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Christopher Rowe's page

Contributor. RPG Superstar 8 Season Star Voter. * Pathfinder Society GM. 938 posts (1,588 including aliases). 2 reviews. 1 list. 2 wishlists. 13 Organized Play characters. 8 aliases.



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Good on you.

Liberty's Edge

At some point I purchased the Core Rulebook, the first two Alien Archives, and Pact Worlds, but I am just now getting really interested in the game and plan to pick up all of the available books. There are thirteen right now, correct?

It seems like it would make the most sense to read them in order of publication so as to get a feel for the growth of the game and changes therein. But it's proving surprisingly tricksy for me to track down what that order is!

Help a new player out?


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My apologies to the ghost of Herman Melville. Your thoughts and opinions about crafting scrolls are humbly solicited. Unless, of course, as the man said (over and over!), you “prefer not to.”

An astonishing amount of overthinking about Crafting scrolls:

I’ve been trying to understand what’s involved in scribing a scroll in Pathfinder Second Edition according to the rules and information found in the Second Edition Core Rulebook.

This post codifies what I believe to be all the information provided in that book about the subject at hand. It is structured as a set of questions, the rules I believe address that question, and my suppositions or tentative answers to those questions. Following, I sum up with my opinions about scribing scrolls.

Please note: Because of the complexity of both my suppositions and my general “findings,” it is my hope that I am wrong about some or all of this—even to the point to hoping that one or more responders simply say something along the lines of, “You’ve neglected to take into account the third paragraph on page 681 of the CRB,” or something along those lines. If that’s true, please be gentle![b][I]

All page numbers are references to the [I]Core Rulebook.

So, here we go.

[b]Question #1: Do the rules and other information suggest that the scribing of scrolls is expected to be a common and relatively simple downtown activity?

Supporting rules and information: In the general description of the Sorcerer class at p. 191, the first sentence in the “In downtime…” paragraph reads: “You craft magic items or scribe scrolls.” In the general description of the Wizard class at p. 203, in the “While exploring…” paragraph says that wizards “probably have a scroll” to overcome obstacles. Similar to the Sorcerer entry, the “In downtime…” paragraph for Wizards reads: “You learn new spells, craft magic items, or scribe scrolls for your party…” Somewhat less germane, but suggestive; the “Crafting a Scroll” information at p. 565 begins with this sentence: “The process to Craft a scroll is much like that to Craft any other magic item.”

Supposition: The scribing (or “Crafting”) of scrolls is meant to be a relatively straightforward and common activity.

Question #2: Where and what are the rules for Crafting a scroll?

Supporting rules and information: Crafting (skill) at pp. 243-245 in Chapter 4, Skills; Magical Crafting at p. 263in Chapter 5, Feats; Magical Items and Formulas at p. 293 in Chapter 6, Equipment; Level-Based DCs at p. 503 in Chapter 10, Game Mastering; Craft at p. 504 (Chapter 10); Craft Requirements at p.535 in Chapter 11, Crafting and Treasure; Crafting a Scroll and Sample Scrolls at p. 565 (Chapter 11); and possibly other relevant rules I’ve missed.

Supposition: The complete rules for Crafting a scroll are not in one place, but are spread across at least five chapters throughout the Core Rulebook. This lends lack of clarity.

Question #3: Is a formula necessary for the Crafting of a scroll, as it is for all other crafted items, including magic items? How much does such a formula cost?

Supporting rules and information: Magical items, including scrolls, require a formula for their Crafting, just as mundane items do according to the information under Items With Multiple Types at pp. 293-294, which uses bags of holding as the example for required formulas.

Supposition: A formula is required to Craft a scroll, and the price for the formula is to be found by comparing Table 6-13: Formulas (p. 293) and Table 11-3: Scroll Statistics (p. 565). For example, the formula for a 3rd level spell compares its level (5, per Table 11-3) and the price for a formula of a particular level per Table 6-13, yielding a price of 8 gp. Note well, the price of the formula necessary for Crafting a spell scroll is independent of and different from the price for the actual scroll, if such a scroll was even found available for sale. In this example, for instance, the price of purchasing a scroll of a level 3 spell is 30 gp, compared to the 8 gp for the formula for the same scroll.

Despite the example above using a 3rd level spell, the rules support throughout the CRB only extends to 1st level spells, since they are the only ones listed as common items in the Equipment chapter. The price for a 1st level spell’s formula is 1 gp (p. 293).

Question #4: What is the specific process for Crafting a scroll and what are the material and monetary requirements to do so?

Supporting rules and information: The most basic rules for Crafting an item are covered in four bullet points at page 244. In sum, the requirements listed, understood through the prism of scroll scribing, are these: (1) the item must be the Crafters item or lower (levels of scrolls are in Table 11-3 Scroll Statistics at p. 565); (2) the Crafter must possess the formula for the item (formulas for common first level scrolls are, by implication, available in the same manner as any other common item in Chapter 6—see Table 6-12: Magical Gear and the Formulas information with supporting table at p. 293; (3) the Crafter must have an appropriate set of tools and a space to work—the 1 gp Writing Set described at p. 292 specifically mentions scroll scribing; presumably any place where writing and casting can be safely done will do as a scribing “workshop,” and: (4) raw materials worth at least half the item’s price (though this is a little misleading). Prices for scrolls of all levels are to be found in Table 11-3 at p. 565.

Crafting an item takes 4 days, at which point a Crafting check is made against a DC determined by the GM (note that this is a little loosey-goosey for purposes of organized play). Guidance for setting DCs is at pp. 503-504 in the Game Mastering chapter, with information specifically covering Crafting to be found on p. 504. As consumables, scrolls can be scribed in batches of four with one Crafting check to determine success for all four. Four castings of the spell and whatever constitutes the material costs (special inks and papers, presumably, plus any specific costs for components listed in the given spell’s description).

There are additional rules on how much needs to be spent of the 4 gp for a common first level scroll that mostly adjust the price down (or takes the full amount to finish the crafting immediately).

Supposition: The rules for crafting are much better suited for common items and non-consumable magic items than they are for scrolls (and presumably potions and other magic consumables).

Question #5: Where and what are the rules for Crafting a scroll of at level higher than 1st?

Supporting rules and information/supposition; The rules remain the same except for progressions in Crafting costs and difficulty classes. However, there is no information about how to gain access to formulas for higher level scrolls anywhere I can find in the CRB.

Question #6: What is the minimum character level at which a character may Craft a scroll?

Supporting rules and information: The crafting rules at page 244 state that characters need “the Magical Crafting skill feat to to create magic items…” Magical Crafting is a 2nd level skill feat found at page 263. It has the General and Skill traits (the associated skill is Crafting). The feat has a prerequisite of expert level training in Crafting. In addition to enabling the Crafting of magic items (like scrolls) and a character taking the feat gains four formulas for common magic items of 2nd level or lower. The key thing here is that a character must be expert at Crafting. As near as I have been able to determine, there is no way for any spellcaster to meet the prerequisite before 3rd level. Assuming a spellcasting character takes training in Crafting at 1st level during character creation, or at 2nd level when when they receive their first Skill feat, the earliest that they can achieve expert level with the skill increase at 3rd level.

Supposition: The minimum level a spellcasting character can Craft a scroll (or any other magic item) is 3rd level.

Final Thoughts

I believe that the rules for scribing/Crafting spells are too diffuse and insufficiently clear.

In the case of Wizards, I believe having a given spell in one’s spell book should be considered as having that spell’s formula.

In the case of Sorcerers, I believe that having a given spell in one’s repertoire should be considered as having that spell’s formula.

I don’t know enough about the other spell casting classes to have an informed opinion.

I believe there should be rules support by which 1st level characters capable of the Cast a Spell activity may scribe/Craft scrolls.

My beliefs don’t count for much, and I will of course follow the rules as I understand them, even if they do seem to be kind of unwieldy.


For the purposes of using the Cast a Spell activity to cast a spell from a scroll, the rules dictate that the spell must be on the caster’s list.

What exactly constitutes “your list” in this context, and where are the relevant and clarifying rules?

Does the “your list” language mean any wizard can cast any spell from a scroll, so long as it’s on the arcane spell lists? Surely not, as that would throw spell levels right out the window.

Or are there further limitations? As I imagine there’d have to be.

Does “your list” only include spells you would be able to cast yourself (so, only first level spells for my exemplary wizard)? Is it even more granular than that—you can only cast spells in your “repertoire” (a word I find has somewhat slippery usage in the CRB), which might mean first level sorcerers could only cast a couple of spells from scrolls. Obviously that doesn’t seem right.

I also have questions about exactly how scribing scrolls works, the apparent tradition-neutral nature of spells scribed on scrolls, and whether or not you can learn spells from found scrolls (for wizard's that would be transcribing to spell books, I guess) but I’ll save all those for another post. (I think I just about have a handle on scribing/Crafting, though I'm hoping I'm wrong about a couple of things).

Cheers!

1/5

Hello! It's been a minute! I just recently picked up the Pathfinder Second Edition line of products (well, the rulebooks and the Age of Lost Omens line) and have been merrily making my way through them. I used to be a quite active organized play participant and I'm looking to get back into that (online, of course, in these days), but find myself a bit bamboozled about a couple of things.

I was going to ask about finding games, because the Events tab in the Organized Play dropdown doesn't bring much up. But then I remembered Warhorn, and that seems to be the place to check. Now I just need to master D20 and Discord, I guess.

I'm still a bit confused about getting started from a character generation and campaign tracking point of view, however. Is there an actual Guide to Organized Play available as a pdf? I've followed links here to a few webpages that I suppose all add up together to what I need, but it seems like I'm probably missing something somewhere.

Anyway, I'm excited to be back, and look forward to exploring, reporting, and cooperating!

1/5 Contributor

I have turned this house upside down and cannot locate the folder for Mister Rook, my 3rd level tengu brawler, and wonder what I can do about it.

I keep careful and complete records, but that doesn't help me when a whole folder goes missing. I think it might have gotten tossed in a cleaning frenzy.

Here's what I have.

(1) An up to date character sheet in Hero Lab.
(2) His online records here, which show all the games he's played and the one GM credit session I applied to him.
(3) Actual chronicle sheets for his first two adventures, as they were played online and I was able to find them in my email.

What I'm missing:

(1) Physical character sheet with attendant notes of purchases, etc.
(2) Inventory Tracking Sheet.
(3) The chronicle sheets for his runs through #7-01 and #5-01 and the GM credit chronicle sheet I applied for a running of #7-10.
(4) All my session notes of who I played with and what happened and everything (this last one especially bums me out).

So, what can I do? Is he gone for good or can I print out blank copies of the three missing chronicle sheets and try to recreate his career so that it all adds up to what's on his current electronic character sheet? Obviously I'm available to sign the GM credit one, and one of the other GMs lives one town over and I see him once in awhile and I don't think he'd have any problem signing a replacement sheet, but the GM who ran #5-01 has left the scene.

Anyway, any advice is appreciated. I'd kind of like to play this character this coming Tuesday night if I can find a legal way to do it.

1/5 Contributor

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This morning, my dear wife, who has played, I think, four Society games, revealed that she believes the campaign's primary antagonists to be...dockworkers.

"It's all about sneaking into warehouses down by the docks or onto tied up ships. Fighting on wharves and stuff. It's like Season Two of The Wire but in medieval times."

Now I'm trying to remember which particular scenarios she's played.

Dark Archive

Now that´s what i call a great beginning for a novel!
Not only has Richard A. Knaak managed to write a very likable and interesting character and pick the curiosity of the reader on how the story will continue, he obviously also took the time to familiarize himself with the Inner Sea setting, in particular Nerosyan but also dropped little things like the local name for Tieflings and the name of a cheap alcoholic beverage, which makes the setting seem realistically taking place on Golarion - something a few other Pathfinder Tales writers didn´t manage.

This is an instant buy for me.

Grand Lodge

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I’m looking for ways to increase the land speed of a human 6th level cleric of Desna with the travel domain. She already has the untyped bonus from the travel domain and routinely casts longstrider gaining her a +10 enhancement bonus to speed, and she took the fleet feat once. So usually during play her base speed is 55’ (base 30’ + untyped 10’ bonus from travel domain + untyped 5’ bonus from fleet feet + 10’ enhancement bonus from longstrider).

Class “dips” into monk and barbarian aren’t really an option for story reasons for this character, so those means are out. I’d hate to use another feat slot for the stackable fleet bonus (though at this point it’s the only thing I’ve found). And every magic item I’ve found that increases land speed provides an enhancement bonus and so doesn’t stack with her longstrider casting.

Is there something I’m missing? I was hoping maybe there’d be an ioun stone or something that provided a non-enhancement bonus to speed, but if there is, I’m not finding it.

Completely changing tacks, as a sidelight on my research into this I decided to figure out what the fastest creatures in the game are, for values of “fastest” that involve tactical speeds measured in feet and ignoring things like teleportation effects and non-standard movement modes like earthglide. Confining my checks to the five Bestiaries, it seems like they are:

Land speed: the cerynitis from Bestiary 5 with a speed of 180’, beating out the second place quickling by full 60’.
Fly speed: the anemos from Bestiary 5 with a fly speed of 480’ (the fastest creature in the game as near as I can tell).
Swim speed: the mogaru kaiju from Bestiary 4 with a swim speed of 100’ (there are various swimming creatures with “jet” speeds that beat this, though).
Climb speed: the titan centipede from Bestiary 2 with a climb speed of 60’. Note that this creature also has a land speed of 60’ so it’s crazy fast.
Burrow speed: here we have a tie between the shaitan genie in the first Bestiary and the glaistig in Bestiary 5, both with burrow speeds of 60', but note that the glaistig also has land and climb speeds of 60’!

And finally, a highly honorable mention must be given to the penguin, found with other familiars in Bestiary 5, for having the fastest—and as far as I was able to find, also the slowest—“toboggan” speed in the game at 30’.

1/5 Contributor

Congratulations to the new 5-stars, and thanks to all who volunteer.

1/5 Contributor

What follows can probably be boiled down to this:

Does the language in the fourth bullet point under "Spellcasting Services" at p. 20 of the current Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide apply to those spells listed as available as "awards" on the Prestige Point table on the following page?

By which I mean, are the spells such as neutralize poison listed on the table on p. 21 assumed to be cast at whatever caster level is necessary for the spell to be successful?

I'm running "The Sanos Abduction" next week and I anticipate that one or more of the PCs will be poisoned by the pukwudgie at the end of the scenario. The scenario helpfully provides three potions of neutralize poison (I'm judging them to have been crafted at caster level 6, though the scenario does not explicitly call that out--the druid who provides them to the PCs is 6th level and the Chronicle Sheet lists them at such a level), but the imbibers will still need to roll a 12 or better for those to be efficacious at the higher tier, and that's assuming they only get dosed once and those stacking poison effects don't kick in.

So I'd like to be prepared for a scenario where a PC will want to spend Prestige Points on a casting of neutralize poison. I might be overthinking this, but this seems to be a pretty complex ruling. The site of the likely poisoning is far, far from any settlements, so that "add 5 to this cost" footnote seems germane, not to mention the fact that my discretion at having a "wandering mystic" (to used the Guide's language at p. 20) available for the casting will come in to play.

It seems like there used to be language in the Guide about spellcasting services purchased with Prestige always being at minimum caster level, but if that's still in there these days, I can't find it.

So I have all these questions. I anticipate the need for a wandering 17th level caster with neutralize poison on her spell list being out for a stroll in the Sanos Forest this coming Tuesday night and I'm sure the answer to how to adjudicate that is in the Guide, but I'm just not finding it.

1/5 Contributor

Hi all. I'm running a Tier 3-7 scenario next week and hope to attract some new players, so I've just been going through the fourth level pregenerated characters. Since there are 38 of them (!), I thought I'd create a summary sheet for folks to read instead of handing them a stack of paper fifty-odd sheets thick.

Basically, I'll present the 38 classes in alphabetical order with the summary description from the Classes chapter of the book they're from, the name, gender, and race of the pregen, and the brief personal description of the character from their sheet. So the first three entries would look like this, for example:

Alchemist: The alchemist is the master of alchemy, using extracts to grant him great power, mutagens to enhance his form, and bombs to destroy his enemies. The pregenerated alchemist is Damiel, a male elf. Obsessed with transmutation, Damiel began to use his alchemical creations on himself. Within him now lurks a mad and capricious second self.

Arcanist: Blending the power of the sorcerer with the versatility of the wizard, the arcanist draws upon a reservoir of power to bend magic to her will. The pregenerated arcanist is Enora, a female halfling. Brainy and cheerful, Enora is relentless in her pursuit of forbidden arcane knowledge, and possesses enough lost cultures’ secrets to make her a force to be reckoned with.

Barbarian: The barbarian is a brutal berserker from beyond the edge of civilized lands. The pregenerated barbarian is Amiri, a female human. Competitive and brash, Amiri is imposing in armor covered in small trophies from her kills. She speaks little of her past, and only her giant-sized sword gives any hint about her history.

But wait, that's not all. I want to add one sentence at the end of each description that reads "[Character classes] are X to play," where [Character classes] will the plural form of the class in question and X will stand for one of these three options:

Easy: recommended for players new to RPGs.

Moderately complex: Some experience with RPGs recommended.

Quite complex: A high degree of familiarity with the Pathfinder rules is recommended.

I don't want to get any more complicated than three options on that bit, and, as you can probably guess, the reason I'm bringing this to you good people is to solicit advice and input on which of those three categories of complexity each of the 38 classes fall into. Frankly, I think I'm either overestimating or underestimating the complexity of pretty much all of them, because of the 38, I only have four listed as "easy" in my rough draft (cleric, fighter, rogue, and sorcerer) and seven as "quite complex" (the six Occult Adventures classes and the summoner), with the remaining 27 all listed as "moderately complex."

Thoughts?

Contributor

I found a couple of old threads that come close to asking this question directly, but none that outright answer it, so I'm hoping there's been some update or FAQ I haven't been able to find, or that someone can point out something I'm missing.

Contextual rules the first: "Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally." --Core Rulebook, p. 221

Contextual rules the second: "Constant spell-like abilities function at all times but can be dispelled. A creature can reactivate a constant spell-like ability as a swift action." --Bestiary, p. 6

Question: Can a creature willfully suppress one of its own constant spell-like abilities?

I will outline the situation that cause me to be wondering this in spoilered text below. The spoilers are for PFS Scenario #7-09 The Blakros Connection.

Example Situation:
In this PFS scenario, one encounter takes place in a hazardous area described as a "primal magic zone." The zone has a number of different (mostly negative) effects, triggered by magic as described in this quoted text:

"Whenever a creature activates a magic item, casts a spell, or uses a spell-like ability in the sealed wing, there is a 50% chance that the spell effect is replaced by a special primal magical effect."

Now, one of the creatures which might be present in the hazardous area is a Sprite Swarm from Fey Revisited. The way the scenario is written, the swarm has been present in the area for some time. Sprite Swarms have two constant spell-like abilities, detect evil and detect good.

I am positive that the designer of the scenario did not intend for the swarm to have to have been assumed to have made percentage chance rolls, made saves, and dealt with various negative effects every six seconds (maybe even twice every six seconds) since it has been present in the zone. Actually, I don't even see a way for the swarm to statistically still be alive at the point in the timeline the encounter takes place if that were true. And when I run this scenario, I will almost certainly run it as if those two spell-like abilities do not provoke the effects of the zone.

However, I'm still curious about my question outside this spoiler text, above. Speaking purely technically, should those two abilities be considered to be being "used" within the zone, since they are constant?

Thanks in advance for any insights or directions to rulings.

Contributor

This just automagically downloaded to my iPad and I continue to greatly dig this series. Good work from Erik Mona and Sean Izaakse this time around. I especially like the characterization of a certain evil halfling mesmerist, as evinced in this panel.

Contributor

I'm thinking about running, online at D20/Google Hangouts or in person, what I'm calling a "divine" game with Pathfinder/Golarion as a setting and cosmos. Basically my idea is this: four players, 15 point buy, limited to good alignments and the rules that follow.

(1) All characters must worship the same good deity.
(2) All characters must have a good alignment and an alignment within one step of the shared deity.
(3) All characters must be of one of the Core Rulebook races.
(4) All characters must be of a "divinely-inspired" class/archetype combination, which is to say: cavalier (Order of the Star), cleric, inquisitor, oracle, paladin, rogue (sanctified archetype), warpriest, etc.

My thoughts are to eventually run an AP within these strictures, but to first test the waters (and the system) by running a level 1 to 5 or 6 series of adventures. I'm thinking of having the party be either officially attached to a church (if the deity they choose has an organized church) or else be the agents of a powerful follower of the chosen deity. I guess I'm more or less substituting a deity for the Pathfinder Society as an organizing principle for an adventuring party, if you want to look at it that way.

What I'm hoping you good people will help me puzzle out is answers to theses questions.

(1) What other class/archetype combinations fit this campaign theme?
(2) What specific good deities would you encourage parties to look at closely when they choose their patron?
(3) What Pathfinder modules would you choose for a six-level test run? (Right now I'm looking at The Dragon's Demand.)
(4) If and when it comes to it, what AP do you think such a party would best thrive in?
(5) What general game circumstances do you think will be most challenging for such a party (combat, social situations, traps, etc.) and what allowances do you think I should make to overcome such shortcomings?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Christopher

Contributor

"I am human, and nothing of that which is human is alien to me." —Terrence, Heauton Timorumenos

"Hell is other people." —Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit

I thought I'd write a post in defense of humanity.

By which I mean, I thought I'd tell you good people why I, personally, think that playing human characters—or designing game supplements which seem to elevate or center humanity—is something that is a fine, creative, interesting, and thoughtful thing to do.

I've noticed quite a few posts lately that raise a number of questions, criticisms, and even pleas, which, by way of asking for "more" (game elements) for one fantasy race or another take the time, en passant, to denigrate the choice that some players make in playing humans, or the choice the designers of the Pathfinder game and the world of Golarion have made in giving humanity pride of center place.

To be sure and clear, playing or designing for any other race can be a fine, creative, interesting, and thoughtful thing to do.

But I'm moved to write this because of the strain of thought that seems to suggest that playing or designing for humans is somehow "uncool," somehow boring or unchallenging or otherwise lesser.

I don't seek to win a point but to explain a choice. Humans are what all of us are. They are, paradoxically, what we know best and least. They satisfy us and mystify us in equal measure. They are, to paraphrase, the proper study of humankind. Which is to say that if (if!) one of the things we do when we play these games is explore and learn more about ourselves, then playing humans—mysterious, contradictory, wise, faltering, flawed, complex, and multifarious humans—is a fine and legitimate choice.

"Going against men, I have heard at times a deep harmony
thrumming in the mixture, and when they ask me what
I say I don't know. It is not the only or the easiest
way to come to the truth. It is one way." —Wendell Berry, "The Contrariness of the Mad Farmer"

Contributor

Hi there.

I'm trying to order subscriptions to the AP line (starting with #98), the Campaign Setting line (starting with the Occult Bestiary), and the Player Companion line (starting with Dirty Tricks), as well as a couple of PFS scenarios. But every time I get to step 5, confirm your order, the step 4 box (subscription options) turns red and the system won't let me click the "place your order" button (it's not active, just the "continue shopping button"). Have I filled out something wrong?

Cheers,

Christopher

Contributor

Hey-o,

Just out of curiosity, how long does it typically take for an order to ship once it's been placed? I ordered some stuff a few days ago (on Saturday the 15th) and the order is still listed as pending. I imagine that there might be a longer than usual lag going on as folks take advantage, as I was doing, of the end of summer sale, and I'm actually not in any particular hurry for the purchased items (so long as I get my t-shirt before DragonCon, gotta have that free reroll! ;) ) but, as I said up top, I'm just curious about how long I'll be waiting before my items ship. Mildly curious at that, so no hurry on answering.

Cheers,

Christopher

Contributor

I'm having some trouble understanding the magic circle effects associated with altars as described at p. 246 of Inner Sea Gods.

I believe the following is true. An altar of a chaotic evil god is permanently at the center of a magic circle against good and of a magic circle against law. (Note that these circles are described as effects and not as spells which may or may not be important to my question below.)

Now, to the best of my knowledge, what that means is that the altar of my for-example chaotic evil deity is at the center of two 10 foot radius permanent magic circle spells as described above.

Here is my question.

Given that (a) the area of any magic circle is a "10-ft.-radius emanation from touched creature" and that (b) all creatures with the area of effect gain the effects of, in this case, protection from good and protection from law spells, which, themselves, have targets of "creature touched," who exactly benefits from the effects of the circles?

To clarify, nobody has been "touched," right? Do any and all creatures within that 10 foot radius enjoy the benefits ("effects") of the, in this case, the two protection spells?

1/5 Contributor

Hey all,

I'm going to GenCon, yay! And I even get to play a PFS game, double-yay!

Now, I haven't played or been paying close attention to goings on in these parts for awhile, which is not to my credit, and so I beg your forgiveness for this question.

I dug out my 7th level character (Bard 3/Ranger 3/Pathfinder Delver 1) to dust him off and get him ready for playing on Sunday, and see that I have a scrawled note on my last Chronicle Sheet (for an adventure where I was forced to spend a silly amount of gold on an adamantine greatsword because we were fighting some critters in the museum that nobody could touch). Anyway, said scrawled note reads, "before next game, sell +1 greatsword, enchant adamantine greatsword to +1."

But now that I'm down to doing the math and so on to hand over my shopping list to the GM ante-game, I'm worried that that might not actually be possible. Is it? And if so, how much will it cost?

If anybody is attending any of the writing track events, come up and say hi if you see me! I have five panels, but otherwise will be hanging out out front when I'm not dropping too much cash in the dealer's room.

Cheers,

Christopher

Contributor

I hope you good people can help me with some suggestions and advice for this character. I've just leveled him up to 2nd level, so for good or ill what's in the spoilered text below is set. My system mastery is very low compared to most here, but I want him to be a highly effective contributor to the Pathfinder Society groups he adventures with, thus this request for aid.

Generally speaking, I feel like I need to work on feat choices (both via Martial Flexibility and through advancement), tactics (which are mainly a matter of Martial Flexibility feat choices as far as I can tell) and equipment.

So far, his preferred tactics have been to lead with using Martial Flexibility to adopt the Belier's Bite feat, punching (and hopefully getting some bleed damage started), then grappling. If he maintains his grapple, he either does damage or pins, providing the other party members an easy target. (I should say also that I dream of the day where circumstances allow him to adopt the Equipment Trick Rope feat and hogtie a grappled opponent, but that's a long shot). Now that he's made second level, he'll probably do much the same except that he'll get to use Brawler's Flurry for two punches (and maybe adopt Jabbing Style for some extra damage? Can you actually use a move action to adopt a feat and also use Brawler's Flurry in the same turn?)

My play methodology has been to keep a printout of the sixty-odd combat feats he's eligible to adopt at hand (some number of which are teamwork feats and so unlikely to come into play in PFS) and try to be reactive and flexible. Hopefully with time I'll internalize a lot of that information.

Problem areas I see for him are his armor class and his Will save. I'm tempted to take Iron Will as his third level feat and to up his Dexterity from 15 to 16 when he makes fourth level, but hopefully y'all can tell me whether those are silly ideas or not.

Equipment, I don't know. He doesn't seem to use as much money as my other PFS characters what with his light armor and minimum weapon use. I dropped 50 gold on a grenade that I threw in the Emerald Spire today to little effect but to much hilarity. That was kind of fun, but I suspect I should be saving up for some kind of martial arts whiz bang magic item that I'm not familiar with.

So there's that. His vital stats are in the spoilered text below, and I thank any and all of you in advance for your advice.

Mister Rook's statblock:
Mister Rook
Male tengu brawler 2
CN Medium humanoid (tengu)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
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AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 22 (2d10+6)
Fort +5, [b]Ref +5, Will +0
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee armor spikes +5 (1d6+3) or
armor spikes flurry of blows +3/+3 (1d6+3) or
handaxe +5 (1d6+3/×3) or
morningstar +5 (1d8+3) or
unarmed strike +6 (1d6+3) or
unarmed strike flurry of blows +4/+4 (1d6+3) or
bite +0 (1d3+1), 2 claws +0 (1d3+1)
Ranged sling +4 (1d4+3)
Special Attacks brawler's flurry, martial flexibility 4/day
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +5 (+7 grapple); CMD 17 (19 vs. grapple)
Feats Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits bullied (+1 trait bonus to AoO w/unarmed strikes), observant (+1 to Perception & class skill)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Climb +6, Perception +8, Stealth +3, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Stealth
Languages Common, Tengu
SQ brawler's cunning, martial training
Combat Gear potion of enlarge person, wand of cure light wounds, alchemical grease, alchemist's fire, caltrops, cold iron; Other Gear armor spikes studded leather, handaxe, morningstar, sling, sling bullets (18), wayfinder, backpack, bandolier, belt pouch, chalk, earplugs, flint and steel, folding pole, hip flask, magnet, silk rope (50 ft.), smoked goggles, 1,578 gp, 5 sp, 6 cp
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Special Abilities
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Brawler's Flurry +0/+0 (Ex) Can make full attack & gain two-wep fighting, but only with unarmed strike, close, or monk wep.
Bullied +1 to hit with unarmed AoEs.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Martial Flexibility (move action, 4/day) (Ex) As a Move action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.

1/5 Contributor

Hello. I haven't yet played using Roll20 and Google Hangouts but my work and wife circumstances (as well as the relative paucity of local opportunities to play) have caused me to explore those options. I'm looking for folks who can play with some regularity on Thursdays and/or Fridays somewhere in the block of time from 10 AM to 5 PM Eastern USA time.

Hopefully we could rotate GMing duties, though I can't offer to do that until I've played a few times and familiarized myself with the software at Roll20.

I've played about 30 PFS scenarios, almost evenly split between GMing and playing. Right now I have a Guide Ranger 3/Archivist Bard 3 (2 XP away from his 1st Pathfinder Delver level), a Cleric of Desna 4 (1 XP away from her 5th Cleric level), and of course, any number of first level characters.

I may also be able to play some weekday evenings (Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays), but during the day on Thursday and Friday is my best availability.

Thanks.

Contributor

Has anyone put together a master index of all the special abilities/properties that can be added to weapons and armor, utilizing all official Paizo sources? You can kind of fake one up using the PRD magic items index, but only for the Core Rulebook and Advanced Player's Guide and it seems to me like there are more in other sources (like Ultimate Equipment, at least, I think).

Contributor

Subject line says it all, but here are the details.

The Core Rulebook contains rules at page 100 under the Knowledge skill description and in an entry on a table at page 101 which cover using Knowledge to "identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities." Here's the complete text of the rules and the final entry of Table 4-6: Knowledge Skill DCs.

Core Rulebook p. 100 wrote:
You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster’s CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster’s CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. Many of the Knowledge skills have specific uses as noted on Table 4–6.
Table 4-6: Knowledge Skill DCs, CRB p. 101 wrote:

Task: Identify a monster's abilities and weaknesses

Knowledge Skill: Varies
DC: 10 + monster's CR

Note the use of the word "monster," which appears with variants six times in the rules paragraph and once in the table entry.

Now, turn to the quite specific definition of the word "monster" at page 12 of the Core Rulebook.

Core Rulebook p. 12 wrote:
Monster: Monsters are creatures that rely on racial Hit Dice instead of class levels for their powers and abilities (although some possess class levels as well). PCs are usually not monsters.

So, it seems to me quite obvious that Knowledge checks to identify powers and vulnerabilities and foes are therefore only possible for monsters, and not for opponents who do not fit the definition of that term. So, no Knowledge check in the case of a half-orc illusionist, for example, or a human barbarian, or an elven witch.

However…

It has been pointed out to me that one of the two creatures specifically used as examples in the rules text is a goblin. And here's where things get confusing. Because this is text from the goblin's entry in the first Bestiary.

Bestiary p. 156 wrote:
Goblins are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice.

And, even more frustratingly, here is a sentence from Appendix 4 of the Bestiary, Monsters as PCs.

Bestiary p. 313 wrote:
There are a number of monsters in this book that do not possess racial Hit Dice.

So, there's what we have to work with. My impulse at this point is to only allow Knowledge checks for creatures which have a Bestiary entry and call it a day, but I wish the rules were a bit clearer on the point.

1/5 Contributor

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After reading through several threads on these boards (most of which are several years old, at least), I've found that I still have questions and concerns about those Knowledge checks usually called (at least in my area) "Monster Knowledge Checks." It is my hope that this post yields advice, productive discussion, and specific answers regarding those questions and concerns. (If all of this has been covered in a thread or threads I missed in my reading, I'll be delighted with a simple pointer to the post or posts that address what is raised below. I apologize for the repetition in that case.)

To review, the rules for these Knowledge checks are found on page 100 of the Core Rulebook, as supplemented by the final entry on CRB Table 4-6: Knowledge Skill DCs on the page immediately following. The relevant rules read:

Core Rulebook wrote:
You can use this skill [Knowledge] to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.
Core Rulebook Table 4-6 wrote:

Task: Identify a monster's abilities and weaknesses

Knowledge Skill: Varies
DC: 10 + monster's CR

Question #1: Are there other rules covering these checks I've overlooked?

Now, the rules above are neither exacting nor detailed (I suspect they weren't intended to be), which would be fine in a home game, but I am sensitive to the philosophy of play outlined under the Table Variation heading at pages 33 and 34 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play Version 6.0. Particularly, the balance to be struck between exercising "the right and responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience" and what, exactly, "within the rules" means in this particular case ("Monster Knowledge Checks"). Because the rules are, to me, frustratingly vague. There's also a contextualizing bit of local implementation in my area that figures in here, which I'll mention in a moment.

Question #2: What is a monster?

This may seem like a question with an obvious answer (one answered on p. 12 of the Core Rulebook, but there is a consideration to be raised here. If a monster is a creature that "rel[ies] on racial Hit Dice instead of class levels for their powers and abilities" then how do these Knowledge checks come into play (if they do at all) when PCs are facing enemies ("creatures") which either (a) have no racial Hit Dice (a human wizard, for example), or, (b) have class levels as well as racial powers and abilities dependent on Hit Dice.

For example, if a party is faced with a gnome illusionist, can a "Monster Knowledge Check" be made at all? In that case, the enemy isn't a monster, is she?

A second example and attendant question: if a party is faced with an troll illusionist, do the results of the check only cover those "powers and abilities" (or "powers and vulnerabilities" or "abilities and weaknesses" depending on which terminology one uses) granted by Hit Dice (the troll's racial abilities) or do they also cover qualities granted by Class Levels?

Question #3: What do "common" and "particularly rare" mean?

How do you judge whether a particular monster is common or not? Does context come into account, by which I mean the particular setting, the past experiences of the Pathfinders (thorny, that), or the information gleaned from the traditional start-of-scenario Knowledge checks and questions?

Question #4: What does "remember a bit of useful information" mean?

This, it seems to me, probably means that a successful check obligates the GM to choose and relate one power, vulnerability, or weakness possessed by the target monster, right? This might be something found under Defenses (DR or an immunity, perhaps), or listed as an SQ, or even a special attack. Some monsters have a plethora of things to choose from, some have only a few, but I think I have a handle on this one. Why it gets complicated for me, personally, has to do with that bit of local implementation I mentioned above.

For reasons I haven't been able to get a handle on, local players in my area believe that a successful check allows them to "ask a question." They roll, they get a number, and then figure out how many such questions they're "allowed" depending on whether they simply meet the DC or instead exceed it by 5, 10, or what-have-you (yielding them one more question per each increment).

This is problematic for me for two reasons. First, there's nothing in the rules at all that I've found about players asking questions when this type of check is made. Second, it doesn't strike me as a particularly useful way to to run these checks unless the players are metagaming. Which is to say, they might ask questions that don't yield "a bit of useful information."

For example, if a player "gets a question" and asks "Does the monster have vulnerability to cold?" and the answer is "no," that's, frankly, not as useful as the information I probably would have provided acting on my own judgement. Especially for newer players or players who try not to metagame, this question and answer method doesn't seem in the spirit of the rules to me.

(Is this question thing, perhaps, an artifact of 3.0/3.5, games I never played?)

Okay, I have even more questions and concerns about these checks, but this has gone on way too long already, so I'll leave this here and hope it sparks a useful conversation. Thanks!

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Scribe Award nominations are up at locusmag.com and Tim's City of the Fallen Sky is among the nominees in the original novel category!

Contributor

When a character is unconscious owing to a negative hit point total, but is stable because she's received magical healing or First Aid and thus is no longer dying, what happens if the character receives further damage?

I could have sworn that she "destabilized" and resumed dying (losing 1 hp per round, making those Constitution checks, etc). But I actually can't find anything in the Injury and Death section of Chapter Eight of the Core Rulebook that backs that up.

I suppose I'm looking for a sentence that says something like: "If an unconscious but stable character with negative hit points receives further damage, she is no longer stable and resumes dying"

But I'm not finding anything like that.

As near as I can tell—and if I was confident in this interpretation I wouldn't be bugging you good people—once a character is stable she remains stable even if she receives further damage, by rules-as-written.

What am I missing?

Contributor

I feel like I'm going to be shown up to be a poor reader in asking this first one, but I honestly have searched the CRB back to front and can't find a clear and straightforward answer.

What is a "ranged touch attack?"

By which I mean, when you are asked to make one (usually as a spellcaster), what variables do you apply to the D20 you throw? Dexterity and Base Attack Bonus? Anything else? Where is this clearly spelled out?

The second question is a little more specific, and concerns rules found at p. 202 of the CRB.

When you throw a splash weapon and miss, how far from the targeted square does the gone-awry weapon land? I'm clear on how to determine what direction from the targeted square (or intersection) it lands, but I don't understand what's meant by "a number of squares...equal to to the range increment of the throw" means.

A specific example. A goblin throws some alchemist's fire at a target fifteen feet away and misses. I, as GM, roll the 1d8 to determine which direction the flask flies wide. But how far wide does it fall? 10 feet? That's the range increment of the weapon, but is it the range increment of the throw? I can see arguments for the flask landing 10 feet from the target (range increment of the weapon), 15 feet from the target (distance of the throw), and 20 feet (number of range increments taken into account when determining penalties to the throw from distance.)

Any help on these, especially the first, is greatly appreciated.

1/5 Contributor

Hey there. We've started an e-mail list to facilitate communication and help grow our community. If you're looking for PFS games in Lexington and Central Kentucky, please consider joining our list. If that link doesn't work, please contact me directly and I can add you manually.

Contributor

For the second week in a row, I find myself prepping a Pathfinder Society Scenario that features tiny and/or diminutive creatures as opponents. I believe I've got the rules for how they behave down, but I was wondering if anyone has ever figured out an elegant way to portray them on a battle map. I've just been using small miniatures and kind of scooting them into the PCs spaces when they close to attack.

I guess what I'm asking is if anyone is aware of any good physical representations of tiny and diminutive creatures—widely available toys, something from the craft shop, what-have-you. My wife suggested mounting figures from earrings on small bases, but that could get expensive.

1/5 Contributor

So this is something that came up last night when I ran PFS #2-13 Murder on the Throaty Mermaid. A new player (new to Pathfinder and to the Society, he's a 3.5 veteran, which I am not) playing an Andoran character didn't succeed on one of his two faction missions.

Spoiler:
He was incensed that the navigator Ulamon "just handed him" the ring (and was later incensed that he didn't get to keep it and that it wasn't magical, but whatevs on that) but that he was expected, as a 1st level character, to make a DC 20 Diplomacy check to convince the wererat stowaway Snig to leave the ship.

At the end of the scenario, he wanted to "go back and try again" but I ruled that he'd missed his shot when he didn't make the roll the first time.

I advised him (and the other players, some of whom made both components of their faction missions and some of whom didn't) not to expect automatic success in the faction missions in the scenarios anymore than they should expect automatic success for the overall adventures, even death is a possibility, etc etc.

But I did get to thinking that perhaps my ruling, which I stand by, was perhaps situational? Which is to say, are there some circumstances in which retrying is reasonable and some in which it is not?

(This same player also told me he'd just read the Guide to Organized Play and was happy to find out that any character can use any wand. That was an easy one, at least, I just told him to show it to me in his copy.)

Contributor

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Are the DCs listed in Table 9-1: Concentration Check DCs at p. 207 of the Core Rulebook additive or cumulative? Neither?

I'm running an encounter tonight that takes place on the deck of a ship during a storm at sea. I know the Concentration Check DC list for the "Violent motion while casting" is applicable, because under the description of "Violent Motion" on p. 206 the "deck of a storm-tossed ship" is given as an example.

But the characters will also be fighting under conditions of violent weather—I'd say specifically the 5 + spell level Concentration DC Check Situation of "Wind with rain or sleet while casting."

The Concentration Check DC for "Violent motion while casting" is 15 + spell level.

So, given that both of those two "Situations" are in play, violent motion and wind with rain, should the Concentration Check DC be the greater of the two (15 + spell level) or the two added together (20 + spell level)? Or something else altogether that I'm not seeing?

1/5 Contributor

I suppose this is specifically about Play by Post (where my own situation has arisen) or perhaps home games which are more leisurely than convention play or game night slots at the FLGS, as I doubt these types of situations would come up when time is tight.

So, I'm running Rise of the Goblin Guild as a PbP game here on these boards. If you've read/played/run that scenario, you know that most of the faction mission stuff is actually front loaded, with VC Heidmarch sort of giving the Pathfinders the afternoon off to wander the city and, for most factions at least, the opportunity to visit City Hall, a Varisian "camp," a noblewoman's house, what-have-you.

I ran the faction missions via PMs, and we took some time with them. Thinking to give better RP value, I took the time to carefully read Magnimar, City of Monuments and incorporate geographical and social information into the faction missions—physical descriptions of neighborhoods and architecture, the "feel" of the districts, etc.

One player (the only one who has at least thus far failed his faction mission, actually) asked, after he was stymied in getting to talk to the official he needed to talk to, where he could go to take in some of the local art scene. His character is a paladin of Shelyn interested in the visual arts, especially drawing and painting. I decided that a passerby would direct him to the square around the nearby Cenotaph monument, figuring that local art students would be present sketching the pillar (basing this off my experience of such monuments in European cities). He wandered over and I set the scene as having a sausage seller, a couple of Pharasman clerics patrolling the plaza, and some artists with portable easels.

One thing led to another, with various NPC interactions, and he eventually decided, after hearing that other people often did the same, to spend some time praying at the foot of the Cenotaph. Whether I should have or not, I gave him the Knowledge (Religion) check listed under the Cenotaph's monument bonus description in the Magnimar book, which he hit, and so I'm giving him the 24 hour +1 bonus to Fortitude saves.

Have I made a mistake here? Particularly in giving him the bonus, which isn't described in #4-01 at all, but also in "branching out" to incorporate other Magnimar material at all? Is it generally a good idea or a bad idea to incorporate "extra" stuff if and when there's time? (As another example of this, I wrote up extensive district/neighborhood descriptions for Absalom to use in First Steps Part I since I figured half the point of that scenario is to introduce PCs to the city.)

1/5 Contributor

One thing I like to do when I GM is to provide visual aids representing the NPCs.

The way I do this is with the "headshots" provided of so many Paizo NPCS (do you know what I'm talking about? the art showing, for example, the faction heads in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide? there are literally dozens and dozens of examples of this kind of art across the product line).

What I do is either take the provided art (frequently labelled) or, if there isn't any, "reskin" some other headshot. I print the page off from a .pdf, then use a hobby knife to cut it out from the text around it. Then, with a glue stick, I mount it on a rectangle of black foam core board. I use a label maker to tag the art with the name I need if the provided label doesn't work, and then I take a triangle of cardstock and glue half of it to the back to act as prop so I can stand the whole thing up in front of my GM screen. Taken together with a graph I make up of voices/accents and speech mannerisms (an entry might read: Alexander Bedard —> Teddy Kennedy, for example) I usually do a pretty good job (I think, and my players seem to think) making memorable, distinct NPCs. (Hopefully this makes up for my fake it 'til you make it style when it comes to the fighty-fight bits).

This method worked great for The Blakros Matrimony and I'm gonna try it again next week with Murder on the Throaty Mermaid. Which leads me to a question for you good people.

I have dozens and dozens of pages of printouts with Paizo housestyled "headshots" and I'm sure I can find something for pretty much all of the dozen or so NPCs in that adventure who aren't already provided. With one exception. This is the description provided for the Throaty Mermaid's cook, Shira Acidaxe:

"Her time at sea has not been kind to her, and in addition to her tattered eye patch, she sports a mouth of silvered teeth, a nasty scar on her cheek, and is missing half of her left ear."

I'm not even going to try to match that perfectly, but can anybody remember any Paizo art that even comes close? I can't find any female dwarfs at all in my (extensive, but not exhaustive) collection of .pdfs. If I wasn't so married to the uniformity of look using the Paizo art gets me I suppose I might be able to find something on the internet, but I thought I'd ask here first.

PS I make the same kind of little standups using art from the Bestiaries for monsters, which kind of makes up for my limited selection of miniatures.


We'll begin soon.

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