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Genuinely unsure if this is intentional or not and I’d love to hear from the devs. The pretty well-known “sorcerer skill-monkey” phrase on page 129: “Bloodline Signature Skills: You are trained in the listed skills and add them to your signature skills.” Considering the name, I’d assume this is supposed to just add them as a signature skill only, and not be trained.
I find it very strange that Wizards don’t have Lore as a signature skill. Aren’t they supposed to be good at knowing things? The entry on Lore (p. 141) says all Lore skills you have are Signature Skills.
Yeah this is highly strange. A couple other classes like cleric and druid get a free proficiency too, and I wonder if it’s supposed to be included in their base number? So like the cleric 5+Int really means 4+domain+Int? But then sorcerer means 1+bloodline+Int which is a lot less choice than other classes ...
I noticed a weird discrepancy in the number of trained skills classes get.
This seems really strange, and largely arbitrary! It makes sense that the rogue, ranger and bard get a lot of base skills, but why does the sorcerer get so many? I get that the alchemist and wizard will have high Int anyway, but why does that force them to play skill catch-up behind every other class? Why does the paladin have more skills than others rmartials, and why do the cleric and druid have a lot more too? Is there something I’m missing here? Mosty I just don’t get why the Int classes are “punished” with low base skill points, and why the cleric, druid, and especially sorcerer have so many more than equivalent classes.
Int is the new Cha. What does Int do? Everything Dex dows, minus a little. What is governed by Int? Answer: Two classes' abilities, and only the Wiz really needs it. I mean, Wizards just take the knowledge skills, and then everyone else can dump Int. Great, I'm going to have players with mentally retarded characters.
I took the 'Gestalt Rules' in Unearthed Arcana and I built a 20-level Racial Progession that each character gets in addition to their class abilities. I think the group has really been enjoying these rules. They make an elven fighter distinctly different from a dwarven fighter, even if the 'fighter' part is identical. I also used that as an excuse to give some extra healing. For example, elves and gnomes (to a lesser extent) have the ability to cast some healing spells. Offtopic, but could you put these somewhere? That's pretty awesome.
In what way is it overpowered? Physical scores aren't everything, and there are 2 other races with Con bonuses.
Gnomes lose the Defensive Training, and maybe the Hatred abilities in favor of something more unique.
If you have a Sprint skill, it needs to be merged with the Jump skill, then. There's a reason Carl Lewis (an insanely fast sprinter) is one of the best Olympic long jumpers of all time. Or the discussed Endurance skill.
Also, on the table for generating NPC ability scores, it says Halflings get +2 Int, but they don't anymore. (Even though I think they should, but that's for this thread).
Agreed, but then we'd have three with conI somewhat support it, I agree ranger/rogue should be halfling classes, but Dex/Wis makes a much better fit and keeps them from being mini elves (which if they have dex/int then they are exactly)I'd agree with Dex/Wis, but there are already two races with Ws bonuses, and that would make one with Int, one with Cha and THREE with Wis. However, if Paizo would give the Half-Orc a +2 Con instead of Wis, that would be nice. But traditionally, many fantasy races are more tough than humans; not that many are more wise. EDIT: Actually, no. Many are. But game-wise, EVERYONE can use more Con, and it's only extremely vital to Barbarians (and arguably Sorcerers). Not true for Wis: it's vital to at least 3, but useless to some.
I somewhat support it, I agree ranger/rogue should be halfling classes, but Dex/Wis makes a much better fit and keeps them from being mini elves (which if they have dex/int then they are exactly) I'd agree with Dex/Wis, but there are already two races with Ws bonuses, and that would make one with Int, one with Cha and THREE with Wis. However, if Paizo would give the Half-Orc a +2 Con instead of Wis, that would be nice.
Sorry, Mr Ninja, but the irony was just too much. Bold should show why. *Facepalm*
Here is a place to post the nitpocky things you noticed in PRPG AR3. I mean stuff like typos, misnomers, etc. I have some here. I still thank the Paizo editorial staff for their better job than WotC at editing!
By "traditional D&D" I meant non-PRPG D&D; I always thought it was staves, and this was likely supported by my original brief stint with 2nd edition. I should be sending them off within the week, but they might take a while to get there (opposite coasts).
Nope, they need not meet them, see below.
I didn't realize until this afternoon that in traditional D&D, you had magic staffs. STAFFS. Therefore, I cannot thank you all at Paizo enough for making it "Staves", which is the real plural (technically staffs can be correct, but technically nauseous can mean feeling nauseated, so it's retarded).
I do like this a lot. I think this would be nice, but it might be a little overpowered. I am not sure though, that is for the calculators to determine. Also,
Opens this feat to Rangers who may not meet the ability Prereq. Rangers need not meet the prereqs for any Weapon-Style Feat.
What we have home-ruled is that humans get Martial Weapon Proficiency if they are not already proficient with all martial weapons. If they already are, they instead get Weapon Focus for a weapon, or Exotic Wepon Proficiency.
That is exactly what should happen. [On a side not, Half-Orcs should have Druid not Cleric as a FC]
See, but Pathfinder has changed Charisma's purpose in my mind a little, based upon the fact that Charisma is used in every casting class, one way or another: While I have been arguing that School and Domain DCs should be Int or Wis based (respectively), I see how Paizo working in Cha as the Casting Stat. And I kinda see their point: in much of fantasy, magic is at least partly governed by the user's force of personality, their personal menatal ability to force their will on things, and the ability that seems closest to that is Cha. Gnomes are supposed to be like faeries: very innately magical, and that is exactly what is represented by the Cha bonus. I like that. Again, though, halflings should not have a Cha bonus; there's nothing innately magical about that. I aggree with a lot of the people here that Gnomes should move away from Dwarves though, like the Hatred and Defensive Training abilities. They don't face the same enemies Dwarves do anymore, so I think these could be replaced with something more unique.
I kind of like them with a Cha bonus. Since every caster class has at leasy 1 ability based on Cha (though I hope this isn't true anymore for Wiz and Clr domains), Gnomes are decent at every type of magic. The problem wih Gnomes is that they don't have the best mechanical bonuses, they have some fo the best RPing possibilities. Speaking with burrowing mammals? That s***'s bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
I personally feel that, since it is a parallel to channel energy, it should also be Rgr level - 3. I think that's all he's saying, and it's definitely all I'm saying. It also makes it mroe fun at high levels.I have no problem with that. As a matter of fact I am the one who suggested the rgr level -3 thing. But he was suggesting adding new spells because the animal companion wasn't worth it without or otherwise inventing a new mechanic to replace it. As I said, I don't think such drastic measures are warranted when the mechanic isn't really broken to begin with so a slight adjustment would be quite preferable. Okay. It's like 11:38 here and I didn't feel like reading the whole thread. I think it's fine if we just give them Rgr level - 3, and that's my only point.
Incorrect. You have to have a regular access to the ability to fly every day to be able to take ranks in fly. Look up the special for fly. I didn't notice that. But is this supposed to be convincing for keeping Fly a skill, 'cause it isn't for me.
I think it's the same idea that gives Small things a +1 to attack: everything else to them is bigger. If you are 4 feet tall, it's easy for you to see something 20 feet tall, but to him you seem to blend in with tablelegs. You hear his every large step, but your foot patters are so far from his ears, he can barely make them out. Important note though:THIS CAN ONLY APPLY TO AUDIAL AND VISUAL PERCEPTION. No reason for the other three.
That's cool... I think the fighter's attack bonus from weapon training should be based of CHR so they can't use that as a dump stat.... Like I said about how Sor spell DCs should be based on Str :P
I don't mean any offense, but your opinion that the animal companion is not fun to play with does not mean the mechanic is broken. I have known plenty of players over the years who enjoy the ranger's animal companion, but we have never encountered any difficulty with the rules to make us think they are broken. I personally feel that, since it is a parallel to channel energy, it should also be Rgr level - 3. I think that's all he's saying, and it's definitely all I'm saying. It also makes it mroe fun at high levels.
Basically, they finally became truly separate and got important unique things (especially the Cha bonus). Then the halfling comes in and says, "NO!" I liked the Gnomes the way they were, and I don't want another race to go into their territory mechanically or flavorfully; that doesn't happen to other races, and we had them unique and in a nice niche.
I'm of the opinion that perhaps the rangers animal companion options shouldn't be quite so bad. How about ranger level -3 for effective druid level instead of half? Like the paladin with the new, and awesome, turn undead ability? (And I'd like to say how incredibly happy I am with that change. I've wanted to do something similar for years, I've just lacked the courage to do so I guess! So, thank you for putting it into the fantasy RPG I'm going to be playing for the next several years.) SECONDED!
I mean, I just realized that without Endurance as a skill, Con has no skills at all. Also, I like the idea of Concentration being folded into it. Spellcraft doing that seemed, well, silly. As in, "I am so intelligent, I can ignore damage while casting my spells" silly.
Realistically, the skill is silly. 1st-level characters with a rank in Fly would imply they have practiced the skill. How? a Fighter could invest a rank in Fly...but how did he train? I can't imagine he can go around flying before even 1st level. Its' more plausible for a Wiz or Drd or Sor, but still, they can't even cast it when they can start "training." The whole idea of Fly as a skill is unrealistic. As a feat that gives you more abilities, it would both be a bigger decision to be really good with flight and it would imply extensive training, not just investing in something so you'll be good with it later. It would be a one-time deal. I think that fly should still be decent without it, but with this, it becomes very good.
Maybe you could remove the skill, but add a feat that gives you great flying ability.
I think Domains, Schools and Bloodlines should all be in the Magic section.
I kind of said this in a previous thread, but I feel the Gnomes have been majorly shafted in this Release.
Since you apparently have some issue with the Sorcerer the way it is now, even though it really has no dead levels, just add some spell-secret-like abilities (from Wu Jen).
I like the standardization, but I think it is not put in there because every monster would have to be changed. I don't want to have to go "Oh, wait, I need to give this guy more feats" every time I pull a monster from the MM.
Good point. Bards can learn Mass CLW, but Soothing Performance does the same thing. Is Soothing Performance worse? No! Same goes for other Bard songs that mimic spells they can get. Why should it be worse for Wizards then? Just because bards rely on a typical dump stat? That's just crap. Cha is a dump stat because few classes rely on it. THREE do now, and one more benefits from it (Brd, Pal and Sor, and Clr, respectively). The same goes for Str: some classes need no Str, and it can be used as a dump stat; that doesn't make a good argument for using Str for Sorcerer abilities just because "it's often dumped."
I just don't have a long enough list, but I think it can be summarized by this:
I though this thread had NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH MORE SKILL POINTS. It is about condensing or making skills, namely the stated Endurance. Thank you, that is all.
Since there are no psionics (which I approve of), I think this is a wonderful idea. Bravo, and I hope they put something like this in there.
Same here. We also have Athletics as a skill, and Jump is part of that (not Acro), as are Swim and Climb. Fly we are putting as part of Acrobatics.
I suggested before that fore Wizards and Clerics, since these are supposed to be their most basic powers, maybe the DC should be 10 + spell level + Cha + [usual ability bonus]This way, casters would still have a reason to have a good Cha, but they need not rely on it.
I'll give you that I don't like the having to spend more rage points for just a multiple of the ability. I think it should just be worth more to be Raging.
And when do Clerics get those spells (assuming they even took those domains, which is irrelevant, because half the time they don't do what you think they do)? Later than even Druids. They don't even get most Wizard spells.
Another idea is that a paladin gains ranks in Ride like the bard gains ranks in a Knowledge skill once they acquire their mount (starting at 5th level they gain 1 rank in ride at every level), but this only applies to ride checks made with their mount. Instead of ranks, maybe just a bonus to Ride checks equal to Paladin level +3. Since you are just gaining ranks that only apply to certain situations, making it ranks is hard to justify.
See, the whole thing is, each spell needs to specify a system of ups and downs. For example, with Beast Shape I, you can either become an animal of youro size or one smaller. Beat Shape II, your size, one smaller, two smaller or one larger. Each spell set specifies the ability score modifier s for each step larger or smaller.
I personally, when I DM, like point-buy. As people have said, it prevents the following (an example from my game where I was a player and we rolled):
Wow, this is intensely seconded.
Maybe, on the mount table, Paladins should get a supernatural bonus to Ride when riding their special mount. For every tier on the table, they get a cumulative +2 bonus. Ideas?
But can a Cleric blast things with a firball or lightning bolt or magic missile, and then follow up flying into the sky to disintegrate your foes, after turning invisible? No, they cannot. |
