ChaztGG's page

First of all, a very sincere thank you to everyone who posted here to help me with my problem. You guys are amazing, you gave me a lot of great ideas, and had I known the Pathfinder community was so supportive I would have posted my question long ago.

I've thought long and hard about it, and I think that at long last I've finally come to the answer I've sought for so very long. I'm just going to tell them straight out that its just about impossible, not as an iron-fisted GM but simply as a matter of fact. After laying it out in my head, its clear to me that they either haven't completely thought it through or don't realize just how many allies Cheliax has. Team Cheliax is effectively Cheliax, (already arguably the most powerful nation in Golarion with the most powerful navy and some of the most powerful spellcasters) Isger, Molthune, Mendev, (not wanting to lose the Hellknights against the Worldwound) any other country that owes the Hellknights favors, any other country that cares about making money through trading with them, the Red Mantis, the Aspis Consortium, an entire plane of the multiverse, and one of the major gods of the setting. Team them is most likely their kingdom and... nobody, for fear of provoking the aforementioned crapstorm. Even if, through an inconceivable string of Nat 20's and Miracle and Wish spells that Asmodeus in all his godly power wasn't just able to outright veto, they did manage to put down Queen Abrogail, she's not the only noble to sign a pact with Asmodeus, they would almost have to entirely wipe Cheliax and Isger off the map. And even if they did that, there's still countless Hellknights operating in other countries that would converge on them like a noose. I think they're just relying on their power-gamed characters to carry them through a series of "CR+3" encounters with plenty of time to rest in between, but Cheliax wouldn't respond to a threat like that, and even if I did cleave strictly to the encounter building rules, the legions of hell are innumerable, they could simply conga-line them into an attrition victory. No matter how you slice it, they lose 100% of the time.

And the reason I would tell them this is because that my friends, is what I consider fair warning. As I said, I refuse to railroad my players. If they still wish to try I won't stop them, but they do so knowing full well that they are throwing their characters and their campaign into a wood chipper, and I am not responsible for what follows. Like any good GM, I have to let their decisions affect the campaign, even their bad ones, and then we can start a new one with lessons learned.

Does that sound fair to you guys?

Forgive me if this is a silly question to ask, but I've been wanting to find some other opinions on the subject for some time now. Also, I hope I'm posting this in the right place, since my question does deal slightly with the fluff of Golarion, but I do believe my actual question is setting-agnostic.

What should a GM do when his players want to tell a story he doesn't?

I believe we can all agree that its good GM practice to work the backstories of his PCs into the plot of an ongoing campaign, yes? I've run several games in the Inner Sea setting, and every time I do, at least one of the same two players will turn in a backstory that involves laying waste to Cheliax (with the intention and expectation of eradicating it from the gaming group's canon permanently, for no other reason than that they, the players, find it distasteful) The problem is, I actually like Cheliax (Dark Archive, baby ;) ) I like that despite its diabolic nature it actually does a lot of good in the world. From a storytelling standpoint, they're a great vehicle for shades of gray morality stories, and I haven't even been abe to use them, because I know that as soon as I try the story will go straight out the window as the weapons get pointed at any red and black in sight.

I've tried discussing it with them, nothing. In any scenario where they have autonomy they want to get rid of it, and I refuse to railroad my players. I've tried making villains of Chelaxian nobles to let them deal a lesser blow to the nation, no dice, the hate train keeps on chugging. I've offered to run Hell's Rebels for them in the name of catharsis, same thing, they want it GONE.

These aren't bad players, they're great people to play with that have been a pillar of my group for years, but even recently, as I solicited backstories for an adventure in Garund with conceivably nothing to do with Avistan whatsoever (one simple question: what do your characters seek in Katapesh?) I still got "mercenaries to stage a coup and a diviner to find a power capable of eradicating House Thrune once and for all." I honestly have no idea if this campaign will even get to the point where that might be possible, but, obviously I'm going to have to find an answer to this eventually.

So what's my move here? I suppose good GM Etiquette demands I let them do it, but even if it means amputating one of my favorite parts of the setting? Considering their goal would be nearly impossible (given that the nation is economically in bed with 90% of the Inner Sea and has a god with a vested interest in its well-being) should I just let them run themselves into a buzzsaw of failure? That doesn't seem like a particularly honorable solution either. What about for the high-level campaign I've got flapping in the breeze? Do I let that campaign end with the kingdom they've spent two real life years building getting crushed beneath the allies of a super-power? If I do let them take it down, where does it end? They've already started talking about "Nidal is next." I would like my games to be a little bit more than lining up cans for them on a fence.

So, I am at a loss fellow gamers. Any advice or opinions on the matter is greatly appreciated.