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I looking to build a Bull Rush focused Brawler(not the archetype) for an upcoming Carrion Crown campaign, but don't have much experience with the class.
This is what I have as to what is available:
Hobgoblin race(this cannot be changed).
25 point buy.
Any Pathfinder book(no third party).
Any advice?
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I figured going with Merciless Rush, and Spiked Destroyer.
With the new version Spiked Destroyer, I can actually use the two together.
would that combine with a bull rush?
Does it count as a charge?
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Brawler can flurry with Shields. Pick up Shield Slam for free bull rushes on every shield attack, and you can still use Merciless Rush/Spiked Destroyer with the Bull Rushes triggered by Shield Slam.
Two weapon fighting is not really the path I wanted to go, but I suppose I could dip two levels in Ranger, if needed.
I figured I would use Rhino Charge, to ready charged Bull Rushes.
Is Shield Slam the best way?
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would that combine with a bull rush?
Does it count as a charge?
"You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack."
So, you can indeed, charge, and it counts as a charge.
This is why I was thinking of using Spiked Destroyer, and/or Merciless Rush, in conjuction with the Horn of the Criosphinx feat.
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Brawler can flurry with Shields. Pick up Shield Slam for free bull rushes on every shield attack, and you can still use Merciless Rush/Spiked Destroyer with the Bull Rushes triggered by Shield Slam.Two weapon fighting is not really the path I wanted to go, but I suppose I could dip two levels in Ranger, if needed.
I figured I would use Rhino Charge, to ready charged Bull Rushes.
Is Shield Slam the best way?
You don't need to use Two Weapon Fighting for this, as Brawler's Flurry allows you to meet the TWF prerequisite for the feat. The real annoying part of the Shield Slam route is that Brawlers are proficient with shields as weapons, but not as shields. The Ranger dip allows you to bypass that as well as pick up Shield slam early.
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I had considered taking Tribal Scars(Greattusk) at first level, instead of Power Attack, for the added survivability, and eventual boon to Bull Rush.
I have to admit this sort of build really intrigues me. I like the idea of a character that barrels through opponents rather than the same charg/full attack sequence you see all the time.
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Well, the DM is giving us higher point buy, and many options, to allow for flavorful builds.
Bull Rush is something I really don't have the greatest amount of experience with, so I want to really delve into it.
Brawler is also a class I don't have experience with.
I know that focusing on the Brawler's Flurry is good, in theory, but enemies just seem more mobile than that.
The ability to move, then ready a Charge/Bull Rush seems pretty cool too.
Well, the DM is giving us higher point buy, and many options, to allow for flavorful builds.
Bull Rush is something I really don't have the greatest amount of experience with, so I want to really delve into it.
Brawler is also a class I don't have experience with.
I know that focusing on the Brawler's Flurry is good, in theory, but enemies just seem more mobile than that.
The ability to move, then ready a Charge/Bull Rush seems pretty cool too.
What's great about Brawler's Flurry is that you're good at it without any investment on your part. So when the opportunity to full attack presents itself, it's there to use, else-wise bull rush opponents into the dirt.
I will say, I've been focusing on a trip/ki throw/dirty trick brawler, and they're great.
Horn feat needs specifically a weapon that is classified as a two handed weapon, or can you hold a weapon two handed?
Merciless rush would leave the target standing as well?
I have too much bad experience with Trip/Disarm.
Dirty Trick is cool, but requires a real specialized build.
Now that Spiked Destroyer has no deity worship required, I had hoped to use it with this build.
I guess I should have clarified, what I meant was that the Brawler is great, not my particular build.
With brawlers flurry, you can twf when it suites you without investing in it. With the maneuvers, you can pick up a needed feat on the fly, and a bull rush build is complimented by this.
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Horn feat needs specifically a weapon that is classified as a two handed weapon, or can you hold a weapon two handed?
Well, it says:
Horn of the Criosphinx (Combat)
You end your charge in a devastating two-handed attack.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6 or monk level 6th.
Benefit: Whenever you make a successful charge attack while wielding a two-handed weapon in both hands, add two times your Strength bonus to the damage roll.
Normal: A character wielding a two-handed weapon adds 1-1/2 times her Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Special: A monk can use this feat as long as he is wielding a two-handed weapon or both his hands are empty.
Note: A monk can take this feat as a bonus feat at 6th level. To benefit from this feat, monks must have both hands free and be capable of delivering an unarmed strike.
Now, note the "Special" line, which states that a Monk(which a Brawler counts as) can use the feat with two empty hands.
Things here are relevant to my shield slayer who two hands a shield and might get down with the spikes, so I ask because it matters for if the shield would make it legal.
I don't know the legalities for wielding a large shield. I'm more interested in if the feat is exclusive to two handed weapons or weapons that are being held with two hands.
It's looking like it needs to be a legal thw that needs to be in two hands, so no one handing the thw.
Merciless rush says you trample, but nothing about making them prone. I might take this feat anyways.
I'll keep checking on this thread. You found stuff in the general section I had no idea of. If you get a final build going and left over good ideas, I would love to see them.
Merciless rush to get in the opposite side to establish a flank, or shield slam into a line of enemies could possibly result in damaging everyone of them and you getting to the other side.
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Hmm.
Merciless Rush doesn't say how it interacts with a line of creatures.
Usually:
If there is another creature in the way of your bull rush, you must immediately make a combat maneuver check to bull rush that creature. You take a –4 penalty on this check for each creature being pushed beyond the first. If you are successful, you can continue to push the creatures a distance equal to the lesser result. For example, if a fighter bull rushes a goblin for a total of 15 feet, but there is another goblin 5 feet behind the first, he must make another combat maneuver check against the second goblin after having pushed the first 5 feet. If his check reveals that he can push the second goblin a total of 20 feet, he can continue to push both goblins another 10 feet (since the first goblin will have moved a total of 15 feet).
So, you could barrel through a line of creatures, and potentially deal damage to all of them?
Merciless rush and shield slam might let you just use iterative attacks and if you beat the cmb by 5 each hit, you could "move" through each time, dealing damage.
I just realized the rush says you just move to the other side of the creature, so I don't think it'll be legal to do if you can't get into a legal space. Also, I think you choose the normal rule option, or your teleport. It specifies nothing about creature size too, so if it's large, you just need to beat by 5, and you'll be on the other side.
This is definitely something to be dismantled by interpretation.
xtxty and xtxxty
X= space
T= targets
Y= you
First one you attack, teleport to the first x, then attack second target and teleport again.
Second one is the same, but you 5ft step before making the attack.
Shield slam!
Well, wouldn't you just move to the other side of the creature, where the next creature is, and be continuing on with the Bull Rush, at -4?
no, it seems that this is an alternative method to pushing it back, and at first I was thinking about you just clearing house, but it says that the -4 stuff is when you're pushing back.
So, it looks like you'd obviously need a legal square, and you just go to the other side, or at least the distance you achieved. Minimal of over 5 would net you 5ft. but it says you move through the creature with just 5 over the cmd, so on a large you'd need 10 over, so that seems to say you just teleport to the other side just on 5ft.
I'm sure someone will try and end my madness soon.
This was clearly written without shield slam in mind, so madness is possible.
I am just writing teleport, because it says nothing about using movement. If you bull rush with shield slam it gives you an option to "move through" instead of pushing the target back. It seems you would fly to the other side when you rushed and beat the targets cmd by 5.
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For traits, I am considering the Adopted/Bred for War, as it will up CMB.
Not so sure about other traits.
We are allowed Drawbacks, for an extra trait, if desired.
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Okay, here is what I went with:
Male Hobgoblin Brawler 1
CN Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +6
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+3 armor, +2 shield, +2 Dex)
hp 12 (1d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee heavy shield bash +4 (1d6+3) and
. . masterwork armor spikes +5 (1d6+3) and
. . unarmed strike +4 (1d6+3)
Ranged sling +3 (1d4+3)
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Statistics
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Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack
Traits adopted, bred for war (shoanti), chosen child, muscle of the society
Skills Acrobatics +6, Diplomacy +2 (+0 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized), Handle Animal +5, Intimidate +17, Perception +6, Ride +6; Racial Modifiers +4 Intimidate
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ martial maneuvers, pride, unarmed strike
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Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Martial Maneuvers (1/day) (Ex) Spend a move action to gain the benefit of a combat feat for 1 minute.
Mask of Fear This rusted iron Razmir mask glows with runes. It grants the wearer a +5 bonus to intimidate checks.
Muscle of the Society +2 bonus to strength checks to break doors or lift portcullises.
Portable ram +2 to STR checks to break open a door, and allows a second helper (+2).
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Pride -2 to diplomacy and sense motive vs. those who threaten, accuse, or challenge you, until they apologize
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
It's not completely optimized, but seems alright.
Any advice for where to go from here?