Darl Quethos

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First time GM here, wanted to pose this scenario to the Collective to get your thoughts....

A rogue is being chased through the forest by a fighter. The rogue comes to an area where the canopy is thicker (ie, 'dim light') and there are many rock formations. He thinks it looks like a great place to hide. He rolls a decent Stealth check and waits.

The fighter comes through and fails her perception check to beat the rogue's stealth. But in true fighter fashion, decides to keep walking forward looking for him anyway (move action). The fighter walks right into the rogue's square.

A) in this scenario, would the fighter still be able to use her standard action to make an attack? She was truly unaware of her opponent right up until the moment they bumped into each other. Is it still a normal round or some weird surprise round type situation within the normal flow of combat?

B) if the fighter had walked near the rogue's square and the rogue took an AOO, does the fighter now have the chance to finish their move action and make an attack on the rogue?

Thank in advance for the assistance!


Consider the Staff of Dark Flame...for 47,000gp you get:

Description wrote:

Made from bleached bones that have been fused together, the head of this staff burns with an unholy fire. This staff can be used as a +1 flaming quarterstaff (only one end of the staff bears magical enhancement), and it retains this property even if all its charges are drained. This staff can cast the following spells:

•False life (1 charge)
•Ray of enfeeblement (1 charge)
•Scorching ray (1 charge)
•Fireball (2 charges)
•Animate dead (3 charges)

A +1 weapon that also functions as a staff for spellcasting purposes. Pretty sweet. Other than the general rule about certain magics only allowable in certain slots (ie, no DEX gloves or INT belts), is there any mechanical reason why you cannot instead make a Bow of Dark Flame?

Made from bleached bones that have been fused together, this +1 flaming longbow glows with an unholy light, and it retains this property even if all its charges are drained. This bow can cast the following spells:
•Abundant Ammunition (1 charge)
•Gravity Bow (1 charge)
•Arrow Eruption (1 charge)
•Versatile Weapon(2 charges)
•Windwall (3 charges)

One could argue that a longbow is a more useful weapon than a quarterstaff but that's certainly a matter of player (and character) opinion. Spell levels are almost the same (Abundant is actually a level lower) so from an enchantment perspective it should match up to the 27,133 crafting cross of the staff.

But is it allowed? The crafting requirements for the staff are both feats (staff and weapon) so is it really that different to create a +1 weapon of a different type that functions like a +1 quarterstaff??? Or would something like this have to go the spell storing route?


Im pretty sure I know the answer but the rules wording makes me wonder....Im trying to build a better pyromancer so Ive been reading up on sorcerer bloodlines and wizard arcane schools.

Some things are very straightforward, like the Evocation school's Intense Spell ability:

srd wrote:
Whenever you cast an evocation spell that deals hit point damage, add 1/2 your wizard level to the damage (minimum +1). This bonus only applies once to a spell, not once per missile or ray, and cannot be split between multiple missiles or rays.

Easy enough to understand. But here's the question: if an Evocation wizard ever takes a few cleric levels, does this ability affect ALL evocation spells cast? Obviously it would only add 1/2 the wizard level but if he casts Admonishing Ray in a divine slot does he still add that 1/2 wizard level?

And what about the Elemental Bloodline Arcana:

srd wrote:
Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell's type to match the type of your bloodline.

This one doesn't mention the word "sorcerer" at all.....are they just streamlining the language, or can my sorcerer/cleric cast Ice Strike instead of Flame Strike? Or more specifically, does a 1 level sorcerer dip give my wizard the ability to manipulate energy on his wizard spells also?


Im playing through Carrion Crown and our party is surrounded by vampires...so the cleric wants to drop an Undeath to Death to thin out the herd a bit. In trying to figure out what happens we've come up against some confusing stats, wanted to get the community's take on things......

- the spell has no affect on creatures 9HD or more
- the bestiary entry for a standard Vampire says 8d6+72 leading us to believe it would be 8HD and therefore affected by the spell
- BUT it also says "sorcerer 8", and since the Vampire template says CR+2 doesn't that mean the vamp is a 8 class levels +2 = a 10HD creature? The bestiary listing is CR9 which seems to agree its a level 10 creature and therefore NOT affected by the spell.

So the core of the question is.......if the creature says "8d6+72" does that make it an 8HD creature, or do things like templates etc need to be taken into account beyond that hit points entry to determine 'true' Hit Dice for spell effects etc?

thanks as always!


A debate started in my last RL game session, hoping to get the brain-trust to weigh in with some examples and rulings......

SR:
When Spell Resistance Applies

Each spell includes an entry that indicates whether spell resistance applies to the spell. In general, whether spell resistance applies depends on what the spell does.

Targeted Spells
Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature's spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.

Area Spells
Spell resistance applies if the resistant creature is within the spell's area. It protects the resistant creature without affecting the spell itself.

Effect Spells
Most effect spells summon or create something and are not subject to spell resistance. Sometimes, however, spell resistance applies to effect spells, usually to those that act upon a creature more or less directly, such as web.

Spell resistance can protect a creature from a spell that's already been cast. Check spell resistance when the creature is first affected by the spell.

Check spell resistance only once for any particular casting of a spell or use of a spell-like ability. If spell resistance fails the first time, it fails each time the creature encounters that same casting of the spell. Likewise, if the spell resistance succeeds the first time, it always succeeds. If the creature has voluntarily lowered its spell resistance and is then subjected to a spell, the creature still has a single chance to resist that spell later, when its spell resistance is back up.

Spell resistance has no effect unless the energy created or released by the spell actually goes to work on the resistant creature's mind or body. If the spell acts on anything else and the creature is affected as a consequence, no roll is required. Spell-resistant creatures can be harmed by a spell when they are not being directly affected.

Spell resistance does not apply if an effect fools the creature's senses or reveals something about the creature.

Magic actually has to be working for spell resistance to apply. Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren't subject to spell resistance unless the resistant creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast.

So the first question came up around Resilient Sphere. Our sorcerer was surrounded by Bone Devils and tried casting it around himself as a protective barrier. The debate was whether the SR of the enemy could overcome the sphere and therefore attack the sorcerer.
- One side of the debate was that the "SR Yes" indication in the spell description was for when you cast it ON an enemy, and once it is created around a willing target it takes on the effect of a wall of force and therefore the SR of the enemy doesn't matter since the description of wall says is not subject to SR.
- the other side is that since sphere says "SR Yes", then the enemy SR has the potential to ignore the sphere and attack the caster within. When the enemy tries to smash the sphere it is at that point that the spell tries to affect them and therefore the SR applies.

The next question came up with Invisibility Purge. Same battle, same enemies with SR. Biggest question came up since the spell entry doesn't say ANYTHING about SR one way or the other.
- One side of the debate was that since its a personal spell that effects the CASTER, then the reason there is no listing for SR is that an enemy's SR has no effect on the caster and therefore Purge ignores SR.
- the other side is that since the spell says it creates a 'sphere of power', any creature with SR that enters the area is therefore being directly affected by the spell. 'Directly affected' means SR comes into play and the caster had to made a roll or the enemy's invisibility could resist the spell.

Lots of debate on both sides, lots of rule quotes being thrown around to support each position. Would love to get some opinions and links to support them so we can put these two to rest. Thanks in advance!


Im thinking of building a Myrmidarch and came up with two questions....

1- Normal Magus spellstrike ability allows them to deliver touch attack spells like Shocking Grasp through their weapon as a melee attack. At 4th level the Myrmidarch gains the ability to deliver ranged touch attack spells like Ray of Enfeeblement through his ranged weapons.
Does he ever gain the ability to deliver touch attack spells like Shocking Grasp via his bow? If so, when?

2- Back in ancient times (2ed) there was a weapon, I think called the Elven Reinforced Bow, that could be used as both a bow and a quarterstaff. Does anything like that exist in pathfinder besides the ranger Bowstaff spell?

as always, thanks in advance!


Looking for creative ideas......

My character just got an artifact weapon, very distinct and recognizable. The enemy cult we are fighting wants it so it's my job to keep it out of their hands. BUT its also one of the only weapons that will defeat them, so I need to carry it with me as we enter enemy territory. Im thinking that it will be recognized almost immediately and our cover blown.

So what kind of spells etc are out there that can alter the appearance of the weapon (its a heavy mace) to hide its true form? I need to still be able to wield it so a knitted 'mace cozy' or something isn't going to be of much help especially since the thing will glow like an xmas tree under Detect Magic.........

Thanks in advance!


My party is fighting a dread wraith and I want to use Searing Light

Searing Light wrote:

Focusing divine power like a ray of the sun, you project a blast of light from your open palm. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target.

An undead creature takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6), and an undead creature particularly vulnerable to bright light takes 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d8).

The GM is saying that since the wraith is incorporeal it only does half damage.

Incorporeal wrote:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

Im thinking that the spell is sort of DESIGNED for this sort of battle, is it really considered a 'corporeal' source and only half damage?


Spiritual Weapon:
A weapon made of force appears and attacks foes at a distance, as you direct it, dealing 1d8 force damage per hit, + 1 point per three caster levels (maximum +5 at 15th level). The weapon takes the shape of a weapon favored by your deity or a weapon with some spiritual significance or symbolism to you (see below) and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a real weapon of its form. It strikes the opponent you designate, starting with one attack in the round the spell is cast and continuing each round thereafter on your turn. It uses your base attack bonus (possibly allowing it multiple attacks per round in subsequent rounds) plus your Wisdom modifier as its attack bonus. It strikes as a spell, not as a weapon, so for example, it can damage creatures that have damage reduction. As a force effect, it can strike incorporeal creatures without the reduction in damage associated with incorporeality. The weapon always strikes from your direction. It does not get a flanking bonus or help a combatant get one. Your feats or combat actions do not affect the weapon. If the weapon goes beyond the spell range, if it goes out of your sight, or if you are not directing it, the weapon returns to you and hovers.

Each round after the first, you can use a move action to redirect the weapon to a new target. If you do not, the weapon continues to attack the previous round's target. On any round that the weapon switches targets, it gets one attack. Subsequent rounds of attacking that target allow the weapon to make multiple attacks if your base attack bonus would allow it to. Even if the spiritual weapon is a ranged weapon, use the spell's range, not the weapon's normal range increment, and switching targets still is a move action.

If I cast the spell to attack an orc and that orc dies, the weapon sits there waiting for me to spend a move action to redirect it to attack a new orc. Makes perfect sense......

But what if that orc decides to high-tail it and moves 30' away? If I don't spend the move action to redirect it, shouldn't it continue to follow its last directive of "keep hitting that guy"? Theres nothing that says directing it requires any kind of action so I assume its free to maintain the spell's attack on the current target instead of designating a new target? The phrase "returns to you and hovers" implies the thing can move so therefore can follow an enemy without me needing to spend a move action because that same enemy is now in a different square.

What about if I cannot see the target anymore (stealths/turns invisible/moves around the corner), can the weapon still continue its attack as the spell describes?


Ive got a two-handed melee character (STR 20, current BAB +7) in a campaign where the magic weapons have been a wee bit on the stingy side. For a while Ive been using a +1 keen longsword two-handed since it was the best one we'd found to date, but last session we found a +2 bastard sword and the party asked if I wanted it.

I aged myself by quoting Chevy Chase: "It was my understanding that there would be no math"........................

ANYWAY: Ive got Power Attack and Furious Focus which I use just about every single round, meaning my old damage was

1d8 + 1(sword) +7(STR x1.5) +6(PA) = 15-22 pts per regular hit with a 20% chance to crit (17-20)

If I switch to the + bastard it looks like

1d10 + 2(sword) +7(STR x1.5) +6(PA) = 16-25 pts per regular hit with a 10% chance to crit (19-20)

In-character I want the heavier weapon, that's why I built a two-handed fighter in the first place, but out-of-character that extra 10% chance sounds pretty good and I don't want to lose the extra damage potential. At the moment these are the only 2 weapons to choose from so "switch to a +1 keen falchion" wont help just yet.....but Im hoping those that are better at math than I am can offer advice?

Thanks in advance for the assist!


I’m only a casual comic reader, but I’m pretty sure the Justice League "Tower of Babel" story is where it is revealed that Batman has files on every other superhero, specifically how to defeat them if he ever needed to.

I’m running an Inquisitor of Pharasma through Carrion Crown. We have a party of 7 so the GM has had to modify the ap quite a bit, adding a lot of cool subplots about the temptation of power etc. While it is definitely not a pvp game there is some tension building between the characters and Ive decided that my Inquisitor is getting concerned. He wants to prepare for the worst and have a strategy around how to defeat each of the other characters if necessary.

We are in the middle of Book 3 and just made 7th level. Characters are not optimized (although 1 or 2 are close) and there has not been a lot of 'magicmart' shopping so most gear is what we found in the ap. For example, my 2-handed melee Inq is currently using a +1 keen longsword because its the best magic weapon we've found so far.

I've got some ideas but Id love to get other thoughts for combating each of these characters: strategies or tactics, special items or scrolls to have on hand, etc. My Inquisitor stats are here. Im thinking this is coming soon so I wont have too many levels to change my abilities or pick up new feats (and we’re not using the retraining rules) so I think its mostly tricks, strategies, and equipment that’s going to make the difference here.

Here's the rest of the group:

Ranger w 1 level of Arcane Archer Has all the bells and whistles - multishot, rapid shot, etc etc etc. Pretty sure the character has never drawn a melee weapon ever, and I’m pretty sure AC is below 20.
Current Idea Charge in, sunder the bow, and pummel repeatedly about the head and shoulders.

Ranger switchhitter Not as deadly with the bow but also wields an elven curved blade 2-handed with decent strength. Going toe-to-toe is going to be tough especially since he has a bear animal companion. The character is sub-optimized but still strong in melee
Current Idea Need to find some kind of item to take the bear out of the equation (tanglefoot bag or something?)

Blaster Sorcerer the character isn't optimized but he's an olde school player....magic missile, fireball, lightningbolt, rinse and repeat. We've loaded him up with a lot of the AC-items and he casts Mage Armor when he wakes up in the morning so he's actually not that easy to hit.
Current Idea Timing will be critical on this one: choosing the moments in between mage armors might make all the difference. I will also need to cast Expeditious Retreat to keep him from running too far away. I need to be in his face as much as possible and hope to draw AOOs if he tries to cast. Any other items or tricks to keep him from casting?

Two-weapon Fighter/Rogue I don't consider myself a slouch, but the rogue is probably the most experienced player at the table. Without a flanking buddy he's obviously less of a threat (he primarily uses daggers since he has a ton of different ones) but he has a pretty good Improved Feint so I’m sure I’m going to take sneak damage. He is also a stealthy player in that I’m sure he has toys/items/abilities I don't know about.
Current Ideas Any items/potions that can protect me from that Feint/sneak attack? Upping my WIS bonus comes to mind, either Owl's Wisdom potions or even better a headband. I’m also thinking of maybe opening with Blistering Invective to give him a round or two of the penalties for being shaken (he will easily beat the Ref save)

Dwarven Cleric This character is built for defense, he feels his primary role is to protect the party. He does that by making sure he’s alive to help/heal. He has the best AC in the party (25) and casts Defending Bone every morning also, so right out of the gate I have to either suck up the DR5 or switch to a non-magical heavy mace or something. Even then, with all the domain powers and such he’s not going to be an easy melee target. Good news is he’s not at all built for melee so he's not much of a threat there. IF I can hit him. Oh yeah, and he’s probably the character my Inquisitor is most worried – he’s LN and is already showing ‘the ends justify the means’ mentality about using evil (necromantic) magics to achieve the desired outcome.
Current Ideas This one is tough. He’s got Boots of Striding and Springing so Im going to need Expeditious Retreat again, potentially giving him a round to buff. His WIS is way too high for me to try casting against him or using demoralize. His favorite spell is Blessing of Fervor so he might beat me in terms of action economy. “Run up and hit him” doesn’t seem like its going to work on this one.

MOMM/Hungry Ghost/Quinggong Monk And then we come to the optimizer. He took at least 1 FTR level for the bonus feats, has all 3 Panther and Snake style feats, and his preferred method of combat is to run around with his 50’ move and draw AOOs so he can retaliate over and over again. He is definitely weakest against a single opponent so that’s a good thing for me, but with a crazy Sense Motive his AC can climb high enough to cause me trouble (add to that Barkskin and all that other wackiness and its not going to be a cakewalk). Pretty sure I can take him if we go toe-to-toe, keep him using so many swift actions that he can’t use that Sense Motive trick too often…but I’ve got to catch him first.
Current Ideas Again, Expeditious Retreat is my friend but Blistering Invective probably wont work because of his high WIS. But if I keep chasing after him am I giving him the advantage?

At the end of it all Im hoping it never has to come to this. BUT if my character buys a few random items to keep in his utility belt just in case, that’s not a bad thing right?

Thanks in advance for the advice!


Sorry, I see there are lots of threads out there on this one but they also seem to have some conflicting opinions.

a 5th level LN cleric channels positive energy and takes the Protection variant channeling. I think the first 2 are easy.......

1- "once this choice is made it cannot be altered". Meaning he doesn't choose between 'regular' or 'variant' each time he channels, he gets the Protection variant every time and that's it?

2- "Heal: creatures get channel bonus to AC". So he channels, heals everyone in radius 5d6 * 0.5, and they also get a +2 AC bonus.

3- "Harm: creatures get penalty to AC". This is where the other threads conflict a bit. This cleric gets to channel positive energy to harm undead so any zombies in the area take 5d6 * 0.5 damage and get a -2 AC penalty, that's easy enough....but what about using it on orcs? Positive energy won't hurt them so they don't take the damage, but does the positive energy heal them or anything? I assume no since that channel vs the zombies wouldn't affect PCs in the mix but since the variant is hitting the orcs with the variant ability Im not so sure.......

thanks as always to the collective braintrust!


Our party was told the area we are traveling to is filled with werewolves, so I want to make sure I'm using Bane correctly...

First the easy one:

pfsrd Inquisitor Description wrote:
At 5th level, an inquisitor can imbue one of her weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action.
pfsrd Bane Special Ability Description wrote:
A bane weapon excels against certain foes. Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against such foes

At first I was thinking it was +2 to hit and +2d6 damage, but reading it again Im thinking it should be +2 to hit AND damage, then the extra 2d6?

------------------------------------------------------------

Now the harder one:

pfsrd Overcoming DR Description wrote:

Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment.

Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
Cold iron / silver +3
Adamantine +4
Alignment-based +5

I've got a +1 sword. Im thinking it becomes +3 when bane is active and should overcome the silver DR. But I can also see it as "youre Bane ability is giving you an extra +2, not changing your weapon" meaning I get the bonuses but I do not overcome the DR?

As always, thanks in advance to all!


Thinking about building a gnome sorcerer with the Elemental (fire) bloodline. According to the bloodline arcana, I can give him things like Ray of Fire instead of Ray of Frost.

SRD wrote:
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell's type to match the type of your bloodline.

Looking at the alternate racial traits the character seems a logical fit for Pyromaniac.

SRD wrote:
Pyromaniac Gnomes with this racial trait are treated as one level higher when casting spells with the fire descriptor, using granted powers of the Fire domain, using the bloodline powers of the fire elemental bloodline or the revelations of the oracle's flame mystery, and determining the damage of alchemist bombs that deal fire damage (this ability does not give gnomes early access to level-based powers; it only affects the powers they could use without this ability). Gnomes with Charisma scores of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, flare, prestidigitation, produce flame. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level; the DCs are Charisma-based. This racial trait replaces gnome magic and illusion resistance.

So here's the question: if I use the arcana power to cast Burning Grasp instead of Shocking Grasp, is that change of the 'type' qualify as a change of 'descriptor' so the spell get the 1 level trait bonus? Seems like it SHOULD but since they are called separate things I wasn't 100% sure......


Thraxxis (or anyone else)....

My GM has been using d20pro since we started Haunting of Harrowstone as level 1 characters and overall we've really liked it. We are now at the end of the second book (Trial of the Beast) and we've hit 7th level.

This AP has a lot of custom creatures in it, creating a lot more prep needs for the GM than before. Are there patches/downloads/whatever that include the info from the adventure paths we can purchase to make this part easier?

thanks in advance!


Cleave:
You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.

Cleaving Finish:
When you strike down an opponent, you can continue your swing into another target.

Benefit: If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.

Lets say I have 2 enemies in front of me and they are adjacent.

Scenario 1: I declare a Cleave action, then attack #1 and hit. This triggers a Cleave, so I take the cleave attack on #2 and drop him. This triggers the Cleaving Finish.......am I allowed to attack #1 with the 'Finish even though I already attacked him this round with the Cleave?

Scenario 2: I declare a Cleave action, then attack #1 and drop him. This triggers both the Cleave and the Cleaving Finish.......am I allowed to take both on #2?

I think the answer is 'yes' to both since Cleave and Cleaving Finish are separate actions therefore the limits around attacking the same enemy only once are looked at separately also, but figure I'd tap into the vast knowledge of the forum to confirm. Thanks in advance!


After a 10-year hiatus from gaming my old group got back together via skype and started playing again last year. After some late-night brainstorming we have started coming up with ideas for a new campaign.

Somehow I have been tagged to possibly run this crazy homebrew idea. I've maybe GMed a handful of sessions in my life but am getting pretty excited about the challenge.

The idea is that the first few levels the players will be free-form exploring the world around them, learning about all the wacky stuff thats in store for them. Which brings me to my question......

There are decks for Treasure Troves, Plot Twists, and Magic Items.......but is there a product out there that's random events/encounters? Not just a table for 1d6 monsters but something like "the party is walking thru the woods and comes upon a hermit's hut" with some details around whats there and what might happen.

Ive searched around a bit but havent had much luck. Thanks in advance for the assistance!


"pfsrd' wrote:
You unleash an insulting tirade so vicious and spiteful that enemies who hear it are physically scorched by your fury. When you cast this spell, make an Intimidate check to demoralize each enemy within 30 feet of you. Enemies that are demoralized this way take 1d10 points of fire damage and must succeed at a Reflex save or catch fire. Spell Resistance can negate the fire damage caused by this spell, but does not protect the creature from the demoralizing effect.

Is the save for the 1d10 fire damage? Or is there no save for that and the save is for the additional condition 'caught on fire'

pfsrd wrote:

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire.

Those whose clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

If Im right and the save is for the condition after the damage.....if I make the Intimidate check and you make the save you are Shaken, 1d10 fire damage, and thats it. If I make the check and you fail the save you are shaken, 1d10 fire damage, and set on fire for an additional 1d6 that round and each round til its extinguished. Oh yeah, and all your stuff needs to make a save too.

All for a 2nd level spell that can be cast by a 4th level Inquisitor, who could have a SICK Intimidate stat (+9 at a minimum not counting ability bonuses, race, traits, skill focus, etc etc). Sound right?


Sorry if this is out there but I havent been able to find it....

CLEAVE wrote:
As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat.

So pretty easy to understand: youve got 2 adjacent enemies in front of you, hitting the first triggers a Cleave against the second. What Im wondering is how this stacks with other abilities. For example:

CLEAVING FINISH wrote:
If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.

Ive found other threads that say if Im using Cleave and my first attack drops enemy #1 that triggers both the Cleave and the Cleaving Finish. But since there is only 1 remaining enemy do I get both attacks against him? Fluff makes sense: your swing hits the one and continues onto the second, then you hit the second again on the backswing. But is it allowed or must I have three adjacent enemies to benefit from both? And does enemy #3 need to be adjacent to enemy #2 or enemy #1??

Then it gets even more complicated:
MIGHTY CLEAVING wrote:
A mighty cleaving weapon allows a wielder using the Cleave feat to make one additional attack if the first attack hits, as long as the next foe is adjacent to the first and also within reach. This additional attack cannot be against the first foe.

I have to be using Cleave to make this ability work, and it says 'one additional attack' which cannot be against the first enemy. To me this means I get two attacks as a result of a hit (a Cleave and a Mighty Cleave) and since it only talks about restrictions to attacking the FIRST enemy I can take those two attacks on enemy #2. If thats wrong and I need two additional enemies to attack it seems like very situational ability to add to a weapon.

If it does mean that I get 2 hits against enemy #2 because Cleave stacks with Mighty, it seems to support the notion that Cleave stacks with Cleaving Finish in the same way. And following that thought further, if I have Cleave and Cleaving Finish and a Mighty Cleaving weapon do I then get THREE attacks against enemy #2? Or must I have FOUR adjacent enemies to take advantage of all those abilities together?? Three attacks seems too powerful but needing four enemies exactly adjacent seem like too much.

Thanks for staying with me through that long post, and thanks for yout thoughts!


Hey there, first post, sorry in advance for it.....So after 10 years of not gaming, Im in my first Pathfinder campaign. We've progressed to 5th lvl (started @ 1) and for a while I was only using Core and APG. I didnt find the SRD or these forums until well after we'd started.

So the party is:
- Sorcerer
- Elven Archer (5 levels, I dont think she's ever drawn a melee weapon)
- dwarven cleric (spends most of his time between heal and buff)
- Rogue that he's playing like an "info broker" type (although he isnt shy about flanking in melee with his rapier)
- Monk (2-style master w Snake and Panther, with all the AOOs and retaliatory strikes he's pretty impressive in melee)

And they asked me to be the tank. I decided to try something different and play an Inquisitor undercover as a tank. Plan was to multiclass with primary focus on Fighter, but the more I learned about the Inquisitor the more I liked it. Heres where I am now:

Ftr 2 (Two Handed arch)/ Inq 3 (Heresy), Human LN

STR 18, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 12

Feats (in order)- Toughness, Alertness, Power Attack, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Judgement Surge, Precision Strike

I know, lots of you are cringing reading that. GM hates high stats, only one other party member has an 18. And yes, I got greedy and tried to have it all instead of focusing my points into 1 or 2 abilities besides STR. I was rusty (it had been 10 years)! Obviously my first feats were all to sustain my "cover" and make sure I could actually be the primary melee character in this crew. Then they had figured out my secret, so no longer hiding it and starting to really like the Inqusitor my plans shifted.

We're almost at level so I need to figure out where to go next. So heres the calculator problem:

OPTION 1 - beeline straight for Bane so 2 more Inq levels. ONce I hit Inq5 Ive got the potential to do some nice damage....Falchion two-handed is 2d4+6, my destruction is +3 with Judgement Surge, my power attack is another +6, Bane is 2d6, and if that Rogue hooks me up with a flank I get another 1d6. Sounds pretty sweet to me......except thats only for 5 rounds per day. Currently we're dungeon crawling so we're seen so much combat 5 rounds would go by like nothing (or Id be saving Bane waiting for a big baddie so my bonuses would be a lot less). But man, what a sweet 5 rounds they will be!

OPTION 2 - take another Ftr level first. At Ftr3 with the Two Handed arch, I get 2x STR bonus instead of 1.5 when I use the Falchion. so thats 2d4+8, plus another 8 if I power attack, plus the judgement and the flanking.....but that pushes Bane off until I reach character level 8. But all those added STR bonuses are every melee every time so would last long after I run out of Bane rounds.

Lots of typing, thanks for staying with me........so what are the thoughts from the experts? Is the 2 points in added STR bonus enough to delay getting the Bane ability? Or should I go straight for Bane without delay, and take that Ftr level afterwards? Thanks in advance!