How to fix your Will save?


Advice


What options are available for the martial classes with a bad Will save (Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue) to shore it up?

Aside from "don't play one," of course. Assume that the character will stay single-classed throughout his whole career.


The feat Iron Will. The trait that gives you a boost. Higher wisdom scores (at creation or via items or from buffs). Items like Cloak of Resistance. Barbarians can get boosts for certain types of will-save causing things with their rage powers.


Barbarian is easy, take Superstition and your good to go. Bonus points if you are human and take the Favored Class option to amp it up to the max. Ranger is pretty straightforward as well, you already want WIS so you get bonus to your Will save for grabbing a stat you want anyway. Fighters can take the unbreakable archetype, but its scope is limited to mind-affecting effects. Rogues... you can take Slippery Mind. And.... that's about it.

This of course discounts class neutral options like taking Iron Will or being a Dwarf. Though if you absolutely must get that save up Dwarf with the Iron Will line and Steel Soul. Dwarfs bonus won't help you with SU though. Also traits.


Rogues, fighter and rangers can path it but not actually fix it. Iron will + a ttrait give you a +3. Dwarf get a big bonus with steel soul. half-elf could have dual minded for a +2. Halfling have luck bonus and half-orcs can have those too. There ae a couple of magic items too.


Half-elves have alternate racial trait that replaces Skill Focus with +2 racial bonus to Will saving throws.

Lantern Lodge

Also, don't forget the re-roll options. Re-rolling a failed save isn't necessarily as good as having a good save, but not getting the re-roll is even worse.

Samurai has options in this regard.

Improved Iron Will gives you a re-roll I think.

There's a chain of feats for Humans.

Also, as an honorable mention, Halflings have interesting luck bonuses (and feats related thereto) that can be used to bolster saves.

Half-Orcs can take Sacred Tattoo as an alternate race trait and the Fate's Favored religious trait to get +2 luck to all saves.

The Teamwork feat Tribal Mentality might help.

Go with a decent WISDOM. Nothing says a martial can't have a 12 or 14 WIS.

Lots of little things. One problem is that the feats you spend on this impact your combat ability as you won't be using them on combat feats.

Grand Lodge

1 level dip into a spellcasting class (any of them, really) will give you a quick +2 to Will save, plus some other goodies.

Silver Crusade

Dip a level of monk and get a +2 on all your saves, thats worth 3 feats by itself

Scarab Sages

Slippery Mind Rogue Talent helps rogues.

Sczarni

Headband of inspired wisdom can help


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Assuming martial classes.
Trait: Indomitable Faith (+1 all will saves)
Feats: Iron Will, Improved Iron Will. (+2 Will Saves, Re-roll will save 1/day)
Items: +1 Cloak of Resistance (1000 gp, +1 all saves). Standard wealth by level means by 3rd or 4th level you will be able to pick this up.
Other: Don't dump wisdom. If you have a caster and lack a cloak, ask nicely for a resistance buff cantrip before the fight.

One trait, feat and 1000gp cloak and you have +4. Have a 12 wisdom and you'll be at +5 above your base. If you take both feats, 12 wisdom, buy a cloak, you'll be at +5 above normal for your class with a re-roll by 3rd.

There are also race-specific options (dwarf, halfling, etc...) and class-specific (barbarian superstition line) of course.


Traits:
Indomitable Faith
Fate's Favored + Halfling or Half Orc
Glory of Old for Dwarves (does not stack with Indomitable Faith)

Feats:
Iron Will
Improved Iron Will gives a 1/day reroll
Steel Soul for Dwarves

Alt Racial abilities:
Dual Minded for Half Elves
Sacred Tatoo for Half Orcs (can be boosted with Fate's Favored)

Class Features:
Superstition for Barbarian (can be boosted with Human favored class bonus)
Resolve for Samurai (roll twice and take better, must decide to use before rolling)
Unflinching for Unbreakable Fighters (mind affecting only, but that's most will saves)


My barbarian/alchemist has Iron Will as his human bonus feat, and a Cayden Cailean-specific trait that gives a +2 bonus on mind-affecting saves (so pretty much all Will saves) if you've been drinking in the last hour. I believe it's called Fortified Drinker. He also has a Wisdom penalty. It seems to be working out all right so far.


Don't forget barb gets a +2 to +4 to will while raging depending on level.

Scarab Sages

Fighter has Bravery to help with fear effects. Bravery is pretty terrible, but at least it's something.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Traits:

Indomitable Faith
Fate's Favored + Halfling or Half Orc
Glory of Old for Dwarves (does not stack with Indomitable Faith)
...

To the OP just be aware, in 3.5 halfling's had a luck bonus for their saves. Pathfinder changed it to a racial bonus. BUT the alternate halfing racial trait Adaptable Luck is a luck bonus which works with Fate's Favored. +3 3/day to a save/check/attack on demand at 1st level is pretty nifty.


Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone: +1 Competence bonus on either attack rolls or all saves for 4k gold.

High level characters can get the following as well:

Luckstone + Fate's Favored trait. +2 Luck bonus to saving throws, ability checks (Initiative is a Dex check, don't forget), and skill checks.

Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone for a +1 Competence bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks.

Flawed Pale Green Prism for a +1 Morale bonus to all of the above.

Then take Improved Eldritch Heritage (Imperious) to increase both of those bonuses by one.

A +1-3 Courageous weapon increases those morale bonuses by a further +1,and a +4 version increases them by +2. If he's a Barbarian, the Furious property will add +2 to the enhancement while raging, increasing the Courageous bonus by one more.

Don't really expect a Barbarian to have high Charisma for Eldritch Heritage, so it's more of an either/or option.

High investment, but high payoff. Craft Wondrous Item helps loads.


Tin Foil Yamakah wrote:
Dip a level of monk and get a +2 on all your saves, thats worth 3 feats by itself

I do have to say that altho in general I think dipping in PF is a bad idea, this isn;t.

You also get Improved Unarmed Strike and a bonus feat. Heck with two levels you get evasion and yet another feat, not to mention +1 on all three saves.

A fighter would only lose one feat and one BAB, plus later access to a minor class feature.

Of course this applies to martial classes only. Rarely should spellcasters multi class.

IMHO Superstition is a trap, prevents your party from casting buff spells on you. YMMV.

But at a Minimum:

Don't dump Wis. Get a 12 at least.

Iron Will. (Mythic Iron Will, too)

A trait.

That gives you +4, making you the equal of classes with Good Will saves until very high levels.

The Exchange

Although it's temporary, a potion of owl's wisdom or protection from evil is always good for a +2 (a situational, but very common, one in the case of protection from evil.)

The racial benefits of gnomes, half-elves and elves (bonuses vs. Illusion and Enchantment) both tend to come into play on Will saves more than other save types. Again, situational - but very common situations.

Probably the oddest work-around I've seen was a buddy who had an intelligent weapon. Ordinarily their goals and alignment were close enough that they got along fine, but if an enemy managed to charm or dominate the wielder, the weapon would (as soon as it realized what was up) force an Ego check to pre-empt the dominator's control.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Superstition for Barbarian (can be boosted with Human favored class bonus)

They also have Auspicious mark(meh), Clear Mind(awesome!), Eater of magic(amazing!) Fearless Rage(total immunity to two kinds of fear while raging), Good for what Ails you(eh?), Liquid Courage(Meh), and perfect clarity(also meh). Lots of rage powers that help with saving throws and avoid those nasty effects.

Imbicatus wrote:
Fighter has Bravery to help with fear effects. Bravery is pretty terrible, but at least it's something.

Oddly enough, bravery only affects saves against will saves vs. fear, but not against being intimidated. Bravery is pretty meh, yeah.


Advanced rogue Talent Hard to Fool gives you infinite rerolls on mind affecting effects.

1 level of Aristocrat gives you +2 Will without losing BAB.

Stone of Good Luck (or Lucksword) gives you +1 luck bonus to all saves, headband of wisdom can be useful to increase your wisdom (get the lower ones that your cleric doesn't need anymore).


Noir le Lotus wrote:
Advanced rogue Talent Hard to Fool gives you infinite rerolls on mind affecting effects.

How does that work? Did you mean Slippery Mind?


The Tribal Scars feat will give you another +1, and looks like it stacks with Iron Will


With all the options I've seen here, it would be fairly easy to make a barbarian that could skip superstition entirely (reflex save ends up a bit 'meh' though; might want to grab lightning reflexes).

For example: Half elf (+2), 12 Wis (+1), Trait (+1; various sources can give this), and Iron Will (+2).

By level 3 (since first feat is generally power attack, obviously), your will save would by +7 with all this. That is the same as a cleric with 18 WIS! And that is before factoring in the +2 to will saves you get while raging at that level. Even after the front loading of all this wears off, you are still better off than most wizards.

And this still leaves you room to grab a ton of reroll options. Improved Iron Will, Exile's Path (half elf feat; same as improved iron will, but only for enchantment effects), and Clear Mind (reroll 1/rage? Good god...once you can rage cycle, this makes all other will rerolls 'in case we are ambushed' options) will insure that YOU are the one that will be bouncing back while everyone else gets mind jacked.

There is also the 'Kin Bond' trait that have another player willing to play as your sibling. It essentially allows a 1/day reroll on any saving throw(with a +2 bonus this time around) as long as your sibling is within 30 feet. The risk is that, if you fail the reroll, then both of characters become dazed. So it is understandable that there is a clause that the other player has to LET you reroll. Still, it sounds flavorful and useful.

Shadow Lodge

A level of Spellbreaker (Inquisitor archetype) gives you a reroll on a will save. I think it's 1/day off the top of my head, but don't quote me.

Also opens up use of divine wands as a side benefit.

Liberty's Edge

DrDeth wrote:
IMHO Superstition is a trap, prevents your party from casting buff spells on you. YMMV.

That's pretty easy to work around, though. At least, if the party coordinates well.

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