ChamomileKing's page

ChamomileKing wrote:

Ok, I hear you. So unless a spell specifically says you need line of sight, all it necessitates is line of effect?

Yes.

Look at the spell and see what it is affecting. You need line of effect to that. Every spell affects something or it is not doing anything. If the effect is just on you then line of effect is trivial.

Likewise what does it target? You need line of sight to that. But many spells don't target anything.

Ok, thanks for that. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, in my brain having line of sight automatically means you have line of effect, I suppose I didn't realize there were two different things at work here so I'm having a difficult time separating them....

So if a spell has a target it needs both line of effect AND line of sight?

But just to be specific. My game has a character who just went down, and our cleric is wanting to use Breathe of Life as a reaction. It has a target (the triggering creature). The cleric might be behind a cave wall or something. in this case, there is no line of effect, so it's not possible, correct?

But say, the character went down within a stinking cloud...he could still use Breath of life even though he can't see her, because there's nothing obstructing him. Or is it that he couldn't use it because he can't see into it, and therefore cannot target the character?

ChamomileKing wrote:

So, is it correct to say that 2e necessitates line of sight for all spells unless otherwise noted, as is stated on that page?

No. That page is about Targeting.

You need Line of Effect for all spells. Though some specific spells have wording that may change this.

Line of Sight (or some other precise sense) is normally a requirement for Targeting. But not all spells require targets. Many area based spells don't.

ChamomileKing wrote:

If that is the case, then Line of Effect and Line of Sight come into play in more granular cases?

Like, maybe you have Line of Sight but not Line of effect if you have True Seeing to target someone, but that target happens to be behind a wall?

And you may have line of effect to someone with a stinking cloud, but you do not have Line of sight to that individual. Does that in any way make sense?

Yes there are circumstances when you can see (or otherwise perceive) a target but you don't have line of effect to them, because there is a barrier in the way which the GM rules blocks line of effect. Perhaps the gap is too small as you are looking through a fine grill, or there is something like a wall of force in the way, or you have precise tremorsense and can precisely target an enemy on the other side of a wall.

Likewise you might have line of effect to an enemy but you can't see it because of a cloud or darkness etc, so you can't target them.

Ok, I hear you. So unless a spell specifically says you need line of sight, all it necessitates is line of effect?

Yes, if you have Line of Effect, but not clear Line of Sight to your target, the Spell Target rules say that you may (or may not depending on GM) be able to target anyway but with the normal concealment/hidden penalties.

If you have Line of Sight, but not necessarily Line of Effect, that becomes a lot less clear. See this thread that discusses that topic fairly exhaustively. But please don't necrobump that thread for no good reason.

Thank you for that link! I hadn’t seen that one. So, is it correct to say that 2e necessitates line of sight for all spells unless otherwise noted, as is stated on that page?

If that is the case, then Line of Effect and Line of Sight come into play in more granular cases?

Like, maybe you have Line of Sight but not Line of effect if you have True Seeing to target someone, but that target happens to be behind a wall?

And you may have line of effect to someone with a stinking cloud, but you do not have Line of sight to that individual. Does that in any way make sense?

Hi all! Hope this isn’t unwelcome, i’ve been trying to understand the dileniation between these two.

From my understanding, line of effect means you can cast the spells as long as there is no obstruction - big rock, wall, veil, etc.

Line of sight requires precise sight, not just general awareness. You can’t cast through darkness/fog/invisibility.

But, I’m a little confused. For instance, a spell lile breath of life doesn’t say that it requires sight, but just a target. But in order to use a reaction wouldn’t you have to see the thing happen?

And in phantasmal killer, it doesn’t say that you need to have line of sight, but that seems odd to be able to cast it on something you can’t see.

I get how spells that require attack rolls automatically imply line of sight, but I’m not understanding how you can cast a targeted spell without necessarily seeing the target. Thanks for any further clarification!

Hello All! First time posting here, so please forgive me for any newbie mistakes.

So, I also happen to be a first time DM. I'm running a game for a group of friends and I'm really excited! I've played pathfinder as a PC but never did I think I'd be DM'ing! The amount of stuff I feel like I have to know is a bit...overwhelming, but I'm not too worried, as I think I can improvise a lot of stuff. I have the most experience with pathfinder in this group- the others have a very small amount.

I've been looking into some neat additions to the AP that might make it a little more fun (like the idea of the carnival games that I saw, loved that!) but so many people have done SO many cool things, and SO many of those things seem very complicated and involved- adding stat blocks, changing story structures, throwing on stats to NPC's, etc... My initial plan was really to just run the AP as is, with a few tweaks here and there for fun and maybe a bit of challenge. Y'all are such pros haha, it's a little intimidating! I want to give my PC's cool items, some nice events, stuff like that- I don't want to make things too hard, as I care more about them having a good time than feeling Ultimately Challenged.

My question to you- what are some of your favorite additions/changes to the AP that you feel made a critical difference in the game? Hopefully, nothing to crazy or complicated, but if it's worth it I don't mind looking into it! And files/links to downloads would be greatly appreciated.

(Also, secondary quick question, the group will be maybe 5-6 people, and to make it more of a challenge I was just going to add 50% of health to the baddies, maybe bump up AC and such, nothing too crazy. Does that seem like a good tactic?)

Thank you all so much!!