Glowbear's page

Thanks for all the help guys! I'm probably just going to go with Blade Boots at this point for the sake of simplicity, but I'll talk to my GM about your suggestions. @derklord I actually had never heard of shifter before so I'll definitely look into that.
Thanks again!

eidolon can have claws on their legs. it is limited to no more then one pair of claws used on limbs (legs). same goes for all felines (cats. tigers,leopards etc). their claws are on legs. as mantioned above talon vs claws is more of how the digits in the paw are set.taalonss are mostly on legs. but claws can be on ether arms or legs.

Sorry, I meant for player characters. Sure shape-shifting is a thing or I could get an animal companion but that doesn't fit with *~*my vision*~*

And natural weapons? They aren't very efficient. It is a bit like trying to use a box cutter against someone with a sword. The manufactured weapon just has a lot of advantages over evolution.

That's...kind of my point. Natural attacks aren't generally devastating weapons, and some races (Kitsune, lizardfolk, reptoids etc) can even get more than one from the get-go. So it's weird to me that foot-based natural claw attacks aren't a thing some races come with--I mean, you ever play with a cat? Foot kicks are a cat's signature move when they catch something, but catfolk only get hand claw attacks.

As far as what is a claw vs a talon, I figure it comes down talons having opposite thumbs while claws have side thumbs or no thumbs.

Not allowing claws or talons on strix feet is a copout for the sake of balance. A strix with clawed/taloned feet is basically a physical mimic of a harpy.

For me, the biggest issue with claw or talon attacks on the feet is balance. By that I mean balance for the creature, not just balance for the game. Flying creatures like the harpy get away with it, because they are flying, which from a combat mechanic perspective is a lot like standing on their wings. But for your average walking creature, putting natural attacks on their legs means that during combat they don't have a leg to stand on.

If a creature does have four or more limbs, it turns into a question of directional control; the creature must be able to face its claws forward to use them in combat. Generally only a single pair of legs can be brought to bear against an opponent. This is why an eidolon can only apply the claws evolution to one pair of legs. (Back legs can still get a rake attack, because the creature's weight shifts to its grappling limbs.)

This makes sense, but then again items granting hand-talons still function as regular hands. And hey, I know player characters aren't (generally) dinosaurs, but quite a few dinos make attacks with both their foreclaws and talons with no mobility drawbacks.The velociraptor even gets extra damage when they jump onto their prey, which means they use their feet as a normal attack (I think).

I can only say that the natural attack rules are a mess, I won't speak to the point of what is SUPPOSED to be, only that as-is it's pointlessly contrived and still fails to accomplish the primary goal of limiting the number of full BAB attacks a PC can get.

IMO they didn't go far enough but that's the fault of 3.X backwards compatibility.

This is one thing I personally am really grateful is being changed with PF2 in that each attack or ability requires an individual action instead of lumping everything into some nonsense "Fullround" action that is ripe for abuse like stacking as many natural attacks for a Full-Attack sequence.

Honestly BAB confuses the heck outta me. I've seen some builds on reddit where people were getting up 16 attacks per round by taking feats that increase speed or class abilities that give extra limbs.

Natural attacks can only be made once per round, right? It seems weird that they nerfed (is it nerfing if the thing being nerfed was never a thing?) a non-iterative attack type.

Glowbear wrote:

So, say a Strix goes barbarian: beast totem. Would putting the claw attacks on her feet be kosher?

That's a funny example, because in all of the art, the strix already look like they should have talons. I guess officially, you can't do that, because the ability isn't specific about where the claws go to override the FAQ. But unless it's for PFS, you should just ask your DM if he's cool with it. It doesn't feel abusive to me.

Exactly! Though they don't have the backwards facing toe like most birds. I also think tengu should get something like that.

The FAQ was to prevent some ridiculous natural attack builds that people we're attempting.

As for the magic items that give "talons". It's just a name. Unless the say they give a talon in the actual description (instead of a claw) they're just poorly named items.

That's what I figured. It seems like some mistakes were made in the descriptions of a few different things, I.e. talons of leng being hands and giant eagles having claw attacks.

So, say a Strix goes barbarian: beast totem. Would putting the claw attacks on her feet be kosher?

So, Paizo's been pretty clear that you can't put claws on your feet for extra natural attacks. Fair. Claws=hands, talons=feet ( https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fo#v5748eaic9rdk ). BUT, when I went looking for ways to get talons (Talons of Leng, Demon Talon, yadda yadda) they all go on your hands! So what gives? Are talons feet and hands, but claws are only hands?

I get that this is probably just a balancing thing, because if you could have natural foot-claw attacks AND use weapons/natural claw attacks your damage would get pretty ridiculous pretty quick. That being said, it'd be cool to have talons on a flying character, or have the option to use your feet to deliver a natural attack in a sticky situation.