Advanced Class Guide

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Just a few weeks ago, we announced the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide, an exciting new addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game due out next summer. While we talked about it a fair bit at Gencon, this blog post is here to get you caught up on all the news!

This 256-page rulebook will contain 10 new classes, each a mix of two existing classes, taking a bit from each class and adding new mechanics to give you a unique character. Around the office we're calling them "hybrid classes." You can think of the magus (from Ultimate Magic) as our first test of this concept. It takes some rules from the fighter, some rules from the wizard, and then adds its own unique mechanics.

At this point, you're probably wondering what new classes you can expect to see in the Advanced Class Guide. So far, we've announced five of the ten classes.

Bloodrager: This blend of sorcerer and barbarian can call upon the power of his blood whenever he goes into a rage. He also has a limited selection of spells he can call upon, even when in a mindless fury!

Hunter: Taking powers from both the druid and the ranger, the hunter is never without her trusted animal companion, hunting down foes with lethal accuracy.

Shaman: Calling upon the spirits to aid her, the shaman draws upon class features of the oracle and the witch. Each day, she can commune with different spirits to aid her and her allies.

Slayer: Look at all the blood! The slayer blends the rogue and the ranger to create a character that is all about taking down particular targets.

Warpriest: Most religions have martial traditions, and warpriests are often the backbones of such orders. This mix of cleric and fighter can call upon the blessings of the gods to defeat enemies of their faiths.

Of course, those are just half the classes in this book. There are four more we have yet to reveal.

"Four?" you say. "But I thought there were ten!" And you would be right—because I'm about to let you in on another of the classes that will appear in this book, which we haven't announced until this moment!

Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).

But that's not all! This book will also contain archetypes for all 10 new classes, as well as a selection to help existing classes play with some of the new features in this book. There will also be feats and spells to support these new classes, as well as magic items that will undoubtedly become favorites for nearly any character. Last but not least, the final chapter in this book will give you a peek inside the design process for classes and archetypes, giving you plenty of tips and guides to build your own! Since class design is more art than science, this won't be a system (like in the Advanced Race Guide), but rather a chapter giving you advice on how the process works.

So, there you go. That's six of the 10 classes that will appear in the Advanced Class Guide and an overview of what else you can expect from this exciting new book. While it's due to release next August, you won't have to wait too long to get your hands on these classes, because we're planning to do a public playtest here this fall! Check back here for more news as the playtest draws close!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Liberty's Edge

Bloodrager (sorcerer/barbarian)
Hunter (druid/ranger)
Shaman (oracle/witch)
Slayer (rogue/ranger)
Warpriest (cleric/fighter)
Swashbuckler (fighter/gunslinger)
Arcanist(wizard/sorcerer)
Investigator (Rogue/Alchemist)
Brawler (Fighter/Monk)
Skald (Bard/Barbarian)


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Bob's OP, dude. He gets Wildshape (Cheeseweasel) at first level.


Still now Artificer :(


I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of bloodlines people choose for the Bloodrager...

Arcane: Bloodrager with a familiar? Hellz yeah!

Abyssal: CE demon-spawned tiefling bloodrager. The theme would fit perfectly, and he even gets +2 Str and Cha. It'd make a good villain for a Worldwound game.

Boreal: A brutal soldier of rage and frost. Would make for an excellent follower of Kostchtchie.

Celestial: CG Aasimar bloodrager, Azata or Angel born. A divine warrior of Elysium determined to strike out at the forces of evil and law.

Draconic: A red-dragon derived bloodrager, probably CN or CE. You might even qualify for Dragon Discipline.

Pestilence: He gets angry and makes people sick.

Protean: CN. A rampant, unpredictable berserker with the chaotic power of the Maelstrom coursing through his veins. Perfect!

Fey: Fairy-rager!

Orc: Excellent! It made no sense that a squishy spellcaster would use a physical power-themed bloodline, but this bloodline finally found it's class!

Stormborn: Thor. :D

Undead: Zombie-rager.

Verdant: As others have stated, TURN INTO A TREE!


The Larch


Zark wrote:
The Larch

The. Larch.


Axial wrote:

I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of bloodlines people choose for the Bloodrager...

Arcane: Bloodrager with a familiar? Hellz yeah!
Abyssal: CE demon-spawned tiefling bloodrager. The theme would fit perfectly, and he even gets +2 Str and Cha. It'd make a good villain for a Worldwound game.
Boreal: A brutal soldier of rage and frost. Would make for an excellent follower of Kostchtchie.
Celestial: CG Aasimar bloodrager, Azata or Angel born. A divine warrior of Elysium determined to strike out at the forces of evil and law.
Draconic: A red-dragon derived bloodrager, probably CN or CE. You might even qualify for Dragon Discipline.
Pestilence: He gets angry and makes people sick.
Protean: CN. A rampant, unpredictable berserker with the chaotic power of the Maelstrom coursing through his veins. Perfect!
Fey: Fairy-rager!
Orc: Excellent! It made no sense that a squishy spellcaster would use a physical power-themed bloodline, but this bloodline finally found it's class!
Stormborn: Thor. :D
Undead: Zombie-rager.
Verdant: As others have stated, TURN INTO A TREE!

Aberrant Bloodline - if your papa was a bear, and your mama was an owl, and you can't decide whether to hibernate or molt, you're going to have some issues.

Accursed Bloodline - grandma was an evil outsider hag, and you're still not over it.
Aquatic Bloodline - swirlies for all
Daemon Bloodline - eats souls and thrives on disaster and ruin? definitely thematic.
Deep Earth Bloodline - for that deep-down, down to the roots (cross-blooded verdant?) rage.
Destined Bloodline - born to be pissed.
Djinni Bloodline - definite Diva twist here. Djinni don't get enraged, they explode in a fit of pique
Draconic Bloodline - in honesty, this is the one for me.
Dreamspun Bloodline - you can't even dream about how torqued I am right now
Efreeti Bloodline - itty bitty living space
Elemental Bloodline - raging elementals.. i thought that was dragons
Infernal Bloodline - when are devils not enraged?
Maestro Bloodline - brutally metal
Marid Bloodline - infinite swirlies
Martyred Bloodline - I'm going to bleed all over you!
Oni Bloodline - more demonic-ness. Japanese style
Imperious Bloodline (Sorcerer; Human) - off with her head!
Kobold Bloodline (Sorcerer; Kobold) - junior dragon. cute. doesn't fit well with the crafty trappy-ness of the kobold line though
Rakshasa Bloodline - rampaging tigers, anyone?
Serpentine Bloodline - can't see this one. snakey is just not ragey
Shadow Bloodline - fade to black...
Shaitan Bloodline - more heavy-metal, stone cold evil outsider ragey-ness.
Starsoul Bloodline - rage comes in the cold, frosty, void-tainted variety as well

Serious questions - wildblooded and crossblooded bloodline types for the bloodrager? Inquiring minds..

I've been trying to find good mechanics for my shadow dragon dragon disciple - and a cross-blooded, wildblooded draconic umbral bloodline bloodrager would be just the thing.


Draconic Bloodline Bloodrager/Dragon Disciples are probably going to be a very real thing.

Orc Bloodline Bloodragers would be awesome.


Albatoonoe wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:

The Brawler is the class I am most interested in.

I've Multiclassed or Gestalted Fighters and monks together for years. I want the full BAB and the increasing unarmed damage.

The Monk is for a Wuxia style, the Brawler for Bruce Lee (Enter the Dragon) and other "down to earth" martial artists.

I love both archtypes but the second has been harder to make. I'm excited.

Okay, I have to disagree there. While I may not agree complete with the representation of mechanics, I see Bruce Lee as a Martial Artist monk. His ability comes with a lot of discipline and practice, which is what a monk is all about. Now, the Brawler is more like Andre the Giant or some giant bruiser.

That said, I'm excited too. *high five*

I see that. I was mostly talking abilities - we don't see Bruce run on grass tips and bamboo that is the hallmark of movies like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or Hero - those kind of things I associate with the traditional Monk Class.

The Brawler looks to me to be more Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Van Damme level of ability - phenomenal fighter, but not so much the mysticism. The discipline is there, just not the "supernatural" stuff.

I know I will love them both. :D


Rynjin wrote:

Draconic Bloodline Bloodrager/Dragon Disciples are probably going to be a very real thing.

Orc Bloodline Bloodragers would be awesome.

Oh my gosh that sounds amazing. Yes yes yes yes yes. Dragon Disciples can be actually good heh.


Orc Bloodline Bloodrager/Scarred Witch Doctors. Slightly MAD, but still...


I would say very mad. Hopping mad.

Although, since the orc bloodline isn't core...


Cheapy wrote:

I would say very mad. Hopping mad.

Although, since the orc bloodline isn't core...

What are you getting at, Master C? :)


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What I'm trying to say is that the Maestro bloodline would be hilarious, especially if the artistic qualities were due to some ballerina.


Heh. You just made it less clear. Sorry. :)

Ennnnnnyway, On the MCA thread I posited a Bard/Brawler - "Capoierdubsteparkourista". Should be pretty fun. Make it a Skald/Brawler and have troops of them like in Babylon AD or District 13.


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A ballerina maestro bloodline Bloodrager, this should be the iconic for the Bloodrager!

Fey bloodline bloodrager= the Lorax.


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She could even use that bladescarf as her weapon! Argh, someone who does art for Wayfinder, MAKE IT HAPPEN!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
utopia27 wrote:
Serpentine Bloodline - can't see this one. snakey is just not ragey

Clearly, you have never been chased down by a cottonmouth water moccasin. Believe me, rage suits them juuuuust fiiiiine.


Kryzbyn wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
A druid version of the inquisitor? 6 skill ranks, 6 spell levels, druidy spells, lots of nifty class features. Maybe wild shape at 1st level? Or some kind of lycanthropy rage-like buff?

Sounds kind of like a Norn Havroun from GW2...

That could be way cool!

Love you for this.

Ok. Been away a month or so. 620 new posts. Made it through the first 500. Worth it. Going to sleep now.
*cries with relief and tiredness*

Not sure if I just missed it (can't go on) but of the mentioning that you can't multiclass with rogue when you're a slayer, does that mean you can't multiclass slayer and investigator, for example? Because they both are rogue hybrids? If it was already asked/answered, I did my best, but I'm only human.

Still slightly sad that the slayer wasn't a shapeshifting avatar of the god of murder.


Rashagar wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
A druid version of the inquisitor? 6 skill ranks, 6 spell levels, druidy spells, lots of nifty class features. Maybe wild shape at 1st level? Or some kind of lycanthropy rage-like buff?

Sounds kind of like a Norn Havroun from GW2...

That could be way cool!

Love you for this.

Ok. Been away a month or so. 620 new posts. Made it through the first 500. Worth it. Going to sleep now.
*cries with relief and tiredness*

Not sure if I just missed it (can't go on) but of the mentioning that you can't multiclass with rogue when you're a slayer, does that mean you can't multiclass slayer and investigator, for example? Because they both are rogue hybrids? If it was already asked/answered, I did my best, but I'm only human.

Still slightly sad that the slayer wasn't a shapeshifting avatar of the god of murder.

About the multiclass thing, hybrid classes wiil count as alternate classes of both its parent classes, so multiclassing between then is illegal just like fighter/gunslinger, cavalier/samurai, and rogue/ninja.

Liberty's Edge

Gunslinger is not an alternate class of the fighter. You can multiclass between them just fine.


But it used to be, so any confusion is totally understandable!


Wait.. it's not an alternate class anymore? when did this happen?


Yeah. I'm confused about that too. I noted that there seemed to be a change, but only in the deep foggy recesses of my mind....

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, I find that confusion - I can understand ninja being basically the same as rogue, but it's harder to have a class that's considered to be two at once.

Wouldn't the, say Slayer, be different enough from their parent concepts (rogue and ranger) that you could multi-class fine with rogue or ranger?
Could you use archetypes from the parent concepts with these 'hybrid' classes?

Hm, I find it hard to put in words!

Grand Lodge

During the playtest it was changed to a stand-alone base class, and was published that way. It's nothing like the fighter. With rogues and ninjas, cavaliers and samurai, and paladins and anti-paladins there's a clear correlation of framework. Gunslingers and fighters just both have full BAB.

Grand Lodge

Theoretically, if one of the hybrids had all the necessary class abilities to be replaced by a parent class's archetype, it could use it, leading to the possibility of being able to simultaneously use archetypes from multiple classes without multiclassing. In reality, I'd guess this isn't likely to come up. Archetypes rarely replace the core class abilities of a class, and these hybrids are likely to have little other than core class abilities in common with their parent classes.

Shadow Lodge

So wait, these are counted as Alternate Classes? That doesn't sound good. The magus has flexibility, and while there would be no great loss if you could not take fighter of wizard levels, it would still hurt.

Grand Lodge

They're beginning the playtest as alternate classes. Jason has already admitted the possibility that, like the gunslinger before them, they won't survive the playtest that way. That's the great thing about a playtest, though: we get to find out what works and what doesn't before publication. If they are being hampered by being alternate classes, some or all of them could end up as stand-alone base classes.


redcapscorner wrote:
During the playtest it was changed to a stand-alone base class, and was published that way.

Thanks for the heads up.

Silver Crusade

When this goes live on Tuesday, will there be a separate place for each playtester to deliver their info? like say a special board posting for the shaman, slayer, etc.? or will it all be lumped together, or even "send in through email"? Does anyone know?


I believe the previous playtests were done in the format of a forum dedicated to it and then a sub-forum for each class.

So you'd have the "Advanced Class Guide Playtest" and then "Advanced Class Guide Playtest < Slayer" or whatever.

Silver Crusade

awesome, thanks. I'm thinking of trying out shaman. I have an idea for a group of skinwalker tribals for a game i'm writing and was thinking of using the new shaman, skald, and blood rager. but I wanna make sure the shaman can be creepy and strong at the same time. PFS speaking, what race should I try it out with? Human or HO?


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Edit:

You should use Core races.

Check out this excelent post by Cheapy:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le2a?Mythic-Adventures-Playtest#1

Even though written for the Mythic Adventures Playtest most of the stuff is valid.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wow, this thread is taking some reading :)

Interestingly - there is a Swashbuckler already in the PRD - an archetype of Rogue (scroll down this page to find it).

Be interesting to see how things will be indicated in modules etc if there is an existing archetype of the same name (I'm guessing it might be a case of "when you see Swashbuckler, from now on, refer the new class and not the archetype").


Cheapy wrote:
At this point, since we know all 10 classes, the chance of the 10th class being an alchemist bard are somewhat low.

The investigator sounds like alchemist/rogue/archeologist.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

As I catch up on all the discussions, a lot of referrals to archetypes are being made - so, here is a list of archetypes linking to the PRD pages they are on - so now when you refer to existing archetypes, you can find them to review them a bit quicker (it's complete to February 2013 - I must get around to checking new products and updating it at some time.)


Cheapy wrote:
She could even use that bladescarf as her weapon! Argh, someone who does art for Wayfinder, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Er, Cheapy, she's not a rager, BUUUUUT... *whistles innocently*


I know a lot of these races wouldn't be chosen for iconics but I like to see these iconics.

Bloodrager- male nagaji
Hunter- female catfolk
Shaman- male vanara
Slayer- male tengu
Arcanist- female samsaran
Brawler- male half-orc
Swashbuckler- female halfing
Investigator- male elf or half-elf
Skald- female goblin
Warpriest- female dwarf

Dark Archive

Scavion wrote:

My feelings on the matter.

Arcanist- Very interesting. +1 for a simple Arcane spellcaster, bonus points for wisdom based spellcasting. Would allow for better Mystic Theurges.
Bloodrager- Probably the coolest concept out of the bunch.
Brawler- I know some folks who are going to dig their teeth into this.
Investigator- Neat! Will definitely write one up.
Hunter- Teamwork feats kinda turn me off to the class.
Shaman- Meh. Good enough concept going for it. Don't care for it myself.
Slayer- Awesome. My personal favorite. Though I will really cry if they just give it a death attack and call it a day. Save or Dies are quite literally the least interesting effects in the game. Give me ability drain/damage in some super attack or a permanent stagger effect instead. Anything anything please no death attack.

DM: Alright the enemy uses his death attack on you. Save or Die. Die? Oh well.

Player: I death attack the BBEG! Yes! He failed!
DM: Gosh dangit to heck I worked hard on that.

Skald- I don't feel too excited by this one really. A *good* archetype would have served it better.

Swashbuckler- People have been crying for this. Hope it works out for them. I'm unlikely to play it, Slayer has my focus on this end.

Warpriest- Completely unnecessary. Between Battle Clerics, Paladins, and Inquisitors I see no reason to *need* a alignment neutral holy warrior. I honestly just think people don't want to go through the work of taking the one bloody fighter level that gets you martial proficiency for clerics/inquisitors. That said, I hope they get Lay on Hands and no smiting.

I am with you om the slayer. I really want this class to be good. If it wants to be god at killing, it really needs more than favored enemy or quarry, etc. sneak attack, and death attack. It needs to be able to make enemies paralyzed, unconcious, etc. so it can coup de grace, or it isn't really a slayer.

Dark Archive

Do we have any confirmation on how multiclassing works with these classes? If magus is a hybrid, there are no restrictions with it, so why should there be with these? Can you be a hunter/ranger, slayer/rogue, or monk/brawler?


Ah, and here's the GMing bug I've been missing for so long.
Now I just need to find a plot!

Reading Neil's info on the Shaman has made me so much more excited for that class than I was before, and it was already one of the most intriguing!

Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Feros wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?

Hawthorn, pretty flowers, covered in thorns.

I could see myself getting so angry that I turn to Ash.


I don't Magus is explicitly called out as a hybrid class, while these new ones are. So we'll have 3 categories of 20 level classes

Core Classes
Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc...

Base Classes
Magus, Inquisitor, Cavalier, ...

Hybrid Classes
Bloodrager, Warpriest, Swashbuckler, ...

While Magus is a conceptual mashup of Fighter and Wizard it doesn't share class features (aside from spell casting, but on it's own spell list) with either class, while these new classes will have class features explicitly taken from other base and core classes, although these features may be renamed and slightly reworked to make the class coherent.


Do we know at around what time the playtest document will go up tomorrow?

I'm kind of having trouble sitting still right now.

wegrata wrote:

I don't Magus is explicitly called out as a hybrid class, while these new ones are. So we'll have 3 categories of 20 level classes

Core Classes
Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc...

Base Classes
Magus, Inquisitor, Cavalier, ...

Hybrid Classes
Bloodrager, Warpriest, Swashbuckler, ...

While Magus is a conceptual mashup of Fighter and Wizard it doesn't share class features (aside from spell casting, but on it's own spell list) with either class, while these new classes will have class features explicitly taken from other base and core classes, although these features may be renamed and slightly reworked to make the class coherent.

Your first sentence doesn't make any sense to me, I think you missed a couple of words perhaps.

And what i actually wanted to say: If you count hybrids as a category of their own, there should be four categories, Core, Base, Hybrid and Variant (Antipaladin, Samurai, Ninja)

Shadow Lodge

Hmm. Coming up with a tiefling/Aasimar couple for me and my friend for PFS. I was thinking Lore Warden fighter, but I'll take a look at swashbuckler, see if they can use a greatsword.

Liberty's Edge

Ninjaxenomorph wrote:
Hmm. Coming up with a tiefling/Aasimar couple for me and my friend for PFS. I was thinking Lore Warden fighter, but I'll take a look at swashbuckler, see if they can use a greatsword.

I believe Neil Spicer's report from MACE said they would specialize in one-handed melee weapons, so they probably will be proficient, but it's probably going to be a pretty suboptimal choice.


Threeshades wrote:

Do we know at around what time the playtest document will go up tomorrow?

I'm kind of having trouble sitting still right now.

wegrata wrote:

I don't Magus is explicitly called out as a hybrid class, while these new ones are. So we'll have 3 categories of 20 level classes

Core Classes
Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc...

Base Classes
Magus, Inquisitor, Cavalier, ...

Hybrid Classes
Bloodrager, Warpriest, Swashbuckler, ...

While Magus is a conceptual mashup of Fighter and Wizard it doesn't share class features (aside from spell casting, but on it's own spell list) with either class, while these new classes will have class features explicitly taken from other base and core classes, although these features may be renamed and slightly reworked to make the class coherent.

Your first sentence doesn't make any sense to me, I think you missed a couple of words perhaps.

And what i actually wanted to say: If you count hybrids as a category of their own, there should be four categories, Core, Base, Hybrid and Variant (Antipaladin, Samurai, Ninja)

Sorry about that I should have been more clear in my first sentence. All I meant was that, while these new classes are being explicitly classified as Hybrid classes by the devs, the Magus wasn't classified as that in the blog or in Ultimate Magic. So restrictions being placed on multi-classing Hybrid classes wouldn't apply to the Magus. Sorry about the poor phrasing.

I also forgot about Alternate/Variant classes, but you're correct they should be a fourth category.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Rashagar wrote:

Ah, and here's the GMing bug I've been missing for so long.

Now I just need to find a plot!

Reading Neil's info on the Shaman has made me so much more excited for that class than I was before, and it was already one of the most intriguing!

Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Feros wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?

Hawthorn, pretty flowers, covered in thorns.

I could see myself getting so angry that I turn to Ash.

Chainsaw hands and shotguns would be kinda OP...

Dark Archive

wegrata wrote:

I don't Magus is explicitly called out as a hybrid class, while these new ones are. So we'll have 3 categories of 20 level classes

Core Classes
Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc...

Base Classes
Magus, Inquisitor, Cavalier, ...

Hybrid Classes
Bloodrager, Warpriest, Swashbuckler, ...

While Magus is a conceptual mashup of Fighter and Wizard it doesn't share class features (aside from spell casting, but on it's own spell list) with either class, while these new classes will have class features explicitly taken from other base and core classes, although these features may be renamed and slightly reworked to make the class coherent.

Don't forget alternate classes: ninja, samurai, and antipaladin.

Dark Archive

wegrata wrote:

I don't Magus is explicitly called out as a hybrid class, while these new ones are. So we'll have 3 categories of 20 level classes

Core Classes
Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc...

Base Classes
Magus, Inquisitor, Cavalier, ...

Hybrid Classes
Bloodrager, Warpriest, Swashbuckler, ...

While Magus is a conceptual mashup of Fighter and Wizard it doesn't share class features (aside from spell casting, but on it's own spell list) with either class, while these new classes will have class features explicitly taken from other base and core classes, although these features may be renamed and slightly reworked to make the class coherent.

I just recalled them saying something about the magus being the first hybrid class. I guess it is in concept but not officially. Like you said, it really only shares spellcasting with the wizard, and only from it's own spell list. I just hope the slayer lives up to it's name, and the brawler really needs to be changed to martial artist.

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