Countmein's page

I don't mean to go off topic, but I have a question for Treant. I was just wondering what your next guide was going to be. I really liked the first two, and I can see that you are paying a lot of attention to detail.

After reading through the bard's spell comparison, I am yearning for a Wizard one. Please tell me it is on your to do list :D

If GM_Ekeebe is putting so much work into this then it must be fun!

Just a few questions:
Do we get 2 traits from the web enhancement or not?
What is the starting gold? (average for the class?)

I'm interested.

What time zone are you in? What time and day(s) do you want to play?

Currently working on Lacore, a human illusionist. Quick question, do we pick two traits? and how much gold do we start with(max/avg) ?

Hey Gryphon,

Sounds like fun to me I'm definitely interested in playing. How is player selection going to work?

First come, first serve. Or should we create characters for you to look at?

But we had a thread around here where it seemed most of the posters on the thread didn't see it my way. Most were willing to limit two weapons of speed to only one single extra attack (you pick which weapon).

Blake, I didn't see that thread, but I would rule that you get two attacks from two speed weapons. If your willing to spend the cash then you should get the benefit. I don't think it's imbalanced at all...

rando1000 wrote:

hogarth wrote:

I think the +1 skill point per level is a bit overrated (unless you're trying to qualify for a particular prestige class, maybe), but I know lots of players are skill junkies; for them, humans are perfect. :-)

I think it comes down to the DM as well. My games are pretty skill-critical. If the PCs don't make the necessary skill checks, it's gonna cost them. They can still succeed in the end, usually, but missing a critical magic item because no one makes a perception check, or not being able to open a critical lock to save an important NPC, those situations don't turn out well without a skilled PC.

Even so, I think the difference between having five extra skill points at level 5 and having zero extra skill points at level 5 is smaller than most people think.

True, but I suppose it depends on the class. A fighter with 6 Int will benefit much more than a rogue with high INT.

Countmein wrote:

Woah I was shocked at the Elf Wizard vs Human Wizard thing. Con is the second most important stat for a Wizard. Humans/Half Orcs/Half Elves make much better wizards than elves. I would go as far as to say even Dwarves and Gnomes make better wizards than elves. Since you're going to want at least 14 Con, but preferrably more.

Depends on what you are doing. If you are able to hide behind the fighter or use battlefield control spells, you can somewhat control when you get hit. And if a dire lion is munching on the wizard, 2 extra hp per level isn't going to make him survive.

Thats exactly what I'm doing. Wizards have bad HP already and you can't always hide behind people. You will get hit eventually. 2HP per level is HUGE. It might not let you solo a dire lion, but at least you wont die instantly. Dex for wizards is way over rated. It's great to have if you have a lot of points to buy stats, but if you only have 15 Point buy it should be more or less the same as CON.

The AC bonus from the Dex is negligible. And unless you play a blaster, the majority of your spells wont need touch attacks anyway (Battlefield control spells especially)

Woah I was shocked at the Elf Wizard vs Human Wizard thing. Con is the second most important stat for a Wizard. Humans/Half Orcs/Half Elves make much better wizards than elves. I would go as far as to say even Dwarves and Gnomes make better wizards than elves. Since you're going to want at least 14 Con, but preferrably more.

Here is what I would try to do:

You have three 0 lvl spells. So I would memorize Guidance and Flare x2.

You have two 1 lvl spells. I would memorize Produce Flame and Obscuring Mist.

So here's the scenario. I would wait until the night they come to sacrifice me. They have to get me down so the easiest way to get down is to let them lower me safely. And the easiest way out of the cage is to let them get you out. So, when you see them coming to get you, cast Guidance on yourself and hold on to that floating +1 for one minute. They lower you and get you out. After they pull you out, but before they tie you up (that is important due to the somatic component of the spell) cast Obscuring Mist. That would basically be a surprise round for you. Now initiative takes place and combat begins. Anyone more than 5' away from you can't see you at all in Obscuring Mist and even if they are adjacent to you they have a miss chance since you have concealment.

Hopefully your initiative is high enough to go first in this round.

When it is your turn, if someone is adjacent to you or successfully grapples you cast Produce Flame and start touch attacking him to death. (Use the +1 from Guidance if necessary.) If no one has a hold of you just pick a direction move at half your speed while using Stealth so that no one can hear which direction you are going. Once you get outside the area of Obscuring Mist you can continue to move away each round at half speed under cover of darkness and Stealth. Hopefully you can get away clean but if they happen to spot you at least you are on the ground now and can use your two Flares and Produce Flame spell to fight them off.

::EDIT:: I didn't see if you said what race your captors were but unless they have low-light vision or darkvision you more than likely won't get captured. If they do, it will be trickier but you could still escape. Might even be able to come back for your animal companion.

This seems like the safest and most logical option. Obscuring Mist for the win. Or at least for the run.

Some first level spells are just a bit munckin for continuous use. Like compare boots of expeditious retreat to boots of springing and striding.

The expeditious retreat ones will cost about 4k gold, and give +30ft speed permanently.

The boots of springing and striding give +10ft speed and +5 to jumps. It costs 5.5k gold.

Yea, but by RAW its quite an assumption to make. Dimension Door specifically states the creatures must be touching you.

Do I have to be touching the people I want to bring with. If not, do I measure the distance we travel from my original point, times by 2. Or do I measure from each person's original location to the new spot?

One problem that you might run into when writing guides on this forum is the editing of posts. As far as I know you can only edit your post for a little while after making it. So if you put your handbook up and people want to add to it or you want to modify some things, it might not work...

Haha! Lien Ni-Chang looks a lot like Jack Black!

On a more serious note: Great Job, they all look like a lot of fun!

I expect those who have already read my guides for 3.5 will get the least out of my new Pathfinder guides, since the first ones will likely be simple conversions of the 3.5 material.

Aha, you think it will be that easy? I got kinda stuck with the feats.

Obviously you know the core feats are not as varied, and since you get more feats the selection becomes difficult (for a Conjurer). I got my DM to allow sculpt spell and metamagic school focus, but I'm sure a lot of people only use the core Pathfinder rulebook. Some insight would be helpful.

The first step in any wizard guide I write always needs to reiterate a Wizards job IMO (Buff your party, Debuff your enemy, Control the battlefield), so I can point to it when people ask why I don't give spells that do damage or cause a save or die higher recommendation.

True. My group has a Paladin, Monk, Fighter and me. Yet I constantly need to defend the fact that the only evocation spells I have are some scrolls of flaming sphere.

Anyway, I'm derailing a bit here.

Good Luck

It pretty clearly says cannot be hidden or removed, what it doesn't say is "or what"??? If you cut the rope does it close the pocket dimension? Cause it to collapse? Or is it just impossible to sever?

Because we know some player somewhere is going to try and remove the rope or just cut it off. I guess the easy answer is cut the rope the effect ends.

Yea I'd say that as soon as you try to hide or remove the rope everything gets dumped out of the space, and the spell ends.

Welcome Treantmonk!

I really enjoyed your Wizard's guide over at the wotc forum. Currently I'm playin a conjurer in Curse of the Crimson throne, and it has taken a lot of ideas from your thread.

I'm really excited to see what you come up with. I think once one of your guides is up, a lot of people will see just how useful it can be. If only for a second opinion on the given topic.

I really don't see why people get so worked up about this. Why didnt paizo make a giant d percentile list on the side of feats/spells/skills, so that people can just roll a character up?

One of the most fun parts about PFRPG/DND is building a character.

As far as I know, yes.

Don't think of it as bleeding blood. Think of it more as recurring damage. Like a crack that is tearing open more and more of a skeletons bones or whatever.

Nope. Tanglefoot bag just gives a dex penalty. The target also still has his full dex bonus, there is just a dex penalty that is added afterwords.

Very interested!

Character concept to follow shortly. I'm assuming this is a good aligned party.

Isnt It a bit risky to use a pseudodragon against anybody at level 20?

Anyway, it kind of sucks that you cant cast permanency on somebody else that has tongues. I so wanted a homunculus with tongues. That would be so sweet!

Has there been any word of an official compendium of Prestige Classes to be published specifically for Pathfinder? I know there are already plenty from all the D&D publications and other d20 modules, but after getting the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, I'd definitely like to see some done with this kind of organization and artwork.

I havn't heard of anything yet, but I fully agree with you. The standard prestige classes are all pretty "meh". Some classes have a lot of prestige classes to choose from (rogues!), others have one or none.

Need prestige!

Countmein wrote:

Do you have an idea in mind of how you're going to introduce me to the party?

I would just like to create a fitting background or motivation for being at place X where he joins the group. Then I will also know when the time is getting close for me to start posting...

How much do you know about LoF?

I expect that I'll introduce you when the party meets up with their sponsor in the desert, but before they move into the Monastery. You can have met up in the desert while the party was doing their current bit of exploring....

Nothing. I have the Players Guide and I'm scanning through the game thread. Arn't they already at the monastery?

Do you have an idea in mind of how you're going to introduce me to the party?
I would just like to create a fitting background or motivation for being at place X where he joins the group. Then I will also know when the time is getting close for me to start posting...

Nevynxxx, I'm building my concept around a wizard. He is either going to be an Illusionist, or a Diviner. I'm leaning towards Diviner though.

Just to be clear. 20 Point Buy, PFRPG Final Rules, 2 Traits (rich parents off limits), Average gold. Any other rules or houserules?

Great!

Lemme whip something up!

EDIT: I'll post in this thread

I'm looking at the new bestiary and I'm trying to choose a familiar for my LN Wizard. He is taking Improved Familiar at level 7 or 9. The familiar will not really be used to deliver touch spells, but will be used alot for UMD (wand use).

Currently I'm looking at the following:

1.Dust Mephit (I like Wind Wall and Blur, nice CHA and DR)
2.Air Elemental (Awesome fly speed, initiative and flyby attack, Elemental Traits)
3.Pseudodragon (Nice Cha and DR, 60ft telepathy and blindsense, crazy stealth)

woop!

Also reading the game thread now. If the two characters are taken is it possible for me to join the party at some later stage?

I'm thinking of either a Wizard or a Fighter/Rogue archer type.

To add to that with a hypothetical situation. Lets say we have a PC on 1 HP. He needs to touch something at point Z to complete his quest. The layout is:

==BgBgBg=
PC======Z
==BgBgBg=

Bg is a warrior "Badguy" Illusion (with a sword). The PC has an acrobatics of 100 and 30ft speed. Does he tumble to Z and touch it or does he simply walk to Z and touch it. And if he tumbles, why does he do so?

I think the general consensus is that we don't like that they left the rules so vague. Some of use feel that it enables us to limit the spells only by our imagination, and some feel it has to be written.

It's really hard to judge and I'm thinking it will come down to DM decision. I don't know if i would accept anything short of an explicit answer from WOTC on what they meant, to change my opinion.

Well WOTC implicitly state that a figment can be used in combat.

Also you dont have to poke at something to theaten. A wizard and a rogue can flank, while all the wizard is doing is casting spells while holding a knife. So we replace him with an illusion and now suddenly the guy being flanked completely ignores the wizard and is no longer flanked?

Yet nothing has changed in the mind of the guy being flanked. And remember it is his decision to either be fighting both flankers or ignoring one.

"threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner." and an illusion is neither?

Are you high?

I'm not hand waving anything. The illusion IS a character/creature if not disbelieved.

The Illusion CAN MAKE AN ATTACK. It can also just stand there dodging and weaving waiting to attack.

All this will threaten in the mind of the victim and he will be vulnerable from both sides since he will be turning around and around to see wtf is going on with this guy behind him.

I suppose it depends on if you have a Wizard in your party or not. Remember it is very important to leave your wizard on even levels for the extra BAB if you are primarily a fighter. Level 3 is not wise even if you get your 2nd levels spells on it. You dont dont lose much going to level 4 wizard since you will get that BAB just the same with Fighter.

Facts

Agreed. The topic would be more suited if it were: What the hell can Silent Image accomplish?

It can do alot, if you know what you're doing. And given all kevin's examples it is hard to refute...

Ok Zappo,

I agree with you. What do you think about the silent image standing there.

All he does is "ready an attack". Lets say he has a rapier. He is standing there, Rapier drawn high, pointing down at his foe. He is doing a little "muhammed ali" back and forth in his square, waiting for an opening to appear in his enemy.

Would you ignore it?

And really, RAW business has to be subject to logical interpretation. By the new Pathfinder RAW, a halfling's backpack capacity defies the laws of physics and mathematics, specifically the square-cube law, and not because "a wizard did it" either. You have to subject the RAW to the RAI or else many parts of the game simply make no sense.

And its not like we are being ridiculous here. We are just reading as written. I have yet to see anything that disallows the flanking of an illusion on a failed save.

Countmein wrote:

The illusion DOES THREATEN IN THE MIND OF THE VICTIM. Hence he will fight differently than if he had one target. So he will be flanked.

No need to shout. I was responding to a post that asked for a reference. I provided it. By RAW, an illusion cannot provide flanking. Anything beyond that is up to DM fiat/interpretation.

Illusion is very open ended by RAW. I dont know how you can say by RAW it cannot provide flanking. It doesnt make sense to me that it can not, seeing as to the person being flanked it is a real combatant. And he is the one deciding the flanking status.

An illusory creature created with a figment spell cannot deal any damage. You can send it into combat, however. The figment has an Armor Class of 10 + its size modifier. The rules don't say what a figment's attack bonus is. Your attack bonus is a good default

The illusion DOES THREATEN IN THE MIND OF THE VICTIM. Hence he (the victim) will fight differently than if he had one enemy. So he will be flanked.

I totally think a Silent Image should be able to flank. The "Flankee" though should get a save every round to disbelieve it.

They get bonus feats at 3, 5, 10, 15, 20.

Ok. I assume level 3 one is a typo, or im blind :D

Anyway, my conjurer is now level 5 right. On the one hand I have awesome prestige classes leading to fun stuff all the way to level 20. On the other hand I have standard action teleport at level 8 and something at level 20. The teleport is GREAT, but is it better than the prestige? NO

And the reason I say SOMETHING at level 20 is: Who gets to level 20? Who stays at that level? Level 20 capstone means NOTHING to me...

junk

over this.

If I completely immerse you in a stone box and no one can tell that you are in that box, how do you not look like a box? Are you a box or not? If you have to ask that question, then the illusion can't work.

*YOU* dont look like a box. People see a box appear where a BBEG or PC was. Even if they thought it was you and asked that question it would still work. Your basing all this on a rule that you are misinterpreting.

Figments cannot make something seem to be something else.

This means you cannot modify existing objects/buildings/people. You can however add illusion to the world that covers or adds to the existing objects/people/buildings.

Remember, this is a fantasy RPG. Turning someone into a box is possible.

Getting warmer...

If you make a box with holes that shows that you are clearly inside of a box -- and not making you into an actual box -- then that could work.

NONONO!COLD!

If i try to make a disguise for a person with silent image it would work. But it would look ridiculous and would be out of sync with him and be immediately recognized as an illusion.

A stationairy box suspended in the air is just that. The guy can 5-foot step out of it.

Are you also including prestige classes?

I'm specifically thinking about Wizards. They have hundreds of thousands of dead levels. Filling that up with a prestige class is a no-brainer unless you need a powerful familiar. And then there are prestige classes out there that advance that aswell.

This is if you DM will convert some 3.5 prestige classes. Loremasters are better than nothing though

:D

The text under Illusion (Figment) in the Magic section says:

PRD wrote:

Figments cannot make something seem to be something else.

If you're in a stone box, you've made someone look like something else; in this case, a stone box. The spell should fail because figments can't do that. A barred cage is more possible. . .

If you're in a figment of a VW Polo, in most cases the figment would cause immediate disbelief for everyone watching it. For instance, the figment cannot support weight (also in the text), so you couldn't sit in the car. Anyone observing a person standing through a figment would immediately disbelieve. You could potentially float/fly through the car with the windows down (since hitting the windows would also immediately cause disbelief. . . unless it's a major image and someone is concentrating to make the window react to being hit and breaking).

A wall just blocks line of sight -- it doesn't actually make something seem to be something else.

The car was not meant to be used as a silent image but anyway. Try a hut then?

I know what a figment is, and I know what a glamer spell is. Lets say you create a wooden box around a BBEG. You are not making him look like something else. I dont know why you keep saying that?

The reason they put that line in there was so that people couldnt go: I use silent image to disguise my fighter as the king and he walks through the gate...

Back to the box around the BBEG: Why would the party get a saving throw on a box that just appears? They wont, its intended to be a box and it looks exactly like one.

Finally: The target is the only person that we care about really, and he certainly wont get a saving throw against a box that appears around him. (again i fail to see where we are changing his appearance?). He does get a throw if he prods at it (standard action) or if he knows you use illusions etc.

Nowhere here are we attempting to make something seem like something else. Silent Image "Overlays" onto the real world. So we cant make a hole appear, but we can close a hole up. Boxes and Walls are fair game.

All about illusions, goes into a little depth and gives examples

What happened to armor spikes? Wouldnt that work well with a bow to threaten. That is, if you have a problem with the gauntlets...

But "boxing" an enemy (completely entrapping them inside a figment) isn't going to work because it makes a creature look like something else.

What do you mean it makes the creature look like something else? where are you getting this from? does my car make me look like something else? (its a VW Polo if you have to know :)

I really dont see the difference between walls and boxes. As long as the caster knows that there will be light inside the box if there is light outside. And also that if its a 6 sided box around his upper body and head, the BBEG will see that his body can move through it and get a save immediately.

Countmein wrote:

Trip Arrow: This squat arrow has a large, bulbous,

metal tip that expands and flattens in flight. If the arrow
hits, it initiates a trip attack against the target (DC = 15);
the target falls prone if it fails its check, but if it succeed
it cannot attempt to trip you in return

Does this arrow deal normal damage?

(Two of the other arrows specifically say that they deal no damage and others have specific damages)

What is the CMB for this trip check if converted to final?

It's been awhile since I created it but as I recall the intent was for it not to do any damage except the trip. CMB didn't exist back then so I'm not sure. I suppose it's easiest to use the shooters. But that's just off the top of my head. Likely there's a good reason to avoid doing that :)

Cool. Thanks for reply. Who better than the creator!

I suppose the shooter's CMB would be best. The ranged trip thing does seem a bit strong though, so the defender should get a bonus somehow.

Trip Arrow: This squat arrow has a large, bulbous,
metal tip that expands and flattens in flight. If the arrow
hits, it initiates a trip attack against the target (DC = 15);
the target falls prone if it fails its check, but if it succeed
it cannot attempt to trip you in return

Does this arrow deal normal damage?

(Two of the other arrows specifically say that they deal no damage and others have specific damages)

What is the CMB for this trip check if converted to final?