Starfinder Society Update: Year 4 Program Changes

Seriously quite fond of this goober of "I wanted to make basic melee soldier and started out with 17 strength at level 1 for some brilliant reason"

Excited about the ACP system!

Will you have boons for all the Starfinder PC races eventually? I noticed several playable race options from the various alien archives was missing from the ACP list.

Should I hold out for my Entu colony or just press on with plans for a Artiopi *Wink*

Will you have boons for all the Starfinder PC races eventually? I noticed several playable race options from the various alien archives was missing from the ACP list.

Not necessarily. Some are being held back for a number of reasons: lore or balance considerations are the two major ones, as well as some particularly enticing options that we're holding back for charity boons and the like. The boons that are listed right now are probably the final list for the launch, though we reserve the right to add/remove/change any at any time beforehand.

All I can say is that I see Dirindi on the list. Yay!

Hmm

When this all comes online, will the boon from "Star Sugar Heartlove" that reduce fame costs be able to be utilized?
If there is concern not to take away earned boons, then is there a way to have this be reworded?

When this all comes online, will the boon from "Star Sugar Heartlove" that reduce fame costs be able to be utilized?

If there is concern not to take away earned boons, then is there a way to have this be reworded?

As that boon deals specifically with Fame costs, I would say that once the Fame system goes away at the end of the year, that boon would no longer have any function. We're not necessarily looking to "reissue" any boons that don't work with the new system, because that will only increase confusion, but I'll make a note should we ever have to revisit that scenario for other reasons.

Yolo Blup-Putters wrote:

Will you have boons for all the Starfinder PC races eventually? I noticed several playable race options from the various alien archives was missing from the ACP list.

Not necessarily. Some are being held back for a number of reasons: lore or balance considerations are the two major ones, as well as some particularly enticing options that we're holding back for charity boons and the like. The boons that are listed right now are probably the final list for the launch, though we reserve the right to add/remove/change any at any time beforehand.

Thank you, that gives me a good idea of a time frame etc *Thumbs up*

Hey all, I have been trying to consider how to fairly turn fame into ACP. I was wondering if we could make it easy for leadership to just make a raw calculation based on what is recorded on the site -- XP. Yes, there are some scenarios that gave bonus fame but I think the simplest solution may just be calculating a percentage from games recorded, with the assumption that most people spend some fame along the way.

WHY DO WE NEED AN AUTOMATIC EXCHANGE RATE CONVERSION?

Several reasons:

1) Relying on players to type in their own unspent fame sucks.

I've kept spread sheets and can actually tell you how much fame I have spent on every character, and I think I would still find this a chore. My guess is that only the most motivated and informed GMs and players would do this, which would leave casual players out in the cold. This is the very group who has the least boons in the first place, and the group that we want to see most excited for the new ACP boons!

2) Let's just make this easier for our Tech Team to program in.

DO MOST PEOPLE SPEND THEIR FAME?

I know that I do, but I'm a former VC and a 4 Nova GM. I understand how the system works. I suspect that many players don't even look at fame boons, or spend on them unless there is something cool that they see another player using.

LOOKING AT MY OWN CHARACTERS

Charli Poshkettle has spent the most: she has faction boons, and had to be brought back from the dead, and has an elite hireling. She has spent half the fame over her entire career. This is an extreme case.

Many of my low level characters have spent very little fame, in part because they were trying to save up fame as insurance against death in case they meet Pharasma the way Charli did. The most common expenditures have been for hireling boons to shore up a weak skill, and faction boons -- especially for starships. Once characters get their 'death insurance' saved, we are talking about expenditures that ranged up to about 1/5th of their overall earnings as I have made an effort to really dig into faction boons once my characters have gotten to higher levels.

The 'Death Insurance' will become a joint pool of all my characters once we start accumulating ACP. So we won't need to worry about it as much -- once we get that first pile of 40 ACP together.

THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN CONVERTING FAME TO ACP.

So let's figure out what a fair conversion rate could be for ACP for games prior to PaizoCon. My assumptions:

Post-PaizoCon 2021 games

1 XP = 4 ACP for Players
1 XP = 8 ACP for GMs

Pre-PaizoCon 2021 games

1 Unspent Fame = 1 ACP
1 XP = 2 Fame (most of the time)

Because GMs were more likely to acquire RSP, OSP and Convention boons along the way, there is no special GM rate for this. This would value most pre-PaizoCon games at 50% of post PaizoCon games for players (and 25% for GMs.)

The tricky part is trying to guesstimate what an average fame spending rate would be -- and I am not sure that you can. Inexperienced players will have likely spent nothing. Experienced players and GMs like myself would have spent more.

IF I WERE DECIDING HOW THE CONVERSION WORKS

If I were doing this, I'm not sure that I would worry about whether Fame was spent or not. I'd rather that the casual players got their full deal out of the conversion than worry about the players who spent fame on boons. I would just have a straight pre-PaizoCon conversion rate of 1 XP to 2 ACP and call it done, with no regard to whether these games were GMed or merely played. This would still discount heavily the ACP that would go to hardcore GMs (because it is worth 25% of what they would get for the same game, post PaizoCon). As the hardcore GMs are the most likely group to have spent on Fame, I think that would work out.

If OPF Leadership is really concerned about discounting ACP based on average Fame spent, I would guesstimate that about 80% of Fame is unspent across all characters, and make the fame conversion this:

1 Pre-PaizoCon XP = (2 ACP x .8)

However, I still hold that it's better to go with:

1 Pre-PaizoCon XP = 2 ACP

Why? Easier to explain to casual players, faster to calculate, less likely to engender arguments from the base about whether they spent their fame or not. It provides a simple exchange rate and allows every Starfinder Player and GM a pool of ACP that is not dependent on them counting every fame, going back through all their boons and notes, and then entering a number into an ACP generator.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

This is my long-winded opinion. What's yours? What's the best way to convert ACP?

Hmm

It would give people who spent fame a fair bit of free stuff, on the other hand that might not be a bad thing for spending a year without boons.

I do wish to add that I went through a similar transition with a competitor's organized game a couple of years ago and felt cheated that I did not get any credit for my unspent points. I just like that the focus is on not penalizing the more casual users of the Fame/Boon system.

Some solid thinking there by HMM!

I definitely agree with it being simpler to just give everyone percentage from earned fame regardless of amount spent since more you have characters harder it is to figure out whether you have spent two points of fame in your first game ever four years ago to remove disease or something else that costs 2 fame points or if you just accidentally forgot to add 2 from one scenario :p

I have a question about previously purchased Instructor boon from Second Seekers Luwazi. It requires tracking fame earned. Will there be anyway to continue filling it out after the change?

My guess would be that it becomes useless:

Damian West wrote:

When this all comes online, will the boon from "Star Sugar Heartlove" that reduce fame costs be able to be utilized?

If there is concern not to take away earned boons, then is there a way to have this be reworded?

As that boon deals specifically with Fame costs, I would say that once the Fame system goes away at the end of the year, that boon would no longer have any function. We're not necessarily looking to "reissue" any boons that don't work with the new system

I have a question about previously purchased Instructor boon from Second Seekers Luwazi. It requires tracking fame earned. Will there be anyway to continue filling it out after the change?

+1! The hatchling is almost ready to sojourn on its own!

I expect it is a fairly easy fix, since there is now Instructor under Ehu-Hadif. Not having downloaded it, I can't say for sure... but I expect it now tracks reputation earned rather than fame? If so, a quick note somewhere (forum post or blog sentence, perhaps? ;) ) from The Powers That Be would be enough for those of us still diligently training the next generation of starfinders?

...

On a similar note, 'Uniter' lets 2S: LE treat tier 1 factions as tier 2. Will this still let you purchase boons that require Reputation of 15 under the new system?

...

On a final note, looks like 2S: LE is losing their capstone. (Not surprising, where it was all about fame). Is this being reworked, or Tier 3 the end of the line now that the society has moved on?

Thanks!

Having to start over with the instructor boon because of this change and because Organized play won't change one word (fame to reputation) would be a scream worthy problem.

I have a question about previously purchased Instructor boon from Second Seekers Luwazi. It requires tracking fame earned. Will there be anyway to continue filling it out after the change?

That's actually a really good question! Redgar is correct that Ehu's edition relies on Reputation but I hadn't thought about changing the old version. I will take a look at it post-PaizoCon when our brains are a little less scrambled.

On a similar note, 'Uniter' lets 2S: LE treat tier 1 factions as tier 2. Will this still let you purchase boons that require Reputation of 15 under the new system?

...

On a final note, looks like 2S: LE is losing their capstone. (Not surprising, where it was all about fame). Is this being reworked, or Tier 3 the end of the line now that the society has moved on?

Thanks!

Uniter: The system isn't smart enough to know that, so probably not, no. It would still work as you spend your remaining Fame, but won't work on any AcP boons. It would be nice for the system to let us do boons like that in the future and it's certainly on my feature request list, but it's not possible yet.

Luwazi Capstone: So right now there are some holes in the system where all factions are not created equal. Once we're out of con crunch I'm hoping we'll have a chance to take a look at filling some of those holes in the various Second Seekers (or at least affirming that yes, they won't get filled, rather than just leaving them empty unintentionally), but for right now, yeah, she won't have an AcP capstone.

Why am I now picturing a T-shirt that declares:

"Luwazi Elsebo kept the Starfinder Society TOGETHER and all she got was a lousy T-shirt..."

:>

I've been in SFS since the very beginning, but I really hate the complexities of changing the system mid-stream like this. It leads me more to the casual player's route of just enjoying the sessions, tracking XP & Credits, and forgetting about the whole Fame/Reputation/ACP system.

I've been in SFS since the very beginning, but I really hate the complexities of changing the system mid-stream like this. It leads me more to the casual player's route of just enjoying the sessions, tracking XP & Credits, and forgetting about the whole Fame/Reputation/ACP system.

That is a totally valid way to play, and something a lot of people have been asking for.

As it is now, you can just simply not worry about reputation, and let the reporting system track it for you. And only ever spend AcP if something comes up that appeals to you.

Just wanted to pop back in to say a big THANK YOU to The Powers That Be that changed "Fame" to "Reputation" in the Instructor boon in the Season 4 Guild Guide.

The Shirren Named Ed, and the Hatching-in-Training, appreciate your community-mindedness! :)

Unsure if this is the place to ask: I'm new to this whole Spacey-P / buying boons online thing, so apologies if this is a "known issue" or something for those familiar with the PFS2E side.

One of my characters meets all the requirements for a boon, and I can confirm that in the Sessions page. But when I try to buy the boon on the Boons tab, it says "That character does not meet the requirements for that boon."
What should I do? Do I ask here, or is there a Customer Service thread I should use, or a Website Feedback thread, or something else..?

Quick question. If I purchased a boon with fame before (Known Quantity, for instance) do I have to re-purchase them with AcP when the conversion happens, or doI just keep them, and the AcP cost will automatically be removed?

You get to keep it for free; you aren't charged or awarded any AcP for it.

Since the system is checking our reputation before allowing us to purchase boons, is there a way to make sure that we have accurate reputation counts for factions we did not slot other than sending an email for every issue (which I assume would be a lot more work for Paizo)?

For example, everyone who completed SFS #2-07 Four for the First should gain 4 reputation with Second Seekers (Ehu Hadif) for the For the Future First boon.

Since the system is checking our reputation before allowing us to purchase boons, is there a way to make sure that we have accurate reputation counts for factions we did not slot other than sending an email for every issue (which I assume would be a lot more work for Paizo)?

This is actually a fairly big problem.

I have been going through my characters, checking to make sure everything is reported/correct. I found one character who has gotten 4 reputation with SS:J as "bonus" reputation on chronicles (fulfilling Jadnura's conditions in four scenarios). I should have a total Reputation of 16 with Jadnura (12 from slotting his Faction Champion boon and 4 from those bonus conditions.) However the summary is only showing 14. I can look through the scenarios and see that the 12 regular rep is showing up properly. That means that on two of the four scenarios where I got bonus rep, it wasn't reported properly. But I have no idea which two and can't see that info.

The break between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is 15 Rep, so it's actually affecting what boons I can buy.

I think some of the jadnura scenarios may pre date the system having acquired the bonus rep check box which would allow the DM to enter that bonus rep.

What should I do? Do I ask here, or is there a Customer Service thread I should use, or a Website Feedback thread, or something else..?

I posted a thread HERE to hopefully consolidate everyone's observed errors in one place and make it easier for the Web Team to address them.

Honestly, I would be fine just dropping Fame and giving everyone a healthy one-time starting boost for Starfinder ACP.

Thanks for updating the Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) Instructor boon to work off of reputation instead of fame

Thanks for updating the Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) Instructor boon to work off of reputation instead of fame

I was just looking for this in "My Organized Play" and it seems this is now a Ehu Hadif boon, not a Luwazi Elsebo boon.

There are some other boons that don't appear to be available at all. Sponsorship and Shameless Sponsorship are two I noticed. Do we know if this is deliberate (boons were eliminated while transitioning to ACP) or did they just get missed?

So while reviewing one of my SFS characters today, I suddenly realized that credits for APs are a little weird.

My -709 character has all the credits for the Dawn of Flame AP on them. They are currently 6th level.

Since they are treated as pregen credit, the Fame I earned from #16-18 has not been applied to the character. They would give fame, but it is highly likely that by the time they apply fame will be obsolete.

I also have a GM blob with credits from a different AP where all the chronicles gave fame but I haven’t even defined the SFS society character yet.

How should these cases be handled?

Yeah saw this pop up and looking over my characters, I have tons of AP credit posted, but no points available to spend for some reason even though I have not spent any. Is there some thing that I have to do in order to get my stuff or does all my prestige and stuff not carry over?

@Noven

You should have gotten fame on anything played before May 28. The website does not track fame.

Everything on May 28th or later you should automatically accrue ACP. The website does track this and you should get it as soon as the game is reported on the site.