FullMetalBoxers's page

I think it's fixed as-is. It works in combat. Torturing a kitten is not combat.

Exactly. Regardless of how you view the GM's Call vs. Rules As Written balance, the point still remains that 1) Sig Deed is a level 11 ability, and 2) The free ammo deed is combat-only. Both of these have already been pointed out several times in this thread. There is no exploit here.

To be clear, as per current RAW, Deadly Aim does not work with guns at the first range increment, since it functions as a Ranged Touch attack.

The developers have also said, including in this very thread, that they feel the feat probably should apply, but are unsure how to word it so that it works with guns but not with thrown weapons or spells.

So make it say "Ranged Weapons AND FIREARMS" instead of just "Ranged Weapons." If they want to allow firearms to use Deadly Aim without creating a loophole for spells and thrown weapons, then just write guns in as a specific exception. I really don't get what is so complicated about this.

Blackvial wrote:

All you people that seem to think this is an exploit seem to be forgetting something really important that with out there is no game, the DM.

Are you saying your DM gets pissy because your fighter uses his weapon training EVERY SINGLE FIGHT? Because that is just as much a class feature as secret stash. If it requires DM intervention then it probably needs fine tuning.

I think the point being made is that no matter how hard you rules-lawyer this improbable situation (your "infinite ammo in my boot" scenario), the DM is still going to say "No, that's silly, nice try." Ignoring the fact that Sig Deed requires level 11, which was already mentioned, there's still a logical limit to how much "forgotten ammo" you could have rattling around in your pockets.

Rules-as-written, the In Combat caveat should be plenty to demonstrate the intent of this class feature. The flaw, if any, is in the common sense of any DM that would allow a player to shake unlimited ammo from his boot onto the store counter, not in the way the feature is written.

Damn there's a lot of munchkin going on in this thread. :/

My take on this is that Paizo wants there to be an in-game incentive to encourage Gunslingers to play to the daring, risk-taking glory-hound concept of the class.

My roommate and I are going to be playtesting this class very soon, and we're planning to incorporate a suggestion made in the thread you quoted that passage from:

I think it ties in with a "daring act" - shoot at the head honcho even if you're surrounded by his cronies, attempt to wrestle someone to the ground, dash by a bunch of monsters so you can get into position for that perfect shot. Doing something risky knowing that you could get smacked down for it is worthy of grit.

In that post, 'Rixx was talking specifically about regenerating Grit by provoking AoOs, but the roommate and I don't really see a need to be that specific since such acts already fall nicely within the "Daring Act" optional rules. Basically we're planning on giving the gunslinger Wis Bonus + 1/2 Level starting grit, and taking out all regen except performing "daring deeds," with the GM having final say on whether a deed was badass enough or not. We'll see how it plays out.

Hopefully, providing a little more of a grit pool - with a "take big risks, get some Grit back" mechanic still in place to encourage playing to the concept - will encourage using Deeds more often, and give the 'Slinger a reason to do more than just the boring "get in close range and full attack rinse repeat" tactic others have described.