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Agi Hammerthief wrote:

Gnomes - +2 Con, +2 Int (clever tricksters), -2 Str ; Rogue, Sorcerer

Elves - +2 Dex, +2 Cha (mysterious and beautiful), -2 Con ; Fighter, Sorcerer
Halflings - +2 Dex, +2 Cha (likable and gregarious), -2 Str ; Rogue, Bard
Dwarves - +2 Con, +2 Wis (strong-minded and determined), -2 Dex ; Fighter, Cleric
Half-Orcs - +2 Str, +2 Wis (keen-senses, primal), -2 Int ; Brabarian, Druid
Humans - +2 Any

Since 3rd edition came out, I've pretty much always thought that Elves were archetypal Bards. Skilled in swordplay and archery, incredibly skillful, innately magical, known for their ultra-light chainmail and said to life lives of grace, beauty and art.

But giving one of the most popular D&D races the arguably least popular D&D class as Favored Class would probably have led to a revolution in the streets.

So, since they had decided that Gnomes were the least popular race, they strapped Bard on to them instead, in a mad attempt to create a vortex of suck that would destroy both the race and the class. And, as of 4th edition, it appears that their sinister plan worked...

those MONSTERS!!!!!!!! *Sneaksy's eye widen with horror*

addy grete wrote:

How about asking people who *used* to play a cleric but stopped because they don't find it interesting or fun anymore? What could bring them back? I'm also afraid that the new rules will push more people away from playing clerics because, the new classes are even more fun to play.

maybe ask Paizo to stop nerfing the magic and return to 3.0 magic which was more decent, worked longer and gave the cleric more options

i continue playing in my current party because we FORCED the DM to return magic to 3.0 :P
it was not a question of "please, can we?"
it was a "its the only way we are playing" demand

Dennis da Ogre wrote:

One group gets together and no one wants to play a cleric the group breaks down and tries to figure out who's playing the cleric.

The supply of clerics is not the problem, it's the demand for clerics that is the problem.

one of our games has 3 characters: a bard (who believes herself captain and works like that, no minstrel... thanks), a conjurer (who is what some would call our tank), and the rogue (needs to attack at a distance with daggers or is useless in combat, really)

the DM asked what were we going to do without a Cleric, we answered "evade combat, surprise enemies, be smart... and in the very very bad circumstance we get maulled... the Captain has Cure light wounds" :P

i still have not used it

i see who wears the pants in your gaming circle, the players. when you have a pushover DM you can get away with about ANY party composition, and i think thats the case here. if the DM customizes the game to be focused on farming, then its okay that everyone plays commoners. you DM looks starved to run and you all look "eh" about the game.

3.0 buffs were wrong. The buffs lasted to long, and some spells were unacceptably unbalanced (im looking at you haste) bull strength lasted how long!?

I have only one answer to the cleric/bandaid problem. dont let them heal in combat + scale down combat. Pathfinder classes are supposed to be +1ECL over what most modules are written for, so have the have to make a difficult spellcraft role to cure someone in combat (in combat heals are so video game rpg anyways)

Crusader of Logic wrote:

88 HP was the absolute high end which you would expect from things like demon lords and the eldest dragons. So you do say... 1d8+6 5-7 times vs 88 HP, that's actually pretty relevant.

Lolth, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, worshipped as a goddess by one of the oldest and most powerful races on the planet...

66hp (or was it 60?). Either way, ouch.

Considering her demonic resistances, immunities and Magic Resistance, the wizards really were better off clearing away the mobs of spiders, rhagodessas and pedipalps, and throwing the Fighter at her.

now THATS what im talkin about!

it was stated that 5% or Sandpoint happens to be of Shoanti origins so I just made it were a beloved relative lived in Sandpoint. This also could lead to the relative opening up the eyes of the younger, prejudiced Shoanti PC by showing that race and nationality aside, Sandpoint is a very wonderful place

gnomes +2 CON +2 INT -2 STR favored class bard and wizard

halfling +2 DEX +2CHA -2 STR favored class rogue and bard

(GNOMES WERE ALWAYS ILLUSIONIST BEFORE 3RD ED F*&KED THEM INTO UNPLAYABILITY, play baldurs gate or baldurs gate 2 to see some real gnomes at work, 1st and 2nd ed gnomes rocked)

nuff said

I would also like to see specifically FIGHTER ONLY feats that did effects much like "K" described in a previous post (mimicking some of the more realistic arcane effects)

such as a blinding slash: Fighter level 3rd, improved Feint, combat expertise, you may strike a foe in such a way as to blind them. make a attack roll, if successful roll damage at a -2 (minimum 1 damage), the foe has to then make a Fortitude save (DC=10+1/2fighterlevel+Str)if the foe fails he is permanently blinded
normal: you suffer a -4 to your attack roll and draw an attack of opportunity

here here, maybe CN and the diety of adventurers, and thrill seekers, good either way^^

i greatly prefer getting stupid with archery damage, and slowing it way the f$%k down. the fact that first level archers can get two attacks doing equal damage at a range, while the fastest melee character can get two attacks, one doing significantly less damage, and have to be rooted mostly to one spot. sure an archer has to be rooted in one place to get multiple attacks, having a "reach" of a few hundred feat more than pays for it.

now im comparing one of the most effective damage dealing attack options with one of the least (-sneak attack or other more nontraditional options)
and im a bit off topic so i digress. the point is the speed, a bow is not a machine gun, its just as fast as a crossbow in the real world (I own one of each) it should have the same reload speed as a crossbow, maybe a tad faster due to not having to crank it (why the heck is it so easy to pull out arrows, but daggers friggin come out of their sheaths so slooooowwly) quick draw should apply to rearming crossbows and bows as well as other weapons.

now on the positive spectrum, arrows should have good armor piercing ability, and the only good resistance to arrows happen to be shields. this could be illustrated simply by giving them better damage (when it hits armor doesnt block much of the impact, if DR armor rules are use, just ingore up to a certain amount of damage, its the same thing) and give shields early access to an arrow blocking feat or feat progression. my long bow would look like this

Longbow Dmg 2d6 range 60ft* crit 20x3 move action to reload (remember, this is the reload time of someone who is merely proficient)
* you gain a bonus to range equal to a reflexive spot check)

I am well aware that this is to much of a change for this game, I simply wish to speak my view

I like it but I think if you simplify it just a tad it will fit nicely in a side bar. I would divide hitpoints into thirds

100%-66% no penalty
65%-33% -1 to all rolls and to armor class
32%-0 -3 to all rolls and to armor class

certain feats could negate all or parts of this penalty if only for a number of rounds (dramatic adrenaline is nice) movement may decrease by 10ft when below 32% hitpoints. It could be negated if someone uses an aid another action to help limp the character out of harms way.(this second part is just fun flavor add-on)

DR being a part of armor is a very important issue. I will support builds that adds DR to standard armors

I love it but i do see some small glitches

The cleric has more opportunity to have at will, 30ft blasty abilities.
solution: give the elemental domains a at will ability to either, craft a elemental melee weapon which does 1d6 +1 elemental damage (+1 every two levels, or allow them to give their weapon a +1 elemental damage with a additional +1 every five levels (lets keep the auto blasty to the arcane folk, k?)

The conjurer, not the abjurer has a armor ability. look I know that mage armor is conjuration and shield is abjuration, maybe they need swapping ( I summon forth a magic shield or I weave an abjuration ward to protect my body)
solution: give the Abjurer the Conjurers armor specialty bonus and swap out their 1st level 10ft armor buff for a 10ft 5 point resistance buff that last as long as concentration is maintained (10 points at 10th level). give the conjurer a specialty bonus such as a +2 to the strength and Constitution of summoned entities, as well a a +1 to caster level for all conjuration durations. its really what conjurers and abjurers want to do

The Invokers Specialty bonus is a touch weak
solution: simply allow their bonus damage to add to their at will Fire Ray, its okay for the Invoker to have a slightly mightier at will ability, it breaks nothing (as far as I see)

Gnomes, Halflings and Elves stats and favored classes. are not living up to the thematics that people are asking for
solution: Gnomes and halflings need to swap intelligence and charisma. first, we dont need two core races being dexterity intelligence primary. secondly Gnomes need favored class Wizard, or preferably Illusionist specifically. 3.0 and 3.5 nearly killed our gnomish friends and we need to look back at the healthier times of tricksy Gnomish Illusionist. Half elf and Orc got beefed, no love for the Gnome? anyways Halfing rogues will still be a prefered rogue race even if the elf has traditionally better rogue stats ( a bonus to charisma makes them better feinters and actually having favored class in rogue give them a +2 hitpoint bump per level over their Elven counterparts.)
elves are a touchy subject so this is said lightly, I prefer for elves to gain +2 dex +2Cha -2 Con. and have favored class being sorcerer. they should be blessed with natural magic, and have easy access to fey heritage abilities. this is not as necessarily of a issue, Elves are not my strongest point. (I know if I had my way I would have negated my previous rant about two similar stat builds, I would argue for elves to have +2 to their wisdom, but that has had no real presence on the message boards)

more to come...