stronger.

I think two different class paths (one for pure support, the other for a supportive striker) would be the best choice to allow both playstyles.

100% this is what I was hoping for. Something closer to a 4e Warlord than a warrior Muse Bard.

I want to make ALL my strikes through my allies. Even if it was like > or >>. If I use the >> option I can cast a a cantrip my ally has.

If it's > then it gets the normal MAP and each usage in a turn must target a different ally.

The Warlord itself has plenty of ways to wade into battle, like that's its generic focus. Lazylord was a possible build but a 'generic' warlord very much got into the thick of it themselves

My problem with Taunt is that it is a narrative straitjacket that constrains the GM’s agency. A successfully Taunted foe is required to choose between being penalised for attacking a possibly more intuitively “appropriate” target or pivoting to try to hit the Guardian. It beggars belief that almost *any* and *every* foe is going to be at risk of losing their “nerve” and making stupid decisions or being penalised mechanically on a meta-decision that a) isn’t stupid and b) makes no sense verisimilitudinously.

And this doesn’t even touch the narrative hoops made necessary. I get that some folks are not bothered by more “abstractionist” approaches to combat, but to me it is palpably problematic.

As a player of a Guardian or in a party in which the Guardian is a member I’m going to be frustrated by this meta-hijack of the narrative, and as the GM I’ll be fuming. I hate it.

And to top it all off, I’n not even on board with *every* Guardian being some sort of “taunt-jack” - it’s an extremely bespoke theming, that while it has roots in prior editions and/or CRPG’s is anathematic to me. I would definitely like more ideas for the Guardian to be a defender, but also definitely like to not have Taunt on every Guardian.

I feel though that Taunt is being considered integral to the class concept and central to the functioning of the chassis. Which is a great pity for those of us who like the Guardian otherwise.

I honestly hope Pathfinder 2e moves more towards abstractionist mechanics. Hell I consider Meta-jacking an appealing concept over all in a variety of rulesets.

IMO non-Animal Companion wanting melee commander should be helped by a level 1 Feat that allows them to Half-stride when making a 2A+ tactics

Call it Marching Orders,

Basically the title. I think the increased to-hit and save DC is wayyyy too punishing the Guardian, and you're more likely to crit-fail any spells or rider effects that could literaly cripple the Guardian

Same with Squiggit, don't like a single suggestion here. I can understand why you don't like how it's not full support but I think having the ability to wade into battle is important for allowing it.

Banner I think is mostly a balancing part.

Having Tactics be free action would be too much IMO, basically making the action conversion way too cheap. It's a good problem to have to be limited by reactions.

https://twitter.com/MichaelJSayre1/status/1784827119518064654

2A Ready, Aim, Fire
[Commander] [tTactic]

Squadmates in commander banner can; draw ranged weapon as Free Action, Reload as free action, and strike an enemy within you and your squadmate's view as a reaction. Casters can cast cantrip targeting that enemy instead of the other action.

IMO Monks should get Monk weapon proficiancy by default and be able to use Flurry with them, and Monastery Weapon would instead become 'Can use Flurry and gain prof on all martial weapon'

Captain Morgan wrote:

I'm curious what this class will do that the Marshall archetype doesn't, but I haven't played the battle lord or whatever Michael Sayre called his 3rd party class. But Path of War rocked so I'm optimistic.

We did get this hint from Michael Sayre in the main Battlecry thread.

Michael Sayre wrote:

Just for you, because you're cool and I like you, I'll drop one little commander hint ahead of the playtest that will have you theorizing until release day:

If you're a casual fan of TTRPGs, the commander sounds a lot like a warlord (or a marshal, or kind of even some bards, etc.)

The sentence I wanted to use that we decided was a little too technical for a broad audience announcement (and probably legitimately not spicy enough), is that one could fairly describe the commander as a "prepared martial" kind of similar to the way one might talk about a "prepared caster"...

So I think it'll be less martial, with their aura of granting buffs, and more like a book of tactics you can pull from as the situation demands. I'm pretty optimistic about that take, because making your tactical buffs more limited means they've got room to be a bit more powerful, making the Commander feel more impactful earlier on.

Sadly I don't think they're going to have the soldierly companion/troop ally that I was hoping for, but that's alright. Someday, maybe.

I will not be surprised if Troop-master is an archetype in Battlecry.

FInally I can play as a Cool Bug

Maybe have the THP recharge on turn start,and some kinda of 'if crit, roll aa dc 15 check and success means that it's a normal hit'

One other idea was to expand furious critical by making it apply on a 16/17+

I've been ruminating it a bit and come to conclusion that Concentrate action restriction is b&++~&*# and should just be removed--Rage's bonuses just don't compensate for the restriction in build variety.

Also some of the action that are allowed--Battle Medicine, Sneak, some spells here and there--also don't quite fit the 'frothing maniac incapable of controlling themself' angle they're going for either

Maybe Get'em applies penalty to AC and saves?

ALternatively give them more different build in directives,

I mean, as far as it goes hiring a Calistrian, you will be fine as long as you don’t piss them off. I think a lot of people think they are “Chaotic Stupid”. When a lot of her text leans to taking risks, but being careful. It’s not just trickery, but guile.

As others have mentioned, they have a ton of services in tons of temples. Most of them holding some amount of political power in the areas they have set up. If the church and followers were actively screwing people over for the fun of it… they wouldn’t last.

Hell, no one wants to do deals with Asmodeous but they still have clerics for hire. Considering Calistria’s faith is all about individualism, it really just depends on how you treat them. I think it came from one of the Kingmaker books but the saying “You can never find a greater friend or a more deadly rival, than a Calistrian. It is best to stay on their good side.”

Data security is also a big concern with dealing with Calistria since I kinda remember that they get some blackmail using that--loose lips sink ships, though in this case it's a different pair of lips.

But otherwise I agree, if you're just Joe Schmoe(or jane schmoe) then dealing with them is less likely to f~$$ you over than the asmodeans

Friendly fire has very bad wording, harmlessly bypass any' could mean it can splash through walls or something.

Reword it to something like this: You can choose to have any allies within the splash range of this bomb to not be affected

Squirt requiring double Saves is hillariously undertuning, please only do either Ref or FOrt

Turning all Strike into Precision damage doesn't do what you think it does--Precision damage becomes the originator damage. So unless you have an elemental rune on it, it does nothing

What doe 'no bonus damage' even mean from Syringe Hooks? Specialization? Rage? Everything that isn't the damage dice?

+1 bonus damage to melee strikes is hillariously unscaling

'Three actions after' what the hell is this man? No timing uses this.

The base idea is decent overall, but you're being much too cute in your design.

I'm not a fan of the concentrate restriction since most of the time it's just massively restricting build.

Better sustain/defense, might be something like a way to reset the Temp hp or increase the resistance. Maybe a 'roll flat dc 16 when you get crit, on a succ it becomes a normal hit' built in or as a feat.

Fix the deer horns and fury sucking

It'd be great for Monks to be able to do Stance switching or even fusing easier and at a lower level, hell even something like 'You can use another form's special unarmed attack' would help with the fun of being a pure brawler/superhuman athleticism kinda guy

So, as I often do around these parts, I'm going to take a moment and present the other side of things.

I have played Alchemists for a total of 27 levels now, across two Research Fields. I have a Bomber and a Mutagenist active in PFS (Levels 11 and 9 respectively.) I have a second Bomber in Outlaws of Alkenstar that just finished Book Two and is now 7th level.

While I believe there are a number of things that could be tweaked to improve the Class, the last thing I would want would be the wholesale changes being proposed here.

A lot of my fun over the past two and a half years or so has been the ability to stretch outside of my guys' Research Field. Mind you, a lot of the time that's not easy, due to a lack of Resources. Still, even one or two Batches leftover from daily preparations can be a lifesaver. Usually it's been for an unexpected healing elixir or tool.

These days it's a lot easier. My lowest guy just hit 7th level. I will admit, one of the things I hope they tweak is Perpetual Infusions. Moving it to 3rd level would ease a lot of the stress.

But you know, 7th level, I've got infinite Bombs as a backup. So for one more level I'll be making about 18 Bombs a day, with 4 Quicksilvers, a couple of Moderate Elixirs of Life (we're a little light on in-combat healing), and now two free Batches. In my experience, that'll work quite well. Might even decide to go with 4 Elixirs of Life... I'll have to chat with my party on that point.

Eighth level, Sticky Bomb comes in, and with it even more flexibility. From experience I could probably cut back to 3 Batches/9 Moderate Bombs once I have Sticky. That's three more Batches for other things.

I expect that Alchemist accuracy will get boosted somehow. Fine by me. I've been doing quite well with the current limitations; I won't complain if they make it even better.

shroudb wrote:

For me, the main issue is tht the class can be replaced by spending gold.

Trip.H wrote:

Hard agree. Alchs need something to make using the

...

The issue is more 'do I even have the chance to use Elixirs/Mutagens?'.

Like as a caster, pulling out a consumable and using it takes two action which means it locks me out of casting most things--sure I can have them start at my hand during combat, but that can also apply with scrolls or wands and now we're back at them locking me out of casting.

Hell, I had to make my table have a free once per turn draw for them to even start using consumables.

What I'd like to see would be a fix to dual weapon reload to make it a passive so you can use other special reloads. I like the idea of having singular expertise scale. I'd also appreciate a d8 kickback 1 handed gun. Would round out high strength drifters. They're missing that option.

I've come to the point where I think Reload should just not require a free-hand at all. Crossbow/GunxSword or dual wielding guns should just be an easy archetype to do, and a shield gunner is much less weird than Shield Monks being optimal.

I think Paizo didn't quite realize how debilitating reload was at first and the free-hand requirement is just salt on the wound

If there was one key thing you wanted to see different with the Wizard what would it have been?

I like the new school themes for role play and the possibility of new schools or just making your own but I do think future released schools will have potential for power creep.
I like the staff nexus addition but think it needed to have progression of some kind any kind at levels 4 and 6.

They better have power creep, a lot of this Schools kinda suck

I'm still gonna say: Swash shouldn't have those subclasses, if skill action is still important for gaining Panache then all those applicabpe skill action should be able to gain Panache.

Every swashshpuld be able to gain panache from bragging, making a feint, wrestling people dowm andmaking a witty retort.