Races in PFS

Why the racism? Why must I spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars of real money attending Cons in hopes of MAYBE getting a boon that allows me to play a race I love and am familiar with AND is already available in the same resource materials as other "legal" races?

I am beside myself with this nonsensical system of race. I cannot find any reasonable justification. Any ideas?

It is a reward for people who volunteer to GM at conventions. Without whom there would be no PFS at those conventions. It is entirely justified.

If you simply must play an undine or an oread there is a boon trading thread on these forums.

"Racism" is, perhaps, not the exactly appropriate word for not being able to play a particular character in a fantasy role-playing game unless certain criteria are met.

In addition to the reasons and options Jessex laid out, which seem entirely reasonable to me, for some (many?) people there are sufficient and significant story reasons for disallowing certain races from campaign play.

I believe the intent is to keep rare races somewhat rare among tables. If anyone could come in with a goblin character, you might see one every three tables and would make the setting feel a bit different. It is the same for other races as well. By tying the races to boons they can control how large that population is within society play compared to "normal" races.

Part of the appeal of playing a special race is being unique. If you are a sylph and go through not a game without playing with another outsider race, it undercuts that uniqueness for me even as a player playing alongside them.

I can understand that not being satisfactory. What if prestige classes were barred unless you got a boon stating your character could join that group? What if you couldn't make an oracle unless you had a god-touched boon? Or gunslinger without an another appropriate boon? However races carry lot of baggage though which is why they might be more restricted than other rules elements.

Edit: Checking to GM for online conventions or more local conventions might also get you the racial boon you are looking for on a character or two.

GM for an online Con. Cost is approximately $0.

There are a number of boons available at Cons that aren't available in other ways. Races are the most talked about of these options, because the are the most visible. In my current portfolio I have 7 race boons (2 undine, 1 ifrit, 1 oread, 1 sylph, 1 skinwalker, 1 dhampir) I've given away another couple of race boons. If you are willing to travel/sign up early for online cons or gamedays they aren't overly hard to pick up, or generally any better (and sometimes worse) than the existing available races. Oh and every convention with support (in my experience) gets a race boon for the GMs. But what you are asking about is why this disparity exists.

1. Some races are supposed to be more uncommon than others, it's just a fact that humans are more common than Tengu in the Golarion setting, even more so than the elemental races, Aasimars, Tieflings, etc. Frankly, I'm ready for Kitsune to go out of the always available list as it seems that in the past 9 months I've been at 2 tables without at least 1 if not 3.

2. Take GenCon for example (one of the few actually really good race boons). The con is 4 days long in Indianapolis, IN. There are 10 slots each requiring 180 GMs, plus another 25 or so HQ volunteers (and yes they get race boons too). Of those slots something like 65 people have 1/4th of a hotel room paid for them by Paizo, and most (but not all) GMs/HQ get a 4 day GenCon badge (I think a minimum of 4 tables GMed to get this). Those hotel rooms go for $400-$500/per night during GenCon for people not getting them in return for spending 90% of the con in the Sagamore Ballroom. Additionally, you have travel expenses, food, parking ($37/day close to the event center during the con), and time off from work. Oh and most people end up taking a minimum of 6 days off work, if not more. These GMs are basically paying $2000 to give someone else the opportunity to play, is a rare race boon too much to give them back?

3. Conventions are the best advertisement and recruitment tool for PFS/Paizo. IIRC more new numbers are given out at GenCon than any other time during the year. For that reason Paizo continues to support conventions (large and small). If conventions stop being successful I imagine the support for them would also dry out.

4. Conventions are harder to run/put together than your average gameday. Generally there is more going on. It's louder/more stressful/longer. Then there's the addition of multi-table specials. They are a different beast altogether. Finally, you're going to run into a lot of strangers, I find that builds tend to vary by region, so the further a field you go for a convention the more likely you run into something you've never seen/considered before.

5. Oh and to put together the list of race boons I have. A couple are from last year, but most are from the past couple of months. I went to 5 cons in the past 4 months. Most of them were a 65 mile drive from my house. Some were one day long, some were 4 days. Finally, the last one was a trade I made for a hand-painted miniature that I had put a good bit of time into. Would getting rid of these race boons stop me from going to as many cons as I could? No probably not. Do they help me and/or others decide to GM instead of playing every slot? Yes. I frankly GM almost every week at our local PFS game, I could happily play more instead. Though I am lucky enough to play somewhere that 2 days a week run most of the time so I do get a chance to play, I know a number of others who do not, they played 1 or 2 slots at GenCon and probably won't play again (in a F2F game) for a couple months.

A small incentive to make convention GMs feel special is not a problem or a practice that I feel needs changing, though I'm sorry that you feel it negatively impacts your experience. (I know most of our locals play APs with these uncommon boon races as available choices, if it helps any)

I have one race boon. Should maybe have two, but my slot ran long and I forgot to pick up my GM boon or something. I don't remember.

I have paid exactly 0 dollars. Both were local cons, I GMed 3 tables at each, which got my entrance fee waived and got me a con boon. The hardest part has been lining up baby sitting. (Fortunately that con is near my birthday, so I have been cashing in birthday presents for baby sitting :) I would bring her to play, but 3 years is still a little young for PFS.)

Like most chronicle sheet loot it is there to balance rarity and drive diversity. A lot of the banned races are ideal for specific classes, some to the point where if they were legal, 90% of class X would be Race Y.

In some cases the strictures are relaxed because the PCs are going to be adventuring where the race is more common. (Year 5, world wound, lots of Aasimar and Tiefling, year 6, no more world wound, no more free Aasimar and Tiefling.)

Why the racism? Why must I spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars of real money attending Cons in hopes of MAYBE getting a boon that allows me to play a race I love and am familiar with AND is already available in the same resource materials as other "legal" races?

I am beside myself with this nonsensical system of race. I cannot find any reasonable justification. Any ideas?

It might be helpful for you to share with us which races you are hoping to play.

I am beside myself with this nonsensical system of race. I cannot find any reasonable justification. Any ideas?

Have you tried asking in a less hostile manner?

While I understand and accept the restricted race policy and lure of GMs to run at Cons for boons (I am the envy of many with my Grippli from GenCon 2014), it is upsetting to have specific race books, with a new one on the way, that are largely unusable in PFS.

I look at the race restrictions much the same way as class restrictions. There are reasons beyond 'flavor' that a race might not be perceived as viable/too overpowering/not thematic with the continuing story that the Society writers have in mind.

This all being said, if tengu went away, I'd probably lose a good chunk of my Society focus of late. They're my new 'elf'.

I miss having humans in the party. A running gag among the locals for a while has been counting up the fractions of human(racial halves, human heritages, etc) in the party to see if they have enough for a "full" human.

That said, more people should try an elf. And not just any knife-ear but a Golarion one. Forlorns, Ekujae, Castrovelians, Snowcaster, etc. Unlike Golarion Dwarves, they're pretty cool.

On a slightly tangential (and biased towards role play, which is what I like in Pathfinder) note, I've only rarely ever seen someone playing a non-human race have the playing of their character make you say, "Oh, he's actually not playing a human.", based on actions, voice, etc. There have been instances where I've seen it done exceptionally well, Undines tend to be Southern, a very good bird-like Tengu, a couple Tiefling alchemists that make your skin crawl, some bombastic Ifrits. However, when these questions about playing other races come up, I always wonder if people are really going to role play them or just want a different set of stat bonuses, racial traits and slightly different backstory that never gets revealed in play.

I miss having humans in the party. A running gag among the locals for a while has been counting up the fractions of human(racial halves, human heritages, etc) in the party to see if they have enough for a "full" human.

Interesting.

I put up a poll a while back and found that almost 1/3 of the characters in PFS are human.

I, myself, have 4 human characters out of 11 active characters. (I have 6 human characters out of 17 characters if I count characters I no longer play and characters I have yet to play.)

...When these questions about playing other races come up, I always wonder if people are really going to role play them or just want a different set of stat bonuses, racial traits and slightly different backstory that never gets revealed in play.

There are many different ways to play this game.

I miss having humans in the party. A running gag among the locals for a while has been counting up the fractions of human(racial halves, human heritages, etc) in the party to see if they have enough for a "full" human.

I was at a table the other day of four players, all human. It was extraordinary.

Oddly, when I choose a race for power gaming reasons, it's usually human. That bonus feat is just too good to pass up for some builds.

As for people RPing their race, I've seen quite a bit of it. It really depends on the person. Some people get more into talking "in character" and really acting out their character's actions, while others don't. I don't think that has anything to do with race.

In my case, you can always tell when I'm playing a gnome (talk faster, squeekier voice). And my nagaji hisses a little. And my half orc introduces himself as Green Beard the Pirate, because what else would you call a half orc pirate? And my tiefling goes around biting people with his tusks in combat. So you can usually tell what non-human race I'm playing, even if you missed my character intro.

DrParty06 wrote:

...When these questions about playing other races come up, I always wonder if people are really going to role play them or just want a different set of stat bonuses, racial traits and slightly different backstory that never gets revealed in play.

There are many different ways to play this game.

I totally agree with that. I haven't really felt a drive toward "needing"/wanting to play exotic race X, which is something I've seen as a negative regarding PFS in several places. I'm more interested in what the reasoning is behind this, and if people wouldn't just be as well off playing a human or something that is playable, but are too busy focusing on what they can't do as opposed to what they can.

They've opened aasaimar, tiefling, kitsune, wayang, nagaji, and tengu for everyone. (and then closed the planetouched). If you have a specific race in mind it may open up at some point.

I've run and played PFS and home games (home games for decades).

PFS has advantages in that characters are portable and the entire campaign is "modular" for lack of a better term, IOW you can play with different players and GM's week to week. PFS is much more combat oriented and rarely has the sort of rp that a good home game can have.

A home game can be run at a better pace with an actual plot. The GM can control the power level of the players so that his adventures will challenge the entire table. Extensive rp is a possibility. However player absence can cause a session to be cancelled. A true home brew campaign is a lot more work for the GM than spending $4 and reading through a scenario a few times.

Both styles of play have their advantages and disadvantages.

Removed some unhelpful posts and responses. Please be civil, thank you!

Honestly, my biggest peeve about the the races in pfs is the fact that most players don't put any thought into their character's history. Like not knowing where they were raised, or even how they became a pathfinder.

Honestly, my biggest peeve about the the races in pfs is the fact that most players don't put any thought into their character's history. Like not knowing where they were raised, or even how they became a pathfinder.

Not sure that's really a problem with the races so much as the players lack of building a backstory. There are some races I wish had more background to help build backstory - Wayang I'm looking at you.

I have received two race boons for GMing at a con in the past year, and gave one of them away to a local player who was far more excited about the race than I was. Ask nicely about races and you might be surprised about the results.

Juniperkitsu wrote:

Honestly, my biggest peeve about the the races in pfs is the fact that most players don't put any thought into their character's history. Like not knowing where they were raised, or even how they became a pathfinder.

Not sure that's really a problem with the races so much as the players lack of building a backstory. There are some races I wish had more background to help build backstory - Wayang I'm looking at you.

Yeah, there's like all of 3/4 of a page describing what the race is like, and about two pictures of wayangs. I would like more than that, wayangs could be awesome. I'm really enjoying playing mine as extremely skittish, scared of anything bigger than him, and lamenting the return of the sun to Golarion. Things were better when eagles couldn't spot you from up high.

Is Minnesota odd? Locally, it seems that every table is mostly humans with a scattering of half-elves and half-orcs. I do see some of the other exotics, but just about every table I've played at is majority human. Humans are particularly prevalent on the 2+int classes -- clerics, sorcs, paladins. That extra skill point is precious in PFS!

Back to the original poster... You do know that there is a PFS PBP convention starting up this September, right? It's a zero-money cost Convention option, but it is more time-consuming than conventional GMing. Still PBP is a BLAST... I highly recommend it!

Hmm

Is Minnesota odd? Locally, it seems that every table is mostly humans with a scattering of half-elves and half-orcs. I do see some of the other exotics, but just about every table I've played at is majority human. Humans are particularly prevalent on the 2+int classes -- clerics, sorcs, paladins. That extra skill point is precious in PFS!

Back to the original poster... You do know that there is a PFS PBP convention starting up this September, right? It's a zero-money cost Convention option, but it is more time-consuming than conventional GMing. Still PBP is a BLAST... I highly recommend it!

Hmm

There is certainly regional variation in race selection and builds. Locally we see a lot of phases. Personally I like playing a variety of races so pretty much every character is a different race. Then I generally pick a different class as well. Helps me learn a lot of different options for when I GM.

Humans are a mechanically strong choice for just about every class, and many people prefer them for nonmechanical reasons as well. I think the biggest strike against humans is that they lack darkvision and that PFS writers sometimes think that using lots of Darkness is still original.

Is Minnesota odd? Locally, it seems that every table is mostly humans with a scattering of half-elves and half-orcs.

Hmm

Up here we currently have mostly CRB races. But back when Aasimar and Tieflings were freely available we had a LOT of them. I've sat at tables where all 6 characters were one or the other. They are still fairly common at the high tier tables

My last table had a human at it (also a Sylph, an Undean and me - an Ifrit. Our normal companion the Oread couldn't make that game...). First time in four or five I think...

This issue obviously has lots of regional variation. When you have a group of experienced players all suggesting "X race is the best" (however they define "best" locally), new folks tend to grow up in the school of thought.

Ont he issue of no character background, etc: I find that a lot of people don't roleplay their characters because no one else does. GMs need to lead by example in this regard (but so can players). At my tables I ask the players to introduce their characters to the table in-character, so we can get a sense of what they look like, etc. If the first person starts off with a cool in-character description, it really sets the tone. (So, always call on a good role-player to introduce their PC first if possible!) Or, have the Venture-Captain come in and interact with the PCs before launching into the box-text briefing. It can make a world of difference if you do it yourself and ask questions that encourage others to think about their character's background.

This issue obviously has lots of regional variation. When you have a group of experienced players all suggesting "X race is the best" (however they define "best" locally), new folks tend to grow up in the school of thought.

Ont he issue of no character background, etc: I find that a lot of people don't roleplay their characters because no one else does. GMs need to lead by example in this regard (but so can players). At my tables I ask the players to introduce their characters to the table in-character, so we can get a sense of what they look like, etc. If the first person starts off with a cool in-character description, it really sets the tone. (So, always call on a good role-player to introduce their PC first if possible!) Or, have the Venture-Captain come in and interact with the PCs before launching into the box-text briefing. It can make a world of difference if you do it yourself and ask questions that encourage others to think about their character's background.

I have some plans along these lines when I finally get to start GMing for PFS. ^_^

According to my polling results, here is an approximation for the racial demographics in Pathfinder Society.
.
.
.
.

31% Human
10% Tiefling
09% Aasimar
08% Half-Orc
07% Other
07% Half-Elf
07% Elf
05% Dwarf
05% Halfling
03% Gnome
03% Kitsune
03% Tengu
01% Wayang
01% Nagaji

We see that humans outnumber all native outsiders combined.

I just want a Kobold. That's all.

I just want a Kobold. That's all.

A PERMANENT Kobold, please.

May as well wait until there is a new Coordinator to even bother asking for Kobolds (as the previous one had said it was never going to happen, something I believe will remain true, but hey dream big (or small in this case).)

It wasn't really about kobolds per se(unless we are thinking of a different convo) but Evil races in general. Those aren't happening.

It wasn't really about kobolds per se(unless we are thinking of a different convo) but Evil races in general. Those aren't happening.

For evil races there are:

Goblin PCs (limited few in number I realize...)

Tieflings (as Evil as any of the other Evil races - it's in the blood!)

Half-Orcs,

and then

"In general" aren't happening. And you left out dhampirs and that one auctioned Orc. And gnomes are pretty darn evil too!

*twirls a fake mustache*

MWAHAHA

And gnomes are pretty darn evil too!

"No, we're chaotic neutral. We're just role playing our alignment!"

"In general" aren't happening. And you left out dhampirs and that one auctioned Orc. And gnomes are the epitome of evil too!

FTFY