Azariez's page

First I must say one thing I really enjoy about pathfinder is all the available options to build your characters. With that being said it can also be the largest time sink and just vexing part of this game ;-)

The problem I'm seeking guidance for is my Undine build. I have this goal to build a character from each of the planar races. Next up for me is the Undine, which will be built based around this mini. Undine

Ok so here goes my two current build ideas. This is for PFS and currently a lvl 3 from GM credit. I know a Bard is not optimal for an Undine based on stats and the bonuses but I wanted to build the watersinger archetype.

Lvl 3 Bard:
Stats:
Str:6
Dex:16
Con:13
Int:12
Wis:14
Cha:16

Feats: Harmonic Spell, Lingering Performance

With this build he is obviously not a damage dealer but with being able to use both his inspire and water ability would provide some support. With only 14 rounds, performance mgmt would be important. Also at this level the water cube could attack although the damage is really light (+5 1d6+3). On the plus side at lvl 4 I would gain Aqueous Orb, Hydraulic Torrent and water walk all as bonus spells.

Another Option I thought would be to just pickup the water singer abilities and then build a Cleric until 12.

Lvl2 Bard (watersinger) lvl1 Cleric (Evangelist)

Stats:
Str:6
Dex:15
Con:12
Int:10
Wis:18
Cha:15

Domain:Trickery

Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)

This option would give me a decent chance with command and murderous command (DC17) but with limited uses and only being a single round not sure how useful that would be. Also this character wouldn't really have a damage option outside of a crossbow.

I know this might be a bit of a long post but any pointers or help would be appreciated. This would be my first attempt at a Bard or Cleric. Originally I thought I could build a Mystic Theurge at lvl 6 using the bardic performances as synergy (4 Bard / 1 Cleric).

Thank you everyone for the feedback and I sent an email to my Regional Venture-Coordinator. I wasn't sure if this was the best place to start but hopefully this will gain some traction. Access to all the scenarios would an extremely valuable perk. Buying a few each month on top of books, pawns, maps and other GM materials adds up over time.

I was not 100% where to add this question but I assume a GM thread is a good a place as any.

My pathfinder hobby started a little over 2 years ago when a friend introduced me during a home campaign. Wanting to play more often than once a month this has quickly turned into a full time hobby. With that being said I want to promote the game and help local game organizers with hosting games.

Locally I'm lucky in the fact we have a pretty large group of players but lately we have been lacking GM's. With that void I have been starting to run games. I know Paizo offers a hierarchy to aid community organizers in acquiring GM material for society play.

How does one go about moving up the ranks within a lodge? Is a certain level of GM required?

Oh I forgot to mention, at this point Hydraulic maneuver was more of a low level feat.

Now that I need to make a firm choice I have been thinking spell focus or lingering performance might be better selections.

Good questions from both and my idea at lvl 5 - 6 would be as follows.

At lvl 5 I would gain Aqueous Orb + Hydraulic Torrent and having the ability to attack with my water cube. Granted this attack is rather minor it still helps with cover and just being an obstacle. If I go to lvl 6 with Bard I gain life water (1d4 rounds of sickened no save) plus a second water cube (10 feet total).

At this point my thoughts are if I expand my versatility with Theurge I would gain invisibility and lvl2 cleric spells and so on.

To be honest mixing the Cleric with Bard was a nice way to add levels of bardic performance, saves and a nice spell list. I'm not firm on Theurge or cleric for that matter but have enjoyed playing the water singer bard class. I'm open to feedback, tweaks or changes you see that might help. I'm not offended by the advice, criticism or recommendations.

So if you do this you'll take forever before you even are handing out +2 bonuses with your inspire courage, or never reach that point if you're actually going the Prestige class. And you'll never reach the point where starting it is a move action.

No doubt, the main point of the build being the Cleric spells at lvl 6 on and of course the water singer abilities. Maybe the +2 inspire courage is where I should be looking but to be honest inspire was a secondary thought.

This is my first time reaching out and seeking some input on the advice thread. I have viewed this thread numerous times and have come away with some great ideas, so here it goes.

I've played PFS for about 2 and half years now and finally decided to try a Bard. Well I should say I'm building a Mystic Theurge Bard. Knowing this might not be an optimized bard he goes along with my theme of building a character from each plane.

The build to this point at lvl 2-

Undine:
Cleric (Evangelist) 1 / Bard (watersinger) 1

Ability Scores:

Str: 6
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 18
Cha: 15

Domain:Trickery
(copycat)

Feats: Hydraulic Maneuver

Traits: Magical Knack (cleric)
Reactionary

So my thinking is with a Watersinger and Hydraulic Maneuver I can help with a bit of battlefield control while buffing other players. The main issue I have just turning level 2 is do I keep things the way they are of switch them a bit. I have been thinking if I drop Wis to 17 I could bump Cha to 16 which would net me 2 uses of bardic performance and higher face skills. Of course this would cost me lower saves and command save DC (15 to 14).

At this point I thought I could also drop Hydraulic Maneuver to add spell focus (enchant) and get command to 16 which is average at low levels but with 2 uses .. meh. Weapon Finesse was not really on my radar as a 1d6 -2 rapier attack seems like a wasted feat.

Any thoughts on my Undine Cleric/Bard build of Besmara?

Thanks for the clarification Lintecarka, much appreciated.

This is a really basic question but as my experience grows I would rather ask and know for certain than make assumptions and be incorrect.

My first question is the very function of maintaining a bardic performance. I get that it costs 1 bardic performance and a standard action to start the effect. Then it is a free action to maintain that effect each round. The question I have and have heard different answers for is as follows. Does each round maintaining the performance cost one use of bardic performance? I assumed it would as you get additional uses as you level and this is basically a spell but have heard others say no maintaining a song just continues the original effect.

Question two involves the same topic but a feat called Harmonic spell. This feat allows you to cast a spell and doing so says you do not need to use a round of bardic performance. So in essence if you cast a cantrip it sounds as if you could perform indefinitely.

Thanks in advance,

Nope.

I guess this is just a way to keep everyone active on the boards ;-)

So let's say our occultist 2 / wizard 2 had these spells:

Occultist Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +5) (These do not have arcane spell failure)
1st (3/day) — cause fear, inflict light wounds, lead blades
0 (at will) — bleed, grave words, mage hand

Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +5) (These have arcane spell failure.)
1st — cause fear, detect undead, restore corpse, 1 slot open
0 (at will) — acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead

And they cast cause fear. They choose whether they cast it as an occultist (in which case it's a spontaneous psychic spell) or as a wizard (in which case it's a prepared arcane spell). That's the way multiclass works: there are no "shared" spells or class features (Prestige Class shenanigans like Mystic Theurge notwithstanding). Everything is separate.

Both would benefit from Spell Focus (necromancy) etc.

Perfect explanation, thank you for the reply.

Thanks for the reply Mighty Glacier,

I agree with Necromantic Servant dropping of the map around lvl 3 or so. The only interesting part would be a boost to necromancy spells and that you could get a "free" +2 belt at lvl 2 by taking transmutation.

From my post I do not think I articulated my question very clearly. Let's say I took two levels of the Occultist and then two levels of necromancy Wizard. The spells would be on the same list but with two different forms of casting. In this scenario would the player need to keep track of which source they are coming from or would the fact an occultist is able to cast these cover the shared spells?

Recently I have mulled the idea of creating a character with these two classes. It's been tough to find a focus as it seems to blend a casting class with a martial one.

So my questions to the community are, has anyone else tried this combo and if so thoughts? And if a spell is the same but comes from two locations how does arcane failure work?

Maybe this point needs a separate thread but I have always wondered if an occultist, spiritualist or physic gain spells that function the same as those from an arcane source does spell failure still count for those arcane spells?

From a rules stand point I would assume the player would just need to keep track how the spell was cast. With that said other spell powers do stack from separate sources. ie. spell focus necromancy would help spells across the board correct?

The feedback was appreciated Muser and you were correct in the assumption of my reading the rules. To be honest I even pulled up the Paizo rules and read them to the group to no avail. With the information everyone has provided and the reference posts. This should bring some light to this class mechanic.

As a side note the person in question just signed up for a game I'm running next month with a lvl 2 Magus. Kind of funny but hey it's the best way to understand a class :-)

Azariez wrote:

Is there a thread I can refer this player to

THIS POST should improve your fellow player's understanding of how spellstrike and spell combat work (and work together).

I noticed this and read over the post while creating the character but not to be daft I wasn't sure who Grick was. His post does do a terrific job of detailing Magus combat mechanics and helped me understand them. I just wasn't sure if I could use this to support a rules dispute as it might not be "official".

Yes, the weird intaction of spell combat and spellstrike is magusflurry with a side of cheese

Hack//Thanatos wrote:

:

This Changes the mechanics of Spell Combat plus Spellstrike from

Full Attack + Touch Spell

to

Full Attack + Touch Spell + Free Attack

This is correct. In its previous incarnation, spellstrike was not even really a bonus.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

(PS, we also added a few cool new touch spells for them to use)
______

so print that out and show it to them (preferably not on a night they're DMing)

Perfect link! Thanks, as this is what I am looking for :-)

And yes at the time this was another player as the GM had no issue until the debate began. It ended with my agreeing to just cast evil eye and pick up the debate the following week with some form of proof.

Thanks for the input Lamplighter, you make an excellent point and I completely agree with you about allowing others to shine. I typically play a form of battlefield control for this exact reason. My Magus is actually a hexcrafter with limited offensive touch spells. Thinking about the game I can see what might have caused the ire as at that moment I was flying (hex) and during the next round I whipped an NPC twice from distance.

My comment about arcane mark was actually in jest. It might be legal but it can be overpowered when you do so with a strength Magus build.

Thank you for the replies and I just wanted to have a sanity check.

I have only been playing Pathfinder a couple years and as you know it is a rather complex game so I just wanted to double check.

To press my luck next week I will cast arcane mark to really fan the flames. :-O

Recently an issue came up where during play a veteran player had questioned the ability of a 5th lvl Magus to cast and attack with his weapon twice. Basically during a full round action my character cast shocking grasp (big surprise) delivered with my whip and then used his normal attack to hit with his whip again.

The other players position was spell combat allows you to do either but not both and does not allow a second attack with the same weapon. In the end we did not agree and the position was this character would not be allowed at tables he GM's.

Am I missing something? It seems this is opened up at lvl 2 as a Magus and the attacks take a -2 penalty along with a low bab class this doesn't seem like an exploit but a valid strength of the class.

Is there a thread I can refer this player to and what can be done to prevent banning a legal character from society play?

Any help would be appreciated.

Wow great feedback and thanks everyone for answering so quickly. Much appreciated.

Just a quick question and seeking a rules clarification.

Can the Ring of Spell Knowledge be used to learn the mesmerist level 1 spell Mental Block?

I have a 4th level Wizard and was just curious if this spell list would would be included. Thanks in advance.