The Scroll Thaumaturge feat has the line: You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica. Drawing esoterica from what I understand is a free action, and while the Second Implement class ability refers to free action swapping of implements, that doesn't directly carry over to esoterica. Does that line imply Thaumaturges with the feat can as a free action draw scrolls, or does it only mean that they don't need a free hand to draw/use a scroll? At my table we've been ruling it functions like a free draw, but I'm wondering if there was a misunderstanding. Any feedback is appreciated - and if anyone knows of an official developer word on the issue, even more appreciated!
I was hoping to switch out my PFS character's bo staff to one that is cold iron. Is there any reason why a weapon normally made of wood couldn't be made of cold iron/silver/mithril etc? The flavor text of the bo-staff has no mention of wood: This strong but slender staff is tapered at the ends and well balanced. It’s designed to be an offensive and defensive weapon. A normal staff does: This long piece of wood can aid in walking and deliver a mighty blow. I understand in a home game that it would likely be allowed, but is there any RAW reason this wouldn't be possible?
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Unfortunately there is a Lost Omens background I want to use, but good advice nonetheless, thank you!
Just wanted to chime in saying I appreciate that the OP team is making a greater effort to communicate about sanctioning delays and empathize with being understaffed. I also very much agree with Saint Bernard de Clairveaux that a certain flexibility in the manner in which the sanctioning updates are made until tech issues are sorted out would have been/would be greatly appreciated by the lot of us who have been deeply disappointed by not being able to use the content we purchased in OP. I've mentioned it before in another thread, but I stopped playing PFS when I realized I couldn't use the published material... I had my beloved character all ready to hit level 2, and with Lost Omen content I wanted to incorporate before I was locked into my choices. I don't want to play multiple characters at this point, so there wasn't really much else for me to do. I ended up skipping the gaming convention I was going to play in because of the sanctioning delays, and after weeks turned to months of delays, I ended up putting all of my PF2 books in the garage and pursued other TTRPGs. Yet I still keep on coming back to the forums about once a month hoping that an update will be made. Hopefully this month is the month - PF2 is an amazing system, with extremely talented designers and thoughtful supporting staff, and I do hope to get back into it once this is all sorted out.
Just to chime in - I was really enjoying PFS2e gameplay before I realized that the awesome new content they were releasing wasn’t something I’d get to play with in a timely fashion. Now I’ve pulled back from playing entirely, and am on the fence about cancelling my subscription to PF2e because of it. I paid ludicrous shipping costs for early access to the books, loved reading them, then felt nothing but disappointment that I’d need to find a home game if I wanted to play it. So those who are frustrated here are not alone. I understand Paizo OP is understaffed, but I feel it really is in their best interest to find a way to let people play their fabulous new content near release. The PFS players I’ve had the honor of playing with are wonderful, but I just can’t find myself to make it down to the PFS venue when I’ve been so inspired to try out some new character concept and I cannot because of additional resources delays.
whew wrote: If their goal is to maximize the number of disgruntled players, then that is what they should do. You're right, I underestimated how much of an impact that would have on the community. I still hope they can figure out a method where the sanctioning team can review the contents of a new book before release, and make what they deem proper legal on the release date.
I would prefer that content will be legal at release, and then banned if it needs to be down the road. I don’t normally buy physical books, the only reason I subscribed was to get the content a bit earlier. But if I can’t use the content, then I would just wait until the content was sanctioned and only buy the PDFs when they are sanctioned. Hopefully there are enough people like myself who feel this way that Paizo dedicates the resources necessary to make the content be available sooner - ideally at release, as there is no reason I can fathom that the decision makers not receive PDFs of the content well before release, so they can review and decide and print their decisions the release date.
Thanks for the information everyone. I was hoping to play a pregen and apply the experience to the character, but it looks like if I play a level 1 pregen I can only apply it to a level 1 character. So retraining or postponing play are my options - I think I’ll have a second character prepped in case the additional resources page doesn’t get updated by Monday! Spending 14 of 16 days of downtime after two sessions to retrain isn’t terrible either, agreed. But it would be nice if I could avoid it!
Does anyone know how long it usually takes to have a new books content be legal for PFS play? I have a PF2e character that just hit level 2, and plan on playing him at a convention this weekend. I'm hoping to use the Pathfinder Agent Dedication feat and Godless Healing feat on him, but I noticed that the Society Character Option page has not been updated yet to allow for Lost Omens World Guide content. Anyone have any advice for how I should proceed? Better to play a pregen instead of my beloved character to be on the safe side, or just ask the GM at the convention if he'll allow it?
The latest PFS guide allows one instance of Masterwork Transformation per character. Thanks for the note on the Burglar's Buckler... could be useful if I choose the non-monk route for sure. Great ideas for the tactics Pharmalade! Losing out on the +4 from the daredevil bard and the lore warden fighter seems rough, although there is the +Wisdom modifier bonus 1/round and the ki fueled reroll, and AC would take a hit vs the monk. 18 Dex and 16 Wis would have the monk at a base of 19 that's harder to upgrade, whereas the bard/fighter would be able to get the 18 Dex with a chain shirt and a heavy darkwood shield with dodge and shield focus... without enchantments, that's a constant 22 with the cheap armor/shield enhancements bringing it to 24 for $2k. Although the monk could benefit from losing a feat (maybe Weapon Finesse, as he'd pretty much only be using maneuvers anyway) for the human racial substitute for an extra +2 to a stat (in this case Wisdom). Monk 7 would have 8 select-able feats (plus Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist) compared to the bard 4/fighter 3's 7 select-able feats (plus Combat Expertise). They'd both have Agile Maneuvers, Weapon Finesse, Improved Dirty Trick, Dodge, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved (Trip or Disarm)and Combat Reflexes, and the fighter would have Shield Focus on top of those. For maneuvers, the monk would have full 7 BAB (+5 normal) compared to the +6/+1 BAB of the fighter bard. The monk would be at -4 to Dirty Trick, but would be able to get the +3 or +4 back through the as a swift action once per round. Seems like a toss up.
I really like the flavor of the Dirty Trick combat maneuver, and was hoping to know all my options for optimizing it for PFS play to blind foes for multiple rounds. Here's what I've got so far: 18 in Str or Dex (w/ Agile Maneuvers) for +4 (20 in a stat isn't effective at 1st level)
By level 6, +2 stat belt for another +1 to maneuvers (4000gp)
That's all I've got, planned to level 7 as a Dex based bard 4/fighter 3. With all of that, he'll have a +23 for Dirty Trick (+24 if the judge allows the masterwork enhancement to work which isn't RAW), +15 to all other maneuvers without further modification. Anything I missed? Would a maneuver master monk be better or something else?
I've read that you can use a double weapon in one hand and only use from one side of it (from the weapons page on the SRD: A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round). So, theoretically, could I have a character with a quarterstaff in one hand and a shield in the other? This isn't for arcane bond and the annoyance of the word "wield", but for a cleric of Nethys with the Magic domain who wants to throw his staff around Wis mod+3 times per day while still benefiting from a shield via Hand of the Acolyte. Anyone know if this is legit, or if it may have problems arise in PFS play? I know I could just use a club, but for thematic reasons I want a quarterstaff - each side of the staff will be carved differently to represent the dual positive/negative nature of Nethys.
I've run a search for all of your answers in regards to Celestial Servant - thanks for answering them all, those responses cleared up a lot for me. A couple things that are ambiguous that haven't been asked yet - for the Celestial template, it grants "Smite Evil" and gives a very condensed description of what that does. Is this paraphrasing the Paladin's Smite Evil ability and is meant to act exactly like that, or is this a whole different same named Smite Evil that only adds Charisma to attack and HD to damage, without the DR bypassing and one time 2xHD bonus damage vs undead/evil dragons/evil outsiders and the Charisma to AC bonus of the Paladin ability? Also, from the Celestial template, how do you apply the SR - it's supposed to be CR+5, but animal companions don't have a CR. Is it effective druid level (potentially modified by Boon Companion/Huntmaster), the companion's HD, or something else?
James Jacobs rules that this isn't the case. I'm going to ask him about the SR thing though, and see if I can get him to comment on the smite evil thing too.
I'm worried that Stand Still wouldn't trigger much as not a lot of DMs threaten AoO by moving if they can avoid it. Seems that Step Up for all of those 5' stepping casters and archers might be pretty awesome. And Power Attack is always useful. Hard to pick a situational vs an always on ability. Compared to large trip attackers, I'm hoping the crazy +7 Dex mod balances out somewhat the -2 size difference. I did forget that weapon finesse applies to trip attacks. If I don't go for Stand Still, I could swap Agile Maneuvers out for something. Maybe have Step Up and Following Step early. What about the difficult terrain bypassing feats? Any good?
The entry is abbreviated compared to other templates. It could very well be an entirely different ability as most seem to think, or it could be the same ability paraphrased. I'm leaning towards it being different than a paladins smite, but official word would be nice as there is some ambiguity. I know there was the issue with hide in plain sight different between two classes, when the intent was for them to be the same (FAQ'd I think) - this might have just been a carry over from 3.5 as was that issue. @Nerfherder - That makes sense in regards to SR, and in a home game I'd go with that. Wondering what official rules would be for PFS. I'd probably get yelled at for posting this rules question in the PFS forum though, as these rulings shouldn't be different between organized play and home games short of house rules.
I've always wanted to play a character with a small black panther animal companion, and I'm finally getting it worked out. I realize that big cats are optimal for damage, wolves for trip, rocs for awesomeness... but would what I've got together/planned be viable for PFS play? I'd also like a double check on my numbers to make sure I didn't mess anything up. The human druid has the Eye for Talent racial ability instead of a bonus feat, to give it a 4 Int and know every trick possible - as well as learn to understand Common via Linguistics. For the 1st level feat, he's got the new ARG Huntmaster feat to have his cat count as one level higher, 3rd level the APG Racial Heritage (Aasimar) feat, 5th level the Celestial Servant feat - applying the Celestial Template to the cat. Also, when the cat has a chance to advance, I'd like to keep him small (granting a +2 Dex/Con instead of the growth to medium). I started a thread here in regards to the SR of a Celestial Servant animal companion (as well as the smite evil ambiguity). I was tempted to have the intelligent cat take Additional Traits to get a religion trait (Blade of Mercy, slashing weapons deal subdual +1 damage), but I'm going to guess most DMs will veto an animal worshipping a goddess. Any suggestions for the level 6 builds third feat? I'm torn between Power Attack->Furious Focus, Combat Reflexes->Stand Still and Step Up->Following Step. Eldritch Claws seems like a good idea for it's 5th feat at level 10 (level 9 Huntmaster druid). Here's the build as a 3rd level companion (technically level 2 druid due to Huntmaster):
3rd level small cat:
Small Cat 3HD
low light vision, scent, evasion, link, share spells HP 16 (4.5x3 +3) Speed 50 Str 13
AC: 10+2 armor+6 Dex+3 natural+1 size= 22
Attacks:+2 BAB+6 Dex+1 Size= +9
CMB: 2 BAB+6 Dex-1 Size=+7
Tricks: all (3x4 Int=12+2 bonus=14 tricks, only 12+1 for attack all exist) Feats:
Skills:
Equipment:
Here's the build as a 6th level companion with Celestial (technically a 5th level druid)
6th level small cat: Small Cat 6HD
low light vision, scent, evasion, link, share spells, devotion, darkvision 60', smite evil 1/day HP 45 (4.5x6 +18) Speed 50 Str 14
AC: 10+4 armor+7 Dex+5 natural+1 size= 27
Attacks:+4 BAB+7 Dex+1 Size= +12
CMB: 4 BAB+7 Dex-1 Size=+10
Tricks: all (3x4 Int=12+3 bonus=15 tricks, only 12+1 for attack-all exist) Feats:
Skills:
Equipment:
I'm building a druid with Celestial Servant from the ARG, and I came up with an issue with applying the Celestial Template. It says the affected creature gains SR equal to the creature's CR+5. What's the CR of an animal companion? I know, I know, they don't have a CR... class features don't have CR. So what to do? I'd like this in a PFS game, so a ruling that works there is particularly important. Might be FAQ worthy - I think it is. It would also be wonderful to get a dev comment on the whole celestial/fiendish template smite evil ability and if it functions like the paladins ability. I've scoured through the forums, and no official word could I find. Seems like player consensus is that it does not, but considering it's a simple abbreviated template instead of a full one like half-celestial, it might be an oversight. Probably not, but would be great for PFS games to have official word.
An idea popped into my head for a character that boosts a party's ability to flank enemies for PFS play. It starts with 4 levels of Freebooter Ranger for Freebooter's Bane (+2 to flank bonus for all allies within 30' for the encounter as a move action). Then take 3 levels of Holy Tactician Paladin for Battlefield Presence (standard action, grant all allies within 30' a teamwork feat for the encounter as a standard action). Coupled with the Outflank feat and a menacing weapon, you end up granting all allies a +6 bonus when they flank vs the standard +2, or a +8 if you are adjacent to the enemy with your menacing weapon. It should all stack, as Outflank changes the bonus from +2 to +4, but Freebooter's Bane and menacing both just boost it by +2 instead of replacing it. And if you are being cheesy you could potentially try and get away with using two menacing weapons for a +10 bonus, but that is far too controversial (same source ambiguity) for a PFS game. Any other ways of making flanking for your allies even better?
Technically, normal light is a condition other than bright light, even if they share similar mechanics. Just because normal light functions like bright light, doesn't make it equal to bright light. The ability would say "in any condition of illumination other than bright and normal light" if it meant that, I believe. So the eidolon would have his 50% miss chance in normal light. You step outside into the sunlight, however, and it shoots down to 20%. I think the reasoning is that in bright light, shadows don't really exist, whereas in normal light they do.
I'm looking for suggestions on debuffing/buffing feats and ranger/bard spells for wands, if anyone has a moment to help! I'm playing a level 2 PFS bard/ranger build now, and for my own sanity I'm locking myself in to my choice of future progression so I can stop obsessing about it. No dipping or deviating, no other archetypes. Within these constraints I want to maximize my potential to buff allies and debuff enemies. The build:
I've already got the Bodyguard/Helpful trait combo for +4 to adjacent allies against adjacent enemies against 5 attacks/round, and Freebooter's Bane for a +1 for all allies attack and damage (+2 at 6th and +3 at 11th). I plan on using the Blade of Mercy/Enforcer combo for free demoralize attempts at 3rd. With Freebooter's Bond, I'll also use a menacing weapon quality to give allies a total of +6 whenever they flank with me around. Then Dazzling Display at 5th for AoO. But at 7th, 9th, and 11th I had feats that only helped myself (Shatter Defenses, Improved Critical, Critical Focus) because I couldn't find good support feats. Gory Finish looked good, but I'll be doing nonlethal damage primarily for Enforcer, and that means that not many enemies I touch will be at negative hit points before they go unconscious. I'm too stupid for Combat Expertise (yeah, I know about Lore Warden, no dipping!!) and thus combat maneuver feats, so that's a wash. Skill Focus (Intimidate) maybe? Spell wise, Blistering Invective (yay bard list) for a wand sounds amazing - 1d10 fire damage and demoralize all in 30' as a standard action instead of a full round, and there's a very small chance they'll catch on fire (DC 13 I think). When ranger spells are granted, I was thinking Liberating Command as a good one to prepare. Any suggestions on feats or spells I've missed that I can do with my existing feats and spells? There must be some form of debuff outside of combat maneuvers and demoralize that I'm missing, or some feat I can use to provide allies with some sort of bonus or protection I've overlooked.
@Killsmith: Not closely, it would seem - I didn't notice the swift action part when I was first looking at it. It doesn't synergize well with Saving Shield, but it would work with Covering Defense, and with Bodyguard. With Archon Diversion (not Justice), it could work too. Although reading up on shield bashes, that's another controversial topic that I wouldn't want to get myself stuck with (shield bash as off -hand even if it's your only attack/weapon, inability to use shield bash at all without major penalties as a single weapon without Two Weapon Fighting feat... frustrating).
@Chris Pacificon in Santa Clara, CA @galahad2112: Ah - the bit about total defense not working with Bodyguard, that's good information I hadn't thought of. But the real aggrivation in regards to power I saw was in regards to the extra AC bonus (up to +7 with Shield Focus and a +5 quickdraw shield eventually, or +2 to start with a +1 shield) and the fact that a Str build could switch between one handed and two handed combat (nothing to do with my build). Yeah, but with that in mind Covering Defense wouldn't be worth it at all. I'd need a +3 shield with shield focus for it to exceed the +4 from bodyguard I'd be losing, and it would only work on one target and require a standard action. Bodyguard would work to defend against up to 5 attacks per round with my character's current Dex, but I need to be adjacent to both ally and foe instead of just ally. It wasn't a very practical choice - Saving Shield still would have been nice for those without shield bonuses though, as of course the shield bonus would have been for my front-line character's survivabilty. Also, your first suggestion was actually the plan - although with Dazzling Display at 5th so as to benefit from Enforcer immediately. Cleave was my backup. I think I might dip into Urban Barbarian at 3rd, and then go all Ranger the rest for the Dazzling Display/Shattering Defense combo. Lots of fun options!
@Grick and @Chris Mortika: Thank you both. People get so riled up and so accusatory, it's great to hear a more calm and rational side to things, and not assumptions that my intent was at all negative. I didn't start his thread to gauge if I could get away with some horrible exploit. I started the thread to see if my idea was legal and had the potential to make the game less enjoyable for myself (for having a GM shut me down) and others (those who hate "cheese"). I'm new to organized games/PFS (5 games total), and I'm about to go to my first gaming convention after always playing in home games. It is really fascinating (and horrifying) how negative people get when people have a play style they disagree with. But that's the reality of the situation, not for all but for some, and the knowledge has made ma a tad more conservative in character planning. Which, really, isn't a problem. I totally agree - a GM shutting me down wouldn't be a jerk, unless he did it out of malice. If he did it to make the game more fun for everyone involved (including himself), that's totally great and I respect that. On the same note, it doesn't make me a jerk for trying to creatively cook up a somewhat odd miss-mash concept that requires some optimization to even function well. If I did cook up the concept to dominate the game, to ruin the challenge level, or to piss someone off - that would make me a jerk. I would also be a jerk if the character had the negative results regardless of intent, yet I still wanted to play him as-is. Team RPGs exist so that we all share the limelight - I want to enable others to survive and make them more effective, because they'll have more fun and I'll have more fun. And I will do so, in a way that's less controversial!
That is an awesome one - unfortunately I'm playing a freebooter, so I don't have favored enemy which Infiltrator is tied to. But I do get to swap out favored terrain for the Shapeshifter archetype, which just requires I take the natural combat style (which works for weapon users, as you can choose weapon focus and the two vital strike feats). My dervish bard/range fights with his scimitar as if it were a natural weapon (or will once I get those feats)!
For those new people who won't read the full thread - I have determined that the build I was using wouldn't be ideal for PFS play because it has a good chance of annoying players or GMs. No need to convince me further. However, I don't think the moderators/forum designers goal of putting the "don't be a jerk" rule so visably was to have everyone call those with a different style of play a jerk. It has been excessive in this thread. It is not being a jerk to be an optimizer - unless you overshadow the other players or make the adventure unchallenging in a way that negatively impacts the other players. Perspective, please. My concept was not overpowered, but yes, it bypassed a limitation of a fighting style (Dex melee) so that I could play a second style normally reserved for Str-based characters (shield fighting). Therefore many call it cheese. A label that is practically meaningless. To some it just means silly fun, others it means it breaks the enjoyment of the game. Regardless, no need to wag your fingers at me for a concept outside the norm, that is less effective than the traditional sword and board fighter concept I find utterly boring. I was trying to create an optimal protector that used Dex over Str. That's all. I wasn't intending to ruin anyone's enjoyment of the game - playing a character focused on helping other characters survive melee combat and giving some buffs/debuffs doesn't hurt anyone. For everyone spouting RAI, what about a player's intentions? I think that should be important likewise.
@Diego: Even the action to retrieve the shield from transport position seems ambiguous. By RAW, it could be interpreted just as well that the shield, so long as it is not packed in a bag and is hanging off of ones pack or belt or back, only takes a move action to ready. Your interpretation makes sense, but it isn't clearly stated anywhere in the core rules, or spelled out in a FAQ that I know of. And I'm not arguing with you, only saying that it's something that people could easily contest in PFS, and it doesn't seem like it's worth dealing with. Even the stowing the shield=AoO doesn't seem like it would be universally accepted (a shield can be considered a weapon, but is also a special case because it's more than just a weapon). We could argue it all day and night, and until someone official comes by it would just be wasted breath in regards to having it work seamlessly in PFS. @Gilgimesh: Thank you. The character is already level 2, about to hit level 3 (where I was going to get Quickdraw for this combo). I like the Sarenrae flavor I've got, I just also wanted to be the best protector I could be. The rapier with weapon finesse and a MW buckler or a darkwood heavy shield would have worked, true. It's a good idea, but I'd have also had to wait awhile to afford the equivalent of a +2 magic weapon in PFS to deal decent damage without Str for that Agile enhancement.
On a related note, could the same be said about the Trapper ranger? While yes, it does alter the class skill and provide trapfinding, the first ability it replaces is at 5th level. Could the same be said about the Trapper archetype, in that it could be taken after 1st level so long as it is taken at 5th or before?
By RAW, it is somewhat ambiguous that you need two move actions to don and ready. As far as I can tell, most interpretations say that those are synonymous terms, where a move action is all it takes to have your shield from where it lies on your back to being usable in your hands. And then with the AoO for slapping the shield back on your back... enh, there's too much room for fighting about it. I'll take the easy way out, and do as I said - abandon the plan. This sort of thing would only work in home games reliably, if carefully evaluated as to the ramifications to the particular campaign and player makeup. I see no reason to subject myself to the shield-using feasibility of my character being questioned everytime I get a new GM. No thank you, I'll play RAI and save shield use for the burly types.
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