Kobold

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Organized Play Member. 77 posts (95 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters.


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Scarab Sages

breithauptclan wrote:
Scroll Thaumaturgy just gives the ability to draw a scroll in a hand occupied with an Implement like Esoterica has. It doesn't make drawing the scroll a part of the action of using it.

Thank you for the detailed analysis on this - that makes sense to me!

Scarab Sages

The Scroll Thaumaturge feat has the line: You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.

Drawing esoterica from what I understand is a free action, and while the Second Implement class ability refers to free action swapping of implements, that doesn't directly carry over to esoterica.

Does that line imply Thaumaturges with the feat can as a free action draw scrolls, or does it only mean that they don't need a free hand to draw/use a scroll? At my table we've been ruling it functions like a free draw, but I'm wondering if there was a misunderstanding.

Any feedback is appreciated - and if anyone knows of an official developer word on the issue, even more appreciated!

Scarab Sages

I did find precedent for a metal staff in 2e - the Staff of Transmutation.

The staff, club, and greatclub all reference wood in their descriptions. The bo staff does not. I suppose spending 48GP with the caveat some GMs may not allow it probably isn't the worst thing in the world.

Scarab Sages

I was hoping to switch out my PFS character's bo staff to one that is cold iron. Is there any reason why a weapon normally made of wood couldn't be made of cold iron/silver/mithril etc?

The flavor text of the bo-staff has no mention of wood: This strong but slender staff is tapered at the ends and well balanced. It’s designed to be an offensive and defensive weapon.

A normal staff does: This long piece of wood can aid in walking and deliver a mighty blow.

I understand in a home game that it would likely be allowed, but is there any RAW reason this wouldn't be possible?

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you so much for getting this sanctioning document put together and shared!!! Looking forward to getting back into PFS2 with the content of the awesome Lost Omen books I purchased! Sanctioning the gods book early was such an awesome decision!

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just wanted to chime in to say I'd also appreciate developer commentary/errata on this. I really want to play a non-magical medic, and hope a Battle Medic build doesn't get nerf'd by errata down the road.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I hope they are able to get the new hire processed quickly, and make their goal of sanctioning materials by the end of the month. Thanks for sharing the blog post here.

Scarab Sages

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I'm as annoyed as anyone at the slowness of this process. But have you looked at the retraining rules? It's a lot easier to pick up stuff from new books on an existing character in PFS2 than it was in PFS1 or Starfinder.

It doesn't work for everything (notably, heritages and backgrounds), but maybe it works for the specific things you most wanted to use?

Unfortunately there is a Lost Omens background I want to use, but good advice nonetheless, thank you!

Scarab Sages

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Just wanted to chime in saying I appreciate that the OP team is making a greater effort to communicate about sanctioning delays and empathize with being understaffed.

I also very much agree with Saint Bernard de Clairveaux that a certain flexibility in the manner in which the sanctioning updates are made until tech issues are sorted out would have been/would be greatly appreciated by the lot of us who have been deeply disappointed by not being able to use the content we purchased in OP.

I've mentioned it before in another thread, but I stopped playing PFS when I realized I couldn't use the published material... I had my beloved character all ready to hit level 2, and with Lost Omen content I wanted to incorporate before I was locked into my choices. I don't want to play multiple characters at this point, so there wasn't really much else for me to do. I ended up skipping the gaming convention I was going to play in because of the sanctioning delays, and after weeks turned to months of delays, I ended up putting all of my PF2 books in the garage and pursued other TTRPGs.

Yet I still keep on coming back to the forums about once a month hoping that an update will be made. Hopefully this month is the month - PF2 is an amazing system, with extremely talented designers and thoughtful supporting staff, and I do hope to get back into it once this is all sorted out.

Scarab Sages

8 people marked this as a favorite.

Just to chime in - I was really enjoying PFS2e gameplay before I realized that the awesome new content they were releasing wasn’t something I’d get to play with in a timely fashion. Now I’ve pulled back from playing entirely, and am on the fence about cancelling my subscription to PF2e because of it. I paid ludicrous shipping costs for early access to the books, loved reading them, then felt nothing but disappointment that I’d need to find a home game if I wanted to play it. So those who are frustrated here are not alone. I understand Paizo OP is understaffed, but I feel it really is in their best interest to find a way to let people play their fabulous new content near release. The PFS players I’ve had the honor of playing with are wonderful, but I just can’t find myself to make it down to the PFS venue when I’ve been so inspired to try out some new character concept and I cannot because of additional resources delays.

Scarab Sages

whew wrote:
If their goal is to maximize the number of disgruntled players, then that is what they should do.

You're right, I underestimated how much of an impact that would have on the community. I still hope they can figure out a method where the sanctioning team can review the contents of a new book before release, and make what they deem proper legal on the release date.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would prefer that content will be legal at release, and then banned if it needs to be down the road. I don’t normally buy physical books, the only reason I subscribed was to get the content a bit earlier. But if I can’t use the content, then I would just wait until the content was sanctioned and only buy the PDFs when they are sanctioned. Hopefully there are enough people like myself who feel this way that Paizo dedicates the resources necessary to make the content be available sooner - ideally at release, as there is no reason I can fathom that the decision makers not receive PDFs of the content well before release, so they can review and decide and print their decisions the release date.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Six months? Wow, that sounds terrible!! I certainly hope that will change. I’ll give it a couple weeks, then I’ll probably cancel my book subscriptions if I can’t use the new material in PFS in a timely fashion, since that’s all I’m playing right now.

Scarab Sages

Thanks for the information everyone. I was hoping to play a pregen and apply the experience to the character, but it looks like if I play a level 1 pregen I can only apply it to a level 1 character. So retraining or postponing play are my options - I think I’ll have a second character prepped in case the additional resources page doesn’t get updated by Monday!

Spending 14 of 16 days of downtime after two sessions to retrain isn’t terrible either, agreed. But it would be nice if I could avoid it!

Scarab Sages

Thanks Rob! Is just not selecting 2nd level feats even an option? Essentially leaving them blank until the Character Options are updated?

Scarab Sages

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to have a new books content be legal for PFS play? I have a PF2e character that just hit level 2, and plan on playing him at a convention this weekend. I'm hoping to use the Pathfinder Agent Dedication feat and Godless Healing feat on him, but I noticed that the Society Character Option page has not been updated yet to allow for Lost Omens World Guide content.

Anyone have any advice for how I should proceed? Better to play a pregen instead of my beloved character to be on the safe side, or just ask the GM at the convention if he'll allow it?

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I like the changes to Brutal Shove from the playtest version! Thanks for the blog!

Scarab Sages

@blackbloodtroll - I thought I'd either go for whip for the bard/fighter, or something with the trip or disarm ability. For a monk, maybe a quarterstaff.

@prototype00 - Awesome, thank you! Exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

I'll look at the net... thanks!

Scarab Sages

The latest PFS guide allows one instance of Masterwork Transformation per character.

Thanks for the note on the Burglar's Buckler... could be useful if I choose the non-monk route for sure. Great ideas for the tactics Pharmalade!

Losing out on the +4 from the daredevil bard and the lore warden fighter seems rough, although there is the +Wisdom modifier bonus 1/round and the ki fueled reroll, and AC would take a hit vs the monk. 18 Dex and 16 Wis would have the monk at a base of 19 that's harder to upgrade, whereas the bard/fighter would be able to get the 18 Dex with a chain shirt and a heavy darkwood shield with dodge and shield focus... without enchantments, that's a constant 22 with the cheap armor/shield enhancements bringing it to 24 for $2k. Although the monk could benefit from losing a feat (maybe Weapon Finesse, as he'd pretty much only be using maneuvers anyway) for the human racial substitute for an extra +2 to a stat (in this case Wisdom).

Monk 7 would have 8 select-able feats (plus Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist) compared to the bard 4/fighter 3's 7 select-able feats (plus Combat Expertise).

They'd both have Agile Maneuvers, Weapon Finesse, Improved Dirty Trick, Dodge, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved (Trip or Disarm)and Combat Reflexes, and the fighter would have Shield Focus on top of those.

For maneuvers, the monk would have full 7 BAB (+5 normal) compared to the +6/+1 BAB of the fighter bard. The monk would be at -4 to Dirty Trick, but would be able to get the +3 or +4 back through the as a swift action once per round. Seems like a toss up.

Scarab Sages

I really like the flavor of the Dirty Trick combat maneuver, and was hoping to know all my options for optimizing it for PFS play to blind foes for multiple rounds. Here's what I've got so far:

18 in Str or Dex (w/ Agile Maneuvers) for +4 (20 in a stat isn't effective at 1st level)
Shoanti Race Trait for +1 to manuevers/Intimdate
Heirloom Weapon Trait for +2 to Dirty Trick when wielding that specific weapon (with the masterwork transformation spell to allow it to be magical later on)
Improved Dirty Trick for +2
Greater Dirty Trick for +2
Lore Warden Fighter level 3 for +2 to all maneuvers (Cad archetype gives +3 by level 10 I know, and a free trick at level 7, so its a maybe)
Daredevil Bard level 2 for +2 to Dirty Trick

By level 6, +2 stat belt for another +1 to maneuvers (4000gp)
Ioun stone for insight to AC+wayfinder for +1 to maneuvers (5250gp)

That's all I've got, planned to level 7 as a Dex based bard 4/fighter 3. With all of that, he'll have a +23 for Dirty Trick (+24 if the judge allows the masterwork enhancement to work which isn't RAW), +15 to all other maneuvers without further modification.

Anything I missed? Would a maneuver master monk be better or something else?

Scarab Sages

Thank you!

Scarab Sages

I've read that you can use a double weapon in one hand and only use from one side of it (from the weapons page on the SRD: A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round). So, theoretically, could I have a character with a quarterstaff in one hand and a shield in the other?

This isn't for arcane bond and the annoyance of the word "wield", but for a cleric of Nethys with the Magic domain who wants to throw his staff around Wis mod+3 times per day while still benefiting from a shield via Hand of the Acolyte.

Anyone know if this is legit, or if it may have problems arise in PFS play? I know I could just use a club, but for thematic reasons I want a quarterstaff - each side of the staff will be carved differently to represent the dual positive/negative nature of Nethys.

Scarab Sages

Just wanted to say thank you for answering my questions!! It's amazing you take the time to answer all of our never-ending inquiries, and I really appreciate it.

Now to leave off without bugging you about rules: what is your favorite Armageddon/cataclysm scenario for Golarion?

Scarab Sages

Thanks blackbloodtroll, that helps! This feat seems to have a fair amount of confusion around it.

Scarab Sages

I've run a search for all of your answers in regards to Celestial Servant - thanks for answering them all, those responses cleared up a lot for me.

A couple things that are ambiguous that haven't been asked yet - for the Celestial template, it grants "Smite Evil" and gives a very condensed description of what that does. Is this paraphrasing the Paladin's Smite Evil ability and is meant to act exactly like that, or is this a whole different same named Smite Evil that only adds Charisma to attack and HD to damage, without the DR bypassing and one time 2xHD bonus damage vs undead/evil dragons/evil outsiders and the Charisma to AC bonus of the Paladin ability?

Also, from the Celestial template, how do you apply the SR - it's supposed to be CR+5, but animal companions don't have a CR. Is it effective druid level (potentially modified by Boon Companion/Huntmaster), the companion's HD, or something else?

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs rules that this isn't the case. I'm going to ask him about the SR thing though, and see if I can get him to comment on the smite evil thing too.

Scarab Sages

Wow, if you are right blackbloodtroll, and you change out the rules for animal companions to follow magical beast instead - that means that not only does it gain a full BAB, vs 3/4, but it also gains d10 HP instead of d8 HP. Has this been brought up anywhere before?

Scarab Sages

I'm worried that Stand Still wouldn't trigger much as not a lot of DMs threaten AoO by moving if they can avoid it. Seems that Step Up for all of those 5' stepping casters and archers might be pretty awesome. And Power Attack is always useful. Hard to pick a situational vs an always on ability.

Compared to large trip attackers, I'm hoping the crazy +7 Dex mod balances out somewhat the -2 size difference.

I did forget that weapon finesse applies to trip attacks. If I don't go for Stand Still, I could swap Agile Maneuvers out for something. Maybe have Step Up and Following Step early. What about the difficult terrain bypassing feats? Any good?

Scarab Sages

The entry is abbreviated compared to other templates. It could very well be an entirely different ability as most seem to think, or it could be the same ability paraphrased. I'm leaning towards it being different than a paladins smite, but official word would be nice as there is some ambiguity. I know there was the issue with hide in plain sight different between two classes, when the intent was for them to be the same (FAQ'd I think) - this might have just been a carry over from 3.5 as was that issue.

@Nerfherder - That makes sense in regards to SR, and in a home game I'd go with that. Wondering what official rules would be for PFS. I'd probably get yelled at for posting this rules question in the PFS forum though, as these rulings shouldn't be different between organized play and home games short of house rules.

Scarab Sages

I've always wanted to play a character with a small black panther animal companion, and I'm finally getting it worked out. I realize that big cats are optimal for damage, wolves for trip, rocs for awesomeness... but would what I've got together/planned be viable for PFS play? I'd also like a double check on my numbers to make sure I didn't mess anything up.

The human druid has the Eye for Talent racial ability instead of a bonus feat, to give it a 4 Int and know every trick possible - as well as learn to understand Common via Linguistics. For the 1st level feat, he's got the new ARG Huntmaster feat to have his cat count as one level higher, 3rd level the APG Racial Heritage (Aasimar) feat, 5th level the Celestial Servant feat - applying the Celestial Template to the cat. Also, when the cat has a chance to advance, I'd like to keep him small (granting a +2 Dex/Con instead of the growth to medium).

I started a thread here in regards to the SR of a Celestial Servant animal companion (as well as the smite evil ambiguity).

I was tempted to have the intelligent cat take Additional Traits to get a religion trait (Blade of Mercy, slashing weapons deal subdual +1 damage), but I'm going to guess most DMs will veto an animal worshipping a goddess. Any suggestions for the level 6 builds third feat? I'm torn between Power Attack->Furious Focus, Combat Reflexes->Stand Still and Step Up->Following Step. Eldritch Claws seems like a good idea for it's 5th feat at level 10 (level 9 Huntmaster druid).

Here's the build as a 3rd level companion (technically level 2 druid due to Huntmaster):

3rd level small cat:
Small Cat 3HD
low light vision, scent, evasion, link, share spells
HP 16 (4.5x3 +3)
Speed 50

Str 13
Dex 22
Con 13
Int 4
Wis 12
Cha 6

AC: 10+2 armor+6 Dex+3 natural+1 size= 22
Touch AC: 17
Flatfooted AC: 16
Saves: +4 Fort/+9 Reflex/+2 Will

Attacks:+2 BAB+6 Dex+1 Size= +9
+9 bite/+9 claw/+9 claw
1d4+1 and trip +7/1d2+1/1d2+1

CMB: 2 BAB+6 Dex-1 Size=+7
CMD: 10+2 BAB+6 Dex+1 Str-1 Size=18 or 22 vs trip

Tricks: all (3x4 Int=12+2 bonus=14 tricks, only 12+1 for attack all exist)

Feats:
Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers

Skills:
Acrobatics 1 rank+3 trained+6 Dex=+10
Survival 1 rank+3 trained+1 Wis=+5
Linguistics-Common 1 rank-3 Int=-2
Perception 0 ranks+1 Wis=+1 (+9 with scent)
Stealth 0 ranks+6 Dex+4 size=+10

Equipment:
Leather Barding (20gp; 7.5lbs)
Training harness (20gp; 5lbs) [ARG]

Here's the build as a 6th level companion with Celestial (technically a 5th level druid)

6th level small cat:
Small Cat 6HD
low light vision, scent, evasion, link, share spells, devotion, darkvision 60', smite evil 1/day
HP 45 (4.5x6 +18)
Speed 50

Str 14
Dex 25 (+2 advancement at level 4)
Con 16 (+1 at level 4) (+2 advancement at level 4)
Int 4
Wis 12
Cha 6

AC: 10+4 armor+7 Dex+5 natural+1 size= 27
Touch AC: 18
Flatfooted AC: 20
Saves: +8 Fort/+11 Reflex/+3 (+7 vs enchantment) Will
DR 5/evil
Resist Cold, Acid, and Electricity 10

Attacks:+4 BAB+7 Dex+1 Size= +12
+12 bite/+12 claw/+12 claw
1d4+7 and trip +10/1d2+7/1d2+7
Power Attack (-2 attack, +4 damage to all attacks)
smite evil 1/day +6 damage

CMB: 4 BAB+7 Dex-1 Size=+10
CMD: 10+4 BAB+7 Dex+2 Str-1 Size=22 or 26 vs trip

Tricks: all (3x4 Int=12+3 bonus=15 tricks, only 12+1 for attack-all exist)

Feats:
Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, Power Attack

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 rank+3 trained+7 Dex=+14
Survival 1 rank+3 trained+1 Wis=+5
Linguistics-Common 1 rank-3 Int=-2
Perception 0 ranks+1 Wis=+1 (+9 with scent)
Stealth 0 ranks+7 Dex+4 size=+11

Equipment:
+1 Darkleaf Cloth Studded Leather Barding (Small, non humanoid) +3 AC (+1 enhancement), 0 ACP, 7 Max Dex (2550gp; 5lbs)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile) (5000gp)
Training harness (20gp; 5lbs) [ARG]

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm building a druid with Celestial Servant from the ARG, and I came up with an issue with applying the Celestial Template. It says the affected creature gains SR equal to the creature's CR+5. What's the CR of an animal companion? I know, I know, they don't have a CR... class features don't have CR. So what to do? I'd like this in a PFS game, so a ruling that works there is particularly important. Might be FAQ worthy - I think it is.

It would also be wonderful to get a dev comment on the whole celestial/fiendish template smite evil ability and if it functions like the paladins ability. I've scoured through the forums, and no official word could I find. Seems like player consensus is that it does not, but considering it's a simple abbreviated template instead of a full one like half-celestial, it might be an oversight. Probably not, but would be great for PFS games to have official word.

Scarab Sages

That's a good idea, could be coupled with a ranger wand of summon nature's ally - although you're already using a standard and a move action on your first round to activate your flanking bonuses, so having your second round involve a full round casting (even with a wand) would be a bit rough!

Scarab Sages

An idea popped into my head for a character that boosts a party's ability to flank enemies for PFS play.

It starts with 4 levels of Freebooter Ranger for Freebooter's Bane (+2 to flank bonus for all allies within 30' for the encounter as a move action). Then take 3 levels of Holy Tactician Paladin for Battlefield Presence (standard action, grant all allies within 30' a teamwork feat for the encounter as a standard action). Coupled with the Outflank feat and a menacing weapon, you end up granting all allies a +6 bonus when they flank vs the standard +2, or a +8 if you are adjacent to the enemy with your menacing weapon.

It should all stack, as Outflank changes the bonus from +2 to +4, but Freebooter's Bane and menacing both just boost it by +2 instead of replacing it. And if you are being cheesy you could potentially try and get away with using two menacing weapons for a +10 bonus, but that is far too controversial (same source ambiguity) for a PFS game.

Any other ways of making flanking for your allies even better?

Scarab Sages

Considering how many d20pfsrd tabs I have open in my browser right now, there really is no excuse. I assumed (and we all know that does) that the PFSFG wasn't OGC. I will slap myself on the wrist on your behalf, Exalted Dispenser of the d20pfsrd.com.

Scarab Sages

There's one in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide - a journal that costs 10gp an weighs 1 pound. It only has 50 pages though.

Scarab Sages

Technically, normal light is a condition other than bright light, even if they share similar mechanics. Just because normal light functions like bright light, doesn't make it equal to bright light. The ability would say "in any condition of illumination other than bright and normal light" if it meant that, I believe.

So the eidolon would have his 50% miss chance in normal light. You step outside into the sunlight, however, and it shoots down to 20%. I think the reasoning is that in bright light, shadows don't really exist, whereas in normal light they do.

Scarab Sages

I'm looking for suggestions on debuffing/buffing feats and ranger/bard spells for wands, if anyone has a moment to help! I'm playing a level 2 PFS bard/ranger build now, and for my own sanity I'm locking myself in to my choice of future progression so I can stop obsessing about it. No dipping or deviating, no other archetypes. Within these constraints I want to maximize my potential to buff allies and debuff enemies.

The build:
Currently Dawnflower Dervish 1/Freebooter Shapeshifter Ranger 1 (to 11)
Stats: Str 12/Dex 18/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 11/Cha 12 (raising Dex)
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard (racial bonus), Dervish Dance (class bonus)
Combat Style (Natural Weapons): Weapon Focus at Ranger 2, Vital Strike at Ranger 6, Improved Vital Strike at Ranger 10
Future feats: 3rd: Enforcer ; 5th: Dazzling Display; 7th:? ; 9th? ; 11th?

I've already got the Bodyguard/Helpful trait combo for +4 to adjacent allies against adjacent enemies against 5 attacks/round, and Freebooter's Bane for a +1 for all allies attack and damage (+2 at 6th and +3 at 11th). I plan on using the Blade of Mercy/Enforcer combo for free demoralize attempts at 3rd. With Freebooter's Bond, I'll also use a menacing weapon quality to give allies a total of +6 whenever they flank with me around. Then Dazzling Display at 5th for AoO. But at 7th, 9th, and 11th I had feats that only helped myself (Shatter Defenses, Improved Critical, Critical Focus) because I couldn't find good support feats.

Gory Finish looked good, but I'll be doing nonlethal damage primarily for Enforcer, and that means that not many enemies I touch will be at negative hit points before they go unconscious. I'm too stupid for Combat Expertise (yeah, I know about Lore Warden, no dipping!!) and thus combat maneuver feats, so that's a wash. Skill Focus (Intimidate) maybe?

Spell wise, Blistering Invective (yay bard list) for a wand sounds amazing - 1d10 fire damage and demoralize all in 30' as a standard action instead of a full round, and there's a very small chance they'll catch on fire (DC 13 I think). When ranger spells are granted, I was thinking Liberating Command as a good one to prepare.

Any suggestions on feats or spells I've missed that I can do with my existing feats and spells? There must be some form of debuff outside of combat maneuvers and demoralize that I'm missing, or some feat I can use to provide allies with some sort of bonus or protection I've overlooked.

Scarab Sages

Sadly Shield Master has a BAB requirement of +11!! Ranger's can get it at level 6 though through their bonus feats.

Scarab Sages

@Killsmith:

Not closely, it would seem - I didn't notice the swift action part when I was first looking at it. It doesn't synergize well with Saving Shield, but it would work with Covering Defense, and with Bodyguard. With Archon Diversion (not Justice), it could work too. Although reading up on shield bashes, that's another controversial topic that I wouldn't want to get myself stuck with (shield bash as off -hand even if it's your only attack/weapon, inability to use shield bash at all without major penalties as a single weapon without Two Weapon Fighting feat... frustrating).

Scarab Sages

If you could take a vacation anywhere in the Inner Sea region of Golarion, where would you go?

Scarab Sages

@Chris

Pacificon in Santa Clara, CA

@galahad2112:

Ah - the bit about total defense not working with Bodyguard, that's good information I hadn't thought of. But the real aggrivation in regards to power I saw was in regards to the extra AC bonus (up to +7 with Shield Focus and a +5 quickdraw shield eventually, or +2 to start with a +1 shield) and the fact that a Str build could switch between one handed and two handed combat (nothing to do with my build).

Yeah, but with that in mind Covering Defense wouldn't be worth it at all. I'd need a +3 shield with shield focus for it to exceed the +4 from bodyguard I'd be losing, and it would only work on one target and require a standard action. Bodyguard would work to defend against up to 5 attacks per round with my character's current Dex, but I need to be adjacent to both ally and foe instead of just ally. It wasn't a very practical choice - Saving Shield still would have been nice for those without shield bonuses though, as of course the shield bonus would have been for my front-line character's survivabilty.

Also, your first suggestion was actually the plan - although with Dazzling Display at 5th so as to benefit from Enforcer immediately. Cleave was my backup. I think I might dip into Urban Barbarian at 3rd, and then go all Ranger the rest for the Dazzling Display/Shattering Defense combo. Lots of fun options!

Scarab Sages

@Grick and @Chris Mortika:

Thank you both. People get so riled up and so accusatory, it's great to hear a more calm and rational side to things, and not assumptions that my intent was at all negative.

I didn't start his thread to gauge if I could get away with some horrible exploit. I started the thread to see if my idea was legal and had the potential to make the game less enjoyable for myself (for having a GM shut me down) and others (those who hate "cheese"). I'm new to organized games/PFS (5 games total), and I'm about to go to my first gaming convention after always playing in home games. It is really fascinating (and horrifying) how negative people get when people have a play style they disagree with. But that's the reality of the situation, not for all but for some, and the knowledge has made ma a tad more conservative in character planning. Which, really, isn't a problem.

I totally agree - a GM shutting me down wouldn't be a jerk, unless he did it out of malice. If he did it to make the game more fun for everyone involved (including himself), that's totally great and I respect that. On the same note, it doesn't make me a jerk for trying to creatively cook up a somewhat odd miss-mash concept that requires some optimization to even function well. If I did cook up the concept to dominate the game, to ruin the challenge level, or to piss someone off - that would make me a jerk. I would also be a jerk if the character had the negative results regardless of intent, yet I still wanted to play him as-is. Team RPGs exist so that we all share the limelight - I want to enable others to survive and make them more effective, because they'll have more fun and I'll have more fun. And I will do so, in a way that's less controversial!

Scarab Sages

That is an awesome one - unfortunately I'm playing a freebooter, so I don't have favored enemy which Infiltrator is tied to. But I do get to swap out favored terrain for the Shapeshifter archetype, which just requires I take the natural combat style (which works for weapon users, as you can choose weapon focus and the two vital strike feats). My dervish bard/range fights with his scimitar as if it were a natural weapon (or will once I get those feats)!

Scarab Sages

Oh well - if I had known I could apply them all at once I would have. But I don't want to be accused of cheating, and I have used a ranger wand twice, so I won't apply the spell-replacing template. Thank you all for the feedback - Gravity Bow is pretty fun after all, I'll make the most of it!

Scarab Sages

For those new people who won't read the full thread - I have determined that the build I was using wouldn't be ideal for PFS play because it has a good chance of annoying players or GMs. No need to convince me further.

However, I don't think the moderators/forum designers goal of putting the "don't be a jerk" rule so visably was to have everyone call those with a different style of play a jerk. It has been excessive in this thread. It is not being a jerk to be an optimizer - unless you overshadow the other players or make the adventure unchallenging in a way that negatively impacts the other players. Perspective, please. My concept was not overpowered, but yes, it bypassed a limitation of a fighting style (Dex melee) so that I could play a second style normally reserved for Str-based characters (shield fighting). Therefore many call it cheese. A label that is practically meaningless. To some it just means silly fun, others it means it breaks the enjoyment of the game.

Regardless, no need to wag your fingers at me for a concept outside the norm, that is less effective than the traditional sword and board fighter concept I find utterly boring. I was trying to create an optimal protector that used Dex over Str. That's all. I wasn't intending to ruin anyone's enjoyment of the game - playing a character focused on helping other characters survive melee combat and giving some buffs/debuffs doesn't hurt anyone. For everyone spouting RAI, what about a player's intentions? I think that should be important likewise.

Scarab Sages

@Diego: Even the action to retrieve the shield from transport position seems ambiguous. By RAW, it could be interpreted just as well that the shield, so long as it is not packed in a bag and is hanging off of ones pack or belt or back, only takes a move action to ready. Your interpretation makes sense, but it isn't clearly stated anywhere in the core rules, or spelled out in a FAQ that I know of. And I'm not arguing with you, only saying that it's something that people could easily contest in PFS, and it doesn't seem like it's worth dealing with. Even the stowing the shield=AoO doesn't seem like it would be universally accepted (a shield can be considered a weapon, but is also a special case because it's more than just a weapon). We could argue it all day and night, and until someone official comes by it would just be wasted breath in regards to having it work seamlessly in PFS.

@Gilgimesh: Thank you. The character is already level 2, about to hit level 3 (where I was going to get Quickdraw for this combo). I like the Sarenrae flavor I've got, I just also wanted to be the best protector I could be. The rapier with weapon finesse and a MW buckler or a darkwood heavy shield would have worked, true. It's a good idea, but I'd have also had to wait awhile to afford the equivalent of a +2 magic weapon in PFS to deal decent damage without Str for that Agile enhancement.

Scarab Sages

On a related note, could the same be said about the Trapper ranger? While yes, it does alter the class skill and provide trapfinding, the first ability it replaces is at 5th level. Could the same be said about the Trapper archetype, in that it could be taken after 1st level so long as it is taken at 5th or before?

Scarab Sages

Sounds good, thanks!

Scarab Sages

By RAW, it is somewhat ambiguous that you need two move actions to don and ready. As far as I can tell, most interpretations say that those are synonymous terms, where a move action is all it takes to have your shield from where it lies on your back to being usable in your hands. And then with the AoO for slapping the shield back on your back... enh, there's too much room for fighting about it. I'll take the easy way out, and do as I said - abandon the plan. This sort of thing would only work in home games reliably, if carefully evaluated as to the ramifications to the particular campaign and player makeup. I see no reason to subject myself to the shield-using feasibility of my character being questioned everytime I get a new GM. No thank you, I'll play RAI and save shield use for the burly types.

Scarab Sages

I hope that's not the case, as I would have added it at 1st had I known. Maybe guide 4.2 will clarify archetypes more (including the language that seems to say you can start with only one archetype and add the others later so long as you haven't already acquired a modified/replaced class feature).

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