Enjolly's page

It's also at the end of the paragraph about grenades on page 183 of the CRB.

I really thought 6 was a hard cap for the really tough races.

Admittedly, I haven't seen every race, but I was under the same impression. But this guy is apparently Super Mega Tough. And Fast. And STRONK. And can come up from beneath you like a GODDAMN SAND WORM AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Side note: How would an attack from underground even work? Burrowing says you can't see, so I would probably rule it as a blinded attack vs. a [whatever Starfinder calls Flatfooted, I can't remember] foe.

One thing I missed at first. No -4 for shooting into melee, just cover. Unless it moved locations of course.

That one I already knew. Good riddance, imho. Better codifying the rules for Soft Cover is a welcome replacement.

You'll definitely also want to go over Attacks of Opportunity and Readied Actions, then. Because they do not work the same as previous D20 experience would have you think.

Thanks for that. I'll definitely reread those.

Somebody got +8 hp? Wow. Talk about power creep. :P

Hey, you -know- there's some munchkin somewhere scrolling through excel files looking for that one race with more than 6 HP...

As noted above, even with perfect maneuverability, hover takes a swift. So it requires haste to be able to full attack while flying, no matter what. In typical low to mid level combat, attackers on the ground, climbing, or swimming have the advantage over flyers in terms of damage output because they can full attack.

I'd also like to make a note about the triple grenade throw with a high level Soldier. Remember all penalties to your attack roll apply to the save DC of the grenade, which at a minimum means -6 to your Save DC. Which will typically move it from like 55% chance to save to 85% chance to save. Range penalties also stack with that -6 penalty. Essentially enemies might be failing only on a 1 against those grenades, reducing the damage output significantly.

Thanks for this. One of the dangers of going from earlier d20 systems to Starfinder is that I frequently skim things I think I already know and miss the minutia. I had no idea that you couldn't take a full action and a swift action in the same round, and had also missed the rule about grenade save DCs. I guess I'll have to go through the book with a fine toothed comb if I want to avoid screwing anything up...

Enjolly wrote:

I've also bought the AA2, and there's a race that beats the Dragonkin, easily. Orc is the new god race. Hate having an odd ability score? Never suffer from that problem again!

There's already a post by the developers stating that will be done away with in the next FAQ.

That's probably for the best. I retract my statement of Orc being better, but I stand by the Trox.

Also, I think the Trox gives Dragonkin a run for their money. Forty foot move speed, 10' reach, 8 racial HP (Which I don't think is OP, but I haven't seen that before. Does any other race have more than 6?), Bulwark/Frenzy/Chitin/Grappler which add up to a good bit of combat utility, and a burrow speed. The burrow speed, while not quite as useful as flight, seems like it could cause the same amount of trouble out of combat.

"Oh, those are some mighty fine walls you have there. Be a shame if someone...dug under them." *sunglasses*

Honestly, I think they might even be better. Imagine a Trox Blitz soldier with a reach weapon, or a dedicated grappler. Side note: Is grappling still as good in Starfinder as it used to be in 3.5?

Hovering requires a move action...

I didn't even realize this. That's a strong mark against the idea that Dragonkin flight is overpowered.

I've also bought the AA2, and there's a race that beats the Dragonkin, easily. Orc is the new god race. Hate having an odd ability score? Never suffer from that problem again!

I've got about 22 years, myself. Most of it in 3.5, which is probably the most malleable and abusable system ever created. (Which, in my munchkin years, I devoted a lot of time to breaking.) I don't have a solid grasp on the number balance of Starfinder yet (ac/hp/attack/damage), so I can't just immediately spot broken combos that make you untouchable or push your DPR through the roof, but I am pretty good at spotting synergy.

I'm an architect GM, so I spend -hours- planning every session. Have my players ever out-thought me? God yes. But when you have your players' sheets right in front of you and spend 1.5 hours designing a single encounter, it's pretty easy to cover most of the variables. So I'm not really worried that I'll miss some crucial interaction that ruins the game.

And, as for your theoretical Dragonkin sniper, here's a few thoughts. Dragonkin only have Average flight, which requires an Acrobatics check every round to allow hovering, and 1s exist. Dragonkin Darkvision has a range limit, like every other race. I don't remember if it's 30' or 60', but it's certainly not 250', so nighttime sniping requires some magical or technological assistance. And I'm still not seeing any combination there that's really dependent on the Dragonkin. Any race can play a mechanic with a sniper rifle. Yeah, most other races would need to pay for a jetpack, but that cost is balanced out by the Dragonkin needing to buy a better Dex implant to counter the racial penalty. And anyone can buy a chain and a torch.

And if the Dragonkin does decide to spend every fight flying 100' in the air with a sniper rifle, you can bet your ass that the enemies are going to "randomly" target his little rat buddy much, much more often. Roleplay can be a good carrot or a good stick, even in the middle of combat.

I'm not saying your analysis is wrong by any means, and I'm not saying that the Dragonkin isn't looking like a Tier 1 race, but I will say that I think you're putting a little too much stock in innate flight.

Reach isn't nearly so powerful in Starfinder as in Pathfinder, since you can only ever have one attack of opportunity, and it uses up your one reaction per round, which means you can't use that action for anything else that round (such as feather fall or use the Bodyguard feat).

There's also no way, currently, to get more than one attack of opportunity in a round in Starfinder.

Combat Reflexes didn't survive the jump to space? That's too bad. I definitely understand the reasoning, but I always thought the AoO master was a neat build.

Wow, this thread exploded. Sorry for posting and ghosting, but I had some serious computer issues. Thanks for all the responses!

I agree with the general consensus that flying in power armor seems to go against RAI. I could skirt around it by giving the cute answer that he can fly, but count the armor's bulk against his limit, but at that point I might as well just tell him he can't fly in it.

Magyar, thanks for the heads up on the rules for Riding. You were 100% correct that neither player found the rules to be to their taste. The other player did choose to play an Ysoki, so I've told them that riding outside of combat is perfectly fine, but that it's just too clunky for combat use. They accepted that ruling with minimal grumbling.

So that's two problems out of the way. I'm still up in the air on the other two, and now I have to take Magyar's point about the race as a whole into account. I'm still pretty new to the rules system, but I have a lot of experience in earlier d20 products, so I'll throw my thoughts out here and see what people think.

As far as the race as a whole goes, I agree with Hiruma and Ravingdork. Even looking at it through the lens of resource management, I think it's close enough to count as a wash. The flight is the equivalent of jump boots or (at level 5) a jetpack. This is quite strong for the first few levels, but as has been stated above, doesn't translate well to mid- or high-level play. The breath weapon scales even more poorly. Compare that to things like the extra upgrade slot of the Androids, the free +1 bulk for Ysoki, or even the Human's bonus feat, which are all quite literally invaluable.

Vision upgrades are trivial, and having flipped through the monster entries, I don't think that the immunity to sleep or bonus vs. paralysis counts as being much more than fluff.

The real sticking points I'm finding that separates the race from many others, are the Partner Bond and the size/reach. Partner Bond seems to me to be the biggest mechanical advantage. I'm not worried about the telepathy, as it only functions with one other character, so I view it as mostly just flavor. The second half, functionally granting advantage on initiative checks to half the party, seems like a much bigger deal. I've thought about it, but ultimately I decided that I think it's okay for a few reasons. First and foremost, the RP opportunities provided by the bond are awesome. I always like having PCs with a reason to stick together, and I've never had a bad experience with characters with shared backgrounds. Second, it's paired with a pretty rough ability penalty. The penalty to Dex on a race that's geared primarily towards combat seems to me like it counts as a racial drawback all on its own, and means that most likely the ability just means that the Dragonkin gets to go on it's partner's turn, since his initiative will almost certainly be lower.

That brings us to the giant dragon in the room: the space and reach. My opinion is probably colored by my days gaming in the 90s (dating myself here), but 10' reach in a system without LAs? I can't make myself not see that as nuts. Fortunately, it wasn't an issue. The player changed his mind from Armor Storm to Sharpshoot, so he wasn't attached to the reach. I agree with Ravingdork that it seems like the designers intended to at least have the option for a medium Dragonkin, so that's what we're going with.

Now that he's playing a Sharpshooter, the rules for Power Armor sizing aren't pressing, but I am still curious. Ravingdork, was your comment about resizing just interpreting RAI, or did you find something from the developers?

So what do people think? Did I miss the mark anywhere? The game doesn't start for another month-ish, so if I'm way off on something, I have plenty of time to adjust things.

Okay, so I'm about to start my first Starfinder game, and I have a player who wants to play a Dragonkin Armor Storm soldier. Unfortunately, there are a slew of questions that this pairing raises. I only have access to the CRB and AA1, so hopefully at least some of these are answered elsewhere.

1) How does power armor work for large races? The armor is given its own size category, and the only early-level suit is medium. Are the sizes meant to be an adjustment relative to character size? Can large races not wear power armor until they hit level 10 and can access the Spider Harness? (And don't talk to me about the cargo lifter. I don't hate my players. =P )

2) Flight. The power armor section says that the suit's bulk doesn't count against the character while it's being worn, and the armor size section says that new gear is considered to be tailored for the person buying it. Personally, I think it's a bit of a stretch to picture someone flying around in hundreds of pounds of metal, but the player made a good argument about a tailored suit augmenting his wings the same way it would augment his legs. I'm inclined to allow it, but I want to make sure that I'm not missing some ruling somewhere about flying in heavy/powered armor.

3) Riding. Two players are planning to play a bonded pair, buddy-cop style. At 1 bulk/10 pounds, unless the partner is an Ysoki, I don't see how flying into battle together could work, no matter how cool it would be. I found an old thread that asked about this, but no official answer was available. I'm hoping that this has been addressed?

4) Do Dragonkin even have to be Large? The AA says that terrestrial Dragonkin are 15' long, but that a spacefaring variety exists that's half that size. That's no bigger than a Vesk. Wouldn't that be a medium creature? Are there stats for this breed that I've missed?

I'll probably think of half a hundred other questions, but those are all I can come up with at the moment. Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help!

-Raiki