Bad guy one's page

Heyo,

If something got errata'd you can sell it back for full price

If something got clarified, you're stuck with it.

Quote:

Example a) +1 brawling armor (old price 4K plus armor ) new Price 16K plus armor price ... do I have to pay the difference ? doe i keep the item at a reduced resale value (and consider myself lucky) or do i have to pay the 12K diff ? or lastly does it morph into some other (+2 total enhancement value armor) ?

That one has THREE options

1)kick in more cash to keep it
1.5) sell your recent gear to get more cash to pay for the difference.
2) sell it back for what you paid. (you could theoretically take this cash and then buy +@ armor if you wanted_

I am kind of falling asleep to cite everything but most things should be in this thread somewhere i think

Thanks for clarifying. I actually got frustrated and walked away, and found the answer with more searching, and then returned to this thread to post the link, but you already did. Awesome! For people in the future, the first page of the previously linked thread is the one with answers.

Alexander Lenz wrote:

I realy like this kind of rebuildclarification, can we expect something for the other erratas that happened pre Gencon? (There are some siscussions about what qualifies for what rebuild in our region.)

I admit this is a bit of an experiment, fueled in part by having a slice of time in which to review the errata in full with Linda, type up a fairly comprehensive list of likely rebuild-worthy issues and their changes, and bring up a few concerns with the design team. That was not something I had a good opportunity to do for the Advanced Class Guide or Advanced Race Guide due to the massive number of projects the entire editorial staff was juggling for Gen Con, so Linda and I did what we could there. Those two errata are still on my list of things to revisit, but I am juggling those with my other development responsibilities in addition to acting as the interim campaign coordinator.

It's also an experiment in so much as the extent of the rebuilding allowed. It's more than we've allowed in the past, minus a few playtest-related rebuilds. I started being very strict about rebuilding when I started this job, and I recognize I've gravitated more toward leniency in that regard over the years. This is helping me get a feel for where the right equilibrium point is. I suspect our next campaign coordinator will help to shape that policy, too.

As a gm for years, I've had the same trend in my home games. Rebuilds for new rules or changed rules seem to have the least impact, it's not something the players can plan on doing at a set level.

Also, for things allowing retraining of feats, are retraining of traits also acceptable? I know there's a few different builds that had their feat trees changed that had traits associated with them.

i have a ninja 7/gunslinger 1/arcanist 1 who is focused on using sap master with a double barreled pistol doing a full attack during the surprise round for max damage. the level of arcanist is there to enable me always acting in surprise round, and all of my feats and ninja talents are used for either the gun or for maxing nonlethal damage. my question is, can i also retrain my ninja talents, any archetypes taken to enable this build (bandit) and possibly the arcanist level. i assume there are multiple rogue players out there who have taken at least the combat trick talent in order to make sap master better, so being able to retrain talents in this case would be nice for them as well.

as an aside, i wholeheartedly agree with these nerfs. i had refrained from combat with this guy for the last few levels, except in cases where the table agreed we just wanted to get through the fight quickly. doing a minimum of 402 damage during the surprise round is pretty lame, and i assume not fun for people.

Mark Stratton wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Bad guy one wrote:

I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

Being blind prevents these goals.

Untrue. Being blind may hinder these goals, it may make achieving the goals more challenging, but it doesn't prevent them. While I know we are only talking about fictional characters here, we are dangerously close to essentially saying that people with some sort of disability are incapable of doing things those without such disabilities can do.

Let's not further head down that road, please.

Exactly.

It was difficult for me to tell one of my close friends that she cannot play a deaf character in PFS (other than the deafness curse), that such characters are illegal.

This friend of mine is deaf. She is also not disabled. She is an MD in a very difficult specialty. She served in the Peace Corps. She is fluent in 3 languages (she reads lips). And she is super athletic (and very competitive).

When I told her that she could not build a deaf barbarian, said that she wouldn't play PFS. I agree with her—it's insulting.

well, technically she can play one, it just costs 60gp per session. see my post above

I have a 7th-level character who wears a blindfold. She currently only wears it about half the time (she's training with it). At 10th level, she will wear it all the time.

Here are some of the ways that she "burdens" her party:

• Adjacent allies get a +4 bonus to AC most rounds;
  
• Once per day, if she can touch an evil enemy, then she takes half the damage that the touched enemy inflicts against her allies instead of them;
  
• She can lay on hands;
  
• Next level she will have a 6d6 cold breath weapon;
  
• And she can also simply tank; she is very good at standing in the doorway and letting ranged allies lob shots over her head (she's a halfling).

You can build a character around this concept. Make sure that you are still contributing toward the group. The clouded vision oracle is a good idea (I have one of those also, they are fun). You can use a blindfold to effectively blind your character. Some other tips:

• Get the Blind-Fight feat. It will help a lot.
  
• If you can get access to blindsense, or even better blindsight, do so. Some polymorph effects allow this, and there are other ways as well.
  
• You can target creatures with spells if you can touch them. Buffing works okay with blindness, but some of the higher-level buffs are going to give your party a bit more trouble (like haste) unless they are all willing to stand right next to you for a round.
  
• Bardic performance doesn't depend on your sight. You can inspire courage to help your allies all day long without seeing a thing. Same with channel energy (though Selective Channeling won't work). Look for other effects like that to help your party.

As long as you are a contributing member of the group, I think you'll be okay. Some people will moan and groan when you tell them that your character is blind, but when you start saving their characters' lives, they'll forget about it.

Explore, Report, Cooperate.

this exactly. i read the posts saying being blind is just being a burden and wonder how a blind person would feel knowing that was said. pfs should be welcoming of all types, and stating that playing a disability means you are being a jerk says more about you than the other person

i realize that the economic benefits of doing this bay not be immediately obvious to some people.

right now in pfs there is essentially a "no refund" policy. players spend time (which is meant to be rewarding for sure) as well as money for source material to enjoy their time. if a player has a bad session (whether because of gms, bad players, or just an emergency that pops up) they currently cannot later get a replay (or refund) on that scenario. if they spend money on a sourcebook and in game resources on a feat or trait they end up disliking, they cannot get a refund.

i feel it is well established that the organizers are against flat out retraining for various reasons, and i am not trying to argue against that. i am arguing that if a new source comes out, and a player has a feat/trait/spell or whatever that they would like to switch out for the new ability, they not only have to buy the book, but also spend in game resources (which they also have worked for, it might be fun work, but it is still work) in order to change to the new ability. i am sure that both costs together present a significant enough reason for some players to avoid purchasing the new book.

however, if you remove a cost (a cost of time that does not involve actual revenue for the company) you could potentially entice more customers into purchasing new material.

of course i am not saying that this amount of increased revenue would be overwhelming, but think of it like this; if there is a soda machine in the back of my store that you have to walk up a flight of stairs to get to, less people will go to that than the one right at the entrance. the extra cost of time spent loses potential sales.

additionally, if the window was limited to 1-3 months, people would be potentially more excited to see material that they could immediately use, and the fear of missing the window would result in some sales to people that might not want the book otherwise.

the costs of this action would most likely be talking about the rules change at a meeting (im not sure how much that costs paizo honestly). the costs to gms and organizers (volunteers) would be moments of their time verifying that the retrains are being done properly, which is part of what they do already and should not result in any sort of negative publicity or anything.

this could potentially also slightly counter the problem that all rpg systems have: new rules are a way to make money, but only if people are willing to buy new rules. i think if you ask around you will find that sales for pathfinder unchained were increased by people buying it just so they could retrain their barbarian or rogue.

With a blindfold, sure. You could also get Blindness/Deafness or similar cast each session, but since actual blindness that's not from a class feature has to be cleared at the end of each session, or the character is retired, this would get a bit expensive since you won't be able to do it yourself.

I'm just gonna point out that blindness deafness is dismissable, so it shouldn't actually cost anything to remove it.

Getting it each session will actually not even cost that much, since it's only need 2nd level spell. Should be 60gp, or 180 per level which is really quite negligible. The cost is low enough you could have it from the first session even. I would tell the gm before each session how yer blind, but this really should work.

I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk. I think just doing a blindfold is the only way to be blinds all the time.

If you want a guy bad at seeing even without the blindfold, you could make a wayang, dump wisdom, and then be an alchemist or mutagen using brawler and make dex mutagen, bringing yer wisdom to 3, with the smoke goggles your perception would be a solid -7, meaning you really couldn't see anything past ten feet unless it was large sized or larger.

Given that list, sounds like you should make an Inquisitor, as a fairly vanilla inquisitor can fill most of those rolls *plus* be decent in combat.

Truth

I think having a scout character can be useful if yer party lets you scout. Some groups don't let people scout, so people stop playing them.

Healers. Playing a healer sucks at low level. Your role can easily be done by a wand. ive seen so many people turn down offers to heal by saying "don't worry I've got a wand". When you say that you are telling the person their role is redundant, the reason they are playing is not useful to you. It is rare to see a player who is willing to play rough the twenty or so odd sessions before they actually start becoming not just useful but actually life saving. Breath of life is great, the ability to cast restoration during the adventure is great, but you have to slog through a bunch of nothingness to get there. I think I've seen aunt a hundred or so characters in he local play group at high level and I've yet to see a dedicated healermin a 7-11, only people that can do it incidentally like a Druid or something.

dilpomancers. I've seen a few, but it seems any time I'm in a mod that I really want one there's none to be found.

Really though it depends on yer local. I like having a few different characters that are good at different things so I can play different types of scenarios with different groups

Pretty simple proposal, whenever new,sources become available, allow retraining for a discount to the new feats, spells, traits, and mebbe even classes. Unchained got me thinking of this. Letting people retrain will get the casuals more interested in new books, which is the lifeblood of this industry. The usual gripe of power gamers can plan to retrain is lessened in this case, as it is only available for new stuff, and therefore very hard to plan for. the retraining should only be a short window, mebbe a few months, but I honestly cannot see a downside for this for paizo.

BretI wrote:

Unless you have the wizard, sorcerer, or bard cast the Message cantrip or get yourself the Messenger vanity for your Wayfinder. With Message, you get what is basically a magical throat microphone and earpiece.

"My stealth check is a 57

" *radio crackle*... hey sneaky, what are we in for?

The monster turns to you and opens its maw.

"What the hell!? Fifty. Seven...

"Those nearby can hear these messages with a DC 25 Perception check.....

There's also the need to whisper back, which is probably considerably lower.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Since no two DMs do stealth rules the same way, it can be easy to run afoul of a problem while trying to stealth.

Which is a good reason to make sure that you know the rules and can gently ask leading questions.

* Is there enough concealment to allow me to stealth up to them?
* I'm keeping at least 30 feet away. Did you figure the -3 into their perception rolls?
* Does it look like there are enough objects around over here (pointing at map) to provide me cover or concealment? I want to get to a place where I can maintain stealth

Half the time I've tried that I've gotten yeah sure, followed by you're autospotted for lack of cover.

Or it gives everyone a run down on what they are about to face and allows them to prepare for it. The rogue should either retreat or stay where they are hidden until the party joins them.

How much does that actually help? Baring a spare resist elements most of the buffs in the game are pretty general purpose. Knowing the fights starting doesn't give many actual benefits.

It's been useful for me by having us dimension door directly into a favorable position. an alternative is to have maxed sleight of hand, steal all the loot there, and then bypass the encounter. Or you can have the party hide in a portable hole/ bag of holding and have the rogue dump them out in a good position. It's true in pfs this rarely seems to make life or death differences, but I've seen people get pretty pumped on being able to plan for encounters, and being the enabler for that feels pretty good

Let's say yer a sorcerer who likes to conjure things. Let's say you like to ride in barrels places, perhaps down a river like a hobbit or whatver. Let's say you do this in pathfinder.

A creature inside a barrel with an eyehole cut out of it can still cast spells targeting outside the barrel right?

Do you have imoroved cover from ranged attacks from outside the barrel?

Can melee attacks hit you while inside the barrel?

Let's say the barrel is adamantine, what then?

Let's say you have a favorite adamantine barrel and have permanent silent image cast on it to cover up the eyeholes so others don't know they are there. What's a decent dc to find the spot where the eyeholes are so your opponent can make the will save to disbelieve the image?

Thannnnmkkss yallllll

As a person who has run scouts (stealthy jawns) in pfs, I have found it extremely rewarding and enjoyable, but I find it best to approach the dm beforehand. It usually goes like this:
Me: so I'm thinking of bringing my stealth guy, but I don't want to spotlight too much, is it ok if for most enoucnters we just skip me describing what I am doing and you accept that I have scouted ahead, if appropriate for the encounter?
Dm: what do you mean?
Me: I mean, just draw out the maps of rooms before we get there, and put monsters where they are if I can perceive them.
Dm: what would let you do that? How are you avoiding detection?
Me: my guy is immune to blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, can only be detected with scent if I'm within 15 feet, is immune to divination spells, and is always climbing the walls. My take ten on stealth is 40 (or whatever)
A bit of explaining feats and such happens, dm will either accede I should be able to just report the locations of monsters so we can prep before fights, or they get squirmy, and I bring a different character.
At the table, I ask the party if they are ok with me scouting ahead, alone. I tell them I won't be triggering encounters, just letting us prep, if the table is squirmy, bring another character.
This works like 90% of the time. If I bring a stealth guy and the dm and party isn't letting me be useful, I just stealth and try to drag bodies out of combat when people start dropping.
Personally I don't build stealth guys to do damage, but I can see it being more viable with unchained. I max out sleight of hand and rob the enemies blind before we encounter them, which can lead to funny situations with archers and wizards.

As for a home game, I think a hide in plain sight build would be extremely disruptive to most types of games. What is stopping a person who has the full suite of stealth abilities from robbing everything and everybody in the world they meet? I could see this being fun for a solo campaign, but at a certain point (and level 10) the character effectively stops existing and is just a black hole that wealth disappears into.