DipperJC's page

Wow. Didn't expect to open such a can of worms. (And for those of you groaning that I'm now resurrecting it because of concerns that it's "off topic", I feel compelled to point out that the Goblinworks CEO is the one who opened this can of worms and resurrected it previously with the posting of his own PM, and frankly, if you're not interested in what the person with the most voice in the creation of this game is thinking on any topic, I don't know what you're doing here.)

For the record, my reasons for considering child characters (and others, but no one seems to much care for the elderly or the disabled) are outlined here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pden?Suggestion-Box-The-Crowdforging-Concept#1

What DeciusBrutus said in response to my suggestion was succinct, unoffensive, diplomatic, and assuming there really is some law in some other country requiring games make child characters immortal, makes perfect sense from a business perspective, so I won't bother continuing to suggest their inclusion in PFO.

Honestly that doesn't leave a lot of loose ends, so I'm not even sure why I'm posting this, except to say that we gamers have always been a controversial lot, we're the innovators of the world, the ones who still use our imaginations and see what could be and PUSH BOUNDARIES. It seems scary to me to have someone like Ryan at the forefront of that - someone who clearly didn't take any ranks in Diplomacy on his character sheet and has demonstrated, through his comments here, a businessman's value set. In laying out his objections, he's putting not upsetting people and not making waves ahead of asking questions from a gamer's mindset (is it interesting, does it have story value, etc).

This is a hobby constantly under attack. If child characters promote child molestation, then surely murderous theiving characters worshipping evil gods promotes /some/ kind of controversy, and how long before this guy caves and takes away evil characters, or makes the plotline more "family friendly"? If you contributed to this project - gave these people your hard earned money over a year in advance of any kind of product - you might want to seriously consider asking Paizo to put someone more stable at the helm. (As a side note, Ryan, I find it interesting that you basically called the staff of Paizo creepy, given that they included detailed rules for child characters in the recent Ultimate Campaign sourcebook. Perhaps you should learn something about the culture of the people you're making this game for?)

Seriously, this guy's nuts. Get him out of there.

I'm just hoping for the big, overarching character choices:
- elderly characters
- child characters
- ability to declare "family" relationship with other PCs
- disabled characters (one arm, scar, limp, etc.)

Sadurian wrote:

...Whatever the arguments for and against Friendly Fire, wanting to educate children about the dangers of weapons is a very weak one.

I would say that since play is the most elementary and fundamental form of education for not only humans but nearly all forms of vertebrate it is desperately important to attend to what lessons our play might teach.

I would make the argument that what play is teaching is worth serious consideration for adults as well: if it weren't enjoyable it would be irrelevant, but if we have evolved distinct pleasure in our play then it is providing a function intrinsic to our natures.

Have you never wondered why we enjoy such an otherwise frivolous activity? Do you believe it has no significant meaning?

Okay, so if I've understood the thrust of your argument correctly, you want Friendly Fire because Friendly Fire is realistic and realism teaches people more about real world scenarios.

I don't have a problem with that argument on it's face, but any time anyone talks about our "responsible standards" and the "safety of children", I get a little bit queasy, precisely because I want this game to be as realistic as possible within it's fantasy setting. Specifically, as someone who intends to play an evil character on this game, I want to be able to kill children repeatedly and have the chance of getting away with it. I want to be able to Suggestion a good PC, have them throw that fireball with a little more friendly fire involved, dispel the charm, then sit back and watch the good party argue about what just happened. I want the ability to raise undead minions and set them on farmers. I want to convince kingdoms to enslave all gnomes, encourage sexism against women, and routinely execute for crimes.

Now, are you going to try to forbid any of that on the grounds that it might "teach the wrong lesson"?

Can I ask a very pointed question?

What /specific in-game behaviors/ are you lawful evil fans planning to engage in?

Basically, read the American Declaration of Independence. It's my hope to either directly, or, more ideally, indirectly be responsible for everything His Majesty King Charles III was accused of. ;)

I, too, am hoping to make my main character subtly evil, rather than the soon-my-electroray-will-destroy-Metropolis type. :)

I'm hoping for a "quiet power behind the throne" kind of arrangement, perhaps with some dark rituals and deals with the devil on the side.

Maybe we can do lunch at Tony's.

Okay, so... now that I'm $175 poorer, I feel like I've earned the right to raise my voice in this chorus. ;) And I just want to put it out there to Paizo: I hope you don't really see "crowdforging" as "taking a bunch of polls about your own ideas and having people vote".

That's not Crowdforging, that's you releasing your own game with player priorities taken into account. Not that that's a bad thing, but at the end of the day, it's still all your own ideas, your own creative input, and your own sense of how things should be.

I would respectfully submit that Crowdforging can be so much more. :) It should begin with 8,732 surveys stating "What do YOU want to see in this game?" and drawing a lot on us for the creative process, and with that mindset in mind, I'd like to submit my own ideas and hopes for the game a bit early, and invite my fellow backers to use this thread to do the same.

Three things I desperately want to see in this game:

1) Ultimate flexibility in character demographics. At MINIMUM, what I mean by this is the ability to play child characters and elderly characters. Every MMO I've ever seen, the PCs are all 20-40, and I HATE that. I've heard all the objections - "A character that's too old/young would have to be penalized/unequal to other characters." My answer - I'm totally fine with that, I'd play them anyway, and I'm sure many others would because of the diversity it would give to our RP world. Then there's the other objection - "We can't put kids / old people in the game because making them killable would be offensive/horrific." To which I simply say SO WHAT - Walking Dead is the most popular show on cable today and they execute kids ROUTINELY. Same with Game of Thrones. This is meant to be a reality-simulating game, and reality is harsh sometimes, so by all means, let the game be harsh too. (And hey, how cool would it be to magically age/de-age people in a questline or as a result of spells?)

Now, for extra credit, the ability to link characters familially would be the next step, so I could play the son of two other PCs, or the grandfather of same (not to mention it'd be cool to be able to formally declare PCs married during creation with the consent of the other player). It'd be easy to do, presumably people would have talked about the family bonds they want ahead of time so you just make it like a friend request - "Hey X, player Y wants to be your husband/father/son/whatever (with the obvious addition of "foster/adopted" for racial impossibilities or as a flavor choice). And for the God tier, I'd like to be able to play a character with an obvious physical disability - a character with one arm, or a nasty scar, or a limp. Yes, I know and would fully expect skill drawbacks or whatever from the disability, and I say bring 'em on! ESPECIALLY in a world where a character can be completely non-combatant, this would be a GREAT amount of depth (not to mention a nice acknowledgement to the millions of handicapped people in the world to finally have representation in a game).

2) The ability to elect/acknowledge PCs as rulers of towns/settlements, and for those rulers to make proclamations and appoint vassals. I'm sure the obvious, "Player X will pay 50gp to whoever kills the goblins up the hill" will be out there, but what I'm looking for is stuff like, "Lord Arin has proclaimed that the third day after the new moon on the second month is the holiday of Falloo, which shall be celebrated in commemoration of the times when our ancestors believed magic came from chickens. Egg tossing, carrying of chickens under the arm, and sack races are traditional ways of celebrating," and then if my PC is in said town or a resident of said town, the in game calendar pops up and says "Hey, today is Falloo!" or something like that. Something to make it clear that our own PC culture can be established in the areas that we create.

Oh, and the God Tier/Extra Credit for this? HISTORY BOOKS. In game History books writable by the players that can be in local libraries and traded to other libraries around the Realms so people can actually go into a library on the other side of the world and learn about the culture in PC Town X. For that matter, it would be nice if we could fill in-game libraries with player-written poetry and literature and history of various family houses, and then you GM types can bury plot-relevant tomes in with all those flavor books. ;)

3) The ability to "retire" characters/PC Graveyards. Admittedly not many people retire characters in MMOs, but how cool would it be to have graveyards where people could put their PC to final rest, build a headstone that says "Here lies X, his deeds were Y and Z"? Perhaps the incentive to do so would be that choosing permadeath/graveyard grants 1/2 that character's skill points to the creation of a new one or something, I know I would do that if I got tired of going in one direction and trying something new. God Tier: Living Wills that would transfer ownership of items and property to other characters when the PC in question dies/retires. :)

I know all of this is easier said than done, but I do hope that Crowdforging will be about having these conversations, not just choosing Option A or B like we're ordering dinner at a restaurant.

I hope they show you your entry at the end, because I've pretty much forgotten it.