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Have you ever had to do this to save the party? Not a heroic Gandalf "run you fools" moment, but more like "we can't save that person, but can save ourselves - we have to leave them".

If you've played RoTRL you may be familiar with this encounter. Minor spoiler if you haven't from our game tonight.

After going through a door and down a small hallway, we entered a room with a sunken water filled area, and were immediately attacked by some kind of giant crab. Since we'd already been through a bit of meat-grinder, Paladin only had 1 LoH left, I had 1 Grease spell, Summon II, and my bonded item spell, the ninja was out of ki, and ranger was full hp. It won Ini, successfully grabbed and began constricting the paladin -and- ninja on its first round. Ranger attacked with bow, hit for small amount of damage; Ninja missed, I cast grease trying to get the paladin free, it made its save, paladin missed . It continued to constrict and rolled max on both. My GM brain started quickly realizing....this is going to be a TPK....based on damage it was auto-dealing, both ninja (1hp) and paladin(11hp) were going below 0 on its next round, and me (wizard) and ranger would quickly follow. So I yelled - try to escape - and run or we're all going to die. Ninja succeeded escape artist, landed in the water but GM allowed him to scramble over edge and get out of range with move action. (technically GM could have AoO'd him, but really would have just been murder at that point, our tails were between our legs). I cast grease with bonded item, successfully freeing the paladin who's ini was right after mine, and we ran up the hall preparing to bar the door when the ranger came though.

....this is when I realize, I forgot the grabbing death-crab was going before the ranger in order. As we're yelling to run, it grabs her, -crits-, doing something close to 30 damage and starts up the hall with her in one claw and the other just looking for someone else to grab. At which point, I slam the door and yell for everyone to lean against it. if we don't we're all dead - yes it sucks, but option b is worse, and this is not a fight we can win at this point I had more hp left than the whole group combined...and I'm the wizard. So 1 or 4 deaths...what's it going to be?

Out of character my wife (paladin), 8 year old (ninja), 10 year old (ranger), and 12 year old (GM) are all looking at me with this disbelief - you're really leaving her to die? Hey...it isn't real life here people. All the same, I was getting a little teary eyed - PC death still sucks, especially when you basically pulled the gallows lever on them.

...epilogue.

What I didn't know was about to happen when I made that call, is on her action she tried animal empathy to come the creature, rolled a nat-20, and GM decided that was enough for the crab to calm down having chased the rest of us from its lair, leaving her setting somewhere under 5hps, but alive. It didn't change the fact that we'd made a decision to leave her to death to save the rest of the group, but we were of course happy she was alive.

So - have you ever had to sacrifice a fellow PC w/o their full consent for the greater good?

I'm working through adventure design with my two oldest children, aspiring to run PF, and as I'm thinking over adventure hooks (primarily focused on 3-4hour 1-shot design at this point).

One thing I recalled from 1E modules, was they often had a table of rumors the PCs could hear from NPCs during RP encounters. Those lists often had a mix of true and false. In some cases the (F) rumors had a caveat or a twist which made it partly true. The information learned was intended to help the PCs prepare before heading off after the McGuffin.

I really like putting ideas in the players heads with the false rumors since imagination is a key component to RPGing and they will fill in lots of blanks in their own minds even if its not true. It can be a good way to put a little apprehension into the -players- mind, which will hopefully spill over into the actual game play.

In particular rumors about events/things that are either obviously too tough for the party, or things that are feared can be effective. Level drainers, rust-monsters, stone-turners as some examples, even if the adventure doesn't contain them will put them on high alert for these dangers, and perhaps have them jumping at some shadow's as they advance through the adventure and you drop hints that remind them of that rumor.

How do you like to incorporate rumors true/false/misunderstood into your adventures?

I'm posting this here rather than Rules Questions because I'm interested in how other GMs use this, not necessarily RAW, but have you tweaked it to enhance encounters.

I've used monsters with grab in several encounters over the last year, including reskinning a few monsters to meet the encounter effect I had in mind.

Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

However, the bolded part seems pointless, but if I've done the math wrong or don't understand it right please explain.

I've just always had the monster roll normal grapple (as free action), and if successful the PC is grappled, but the monster isn't. Otherwise, the Grab special feature seems a little pointless, except they get a free "chance" to grapple after striking with that limb.

While its not something that I use a lot, I like the PCs to fear those creatures that have tentacles, vines, or other means of holding onto them, and this seems a more effective way to make those unique monsters a little more uniquely fearful.

How do other GMs use it?

We've been using a 2'x3' whiteboard that I laminated after putting 1" grid on. When combined with a selection of lego's for tables/trees/fires, and wood-blocks for buildings/cliffs, etc is very functional for our mini's and pawns.

However, one challenge on dungeon crawls is running out of whiteboard space and then having to clean off, rearrange, etc. Also, having seen the Dwarven Forge setups....they are pretty cool....and expensive. An advantage with tiles is you can pickup old areas to recycle "forward" as the group explores, and then if the group nears the edge of the table, just spin the tile they're on 180 degrees and keep building in front of them.

So I cranked out some tiles on my own. I am by -no- means an art expert, but I think they turned out nice for a first cut. Pictures from last nights first-run.

Big View

Closeup

One side is grey/black the other is sand-tone.

Requirements:
"Stone" finish spray paint (sold lots of places)
"Matte or Gloss Clear Coat" spraypaint.
Xacto knife
Ruler and straight edge
Black-pen
Cardboard

Basic steps.
1. Spraypaint large section of cardboard one color. Let dry. Flip and paint other side your 2d color. Let dry.
2. Measure and cut desired section sizes
3. Lightly draw on 1" grid on both sides
4. Clear-coat

It wasn't a lot of work over a couple days and I quickly had a pile of various sizes. My "main" size was 10'x20' since they're easily adapted to lots of room sizes and hallways, and fit nicely in the tool-box tray's I'm using for storage. Also, cardboard is sensitive to moisture and small pieces warp less so they lay flat. I did make a couple larger rooms, and 5' wide (seen in the photo), as well as a couple versions of 1/2 circles.

Next step will be making a few doors out of pop-sickle sticks. I may also make a couple "wall" sections to use when rooms are side-by-side, although for now I can just use sand-tile for one room and stone-tile for the adjacent indicating where the dividing wall is.

A couple lesson learned. If you mark the grid before cutting, it won't always match on both sides. You can see in the pictures how I cut on the line on-side, but the other side wasn't perfect. So mark -after- you cut and all your tiles should look right. Keep the Xacto sharp, but take it easy and make 2 passes for a full cut. Its hard to push all the way through and more likely for the knife to drift.

Has anyone made home-made ones? Any ideas to share if you're a crafter?

Preface: I play with 3 of my children and spouse, and we typically run 1-2hour on Friday evening and if we have time another 2-4hour on Sat or Sunday. My son and I alternate GMing our campaigns week to week.

It just occurred to me that as Friday gets closer I really get amp'd up for the game, it doesn't matter if I'm GMing or playing. Its probably become the high-point of my week regarding how I spend my free time. In my case, its a synergy of both a hobby I enjoy as well as getting to spend hours with my family doing something we all enjoy.

So - please favorite one of the posts below regarding how much you look forward to your gaming sessions, and if you like leave a post about why you voted how you voted.

1. The next session is usually the most fulfilling way I spend my free time during an average week. "Top way I spend my free time"

2. I look forward to it, but its equally as much fun as a few other things I do with my free time. "top 1/3 of how I spend my free time"

3. I enjoy it, but it pulls me away from other hobbies. "top 1/2 of how I spend my free time"

4. Meh. I'd rather be gardening/woodworking/reading/playing video games/etc. "bottom 1/2 of how I spend my free time."

In a sandbox or homebrewed world, the plot arcs, NPC interactions, plot hooks, and adventures the pull it all together can be a daunting amount of material to keep track of over time. If you do it well, those old notes are a treasure horde of future hooks, easter eggs, and continuity for future campaigns that can add incredible depth to your long term players.

How do you manage your data? Digital, paper, both? Software specific to gaming or a home-designed template/system?

Please share any tips you think would be useful to other GMs, and

We ported this over a few sessions ago, and its been a refreshing dose of stress during combat when a PC went below 0, that reminded me of my college days when I'd track PC damage myself and only describe their general appearance, wounds, and how bad they looked. When someone went down in those games players didn't know if they were at -1hp and had several rounds to live or if they were 1 round from death. People took action to defend their fallen comrades.

My daughter's archer went down today and was setting on 2 failed death saves, the group nearly turned itself inside out to get help to her, even eating an AoO to ensure she didn't have to roll again on her turn.

We essentially run it just like the 5E OGL, on your turn roll 10 or higher to succeed, 9 or less fails. 20= auto stabilize and gain 1hp; 1=2 fails. succeed on 3 before you fail on 3. We run a successful DC15 heal check, administering a potion, or healing magic stabilizes a character.

Is anyone else using this?

Here's the OGL link

I think this is getting close to what I want to use in our home game. I made some adjustments based on feedback on the very raw v1.0. Some key things this gets.

Houserule Fighter Variant

1. Additional skill points and class skills associated with soldiers/military.

2. Select a good will or reflex based on flavor.

3. Gain additional combat feats at 1st level (if fighter is your favored class)and select one to set the flavor of fighting style you'll primarily use. Retrain a feat each lvl at 4th and beyond.

4. Stamina Pool. uses Fighter level rather than BAB (to keep dipping limited); can use on feats per Unchained; has over 20 selectable stamina uses (combat; skills; buff your allies; allow an ally to "walk it off" delaying a killing blow for 1 round; and a dispelling strike option - as dispel magic or try to suppress your enemy's spell resistance, supernatural abilities, and SLAs); pick a daily adaptive stamina ability at 2d level and more as you gain levels.

5. Inspiring Your Allies - allow them to make new saves or suppress an increasing number of conditions as you gain levels

6. Brother's In Arms - as the saying goes, its a small army, you never know who you'll run into (out of combat narrative power)

7. Gain a Cohort (similar to leadership feat); or become a Training Instructor (allows allies to retrain feats when they level), and you can grant them proficiency in armor/weapons and eventually Armor Training as a fighter when they're in view of you.

8. Slightly modified AWT and Armor Training

9. Art of War - gain bonus to qualify for feat prerequisites as you advance

Feedback welcome. Especially on the stamina (and points for use). I tried to consider how many times per battle it might be used at various levels compared to things like ki-pools, rage-powers, etc.

My players are nearing the end of a major plot arc, so looking for ways to link in some follow-on items and I stumbled across this.

Its a few years old, but I found this to be interesting and inspired me somewhat.

Any tips or links you commonly use when developing a home-brew adventure (or linking several adventures together into a campaign?)

Credit this one to Mike Bourke at Campaign Mastery

6 Foundational Tips for Adventure Design

Summary of the 6 Foundations:
•A plot idea – usually a set of circumstances or a problem that will complicate the lives of the PCs

•A character idea – some aspect of one or more of the PCs or non-villainous NPCs that can be connected to an antagonist;

•A villain idea – some cool or interesting idea for a new antagonist or a new way to use or develop the story of an existing antagonist;

•A location idea – a map or image or description that inspires a plotline;

•An external idea – stealing an idea from something I’ve read or watched or heard;

•PC Actions – when the PCs have something definite that they want to achieve, I’ll sometimes have no fixed plotline and just leave them to interact with the campaign world, coming up with antagonists and complications on the spur of the moment.

As a GM and/or player do you use accents? What has the reaction of others at the table been - were they encouraged enough to give it a try themselves.

Any advice or links for learning how to do better accents?

I personally have just started trying to add them in a little more and am encouraging the rest of the family to try one for their PC. My German "Professor" Alchemist has been a hit, and easy for me....I guess its the Black Sea region ancestry.

Last night, I started reading the Hobbit to my children (the 3rd time)...and working on a soft Irish hobbit accent and the rough Scots for dwarfs will also help.

To quote GK Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing...its worth doing badly."

Here is one tutorial from DawnForgedCast. The Core Races Tutorial

After reading over many of the ideas and inputs we're going to be playtesting this in our home game. We currently have two fighters - 1 ranged, and 1 sword/board, both at 4th level.

Three key things I wanted to improve.

1. Combat mobility and lethality
-more attack/move possibilities especially for non-ranged builds
-better save options

2. Combat versatility
-ability to utilize more than 1 primary weapon
-some kind of "ally assist" outside of teamwork feats

3. Out of combat skills and utility
-access to more skills and more points
-skill boosting ability

I give credit to PFCRB (its based off the core fighter), PF Unchained (Stamina ideas), Weapon Master Handbook (AWT ideas), ideas from forum posts, and a couple other fighter home-brews including Lemmy's.

I've not looked at how archtypes would meld in with this yet.

Feedback welcome.

Google Docs Link

My son's going to run us through this AP to get some more experience before working more on his homebrew campaign.

Question I have is about how feasible our party composition is and if we need an arcane caster (or even just a dip) - I let everyone else pick first, and am looking to round out the group and so far we have:

Dwarven Ranger (will focus bows and start with goblin favored)
Elven Paladin - will be the frontliner
Elven Ninja - skills, scouting, traps, etc

I'm concerned about healing and condition fixing at lower levels, as well as lack of access to arcane spell lists.

I'm looking at a human jeckle/hyde type RP and combat. Studious professional out of combat with knowledge heavy skill investment (plus Student of Ancients and Tireless Logic traits); then uses enlarge (Hyde effect) and reach weapon in combat for control.

The best fit "flavor" seems like:
1. Alchemist 1/Cleric to end of AP (Community and Traveler Domains)
-I can use the RP, out of and in combat concept immediately at level 1, then improve my control/healing/buffing/condition fixer. But not a true arcane access mechanically and would need to keep UMD investment.
-I also like mutagen for "backup" plan on a multi-combat day; plus brew-potion. I'd also ask GM to swam Throw-Anything for Martial Proficiency-Bardiche; and take Vivisectionist to swap 1d6 sneak-attack for bombs. Also this would give us a CLW per day at 1st level.

But if we need someone with true access to arcane spell list, then I'm thinking:
2. Magus1/Cleric to end of AP.
-Can still use the concept out the gate but no mutagen, and enlarge is 1rd casting until I can afford a wand. 14INT so I'd have 3 minutes of +1 stacking weapon enhancement per day (flexible to any weapon), and access to wands/scrolls w/o UMD checks. Another drawback is arcane failure, as I feel like I need to go heavy armor due to 2handed weapon use. this route would either leave us w/o healing (beyond potions) at first level, or I'd have to go cleric 1/magus1/cleric.... which doesn't fit as cleanly for the character concept, but I'd be willing to do it if Magus (and survivability at 1st level w/o a cleric is an issue.

GMs old, new, and aspiring,
What advice would you give (and any links you frequently use) to a new GM thinking about starting a homebrewed world to run campaigns in using the PF system?

What would you consider the "Must do" before the first campaign vs what can be left until the game is going?

What have you done that either didn't work, or you'd not do again?

If you've never done homebrew world design - what is your biggest reason or concern?

my first world - my college room-mate had a map of Oahu - I turned it into 9 sheets of hex-paper (at 25miles per hex) and had a continent. used it for 4 years of college and some one-shots over the years.

Here's a great world map generator that I used to pop a quick random for my current campaign.
Donjon Fractal World Generator

Looking for opinions before I hit up the GM.

WWWD: What would wolf do? If his druid is raging...

My druid is considering a dip in Bloodrager to get arcane spell access for wands/scrolls as our party has no arcane caster. BR is nice because I'd not miss a BAB boost like I would taking Wiz/Sorc.

I'm light on my feet already sticking with Hideshirt armor and light load, so the +10 move would be a nice base of 40' as well.

However, while raging, no skills involving CHA (which handle animal is).

So, even though druids can handle their companion as a free action, and Attack only requires you to point at a creature you want the companion to attack - what is your opinion.

Would the wolf continue to attack another creature of similar type, attack the creature his druid moves to next, or just sit idle until the druid is out of rage? I kind of makes me wonder how I'll control him when in wild-shape as well?

Would "pointing" even require a handle animal check for a companion with Attack trained?

Opinion's welcomed.

Who you game with and the style/setting/rule sets all affect how you experience PF and forms your opinions and responses on the forum. That got me wondering what the playing demographics were - hence this poll.

Please "Favorite" one of the following posts that most closely describes your current gaming group. A game-shop group that "normally" has a core group but allows walk ins would either be Steady (if you are a core-member) or Pickup Game (if you just play with which ever table has room on any given session).

1. Steady Group - Home Brew
2. Steady Group - PF Adventure Paths
3. Steady Group - PFS
4. Pickup Games - PFS, one-shots, gameshop
5. Not in an active game (less than 1x a month)
6. Another system/style

Edited: Thanks GN and Jiggys

Ok fellow GMs, once again a chance to share your collective wisdom with each other as well as new GMs who may search the forums for something like this.

The situation:

A PC has died, or a new player wants to join your gaming group.

How do you get that new PC (in either case) linked up with the group in a way that makes "some" sense?

How have you done it in a game session?

Any feedback from your players, or do they really just want to get on with the game and not ask too many questions about "how long was this rogue wound up in that spider-web before we got here and killed it anyway?? And what was she doing -way out here alone-???

Do you make them start a level down, same level, or something different?

My wolf-shaman druid is focused on melee TWF using shillelagh buffed quarterstaff with a lot of flanking with the companion. Currently 4th level and soon leveling to 5th. Rest of party is 2 x Paladins, 1 Rogue, 1 Fighter.

Incomplete Stats (sheet is not with me right now)
16/19/16/14/16/12 - (4d6 method and I was enfuego)
Feats: TWF(Human); Scribe Scroll; Craft Wonderous
AC:19 (Hideshirt+1 + 4dex + RoP +1)
HP:36
Melee: +8 to hit; 2d6+4/+2 with mwk qtrstaff and shillelagh buff (also house rule reducing TWF pen by 2 at 19dex) with flanking its +10 to hit hanging right there with the fighter/paladins. Also if I Aspect - I get a bonus bite w/trip.

Background and going forward thoughts on the character (will probably top out around 11 or 12th level in this campaign)
As a wolf-shaman, I got aspect of wolf at level 2, but don't get wild-shape until 6th (then "as 4th level for non-canines or as 8th level for canine animals).

Looking over my possible options when I finally get WS, I believe I'll continue combat in human form with aspect of wolf and use WS for utility/special requirements such as flight/swim/burrowing.

So, I'm looking at adding Shield (AC to 23) and/or Enlarge Person to my buffing options. With Enlarge and Shillelagh (3d6+5/+3 and 10' reach) I'm having a hard time seeing why (other than DR issues) I would invest in a magical weapon for a few more levels, except to have a backup weapon.

Wand + UMD option:
Pros: get WS in about 1.5 levels from now; continue to stay on track for 7th level wolf companion advancement as well;
Cons: with my CHA my max UMD next level would be +6, making arcane wands only 30% success as druid. With no arcane casters in the group I can't ask someone else to use it on me either.

Wizard Dip Option:
Pros: Gain 3 more orisons; add 4 more 1st level spell/day from Wizard (1 base + 1 Int + 1special school +1 bonded item); use arcane wand at will so with $ we as a group could invest in some nice options; gain all knowledges as class skill; gain +2 on will save
Cons: push off WS to 7th level; and wolf advancement to 8th; another 0 BAB level as a 3/4 BAB

I know potions would be an option, but that seems like it would start to become cost prohibitive as a every combat buff.

It seems like the obvious choice is Wizard dip, but looking for the collective wisdom of the forums for what I might be missing.

RPGs are an inherently social game, and often involve friends and family members. Spouses and significant others can come to the game table or spawn from the game table. When things are great, its fun for all, but sometimes if the real-life relationship ends it can destroy a gaming group.

What have your experiences been with either player/player or GM/player out of game relationships? Did it affect/spill over into the game?

What advice would you give a new GM if they were considering bringing their significant other into their game?

What to avoid and how to protect the group and integrity of the game itself?

Edit: Informal survey: Do you currently game with a spouse or significant other?

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

How did this one change your game? Where there things you didn't anticipate during encounters or skill challenges? Any things a new GM should consider as these spells enter the game?

PRD Link to Wish

Whether part of a well executed NPC plan, or as a "out" to salvage your game from an apparent TPK, many of us have put our PCs under lock/key, rope/knot, etc.

What ideas would you share with a new GM about how to do this?
Did you allow any weapons to be missed during the pat-down?
How liberal were you with the PC escape plan?
What did they use for weapons or was it a stealthy escape?
Is it a good idea to have an NPC, even a 0 level commoner, prisoner with them to help provide planning ideas if the group is struggling?

Nice work everyone who helped out with the GM Advice: TPK Thread. Some nice ideas, advice, and stories in there that a new or old GM could use or consider.

Would like people to share their ideas for how to make combat scenes more interesting. A great chance for all of us to pick up a tip or two.

Descriptions?
Props?
Ideas for things on your battle mat?
Terrain?
Weather effects?
Ideas for adding complexity?
Indoor ideas vs outdoors?

Basically anything you do or have seen done that helped immerse the players in the scene and make it more interesting than just chess with d20s.

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

How did this one change your game? Where there things you didn't anticipate during encounters or skill challenges? Any things a new GM should consider as these spells enter the game?

Of course if you have druid in your game, this thread may be useful as well :-).

PRD Link to Beast Shape

Looking to start a series of threads on GM advice to tackle some common or not so common issues. Some of the topics exist in mixed various threads, but with game advances, new forum members etc a good topic never hurts being revisited with new thoughts. Good ideas for new GMs and new food for thought for experienced ones. So here goes the first shot.

TPK.
Depending on the type of game and the table's social contract maybe they're common, or maybe its never happened at your table. How have you handled it in your games? Would you have done it different if the same situation happened with another campaign you've run (or for a game shop group vs a family game?)

As a player how did you take it? Would you rather have the GM fudge rolls to prevent a TPK or prefer the danger of it?

Any advice on how the group can roll with? If you've had it happen and the GM ret-con'd it....how did the group feel about it over time?

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

How have you seen it used? Ever had NPC cast it on player?

PRD Link To Geas - Greater Geas - Quest

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

This is an oldie but a goodie. Does it make it harder to whittle down the group prior to the boss battle, or is it the spell you -assumed- your group would use when you sent them 6 levels deep into a dungeon and they got TPKd?

Rope Trick link to PRD

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

Any in-game points to share, encounter outcomes, and what about monsters casting it on the party? Ideas to ensure the encounter provides challenge for the players? In game consequences?

PRD link to Dominate Person

We might as well include Dominate Monster in same discussion.

School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9

Target one creature

This spell functions like dominate person, except that the spell is not restricted by creature type.

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

A pretty straight forward battlefield control spell. However, with targets and duration = 1 per level, has potential to significantly affect actual encounter difficulty since drop weapon, prone, helpless are all possible outcomes of failed save.

Any in-game points to share, encounter outcomes, and what about monsters casting it on the party? Ideas to ensure the encounter provides challenge for the players?

PRD Link To Greater Command

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

Since we know there are a couple very extreme theory crafting examples of this one, please start by reading the spell description if you plan to create "theoreticals" to ensure your example actually accounts for the spells restrictions. If you're interested in exploring possible but extreme options, even though they've not happened in your game there is room for that. But lets all respect that options for dealing with extreme or disruptive uses of any ability (not just spells) will often also be extreme. As people provide options to resolve what you proposed, that's all they are - possible options that a GM could use to resolve the "theoretical example" you created. so lets avoid dismissing them or saying they're invalid, worthless, Not RAW, etc. The GM at the table where it happens can decide that.

So - how have your players used this, how much did it affect combat? Were there misunderstandings about the effects, and what should a new GM think about for encounter design or be prepared to discuss with the player when a caster routinely has this spell on hand?

Magic Jar Link To PRD

An interesting small bit of text that could easily be overlooked in the heat of battle, you retain the casters BAB and extra limbs don't allow you to make more attacks than normal.

Just finished session in my son's campaign and after a pretty non-dangerous encounter with a dragon that ultimately flew off, we were discussing the encounter design and that the dragons as listed in CRB don't get flyby attack until the last few age categories for most chromatics.

The only pre-req is fly, so I'm looking for some dialogue on why that wouldn't be the first feat a dragon would learn or even receive as a bonus feat from wyrmling on up.

I would see even the wyrmling using flyby as its normal method while its breath-weapon recharged, and only swooping down to 5' level to maximize its BW AoE; and lastly only landing when it could fight a lone target as the norm to maximize its attack routine. The drawback I can see is it'll limit their action economy to 1 attack per swoop, but it'll also keep them from being flanked and put them beyond first range increment of thrown weapons or require the PCs to delay action until the dragon swoops down - in which case, after doing that once, it could just stand off 1d4 rounds waiting for recharge and then swoop.

I can see how that would make them harder to kill, but coming from 1E background....you didn't mess with dragons unless you were prepared to lose some party members. That being said - I really like them in the game as a challenge, and its ironic when you talk to some OS gamers and we played a game called dungeons (saw lots of those) and -dragons- and they were non-existent in some campaigns or TPK'd you the 1 time you saw one in others.

They're the iconic monster, and IMO should still be death on wing or flee to fight another day in almost all situations (still award the XP to the party if they drive off monsters in my games).

Has anyone house-ruled fly-by as a bonus feat for all dragons, or replaced other feats at the first age category and up? Any in-game experiences if you did or things to consider I missed?

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As with our other threads on this topic, please as much as possible use examples from your actual game. If you're interested in creating a "what if" scenario to get ideas about how to deal with them at your table, then please respect that if people provide options that's all they are - possible options that a GM could use to resolve the "theoretical example" you created.

So - how have your players used either of these, how did it affect combat? Were there misunderstandings about the effects, and what should a new GM think about for encounter design when a caster routinely has this spell on hand?

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As with our other threads on this topic, please as much as possible use examples from your actual game. If you're interested in creating a "what if" scenario to get ideas about how to deal with them at your table, please start with the spell description in mind and what a reasonable player (I know - very subjective term :-) ) would do in a game world which has weather, terrain, high level NPCs/governments, and other beings have access to magic (and know about these spells).

Simulacrum:
Lvl 7; 12hr casting time; Ice-sculpture of target and 500gp powdered rubies per/HD of the Sim.

A couple things I noticed in the spell and notes from other threads and just initial things I'd rule at the table. Eschew Materials is only good for 1GP or less, an ice sculpture would easily cost more than that just for labor, so you'd actually need a sculpture of the intended duplicate, not just a snow-man made by you the wizard. You'll need to keep the sculpture from melting during the 12hr casting time as well or the spell wouldn't work. Doesn't make it impossible to use, but makes circumstances more limited. Considering the possible ways this could be used by nefarious individuals, large quantities of ground rubies could also be considered a "controlled substance" by some kingdoms. It wouldn't stop you from using it, but if you planned something evil you'd need to get it "underground", which might cost more. Has potential to add some RPing to it as well - "we'll just need you to fill out this form, there's a 5 day waiting period on the rubies, and when you come back, please bring your sculpture for approval. The King doesn't want any more copies of himself -or- tarrasque running around."

How have players used it in your game, what controls if any did you implement.

Here's an old link to James Jacob's answers to a lot of questions as well.
LINK

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As with our other threads on this topic, please as much as possible use examples from your actual game. If you're interested in creating a "what if" scenario to get ideas about how to deal with them at your table, please start with the spell description in mind and what a reasonable player (I know - very subjective term :-) ) would do in a game world which has weather, terrain, high level NPCs/governments, and other beings have access to magic (and know about these spells).

So next up: Summon Monster / Natures Ally (or any of the other 1-off summons like Elder Worm)

Caster summons a creature from an increasingly larger and more powerful pool to do their bidding; duration is 1rd/lvl

So far in my games the only issue has been the time it takes for the player to take their turn during combat. They can have a hard time picking out which monster they actually want to summon, and then they have lots of dice to roll.

Tools I've implemented:

1. Discussing with the player out of game to research what each monster can do, and make themselves some notes about when they might want to use it vs another. Helps them not spend time after INI deciding between X or Z from the table. It also helps me as GM provide scenarios where the caster could actually use a particular summoned monster to the advantage of the group.

2. Roll attack and damage dice for PC and Summoned creature at same time if at all possible. Including rolling any followup dice that might be needed such as the free trip or grab. It does take a few sets of dice with different colors, but significantly speeds up combat for every player, not just the summoner. Same technique for companion classes.

We've not had an issue of why does caster/companion class guy get to kill more things, as we're not keeping score, and the encounters are designed to ensure if a player goes cowboy they're really at risk of death. My recommendation - work as a team, use everyone's abilities to the advantage of the group because I'll design the encounter with that factored in as much as possible.

I'm working on this with my son who's a 12yr old new GM and getting him to include the summon/companion (my druid with wolf is in his game) in the APL encounter CR calculations just as if they were a PC helps too.

The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As with our other threads on this topic, please as much as possible use examples from your actual game. If you're interested in creating a "what if" scenario to get ideas about how to deal with them at your table, please start with the spell description in mind and what a reasonable player (I know - very subjective term :-) ) would do in a game world which has weather, terrain, high level NPCs/governments, and other beings have access to magic (and know about these spells).

These 2 are next on the list.
A few key rule points:

Invisibility: 1min/level; +40 to stealth if still, or +20 when moving; goes away if you attack (allows summoning, buffing, and some non-direct threating such as cutting a rope bridge with enemy standing on it)

Greater Invisibility: 1rd/level (4th lvl spell); same function but allows attacks

How do your players, NPCs, monsters use these? How do you keep things fun and challenging? When can it feel like its out of hand?

Enjoy, and lets try to keep it professional.

Fly seems to draw a lot of heat on the forums because people feel it makes skills like climb or classes like Rogue less useful.

How have you seen it used in your game? As much as possible, discussing actual game use while allow more objective dialogue and place how it was used in context.

What advice would you give a GM who's players are about to gain access to it for the first time? Any ideas for encounter design (combat and non-combat) to maintain a fun and challenging environment? Any societal norms/issues/concerns a GM might consider knowing fly is available to players/NPCs.

PS: I realize teleport and fly might be low on some peoples list of Game Altering (Game Breaking?), but we did a good job IMO demonstrating the topic can be discussed objectively and like adults with Teleport. So working one more underhanded pitch before tackling something like Magic Jar/Simulacrum.

Do you think the teleport spell is breaking your game or abused by players at your table? How is it being used? Or if you have an idea of how to keep it in check discuss on this thread.

Complaint: that casters make overland travel a waste of time and they bounced away from an encounter with half the party and then came back for the rest. (Not seen in my game but a paraphrase of what someone else had seen.)

A couple thoughts after re-reading the spell description. First, if they're simply moving between major towns that the caster has a lot of familiarity with, and it is only depriving the game of overland travel between those two towns I would only consider it a problem if I had a good in game reason for wanting them to travel by land, if I didn't then teleport is no different than hand-waving a week of horseback riding.
The spell does have mishap %s or landing in the wrong location, and an option would be if you don't feel they're "dangerous enough" to increase those possible bad outcomes - perhaps even a 1% chance of fatality even with perfect knowledge. Since the table is very forgiving (IMO), I would lean towards a more hazardous interpretation of what Very Familiar meant - "a place you feel at home", might only count for where you actually live. anywhere else at best being a "Studied Carefully".
A more conservative interpretation of the table can also prevent frivolous use when they could use scrolls or multiple slots to teleport away from an encounter, then teleport back and grab a couple more people, and teleport away again. Since you're looking at almost a 25% chance of not getting back to the encounter if it is a place you've only viewed that one time. So effectively there is 23% chance who ever you left behind is going to be waiting for you to walk from where ever you actually ended up on your return trip. if those %s aren't dangerous enough, then increase them as noted. I personally like the "crit-fail" outcomes as much as crit-hits.

Another thing is the note that "Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible." I'd rule that a large storm system is strong physical energy and thus teleport could be made to fail essentially anytime you the GM need the party to travel by more normal means for story reasons. If this is clear from the start as just common knowledge among wizards that storms create problems, then the player wont have as much reason to feel you're needlessly or randomly messing with their caster. I use weather a lot, so this would be common enough that if their teleport to town X didn't work....it probably wasn't the first time. The nice thing about that is they also wouldn't be clued in as to whether or not there was actually a story reason or "just bad landing conditions in Elmwood".

My main thoughts on this one is that there are ample rules to only allow the PCs to use teleport when I want them to in the spell description, and in general I would let the weather affect it enough that I could keep a straight face when overland/water travel was going to lead to a story element/hook.

Since GMs are 1 person, and often playing with 3-6 people you can often be faced with ideas, interpretations, or other things you just didn't think of or have time to read up on. Spells in particular may seem to have the ability to give an unfair edge to a player or the group. Since new players and GM's are picking up PF all the time, and many come to Paizo.com to look for answers to their questions it seems like this would be a good place to have a thread on some of the spells that players and GMs see creating trouble at their table.

This is just an intro thread, what I'd propose is a new thread dedicated to each spell in order to make searching easier - IE if you typed "teleport", you'd be able to find a thread called:

"Game Altering(or Game Breaking?) Spells: Teleport"

It would be helpful if examples of how a particular spell is creating trouble in your specific game. Please no rhetoric about how its just a broken spell, rather describe how its being used in your game and the problems as you see it. The thread then can be built on by other players and GM's who can respond with how they interpret the spell's rules at their table, how they use in game consequences, or encounter design to keep the game balanced and fun for everyone. Ideas might also just give you a second thought about if what your seeing is really a problem.

Since I've seen Teleport listed in a few other places as broken, I'm actually going to start a thread on it. Other spells can go into new threads and so on.

this initial thread might be a good place to add to the list - or people could just start their own thread using the same title structure with the spell name at the end.

If a druid takes a level in rogue, would the wildshape natural attacks qualify (assuming flanking, flat-footed, or no dex) also deal SA damage?

Am asking since my druid and his wolf AC have ended up in relatively frequent flanking situations, and his build is more combative than buffer/healer, so am thinking the additional 1d6 would be nice over time.

Still working through some of the specifics of my Druid build (will not possess or use metal/minerals - thus sacrificing all coinage and gems back into the earth immediately upon gaining them), and it seems that making a living sculpting objects to sell/barter is impossible vs trying to do it by scribing and selling scrolls.

is my math right here?
Scribe a CLW scroll (cost 12.5gp, sell for 25) and you can scribe 1 per day or around 100 gp per week net in our 8day week (we have an 8day week/32day month/64day seasons, and 256 day year based on cycles of the 4 moons) -and-, you can do this while adventuring at 2hr per day for those 1st lvl scrolls.

To earn 100gp crafting a 100gp value bone statue at a DC10 so as not to risk destroying it via failing check by more than 5:
100gp x 10 = 1000sp or "craft points" required to complete.
My Druid has +7 in craft (+1Int+1slot+3class+2MWK tool) a weekly 1d20 will avg 17 x DC10 = 170/8days= 21 craft points per day which is great if you're making a 10sp wooden holy symbol, but approx 49 days working 8hr per day to craft a 100gp statue?

Is my math right? If so, any insight to how this came out in the playtesting and why? am I missing some obvious loophole that would allow someone to get rich via crafting if you didn't do the 10xgp value or was this to prevent players from crafting their own MWK or magical weapons/armor w/o taking several game months of down-time? In which case you'd be levels behind the rest of your group, unless they agree to sit around and grow old while you craft it?

If the math is right, I'm going to parley with the GM to allow me to craft statues, trinkets, etc on a straight GP=craft points (while adventuring - but not using the same 2hr per day as scribe, so basically one or the other each day). Call it divine assistance in finding bone/wood/stones in the wild that are already in an interesting shape and I just need to bring out the dragon/horse/succubus statue that nature already started.

I'm creating a druid with scribe scroll and working with my GM to allow him to scribe them on bone or bark (IE a shoulder blade from a deer) vs paper.
My question is when a scroll is read, is the paper also consumed/rendered useless; or could it be recycled and have another scroll scribed on it? I guess I could harvest approx. 4 "sheet" sized bones from one medium sized animal, so it may not matter either way.

On a side-note
He's vowed to not use or possess metals and gems, including coins because miners are always removing from mother-earth and never replacing, so plans to sacrifice and rebury all metal, coins/gems he gains via adventuring, in order to replenish mother earths "stores". Meanwhile has taken the craft-sculpture skill and will create trinkets from bone, stone, wood to barter/trade. Am also working with my GM to get some "divine" assistance on these crafting so if he sacrifices say 1000gp of coins/metal items, he is able to shave some time off creating items that will sell/barter for similar value. At some point the time to craft would get oppressive - also not able to use metal tools means stone and bone knives, chisels, awls, etc would normally affect time to craft as likely being considered rudimentary.

thanks in advance.!