Mythic Adventures

HAHAHAHA!! Ya know what the Hierophant and Archmage sound like to me??

The Hierophant and Archmage from 3.5. What THE HELL PAIZO?!

I have a fair knowledge of 4e and seriously dude, I have no idea how you could possibly claim an Archmage sounds like a controller, when you know nothing about what abilities the Archmage will have.

Warden sounds like a defender huh? Well DUH!! Those words are synonymous with each other, at least in this respect. Also, a defender sounds like a Stalwart...

Just pointing out I know nothing about this book, and I'm not crying foul. When I read the description 4e jumped in my mind. When I was asked what reminded me of 4e, I said a few little things and proceeded to list them. With 5e in play-test it seemed like Paizo's could be adding in optional material that might be attractive to a 4e player, which would be smart on their part. Of course I have no proof of that and I even doubt the likelihood.

That's all my comment was, like I said I am most likely wrong.

Maybe they're just trying to make the game better and are experimenting with new, cool features.

They dont need to try and fit their game design to attract certain niche markets. Quality wins out in the end - polluting game design with marketting considerations would be a bad baseline, in my admittedly uninformed opinion.

I don't think that it is coincidence that this optional feature, that can radically change the game experience without changing the system (still backwards compatible), is announced at a time that WotC tinkers with 5e.

Strike of genius I'd say if this works out as intended.

Actually announcing at the same time as the 5e announcment is just coincidence since James had already hinted (via the medium of Haiku) on the ask James Jacobs thread somewhere between several months to a year ago.

I'll echo the whole "coincidence thing". Keep in mind that many products are in development at least a year in advance, with the ideas and groundwork for said projects being laid down prior to that. Even when they decide they want to do something "Now" they need to place it on the development schedule behind everything else which means it still usually doesn't get to us until two to three years later.

The Jade Regent AP was in the works since Paizo started selling Rise of the Runelords to give you an idea of how far back a product can begin to see generation. Now, that doesn't mean they can't come up with an idea and put out a product within a year and put it ahead of other products on the schedule. It's just that it's not very typical.

This is more than likely a case where they've been planning this for a couple of years and working on it for almost as long, but they weren't going to let us know until they felt the product (the "rules") was at a point where they had something to offer the public. You don't go marketing to your audience about your awesome stuff until you've got something concrete to put in the press release. Well, unless you're the dotcom industry.

It's very likely the genesis of Mythic rules stemmed from discussion on these boards and within the offices of Paizo long before 5e was ever announced or even hinted at. James Jacobs has been musing about it for years.

Short answer: yes, probably pure coincidence.

Monkeygod wrote:

HAHAHAHA!! Ya know what the Hierophant and Archmage sound like to me??

The Hierophant and Archmage from 3.5. What THE HELL PAIZO?!

I have a fair knowledge of 4e and seriously dude, I have no idea how you could possibly claim an Archmage sounds like a controller, when you know nothing about what abilities the Archmage will have.

Warden sounds like a defender huh? Well DUH!! Those words are synonymous with each other, at least in this respect. Also, a defender sounds like a Stalwart...

Just pointing out I know nothing about this book, and I'm not crying foul. When I read the description 4e jumped in my mind. When I was asked what reminded me of 4e, I said a few little things and proceeded to list them. With 5e in play-test it seemed like Paizo's could be adding in optional material that might be attractive to a 4e player, which would be smart on their part. Of course I have no proof of that and I even doubt the likelihood.

That's all my comment was, like I said I am most likely wrong.

"Monkeygod" was a bit rude in his retort, but I just wanted to pipe in and agree on your wanting "Epic" rules for Pathfinder. Mythic Adventures is interesting (and I'll probably buy it anyway), but I was really wanting a release date for some 21+ level rules. Don't like the Little Red Goblin rules and the old 3.0 ELH had always needed an overhaul (especially on Feats and Spell creation). I'll just keep hoping.

Count me in as one of the excited. There's a few things I'd really like to see in this: solutions to ability nerfing powers like Freedom of Movement, Evasion, Protection from Evil, Poison Immunity, and so forth. I'd be really excited to be able to throw Mythic versions of monsters that can overcome the standard ways that they're typically dealt with, forcing players to think on their feet.

If these rules will allow me to build Alex Mercer as a BBEG, then I'll be happy :)

Sine we're all giving opinions here, here's mine: extra pluses bore me, extra abilities interest me.

Also, I'd like a Q&A thread where I can ask the devs about what's known so I can start making things up in my head. :)

Also, I'd like a Q&A thread where I can ask the devs about what's known so I can start making things up in my head. :)

Wait a few weeks. End of September, early October is when the public play test begins.

-- david
Papa.DRB

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Get a bow. ;-)

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Since you don't get a second attack until level 6, and the assumption is you have half as many mythic tiers as class levels, the ability does you no good until tier 3 anyway. And the use really kicks in at tier 5 (about the time you get your 3rd attack).

Didn't we already do this?

For my part, I am glad that the designers don't try to "fix" anything with new add-on rules, because stealth patches are terrible design.

If something is really broken (and I'm not saying anything is or isn't), good designers would fix it openly so that new players don't have to cut through the jargon to play an effective character.

Fixing anything with a new rules release — be it an item for monks or a mythic template for fighters or anything like that — would not be fixing anything at all.

Didn't we already do this?

If it means anything, once you put out rules to make deities, I plan on buying your Epic Level handbook and using it along side Mythic Adventures to fight gods!

Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

Didn't we already do this?

If it means anything, once you put out rules to make deities, I plan on buying your Epic Level handbook and using it along side Mythic Adventures to fight gods!

Very little chance on that. I know at least JJ doesn't want the gods statted at all. I think demigod is about as far as that will go.

Sean - I received responses from 2 players about the playtest, with 4 more responding on Monday. I plan to either use our current campaign for 1d3 sessions to playtest Mythic Adventures or do a seperate session or two for those who wish to participate. I look forward to your playtest rules at the end of September, and plan to playtest in October.

So far, one player said all these layers of options feels a lot like 2nd edition. The other player ranted about how the GM doesn't get anything in return for substantial written feedback and recommended giving out vouchers for $40 in Paizo materials for thorough playtesting. He stated that getting to buy something early wasn't a good reward.

As for me, my only feedback so far is that, as a GM, I would like to use Mythic Adventures to create easier to create villains/end bosses/mythological creatures/foes.

Question: In addition to the ways presented on the PAIZO blog,can the system be used to allow non-mythic player characters fight a mythic foe? If so, will indeed reduce the pages of stat blocks associated with high level play, and make for an easier to use opponent for the PCs i.e. Mythic Kobold, Mythic Ettin, Mythic Medusa in the context of a regular Pathfinder RPG game?

In some ways I am reminded of 1st edition, when it didn't take a lot of stat block to confront a demi-god.

Good luck with compiling feedback, and please let me know if the rewards for thorough playtesting will go beyond the intrinsic ones. The player who provided the feedback indicated that, "yeah, very cool" and other shorter bits of feedback would not warrant such rewards.

Take care, and good talking with you at GENCON.
-Pax

*phew*

Stupid work expecting me to work and everything.

Wha, not gonna be rolling my +95 to hit against a Turbodragon's AC of 110? Bummer! ;-)

You will in my campaign :)

I hope 20 character levels + 10 Mythic tiers are not equivalent power-wise as a CR 30. I am actually hoping it is designed you can take on higher CRs (than 30).

I don't know that they'll have a strict numeric accounting, but I recall seeing somewhere that a single mythic tier would be roughly equivalent to two levels. So level 20 + tier 10 would be roughly CR40.

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

I see what your saying, but would another 10 levels hurt that bad really? I think it could be done with out breaking the system.

The system is already pretty bent at levels 16-20. Expanding the math beyond level 20 isn't going to make it unbent...

I'll keep you posted :)

But hell, the biggest part of getting high-level play to work is getting everyone to agree on the purpose. If someone's playing at a high level just to see how badly they can break the system, that's no different than sitting down at a Con game with a goal of making sure the party fails (I've been at tables like that).

So, sure, the math can get crazy ... but at some point the finicky bits of the math don't actually matter since the PCs are dealing with Bigger Issues than whether they need a +80 to hit.

Sometimes crazy is just plain fun.

I have to chime in and say I'm a little disappointed. I really would have liked to have epic level rules, and this sounds like a source book to add 4e elements to a pathfinder game. Likely to attract the now disenfranchised 4e players. Don't get me wrong it's a great idea on paizo's part why not get the 4e crowd who wont switch to 5e. But, I honestly wanted epic.

I don't know, Paizo is a great company and they managed to sell me on products I though I wouldn't like before so maybe I'm wrong.

See, I don't really agree. I think it's a masterful way to create a system that pleases people like me (who plan on cheerfully charging past level 20) as well as people who vastly prefer their personal sweet spot, whether it be level 5, or 9, or whatever.

For my part, mythic tiers will be something the PCs get access to after level 20. Or they might choose levels in prestige classes, or to take wizard to level 25, or what-have-you, but that will work just fine for me, and the GM who gives a level 5 PC a mythic artifact (Green Lantern, anyone?) for a short period of time will likely be just as happy.

Mutants & Masterminds has a mechanic which allows for "extraordinary" abilities/powers.

I think its called "extra effort/power stunt".

Basically, you can modify your power on the fly to achieve a new effect (a melee punching power might become a ranged attack for the encounter, or a super self healer might touch and regenerate his buddys severed arm, for examples), or gain an extra sort of result. A strong guy power might use extra effort to hold up a collapsing building for a short time, despite it being well out of his carry weight.

Afterwards, you are fatigued (a significant penalty in that game, almost like staggered) or have to spend a hero point to negate it.

Would yield the ability to "break the rules" a bit, and allows otherwise impotent characters a chance to significantly influence the encounter.

Right. This kind of thing is exactly what I'm looking for. My favorite part of the ELH stuff is the epic feats, and the way they can be combined to give cool powers. This is also what templates are good for; choose the proper template and/or feats, stir, and voila, a unique and interesting creature.

Hit dice advancement is pretty much just a mechanism to add hit points and feats from my point of view. So this mythic powers concept is right up my alley.

Odraude wrote:

Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

Didn't we already do this?

If it means anything, once you put out rules to make deities, I plan on buying your Epic Level handbook and using it along side Mythic Adventures to fight gods!

Very little chance on that. I know at least JJ doesn't want the gods statted at all. I think demigod is about as far as that will go.

True, but Little Red Goblin Games will be having stats for gods, which I'll be using!

deuxhero wrote:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Since you don't get a second attack until level 6, and the assumption is you have half as many mythic tiers as class levels, the ability does you no good until tier 3 anyway. And the use really kicks in at tier 5 (about the time you get your 3rd attack).

Unless you are

Justin Franklin wrote:

deuxhero wrote:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Since you don't get a second attack until level 6, and the assumption is you have half as many mythic tiers as class levels, the ability does you no good until tier 3 anyway. And the use really kicks in at tier 5 (about the time you get your 3rd attack).

Unless you are

1: Under haste (common buff)
2: A monk

3: Using 2 weapons

Wander Weir wrote:

As with all things, however, there's always a contingent of any population that won't be pleased with new developments. So far, it sounds like Mythic Adventures isn't going to be for me. That's okay though, and I'm still looking forward to seeing what the Playtest looks like.

I can respect that. Vast difference between "Not for me" and "Pathfinder is ruined".

Mythic Adventures is not going to be for everyone.

Nothing is.

Except oxygen, I'm pretty sure everyone wants oxygen.

Unless they're plant people...

Dude. We totally need oxygen at night. We swing both ways.

deuxhero wrote:

Justin Franklin wrote:

deuxhero wrote:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

Please tell me tier 1=top tier and the ability to not lose a large chunk of your offense is worth less than moving first with the potential to take another action.

edit: Further reading of thread says: No, it isn't.

Sigh. So much for nice things. Hopefully addressed after play test.

Since you don't get a second attack until level 6, and the assumption is you have half as many mythic tiers as class levels, the ability does you no good until tier 3 anyway. And the use really kicks in at tier 5 (about the time you get your 3rd attack).

Unless you are

1: Under haste (common buff)
2: A monk

3: Using 2 weapons

4: Using a bow with Rapid Shot, (Move is less important here, but sometimes necessary)

Of course with the 2nd tier mythic power you charge and then use a mythic power use to do a full attack on your normal initiative.

I just got done listening to the Podcast about Mythic Adventures and decided to record the revealed information here. Anything in quotes and texts I copied verbatim from the Podcast. I copied those verbatim because it sounded like it was being read from notes. Also, a lot of stuff had interjections and jokes thrown in, so I paraphrased. I did change all references of Mythic Levels to Mythic Tiers instead.

Universal Mythic Rules/Abilities

• Hard to Kill: ”Mythic characters automatically stabilize below 0 hit points without needing a Constitution check. Bleed damage still causes him to lose hit points. In addition Mythic characters die when their total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than double their Constitution score.”
  
• All Mythic characters have a flaw, a weakness that they try to hide. One example given is Vulnerable to Wood. ”Weapons primarily made of the selected material automatically confirm all critical hits and the critical multiplier is increased by 1 to a maximum of x4. If the character ever gains Damage Reduction, no matter the source, weapons primarily made of the selected material automatically bypass that Damage Reduction.”
  
• All Mythic characters get Mythic power that is tied to an ability score of their choice. Mythic power can be called upon a total number of times per day equal to their Mythic Tier plus their chosen ability score. Mythic Power is used power many Mythic abilities.
  
• Mythic Power can be used to add a die that increases in level (1d6 to 1d8 to 1d10 to 1d12). The result of the die can be added to any d20 roll after the result has been revealed.
  
• At second level, all Mythic characters get +20 to their initiative. When their turn is over, they can spend a point of Mythic Power to go again on their Initiative score -20.
  
• You can spend Mythic Power to negate conditions
  
• At the 9th Mythic Tier, Mythic characters become Immortal. “Whenever a Mythic character is killed, he automatically returns to life 24 hours later regardless of the condition of his body or the means by which he was killed. When he is returned to life he is not treated as if he has rested; does not regain any use of his abilities that would come with such rest. This ability does not apply if the Mythic character has Mythic damage in excess of half his total hit points at the time of his death.”
  
• Only Mythic characters can deal Mythic damage.
  
• Epic DR is the DR currency for Mythic characters.
  
• One can get Mythic Feats that are enhancements of existing feats that they must already have. One example is Mythic Arcane Strike: ”Whenever you use your Arcane Strike to imbue your weapons… they gain an additional +1 bonus to attack and damage. In addition if you spend one use of your Mythic Power you can also any one magic weapon special ability with a base price modifier of +1. This base price modifier increases by +1 for ever three Mythic Tiers you possess. Um…. and if you use your Mythic Power it lasts longer.”
  
• There are Mythic Spells that are enhancement to existing spells (though there will probably be all new spells). When a caster casts a spell, he has to know the Mythic version as well that is kept separately so Spontaneous casters aren’t screwed. At the time of casting, he can choose whether or not to put Mythic Power into the spell. One example is Mythic Fireball: ”The Fireball deals 1d10 points of damage per caster level up to a maximum of 10d10 points of damage. The spell also causes any creature that fails his saving throw to catch fire, taking 2d6 points of damage each round.” Another is Mythic Magic Missile, it deals more damage and bypasses Shield (”screw that spell”
  
• Mythic Tiers can be taken away or lost. The first hit is free.
  
• Generally speaking, Mythic Tiers are attained by Deeds. Every path has a list of Deeds but you only need to complete a few of them. Things that add to your legend or story. An example is Kill All The Dragons
  
• Greater Deeds are decided by the GM but can be completed individually or by the party/group
  
• Mythic Tiers are roughly assumed to be half your character level or CR
  
• Tenth Tier is a very special ability
  
• Mythic Tiers will give bonus hit points at every Tier
  
• Recuperation: Party can spend an hour and a Mythic Point to recover all Class abilities and up to half their total HP gets regained
  
• Mythic Cure Light Wounds cures 3d6 + twice Caster Level in HP plus 1 point of ability damage (”and it makes you taller”)

  Archmage Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Arcane Surge: ”Spend a point of his Mythic Power to cast an Arcane spell. He doesn’t have to have it prepared, doesn’t have to have… you know set. He can just, cast it. If the spell requires a saving throw, none-Mythic characters have to roll twice and take the worse result.”
  
• Meta-Master: ”He can spend one use of his Mythic Power as a Swift Action to pick one anyone Metamagic Feat he knows that increases the level of the spell by no more than one level; for the next 10 rounds he can apply this feat to all spells he casts.” This can be taken multiple times to increase the level increase of the Metamagic Feat chosen.
  
• Primarily based on Arcane magic but has some knowledge skills and stuff like re-rolling checks.
  
• Can spend Mythic Power to cast an extra spell

  Champion Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Precision Ability: Removes a -5 penalty to iterative attacks and can be taken multiple times to increase the penalty removes (taking it twice removes -10, taking it 3 times removes -15 etc).
  
• Can spend Mythic Power to make another attack as a Swift Action and can roll twice and take the better result.
  
• Pretty much all about combat both Ranged and Melee and Mobility based guys.
  
• ”Can move up to their speed as a Swift Action by spending a point of Mythic Power. At any point in time along that move they can make a single attack, melee or ranged.”
  
• Has an ability that says, “He does not fall unconscious when below 0 hit points and does not take damage from acting normally. In addition he does not die until his total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater to three times his constitution score.”

  Hierophant Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Deed: Gain 100 Followers that worship you
  
• Higher Tiers can grant followers spells but not class levels
  
• Can use Mythic Power to cast an extra spell
  
• Hieorphant will be able to increase the minimum healing possible – 1’s become 2’s and 2’s can become 3’s etc.

  Warden Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Has some Animal Companion or Cohort related abilities. None specifically given.
  
• Primarily defensive
  
• Can make blocks in the middle of combat
  
• Can make counter-strikes
  
• Can get Epic DR

  Trickster Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Can re-roll weapon damage dice.
  
• Can treat the enemy as flat-footed.
  
• Has abilities that can ”yoink” abilities from other Mythic Creatures

  Marshal Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Has a lot of abilities that help other people. Does have some abilities to give himself perks.
  
• Rise Up: ”Allies around the Marshal draw strength and courage from his leadership. Non-Mythic allies within 30 ft can draw upon his Mythic Power once per day to add to their dice rolls.”
  
• Rally in Advance: Can spend Mythic Power to grant his allies a move action right now.

  Monster Mythic Rules/Abilities
  

• Some monsters gain pounce
  
• Mythic Templates for monsters, such as the Agile Stalker: can go twice in a round, move full speed and gives pounce.
  
• Mythic versions of existing monsters, like Mythic Medusa, which is still in the works but one suggested power is to have all her snakes stare all around and slow anyone that approaches. Also Mythic Treants, Mythic Bears, and Mythic Minotaur.
  
• Mythic Fire Giant: ”Surrounded by a cloud of choking ash; can use it’s Mythic Power to summon a vortex of fire that flies around the battlefield burning everyone to a crisp; all of it’s weapons are made of lava; and… it also has precision like the Champion.”
  
• Mythic Hydra was running around the battlefield going twice, biting with all 7 heads, dealing bleed damage, had pounce, and it’s heads can regrow constantly.
  
• Mythic Minotaurs can teleport anywhere in their maze when they are unobserved

  Magic Items
  

• Legacy Items: chosen by the Path that you get to build as you increase in power.
  
• Artifacts
  
• Ambrosia: restores Mythic Power if you are Mythic also gives neutralize poison, remove curse and remove disease all cast at 10th level to everyone.
  
• Nectar of the Gods: Heroism for 1 day.
  
• Archdevils and Demon Lords are likely to be high CR Fiends with Mythic Levels
  
• Legacy Items are tentatively bound to the NPC who creates it. It may work for others non-Mythics to a lesser degree, and works slightly better for Mythics but the owner gets all the benefit. One idea is after a certain power level, it becomes a true Artifact that serves its owners better than anyone.
  
• Most Mythic Items will do X ability in the hands of everyone, but can do X and Y in the hands of a Mythic character

  Misc Information
  

• Will include a short adventure.
  
• Can kind of multiclass
  
• Some paths can select abilities from other paths
  
• There will be a Feat that allows for Dual Pathed that allows you to select a different path and gain a path ability from either of them.
  
• Will include a guideline on how to build Mythic Monsters
  
• James Jacobs creeped out the Paizo team with insane giggling when they revealed Mythic Rules to him
  
• Possibility to Solo adventures
  
• NPC Mythics are suspected to be restricted to ‘ages past’ like Thassilon, Azlanti etc.
  
• Ninjas are everywhere and all Ninjas are Mythic
  
• Working to make parties of mixed Mythic and non-Mythic parties compatible
  
• No one likes Aquaman
  
• Slated to be 256 pages
  
• All the Paths but not all of the abilities will be available in the Playtest
  
• Stole an idea that allows Mythic Characters to control or alter the environment around him, possibly even usurping the Divinely Morphic planar trait from the one that controls the Plane
  
• Can ‘Highlander’ your way to Mythic Power
  
• Dragons can be filled with Mythic Pudding
  
• Corruption could be a flaw or a mechanic – tentative idea at this point

If I included anything out of order, sorry. All this information comes from the Podcast about Mythic Adventures. I recorded whatever I heard, but it's best for people to go ahead an listen to it themselves. It can be found here.

• Archdevils and Demon Lords are likely to be high CR Fiends with Mythic Levels

Interesting. I wonder if they'll tone down the CRs we've seen on some of the arch demons so far(Nocticula for example) to accomadate this? Either way, looks very promising so far. Reading the archmage stuff kind of reminds me of how Raistlin was a powerful mage yeah, but it was his special abilities that made him the true Master of Past and Present. I think this is going to work well.

That said, I for one would still like to see some sort of framework to get to level 30. I'm one of those players that wants to have his level 20 rogue have 10 levels of shadowdancer as well. Although since advancement seems to stop around 20(and I agree with that all the way, 20 levels of any one class should be good) for this I can see an easy houserule doing the same while you get your feats and abilities from the last 10 levels if need be without getting more hitpoints/BAB/yaddayadda.

One thing that does concern me though is vulnerability aspect. That has tons of potential for bad DMs to abuse like mad. Not to mention players. I'd hate for Tar Baphon to get killed by a wooden stake wielded by a first level gnome alchemist....

Considering what I've seen from Paizo so far, confidence rating for this is high.

No one likes Aquaman

Best line ever.

It seriously sounds awesome!

Those podcast notes are really interesting! Gah, in a way I'm conflicted right now because one of my GMs is planning to start an 'epic' game soon. We were originally planning to use the Legendary Levels rules, but now I'm getting more interested in the Mythic rules. The problem of course is that the full mythic rules aren't coming out for like a year....we might be done by then.

The 'weaknesses' for mythic characters seems intriguing. I would just recommend caution on making the weaknesses too strong. It sounds like Mythic games *may* turn into a game of rocket tag at high levels (though the additional defenses they get may solve this), so you don't want a weakness to make a mythic character easier to kill than a non-mythic character. However, if done right, I think this could add an extra layer of depth to the rules.

There are all sorts of interesting weaknesses a character could have. One is dependance on a bonded item. I'm not even necessarily thinking of a even wizard bonded items... kitsune star balls from the legends come to mind. If a kistune's star ball was stolen, he could be forced into doing favors to get it back. There is also weakness near certain materials (kryptonite!), true names, and so on.

Anyway, I'm really hoping that there will be something in the 'legacy items' section that I can flavor as a Kitsune Star Ball. Assuming it comes out in time for that campaign I mentioned earlier ;)

Is there a "Mythic Character" that has "Luck" as a mythic ability? Did you plan on someone like that? A friend was talking to me and suggested a character be done with that ability, so I am suggesting it to you.

Is there a "Mythic Character" that has "Luck" as a mythic ability? Did you plan on someone like that? A friend was talking to me and suggested a character be done with that ability, so I am suggesting it to you.

This reminds me of the Wheel of Time series; there was a character who had the most absurd luck to the point that it was a superpower. ...we totally need that, lol. I guess it would fit best as a Trickster ability?

Tels wrote:

Except Superman has like DR 40/magic.

I thought it was 40/shiny green stones.

I believe that is Noqual, or as we jest around our table ClegSteel

Whole for the most part I'm very intrigued by the mythic system one enormous red flag for me is basing any part of mythic powers or mythic power uses in part on ability scores.

These numbers are already of vastly inflated importance in the system given their applicability to almost every key statistic. Making ability score enhancements even more attractive seems to be moving in the opposite direction that recent publications, such as Ultimate Equipment, have tried to emphasize.

Beyond the desirability of such stats for everyone, the highest ability score for a group can vary dramatically in range. This is especially for classes like the Magus, Inquisitor, or similar 'multiclass' like characters, which split stats as opposed to spellcasters who might focus on only one. This to say nothing of alchemists or summoners who could have particular trouble under what I've seen of the current system given their lack of reliance on a single score relative to other classes.

My tendency is then to think that moving away from ability scores and more towards level (which is both more predictable and equal) is the way to go.

Interested in seeing what you guys come up with though.

Actually, I am fan of using lowest ability score for things that should affect character overall abilities.

Actually, I am fan of using lowest ability score for things that should affect character overall abilities.

Personally, I would hate it if they implemented this. This would lead to boring characters where everyone spreads their stats out evenly in point buy.

It also makes rolling states worse. What if you get really unlucky when you roll your stats and gets stuck with a 5 somewhere? You'll just be left out of the mythic party?

I do have one concern about the way spell enhancements will work with the mythic rules though. Will they be compatible with Words of Power? I've read in a few places that there will be enhanced versions of specific spells, but that doesn't work with the WoP system.

I currently have a WoP using sorcerer in one of my campaigns, and I was thinking of giving the players the option of continuing the campaign with mythic rules after the final book. Worse comes to worse I can just find some way to *get* it to work by matching up Mythic spells with similar effect words I guess...

Right now the most interesting thing for me is the possibility of solo playing, I really hope it came in the playtest

How are things coming along with the playtest document? I'm really interested in seeing these rules.

This is Paizo's chance to truly make martial abilities awesome as all hell. Go nuts, don't even think for a moment melee is mundane! After all, even fighters can have nice things. ;)

Since things are mythic, I hope they don't try and stick to the idea that a fighter has to be "mundane". That idea's stretched thin enough as is.

Since things are mythic, I hope they don't try and stick to the idea that a fighter has to be "mundane". That idea's stretched thin enough as is.

Put me down for this hope as well!

I'd like to see 'Mundanes' doing stuff you see in cartoons and anime all the time. Mainly stuff like cleaving powers in half or deflecting them.

Lightning Bolt? Spent a Mythic Point and split the bolt to bend it around me.

Finger of Death? Spent a Mythic Point and deflected it with my sword.

Fireball? Spent a Mythic Point and shot an arrow to intercept the bead and detonated it in the caster's face.

Stuff like that would really increase the 'awesome' factor in the game.

I'd like to see 'Mundanes' doing stuff you see in cartoons and anime all the time. Mainly stuff like cleaving powers in half or deflecting them.

Lightning Bolt? Spent a Mythic Point and split the bolt to bend it around me.

Finger of Death? Spent a Mythic Point and deflected it with my sword.

Fireball? Spent a Mythic Point and shot an arrow to intercept the bead and detonated it in the caster's face.

Stuff like that would really increase the 'awesome' factor in the game.

I'm down with that, but not as binary as "F%%* you, I deflected your spell LOLOLOL". Maybe you can spend a point and make an attack roll against the 'AC' of the spell (perhaps 10+Spell level+Ability Score) to deflect it?

Oh of course, I don't want an auto-win, but at the same time, the AC of such a spell is really low if you use that formula. Think about it, a 9th level spell with max Ability score would have an AC of 32. That's practically an auto-success for any melee class at about 12th level on (that's assuming a mediocre build).

I was thinking more like 10 + Caster Level + Spell Level + Ability score for an AC. A 17th level melee class could probably hit AC 47 fairly regularly, but maybe that Mythic Point also gives a small bonus to help do it too.

Maybe if they beat the AC by 5 or 10 they can try and deflect it towards another target?

[Edit] I'm very much so picturing Link from the Zelda games when I picture this happening.

Oh of course, I don't want an auto-win, but at the same time, the AC of such a spell is really low if you use that formula. Think about it, a 9th level spell with max Ability score would have an AC of 32. That's practically an auto-success for any melee class at about 12th level on (that's assuming a mediocre build).

I was thinking more like 10 + Caster Level + Spell Level + Ability score for an AC. A 17th level melee class could probably hit AC 47 fairly regularly, but maybe that Mythic Point also gives a small bonus to help do it too.

That's a good point. Was just an example I threw off the top of my head.

I'd like to see 'Mundanes' doing stuff you see in cartoons and anime all the time. Mainly stuff like cleaving powers in half or deflecting them.

Lightning Bolt? Spent a Mythic Point and split the bolt to bend it around me.

Finger of Death? Spent a Mythic Point and deflected it with my sword.

Fireball? Spent a Mythic Point and shot an arrow to intercept the bead and detonated it in the caster's face.

Stuff like that would really increase the 'awesome' factor in the game.

Both to strong and too weak at once. I'd like to see it spend a mythic point to knock characters Mythic tier of spells out of the air in that round. As long as the caster is of less than or Equal mythic Tier.

This ability will not work on a MYTHIC spell (where the caster spends a Mythic point) unless the fighter has a HIGHER mythic tier.

I don't think it's too strong or too weak. As it stands, a character gets a number of Mythic Points equal to their Mythic Tier + their chosen ability score. It's not as if they can keep doing this round after round. Not only that, if it were limited to something like "if a Mythic Character has already spent a Mythic Point this round, he can't use his Mythic Power to deflect or cleave spells".

It'd simply be too powerful if a character could just burn Mythic Power each round to disrupt enemy spells. Fact is, unless the PC has absolutely no way of getting to the enemy caster, the PC will close in on the caster before the PC runs out of Mythic Power.

Anyway, it's just an idea that we see a lot in video games, anime, movies etc.

I see yoru point and I should have clarified.

Where I say it is too weak is when faceing lots of for lack of a better word Mook casters. If it only can be done once, the first magic missle he stops and the rest land on him. This is why I suggested up to is mythic tier in spells.

Where it is too powerful is if he is battling antoher Mythic caster of a higher tier. The Mythic caster won't be able to get enough spells to stop him and thus (if the caster was in a position he could not flee/maneuver) he could completely negate the Mythic Caster.

Allowing it to be partially tier based and requiring mythic points (which you already had it doing and I like) added more flexibility to it at least IMHO.

The Tier 6 Mythic warrior shrugging off the magical assualts of the 5 wizards... but still needing to worry about their Boss the Tier 6 Mythic Archmage.

My idea of higher Mythic Tiers punching through the defense was sort of a throw back to 3.5 and higher divine rank beating lower divine rank.

Well, Mythic Casters can spend a Mythic Point to cast an extra spell in a round. So you get a Standard Action spell, a Quickened Spell, and a Mythic Point spell. The Mythic Warrior could only defeat one of these three spells.

Well, Mythic Casters can spend a Mythic Point to cast an extra spell in a round. So you get a Standard Action spell, a Quickened Spell, and a Mythic Point spell. The Mythic Warrior could only defeat one of these three spells.

I was figuring on a Mythic caster getting 4 spells a round.

1 quickened spell, one regular spell then no his second full turn he gets from spending a mythic point a quickened spell and a regualr spell.

If it was only dealing with mythic spellcasters that would be fine. But I think the Mythic Fighter should be able to stop more non mythic spells which is why I suggested up to Mythic Tier spells rather then only 1. However if you let a 10th tier champion block 10 spells he shuts down the 10th tier archmage. This meant the Mythic Archmage needed a means of doing something.

It might be easiest to include a mechanic similar to Globe of Invulnerability. Maybe something like making himself immune to all spells equal to or lower level than his Mythic Tier for 1 round. While a Mythic Caster can spend a Mythic Point to negate this immunity.

So you end up with Mythic Warriors having the ability to charge through spells from the mooks, but still being vulnerable to the higher level or Mythic casters.

I could live with that.