Occult skill unlock: Hypnotism


Advice


This seems either situationally okay, or pretty nice, depending on how you interpret the rules. Here's how it works:

Hypnotism (Diplomacy):

You use the power of suggestion and subtle psychic influence to alter a subject's mind and dredge up repressed memories.

Check: You can use hypnotism once per day. The DC of a Diplomacy check to hypnotize is 20 + the subject's Will save modifier against mind-affecting enchantment (compulsion) effects. All uses of hypnotism are mind-affecting enchantment (compulsion) effects.

Implant Suggestion: You can implant a suggested course of reasonable action in the mind of a willing creature, along with a defined trigger. To implant a suggestion, you spend 1 minute inducing a trance-like state in the subject, after which you attempt a Diplomacy check. If the check is successful, You implant the course of action, as a suggestion spell with a duration of 10 minutes plus 10 additional minutes for every 1 by which your check result exceeds the DC. If the subject ceases to be willing, it can attempt a Will save once each round to shake off the effects. The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier. You can attempt to subtly implant a suggestion in the mind of an unwilling creature with an attitude of indifferent or better after 1 minute of continuous, calm interaction with that creature, but the DC is 10 higher.

Action: Hypnotism takes 1 minute of calm interaction.

Try Again: Yes. You can try to hypnotize the same creature more than once, but only once per day.

Okay, so the DC is 20 + the subject's Will save. This means that it's not very useful except to Diplomacy specialists. On the other hand, if you're building a dedicated Diplomacy monkey anyway, then heck yeah it's useful -- you should pass +20 Diplomacy around 7th level and never look back, meaning you'll pass the check for level-equivalent creatures well over half the time. Note that debuffs that drop the target's Will save will help here; a Mesmerist's Stare, a Sorceror of Sleep's Pesh Touch, whatever.

Now: the RAW says this is to implant a "reasonable" suggestion in the mind of a "willing" creature. Both those words involve a huge amount of wiggle room. If the DM is strict, it's a very nerfed form of Suggestion -- though still sometimes useful!

A number of questions are left unanswered. Is it obvious to onlookers that you're doing something to the target? Does the target remember the command? Does an unwilling target get the Will saves? (I'd say no to that last one.)

So overall it's a bit murky... but it's thematic, and flavorful, and could sometimes be quite useful. A Mesmerist with Skill Focus (Diplomacy) would be able to use this on a regular basis.

Thoughts?

Doug M.


Doug M wrote:
Is it obvious to onlookers that you're doing something to the target?
PFSRD wrote:

You use the power of suggestion and subtle psychic influence to alter a subject's mind and dredge up repressed memories.

(Emphasis mine)

You are simply talking to the target, whereas the target becomes more sluggish as he enters a trance. Someone standing right next to your target might notice the difference, but from a distance it would only seem as if you're having a conversation.

Doug M wrote:
Does the target remember the command?

If he remembered the command, then wouldn't he automatically become unwilling since he knows there was someone ordering him? The clause about a target ceasing to be willing indicates that they leave their trance-like state after the suggestion has been implanted.

Doug M wrote:
Does an unwilling target get the Will saves?

An unwilling target would simply not listen to you. So he doesn't need to make the saves, since he wouldn't let you use your ability.

*****
Anyway, the Diplomacy skill can already do what this ability describes.

Diplomacy: Suggest Course of Action wrote:

You can use Bluff and Diplomacy together to make a request of a creature, without it even realizing you have made the request.

Check: You can gradually coax a target into thinking a suggestion is entirely its own idea, making the creature more likely to act on the idea than if you had suggested it outright. You discuss topics subtly relevant to the request, asking leading questions and narrowing the scope of the conversation so that the target eventually decides to take a specific action you have led it to.

You first attempt a Bluff check to convince the target that your request was actually its idea. This is always treated as far-fetched circumstances, resulting in a –10 penalty on the check. If successful, you then attempt a Diplomacy check to make the request of the creature, treating its attitude toward you as indifferent for this single request (regardless of its actual attitude).

Action: Planting a notion and then coaxing a target into suggesting the notion himself each require at least 1 minute of continuous interaction. This can be difficult to arrange with a hostile or unfriendly creature.

And this one can actually be used on hostile and unfriendly creatures.

*****

The hypnotism would work better against targets with high sense motive/charisma, so in those cases it would be useful.
But if I didn't have access to occult skill unlocks from a class, I wouldn't waste a feat to get hypnotism.


This is from the Magic section of the core rule book.

crb wrote:
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Not sure if that would only apply to Spells and SLAs but it may apply here as well.


Since you implant "as suggestion" I would assume unconscious targets are considered willing per the magic section of the CRB.

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