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Thiles Targon wrote:

Drachasor wrote:

If the hair is your ONLY natural attack, then it is treated as a primary attack. No penalty to attack with it and 1.5 strength (replaced by int) damage.

Quote:

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

The text for the ability says "Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can

use it as a secondary natural attack", so it's a secondary attack, no attack penalty, .5 strength bonus.

And that still doesn't change the rules for natural attacks which states if it's your ONLY natural attack it's treated as primary (even if it's normally secondary) and gets full attack bonus and 1.5x str on damage.

There's nothing in the power that changes this default rule.

If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.

The Witch has the option to make multiple attacks (unarmed strike/weapon attacks) so the hair is still a secondary attack. I was hoping to find a way around the -5 and .5 str but it makes sense, you are taking your best stat and turning it into a combat ability stat. That would just be op imho. :) that said, i would still want it to work the other way but balance. Just think about how damaging it would get when you are pumping up your int, adding touch spells, with reach and a higher attack stat than the fighter. It's still pretty great as is, with reach and flanking and some touch spells in there, you can help out the tank and still be de-buffing the enemy, casting cure spells on your allies without having to get up close, and manipulate objects. And as far as activating the hair, I would think that if they said it was instant then it wouldn't take an action. Instantly, in regard to other spells and items, is usually as part of some other action. (you use the command word and X happens instantly, you cast the spell and X happens instantly) I would think that the instant hair growth means you can grow it out and attack with it and still move. It should at the very most be a swift action, but I would rule it a free action.

If a eidolon doesn't get to keep any equipment, what would be the point of ever giving it the Martial weapon proficiency? Would you really want to have your summoner wandering around with a weapon they aren't going to use, just so they can gear up their eidolon? If I create a large eidolon and get him a large great sword or any large equipment, then when my eidolon dies I have to lug around a giant sword that I can't use. I have to assume that as part of the ritual you get to designate items that are bound to the eidolon. I don't think the eidolon would be able to just grab things and take them with it, it would have to be part of the ritual or something. If it were as simple as having the eidolon touch something then it would be broken. (Disarm the badguy and then disapear) The summoner would have to give the items and bind them to the eidolon, as part of the ritual. Otherwise everytime the eidolon dies, the Summoner is stuck lugging around everything they had which doesn't make sense to me.
If they don't get to keep the items, then why let them have weapon proficiencies. I can't imagine they expect the players to summon their eidolon, wait for them to gear up, then go into battle. At least not with the Summon Eidolon spell. am I supposed to keep 2 stat sheets for my Eidolon with and without gear? It doesn't sound like a sound judgment to me.

Thanx, i've been looking for that for awhile now. i would never have thought of 359. thanx to the other guys who mentioned DragonDex in another post. thanx again.

i can't remember what issue i read about body modification, i think they had scarring, and inserting things into the skin, hopefully someone out there will know what issue i'm looking for.

I wouldn't mind seeing DR/+1 and DR/+3 and such back specially if you combined it with the material DR so the more powerful demons could have DR/+3 and cold iron and special spells create skeletons that a +2 bludgeoning weapon to take out. you would need to have spells that could switch your weapons type for a little while. like maybe a level 2 spell that allows you to give a weapon a coating of cold iron or silver for 10 min/level that costs 100gp worth of silver or cold iron maybe? sounds like a reasonable spell to me. then once again you make the wizard important, and the more prepared group can face down whatever they confront.

how about giving them an option at that level, either the master strike, and a couple skill abilities. i think a nice ability would be something that lets them sense traps automatically. they get to roll an automatic search check any time they come withing 30 ft of a trap, if they succeed they automatically know what kind of trap it is and how it works, giving them a +5 to disable device. or maybe the rogue is always considered to be taking 10 on search checks, so they can always sense any traps.
then something for the quick talking rogue. like being able to take 20 on a diplomacy of bluff check as they try multiple angles and quick talk their way into or out of a situation

i've heard like 4 people say the spells are getting weaker. where are they getting this from? i've never been a big fan of playing a spell caster, but i DM them and i've had friends who have been playing wizards since 2nd ed. i don;t think we've ever talked about the spells being weak in any way. i think it all comes down to how you play the spells, not the spells themselves. OMHO besides the wizard needing to hide and use his spells makes them be more creative to stay away from combat. i always thought the feats that negate spell failure were kinda counter creative. if your gonna make it easier for the wizard to wear armor, then don;t increase their HD it should be one or the other.

i have to agree with Brit O, i've never heard a mage complain about low hit points, they have always understood that their spells rock and as for the whole orc around the corner hitting the mage, what group puts their mage in the front? the mage should be behind the fighter. and if the rogue had been doing his job right, ie sneaking and searching, he would have found the orc and been able to come back to warn the rest of the group. but the new rogue with higher hit points is more reckless and wasn't paying attention.

personally i think the biggest issue i see with the whole rogue is the fighter thing, #1 sneak attack shouldn't work against everything.
#2 the rogue doesn't need to have d8 hit points, don't encourage him to be a front line fighter.
#3 if the monk, and the rogue both have instant kill attacks, why doesn't the fighter.

something i incorporate in my games is called shot feats, only fighters can get really good at called shots with all the bonus feats. the called shots allow you to slow the enemy down, reduce their effectiveness at attacking, and even with, difficulty, decapitate the enemy.

2 things i had alot of fun with and took to other games were the Charm rules. weak little magic like trinkets that bound nature magic into weak bonus items. and the herbalism rules from one of the companion books "Against the Shadow" they are alot of fun i highly recommend the game

I played it and i liked it alot. the history is good and i had alot of fun trying to learn magic and create magic items for me and my friends. then being chased by the Legates (bad guys, kinda like dark paladins) both the fighters and the magic users have alot to do.

the whole made in america point is pretty much moot, everything we do has some connection with china, so whats the point is arguing about it? next, from what i've heard, 4ed sounds alot like WoW. alot of the online roll playing games have tricks that take you out of the game. my friend tried it and said there are rules for the fighter to "mark" a target. if the target attacks someone else they suffer a penalty to attack... what causes this? some mystical link that non spell casting fighters have? and i guess the paladin gets to deal his charisma modifier in damage to someone he has marked...? again why? he sends some punishing bolt of power at someone who he marks that doesn't attack him? it just doesn't have that "based in a real world" feel like all the other editions. from what i've heard about it it just seems like its all based on WoW and other online RPG's even the enemies are all designed with WoW in mind with mobs, leets, and Boss monsters. i prefer my fantasy Role Playing to have a sense of reality inter mixed.

I agree with Quandary. they made the empower spell feat for just that reason. level 1 spells are simple and weak compared to higher tiered magic. thats why their saving throws are so much weaker. and besides, what 20th level wizards really gonna use a color spray on something strong enough to challenge him? at that level the lvl 1 spells are gonna be used to impress simple folk and take out the goblin horde ravaging the town he's resting in.
(the wizard yawns as the rampaging horde closes in on the town, he lifts his hand and casts an enlarged color spray over his shoulder, dazzling the town people and stunning half the goblin horde. the remnants of the horde scramble to escape as the town militia chases down the disorganized goblins.)
If you want a low level spell to be useful at higher levels use empower spell.

i remember reading an article about armor grafting, but i can't remember what issue it was in. It had other things like skin pockets and stuff. if anyone remembers what issue it was in i would appreciate the help. or if anyone else knows where i might find some legit rules. i'm working on a Phyrexian campaign, and the whole idea of grafting metal to the body makes alot of sense.

I'm a big fan of the whole phyrexia idea from Magic the Gathering. I've been toying with the idea of bringing them into my games. some of the ideas i've had are working out well, i was wondering if anyone else has used them and if they have any advice and such. so far i'm using the artificer from Eberon, the soulforger from quintessential wizard, and some of my own ideas. i haven't made either the stats for the Phyrexian plane (don't have the Planescape book) or Yawgmoth the god yet. i'm looking for rules on altering the body with metal and such. i know there was a section in one of the dungeon or dragon magazines on grafting metal to your body i just forget which one. any one else remember? hopefully other people can give me some other options.

Sleep. then you can catch it and put it in your coworkers coffee or something. :)

i personally liked the type and material DR the most it made sense that some monsters needed special weapons. however DM's that constantly throw you against random DR monsters without special reasons are just being jerks. adventures featuring special DR types should be something characters are encouraged to research and get to know before they encounter. the DM should keep those monsters around and create a theme around just that type of DR, let the fighter and rangers develop habits to fight them, maybe once or twice throw the players a curve ball. you shouldn't have to carry around a golfbag of weapons (thinking Casey Jones) if you have a fun good DM who is there to entertain and not frustrate the players. but all in all i agree DR/magic was a disappointment stick with the +1-+5 range but keep silver, cold iron, adamantine, etc and definatly slashing, piercing, bludgeoning. it adds depth to monsters that have it. another option i've used, letting some weapons be able to switch their types (great sword becomes bludgeoning when hitting with the flat of the blade, short sword becomes slashing when you strike with the edge and not the point, long sword deals piercing when you strike with the point) but you have to take a penalty to hit when you use it in an awkward manner

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone, the ideas were very helpful, and may solve a lot of issues. It's nice to know that there are ways to work it out. Thanks again.

I know there are family gamers out there. I'd like to find out how to make it work so the wife and kids don't feel like i'm wasting all my free time on the game and not them. I could really use the help so i can play and still have time with my family. It seems kinda unfair for me to ask all my players and DM to come over to my house all the time. so any advice i can get from family man gamers would be really appreciated. Thanx for the help

I will just start right on.

1) Instead of using charges on wands, I would suggest to make them usable only once for a certain time periode but then never uncharge.
(f.e. a wand allowing to cast "insert spell here" once per day, is much cheaper and easier to create then a wand that can cast the same spell once per hour/minute/round.)

2) Casters with the appropriate item creation feats should be able to improve magical items with additional abilities (where appropriate, f.e weapons)

3) Casters with the appropriate item creation feats should be able to disenchant "lower" magical items to use some part of their energy to create new items.

4) I would combine the creation feats to the following:
* Arms and Armory
* Wands and Staffs
* Scrolls and Potions
* Wonderous Items, rods and rings (I'm not sure about this one)

As far as #2 you can do that it just takes more money and XP to add abilities to an existing magic item. i agree with the combining and i think that forge ring should be available earlier. as far as making wands X use/day just house rule it but i think the charge system not only helps reg the rules but also seems to work well. and as far as #3 i've seen splat books that allow for deconstructing other items and using the XP in them to create other items. (also i think the Eberron artificer can do something similar)

Frank Trollman wrote:

In third edition rules you literally are assured of getting a Ring of Blink. Specifically. It's the thing you need, and you are expected to trade your other magical loot in as "character wealth" in order to purchase the items you actually need. And while I loathe it, the 3rd edition is created predicated on the idea that people will do that. Heck, Andy Collins said that the whole 3.5 weapon sizing thing was not a problem because player characters "just purchase the weapons they want and need anyway."

So yes. A 10th level Rogue can be certain of having a Ring of Blink in the default assumptions that the game was written under. And yes, I see people play the Blink Rogue + Flasks of various stuff a lot. It's an extremely common, simple, and effective character archetype. You will also want a Wand of gravestrike and a Wand of Golemstrike to activate with UMD under standard rules.

In Pathfinder you don't even need the wands because Sneak Attack works on most constructs and undead.

-Frank

That just goes to show the differences between groups. I've DMed and played a lot, and I have never even see someone acquire a ring of blinking. I guess that's why I assumed it was foolish to design a character around having one. Granted, I haven't played or DMed very many high level campaigns, but I still would never consider designing a character around having a certain magic item at a certain level. I like to rely more on my character's abilities than his gear.

The example isn't really of a character designed around his gear, its a halfling "thrower" who figured out a neat trick after picking up a new item. i've had many halfling characters with throwing feats and i've had several players adapt their own abilities to a new techniques based on an item they recieved later.

How does a 15th level cleric keep 1 round/level spells (like righteous might and divine power) and one minute duration spells (like divine favor) on 24/7? I'm not interested in spikes or weapon of the deity, as they aren't SRD spells and therefore inapplicable to a discussion of cleric power in the Pathfinder RPG. Splatbook feats also are generally inapplicable to the discussion--Persistent Spell, for example, has been banned from every campaign I've ever participated in or run.

In a later post in this thread, you also mention a wizard keeping bear's endurance up in every encounter of the day--how's that?

Magic items answer the problem, with time, money, extra XP, and the craft wonderous item feat, you can easily create items that gibe you those spells either on command or all the time. wonderous items covers about 7 or 8 different body slots... wizards or clerics with item creating feats can easily out tank a fighter (even if they slow down their leveling with spending XP on item creation)

From this thread, it's easy to see that there are varying opinions on the fighter's effectiveness, and what can be done to improve it. I personally believe that I could be quite content to play a Pathfinder fighter as well as a 3.5 Fighter and still have plenty of fun. There is no change that will please everyone and still have the fighter remain backwards compatable and relatively easy to play. Right now, I'm playing a cleric and I have played several DMPC clerics. You know what? I'd rather play a fighter over a cleric any day. Nothing is more boring than having to burn most of your spell slots and actions healing others and yourself. If I actually want to fight good enough to be worth anything, I'd have to spend most of the combat and many valuable spell slots buffing myself. I think I would have a lot more fun playing a Pathfinder cleric than a 3.5 cleric, and I'd rather play a fighter (either version) than either of them.

I agree that if the fighter is supposed to be a TANK then he needs to have abilities that let him control the battlefield, he should be able to intercept, and stop opponents from getting past him. at higher levels, when the monsters tend to be smarter and have more spells, what good is a tank when the opponent becomes invisable, flies, or teleports past him? any ideas how to deal with that? i guess thats where the party wizard shines huh? i really like the idea posted earlier about being able to daze and stun thereby controling the enemies actions, most likely through feats and advancing these abilities so at higher levels they can do things like render an opponent helpless or even a save or die type feat. something like that plus the armor and weapon training would deffinatly make the fighter more useful at high levels. also i feel the idea of gaining SR slowly over time would make the fighter more viable as a playable option in later levels. while it would be easy to make a SR feat tree it should be an inherent ability (any fighter that has been caught by a sleep spell, a hold person, or fear (yay, my bad a$$ fighter runs away...) spell and forced to sit out an entire combat and usually having to be dragged around until the spell wears off (usually spent ordering another pizza or the refilling the chip bowl while your fellow gamers roll dice) Either an inherent SR or some abiltiy to save better. oh last but not least the dreaded control spells and having to watch your own character turn on the rest of the party...

you is strange but i know what you mean i guess that makes me strange too hmm strange...

You are good and great oh mighty amber. continue the good work and fight the good fight, oh and continue to kick ass on dragon magazine. and umm your hot and your husband is a lucky man. and umm you have huge never mind are you well fed? :) have a nice day

I only tend to worry about pretty maps for my own characters. like my 21st level Psion who used Genesis and created his own demi plane. Dagalk had a castle created and owned some land, his wizard friend helped mold it to his whims. thats usually what i use maps for at least.

Name of my first D&D character, a fighter gone paladin. i use that name for everything online.

Personally every group i've been in about 4 groups have always had a black person, how every i haven't seen many hispanics. but i think the real minority in D&D is women. like thats a shock to anyone here

The slayers guide to orcs had a few bits in there for about half orcs, and alot of the information is good if you want to know about the other half of the chracters back ground

wizard, bard, rouge, and cleric. i think you need a regdar though. a straight up fighter. the barbarian is nice but it doesn't have that good old soldier feel that you should have when comin home from a war. and they help alot in every fight, not just the first fight like most barbarians.

hey guys looking for other soldiers on or near FOB stryker to game with. i'm pretty flexable lol just hoping maybe we can all relax and have some fun gaming. probably be doing alot of quick adventures just hoping get in touch with me here
Dagalk 95 out

HALF-OGRE MONK my half ogre monk was the son of a female settler, she and her husband tried to settle in ogre raided lands. unfortunatly after a few months they were attacked. his mother was raped and his father killed. his mother ended up escaping and ran to a monastery several hours away. she hoped the child growing inside of her was her husbands. she died in child birth and my character grew up an orphan. he was raised by the monks and taught to control his body, mind, and temper. He specialized in grappling with his reach and strength he was a force to fear. many foes (particualarly wizards) fell to his crushing arms and deadly embrace. any creature with reach and levels of monk is dangerious

Hey, I have the idea of playing an Imp at some point -- take the alternate form of a human (albeit nondescript), and who'd know? And with fast healing, regeneration, DR, and invisibility at will, who would be the best scout around?

Of course, no DM has let me yet ... ;>

I fully agree if you want to ROLEPLAY a monster race then they should gain monster levels first not just take all the goodies. they should come up with a GOOD reason for being where they are, why they haven't already been slain, and have the party roleplay as though they had a real click talking mandable man there with them. encourage him to actually roleplay and not munchkin. personally i had a half ogre (savage species) who was a monk who focused on grappeling very dangerous, but i roleplayed him everytime i met someone new. an orphan left on the steps of a monastery makes for an excellent half breed character storyline.

I want to second everything already said. i'm a gamer out in iraq serving my country and helping make another country better. i just want you guys at Paizo to know that each time i get that magazine it really helps take my mind off whats going on here and get a few hours of R&R and escape even if i don't have a group to play with, i can still enjoy my favorite pastime. and i can't wait to go home and get back with my group and play some more

You can always find stuff online. i think the website is Agyrus or soemthing like that. they have a complete world of D&D D20 material. its not oriental but im not sure if they have options for it its been awhile since i've seen it. i know its in one of the Dungeon magazines for their ultimate D&D table.