Durkon Thundershield

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We're just finishing Trial of the Beast and are looking for another player. Post here if you're interested.


I’ve got a question about crafting dragonhide armor.

First, let’s make sure I’ve got crafting masterwork armor correct.

Let’s say you’re making a masterwork breastplate. It has two components; the breastplate component (200 gp, 2,000 sp to create, craft DC 15 [10 + 5 armor bonus]) and the masterwork component (150 gp, 1,500 sp to create, craft DC 20 [masterwork]). It costs 1/3 of the market price in raw materials, so 116 gp (66 gp for the breastplate and 50 gp for the masterwork component). If you miss a check by 5 or more, you have to pay ½ the cost in raw materials (33 gp for the breastplate, 25 gp for the masterwork component). You make both parts separately and when both are finished your masterwork breastplate is finished.

This is correct, right?

But trying to make dragonhide armor confuses the snot out of me. The PRD states “Dragonhide armor costs twice as much as masterwork armor of that type, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type (double all Craft results).” But the craft skill states “To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item.”

So how do you craft it? There can’t be a separate masterwork component because that would take longer to make and dragonhide specifically states that it doesn’t. And is the craft DC 20 (masterwork) or 15 (10 + armor bonus)? "Ordinary armor of that type" is DC 15, but you make more per week on the same craft skill roll if the DC is 20. And I don’t understand how the “double all Craft results” part fits in.

This is what I have so far:

200 gp (breastplate cost) + 150 gp (masterwork) = 350 gp x 2 (dragonhide) = 700 gp market price
Raw materials = 233 gp (1/3 market price)
Craft skill failure = 116 gp (1/2 raw materials cost)
Breastplate = 200 gp, 2,000 sp to create, craft DC ?

Am I close? What am I missing?


I have two questions about spells and how they affect liches.

1. Would flesh to stone work on a lich? The spell states that "only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell." There's no mention of "flesh" in the template itself, but the description of the lich in the template says "withered corpse," which suggests flesh.

2. If you kill a lich and it goes back to a phylactery that you haven't touched, can you find the lich with discern location? The spell states "to find a creature with the spell, you must have seen the creature" and "to find an object, you must have touched it at least once." If you kill the lich, the lich goes to their phylactery. You've seen the creature, so therefore you can find the creature with discern location, but if the lich is in a phylactery which you haven't touched you can't find the phylactery with discern location!


I'm DMing the Savage Tide and the PCs are currently in Scuttlecove taking care of the Crimson Fleet. It's a longstanding tradition for the PCs to find someone to mate with to carry on their line (and to play as their next PC), and two PCs are left. I'm looking for NPCs or monsters further along in the adventure path that fit the bill for them.

PC #1: A male red dragon. He wants to keep his line pure and only mate with another dragon (he's not too particular about the variety). I've already used Xiureksor, the green dragon mentioned on the Isle of Dread. Are there any other dragons coming up?

PC #2: A female erinyes. She wants to mate with a fey. I've already used Tyralandi, the half-fiend nymph, and she's a female to boot. Are there any fey coming up?

I could easily add who they're looking for to the jail in Gaping Maw in the next adventure, but they're already rescuing a whole bunch of people there and I don't want to shoehorn anyone else in if I can avoid it.


Does ECL work the same way in Pathfinder as it does in 3.5?

The players I DM for love the half-dragon, half-celestial, half-fiend etc. classes under the Savage Progressions articles. But all I could find in the Pathfinder RPG about ECL talks about not using them for a few of the base races. Do they work the same otherwise?


In one of the Dungeon magazines there was a column by Monte Cook that described a "quick and dirty" CR adjustment. Does anyone know which issue this is in?

Assuming it was Monte Cook and not someone else, and assuming it was Dungeon and not Dragon.


I'm DMing Tides of Dread and so far my party hasn't taken on a single adventure written in the book; they're far, far off the beaten path. Even so, they've done spectacularly well for themselves and Farshore, but there are no Victory Point awards for what they've done.

How many Victory Points would you assign to each of these?

1. Beat the troglodytes near Farshore, but did it non-lethally. They've explained that the Crimson Fleet is coming to destroy Farshore and likely them, and all 20 troglodytes and their 4 remaining lizards are going to help Farshore defend themselves.

2. Found the 4 Pyremian monk/clerics. But since one of the PCs is a red dragon, another is a devil, and another is a gold half-dragon (all fire-related), the party managed to convince the clerics that they're avatars of Pyremius. The monks have agreed to help defend Farshore.

3. Found Xiureksor (CR 11 green dragon). They dropped his Dex to 0 and made him a deal; in exchange for his life and hoard, if he helped Farshore he could keep the treasure from as many pirates as he killed.


I plan to buy a Pathfinder PDF to get a sweet discount and to spite a certain company who shall remain vague. A hint would be Wizards something-or-other. No, wait, that's too obvious. Make that Something-or-other of the Coast. That's better.

But I'm not that familiar with the setting, so I figured I would ask those who know. I have tons of adventures, so that's not really what I'm looking for; what I'm most on the lookout for are templates and racial classes a la Savage Species or Savage Progressions. Are there any Pathfinder PDFs that have lots of either?


I've ran four campaigns that went from 1st level to slightly epic (I won't get into the problems of epic play). Here's what I've noticed about high level play, and possible ideas to fix them. I haven't played a lot with Pathfinder (we're playing the 2nd Savage Tide installment using some of those rules now), but what I've seen so far would apply to it as well:

1. Limited buffs are bad. When I DM spellcasters they pretty much have to cast a quickened spell and a standard action spell every round to be any kind of threat, and with limited buffs they don't stand a chance.

Don't limit buffs. It's a pain for the DM to keep track of them all, especially when they're dispelled, but it's really the only way to do it. The biggest problem is multiple buffs from multiple casters; keeping track of the caster level of every buff someone has on isn't fun. Dispel magic and related spells might work better if they simply had a 50/50 chance of dispelling or not, with the assumption that the caster levels of enemies will scale with the PCs.

2. CRs become less and less meaningful based on the party's equipment. I had a 15th level party face a CR 16 undead, which they had excellent equipment to face, and a CR 16 demon, which they didn't. The undead was killed in 3 rounds while the demon was a near TPK.

I don't know that there is a fix for this. Hopefully they balance out; an easier CR 16 for a harder CR 16. But I think it might be worth mentioning that CRs should be decreased for parties who have specialized training and equipment for that type of monster.

3. Spells become save or die, or they have effects even if you make the save. There aren't very many lower-level spells that do this.

As a DM, it stinks to spend time preparing a monster who gets turned to stone or killed or whatever just for missing a single save. It might be worth considering taking a certain amount of damage (I haven't really thought about the damage) to ignore the effects of a spell. You still take damage, so the spell isn't wasted, but it gives you an option.

4. Fighters begin to lose their luster if they can't get full attacks, but if they get their full attack they usually kill whoever they're fighting. There's not a lot of middle ground.

I don't think there's a fix for this. You just have to keep the bad guys moving, but if they're fighters, they lose attacks as well. I think it's too embedded in too many rules to fix.

5. Ranged weapon PCs become incredibly powerful; they can stand still or move very little and still attack virtually anyone on the battlefield. I've found this is tempered somewhat by the fact that they have to take many, many feats to do it effectively.

No fix, really. It takes a long time to be able to do it.

6. Healing becomes very important. Mass heals go off on a regular basis to keep everyone alive. Arcane casters usually teleport away, drink potions, and come back, while clerics are forced to continually heal and do little else.

More quickened spells that can heal would be nice. That way the cleric could heal with a quickened spell and still cast a useful spell in combat (or vice versa).


Many stat blocks for 3.5 give a creature's grapple bonus. In most cases, that's the creature's CMB as well, and you just add 15 to get their CM DC.

But when it comes to larger and smaller creatures, the math doesn't work because 3.5 grapple gives a +4 bonus/penalty for size differences while Pathfinder doesn't.

In the interest of backwards compatibility, what about making the CMB for monsters larger or smaller than medium scale the same as they do for the 3.5 grapple rules?


Sorry, posted twice. Stupid Internet Explorer freeze-ups . . .


I think it's lame that a suit of dragonhide armor doesn't protect you against the dragon's breath weapon. Dragon's are generally immune to whatever their breath weapon is, and I think it's safe to assume that it's their scales that do it (since that's what would be affected first if they were hit with the effect).

Would it be terribly unbalancing to give dragonhide armor resistance 5 to the same energy type as the dragon's breath weapon? Or if the breath weapon doesn't deal damage, such as a shadow dragon, then a +2 save vs. whatever the breath weapon does?

Maybe it could scale up as well; resistance 5 or +2 save for light armor, resistance 10 or +3 save for medium armor, and resistance 15 or +4 save for heavy armor.

I would be happy with resistance 5/+2 across the board, though.


Instead of level dipping to get a class's ability, I propose spending feats to get them. It's been done many times before:

1. Paladin's smite as a feat from Unearthed Arcana
2. Fighter feats are already class abilities
3. Rogue's sneak attack as a feat from Unearthed Arcana
4. Animal companion as a feat on Wizard's website
5. Substitution levels which switch one class's abilities for another's

I propose the following two feats (the names still need work).

First:

Base ability improvement

Benefit: You can increase your non-class specific abilities as feats. You may choose either of the following:

1. +1 BAB (never greater than current ECL).
2. +2 saving throw bonus (+2 to a single save; base save can never be greater than HD/2 rounded down +2).

Second:

Class ability as feat

Benefit: You may take class specific abilities, such as a barbarian’s rage or a paladin’s smite evil, as a feat. The prerequisites include:

1. Maximum base hit points equal to or above the maximum base hit points for the level at which the class gains the ability. For example, a 2nd level sorcerer has 12 hit points (2d6 HD). Likewise, a 1st level barbarian also has 12 hit points (1d12 HD).
2. Base saves equal to or higher than the level at which the class gains the ability.
3. BAB equal to or higher than the level at which the class gains the ability.
4. You must meet all of the base class's restrictions, such as a barbarian’s alignment or druidic armor.
5. If the class ability is related to spellcasting, you must be able to cast spells of a level equal to or higher than the maximum spell level of the spellcasting class and it must be of the appropriate magic type (arcane or divine).

Special: Prestige class abilities may also be taken, with the added restriction that you must meet all prerequisites to enter the prestige class.

The ability gained does not increase in strength. In the case of scaling class abilities, such as sneak attack or spellcasting, the feat may be taken again at a higher level. Otherwise the feat behaves exactly as the class ability.

Example: A 6th level rogue wants to gain spellcasting ability as a sorcerer. The prerequisites for spellcasting as a 1st level sorcerer include 6 base hit points, +2 base Will, and Cha 11+. If the rogue met those requirements, they could gain spellcasting ability as a 1st level sorcerer. They do not gain a familiar, bonus feats, or any other abilities other than spellcasting. If they took this feat and then later took a level of sorcerer, this feat would be lost. They could, however, increase their casting ability by taking further feats as long as they met the base sorcerer requirements each time.


There have been a lot of great discussions posted on these boards about rules changes. Some of the rules that have been generated have been great, but for whatever reason weren't used; it could have been due to backwards-compatability, choosing a single rule out of a group of others that were just as good, or some other reason. The rule was still good, it just wasn't used.

What would be the possiblity of having a section of the final Pathfinder release devoted to alternate rules, along the lines of Monte Cook's Experimental Might books or Unearthed Arcana? Or if not in the book, maybe a section of the messageboards with well-developed and laid out alternate rules?

It just seems a shame for all this rules-y goodness to be lost along the way.


I have one big problem with paladins. Not everyone they fight is of evil alignment, they're just doing something evil whether they know it or not. And since smite evil is one of the paladin's main abilities and they're limited in its uses, it really stinks to hit an opponent with a smite just to have the DM tell you "Sorry, he's not actually evil."

I propose one or both of the following fixes:

1. Make the detect evil ability a quickened instead of a standard action so that the paladin doesn't have to waste a round to find out if an enemy really is evil.
2. Have the smite discharge ONLY against an evil creature. His weapon might glow with holy energy, but unless he hits an evil creature it won't discharge, and if he wants he can dismiss the charge from his weapon to be used at a later time.


I remember seeing in a Dungeon magazine in the last couple of years a template that added extra limbs to a creature. Does anyone happen to know where it is? If not I can go searching through my mags for it, but if someone knows right away it would save me a lot of trouble . . .


A few things before the crunchy bits to put my optional rule in perspective.

1. I've never liked spellcasters or anyone else having to spend XP to make items.
2. I've never liked how spellcasters have to use feats to make magic items, which are essentially wasted feats since they can't be used while adventuring.
3. Fantasy books don't always have spellcasters making magic items (Bruenor made Aegis Fang, and he wasn't a spellcaster). Plus I've always wanted a way for PCs and others to be self-sufficient if they want and make their own items.

On to my optional rules:

You do not need magic item creation feats or spellcasting ability to create magic items. The requirements for creating a magic item change to the following:

 Caster level requirements are met by having an equal number of HD.
 The cost to create a magic item is 70% of the item’s base cost in gold pieces (equal to ½ of the item’s value plus the 4% experience point requirement using the rule of 1 xp = 5 gp). No experience points are spent.
 Spells are required as normal, but if you don’t know the spells required you may substitute creature components. A creature’s components are usable as a spell requirement if they meet the following criteria:

 The creature has the spell required as a spell-like ability.
 The creature has abilities related to the spell required at the DM’s discretion. In this case, the CR of the creature required must be equal to or greater than the spell’s level.
 A creature can only be harvested for a single spell requirement for the creation of a single magic item.
 Properly harvesting a creature’s components for a spell requirement requires a survival check DC 10 + creature’s CR.

Example: PC #1, a 10th level fighter, recently killed a wyrmling red dragon. He succeeded at the survival check to harvest its components of DC 14 (10 + CR 4). He wants to use those components to create a +2 flaming longsword. He needs to meet the following requirements:
 5th level caster (craft magic arms & armor feat prerequisite).
 6th level caster (3 x weapon’s enhancement bonus crafting prerequisite).
 10th level caster (flaming weapon property prerequisite).
 12,600 gp (70% of standard purchase price for a +3 weapon, market price 18,000 gp).
 Masterwork longsword.
 The spell flame blade, flame strike, or fireball, or an equivalent component from a CR 2 creature (flame blade is a 2nd level druid spell). Since red dragons have the fire subtype, breathe fire, and are CR 4 (meeting the requirement of a CR 2 creature), the DM allows its components to be used.


Here's what I do with skills in my home campaign that might work for Pathfinder.

Skills have three tiers:
Untrained = 0 ranks
Cross-trained = (HD + 3)/2 ranks
Trained = HD + 3 ranks

All skills start as untrained.

When you take a class, all skills on their skill list become cross-trained.

Every level, instead of gaining skill ranks, you train in a single skill; untrained to cross-trained or cross-trained to trained.

If you multiclass and the new class gives you a cross-trained skill you've already taken cross-training in, it upgrades to trained; if you're already trained, pick a new skill to train in.

Corner-case stuff:

Humans gain training in an extra skill at first level.

Cross-training in a language allows you to speak and read it.

Barbarians can learn to read and write by cross-training in literacy.
___

It's easy to keep track of. For each skill, add up your ability modifiers, racial modifiers, etc. (you're already doing it now, so nothing new here). Add a note of what training level it's at ("U"ntrained, "C"ross-trained, or "T"rained). Keep a note at the top of the skill section on your character sheet showing what your trained and cross-trained bonuses are. Then if you need to roll a skill check simply add your training bonus to your total modifiers and you're done.

No more changes to a half-dozen or more skill totals every level. Your base additions are what you calculate, and you add a set number to that depending on your training level. Going up a level with regards to skills is as simple as changing a U to a C or a C to a T and changing two numbers at the top of your skill section.

As for backwards compatibility, most monsters have max ranks for their skills in their stat block, which this system duplicates as training, so you've got the same numbers. And since most monsters barely even use their skills during combat it doesn't really affect using them on the fly, but if you wanted to it's easy. If it's in their stat block it's a cross-trained skill (equivalent to how skills listed in a stat block are class skills in 3.5), so they can be trained in a number of those skills equal to their HD. Lower the ranks in the rest to cross-trained and you're done.


I understand you're looking for ideas on how to give bonus hit points to PCs, especially at 1st level, to keep them alive at lower levels. Here's what I do.

First, maximum hit points + Con modifier at every level.

At 1st level, all PCs get +30 hit points. To keep things balanced, all enemies ALSO get +30 hit points, regardless of CR, HD, ECL, or anything else.

At 5th level (when the party is APL 5), the PCs lose 10 of those points. Enemies now only get +20 hit points.

At 10th level (APL 10), you lose 10 more hit points. Enemies now get +10 hit points.

At 15th level (APL 15), you lose the final 10 hit points. Enemies no longer gain any bonus hit points.

So you get extra hit points at first level, but the monsters do as well to keep things balanced (and it's very easy to add the extra hit points to enemies). The higher level you are, the more hit points you have from class levels and the less important those extra hit points become, so they slowly fade away at an equal rate for everyone.

30 hit points is what I go with. It could be 15 to start and drop by 5 every five levels instead, or a different number of hit points that drop by a different division of levels. The basic premise is that what you do to the PCs you have to also do to the monsters to keep things balanced.