Goblin Squad Member
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In this thread the topic of "reclamation" of players both new and old is brought up and it got me thinking of various aspects of introducing a new player in-game to the in-game/out-of-game content/world and such.
It was stated that we would have to acclimatize new players to our system of PvP, PC interactions, Laws, and Social Constraints that will be fundamental to the PfO experience, and also to clear the slate of whatever preconceptions they will have (OH PfO? Isn't that just a fantasy EvE ripoff?)
I think areas of particular concern will be discussion of
1) Reputation and what it actually means.
2) PvP and how it is done in PfO
3) Factioning/Settlements
4) Risk v. Reward
5) Who to look out for, and why.
These are simply the most basic of things that will not be determined by an in-game mechanic that we as players control, and have a responsibility to cover, to a degree.
The task of going over these should fall particularly to four types of individuals/factions (in order of duty)
1) The "Newb-Protection" Agencies (Guilds/Settlements who pledge in their mission statement to protect the weak/innocent)
2) Factions based in Newb starting areas (Self-explanatory, really.)
3) Merchants trading in Newb areas (They deserve to know the risk of travelling through the lands with large amounts of valuables, and who better to ask?)
4) Any person who is asked and has the desire to respond (duh.)
But what do I mean by each of these aspects which should be talked about?
1) Reputation and what it actually means: The in game system of reputation will be very important, but I feel can often be misleading. Reputation can give the general idea of the disposition of a PC, and should always be seriously considered when engaging another person, but I feel like it would be a serious mistake to place too much weight in Reputation. I plan on using underhanded tactics (not cheating, but ambushes, manipulation, etc.) to help my friends and my goals, and to protect people I wish to protect. Obviously I will develop a bad reputation for some, but does that mean I am bad overall? At the same time, reputation can be used as a form of "griefing" and should be watched for (a company all give a person bad rep even though she never actually did anything). Thus, Reputation and the system needs to be fully disclosed to anyone starting so they can fully understand what they are getting into.
2) PvP and how it is done in PfO: Basically just make it clear that there is a system and anything outside of the system will result in possible alignment damage and probable bounties and reputation damage. Also mention NPC settlements as safe zones, and PvP guilds and guilds who protect newbs. We've done a good job with it so far, so no conerns
3) Factioning/Settlements: This is going to be SO FREAKING IMPORTANT I cannot even begin to stress it enough. This entire game is based off of PC interaction, PC nations, PC politics, and PC fighting (both internal and external via violence, espionage, finances, words, etc.). Arguably which settlement and company you choose is the most important decision you can make in the game, more important than what role you will play even. The settlement can help decide who your friends are and who your enemies are. It can determine what type of harvester you become, or what type of weapon you focus in. It can basically make or break your character and it is the absolute imperative for every faction who recruits to be make themselves known in whatever manner, public or private to newbs. When a newb first sets out they need to know the difference between Golgotha and Brighthaven. They need to know why my Kingmakers are often at odds with Pax's Watch. They need to be told the basic politic super powers and regimes, what they stand for and why. If we slack in this regard, those people may never continue to play. A tad overboard maybe, but it gets the emphasis across.
That said, don't worry about too much specifics with each group, information brokering is going to be a thing, and each faction can describe itself well enough. Just Name, Region, Behaviour, and Alignment should suffice. We just don't want people screwing up major right from the get-go and being forever ruined by it. This will also help reduce the amount of global spam caused from guilds trying to get more people.
4) Risk v Rewards: What are the risks, what you can generally expect from them, and what are the rewards if you overcome. Simple overview of the bandits, dungeons etc. You could just link a dev blog xD
5) Who to look out for, and Why: This should be also self-explanatory. People/Cos. will get fame and/or infamy and just be sure to drop their names so that when people see them, they understand what they are getting into. This is more of a culture thing, but it will help the newbs get a sense of what the world is like, how much the individual can make an impact, and the sorts of fun and excitement they can look forward to, as well as help them determine what group they want to hook up with and what those groups are.
Agree? Disagree? Comments or questions? I hope this gets discussed in full!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Two points...
Almost all PVP, outside of feuds or wars, results in alignment shifts. That is not "outside" of the system, but actually a part of it. Same thing for PVP that results in reputation loss, not "outside" the system but a part of it.
One aspect of "newb protection" vs. non consensual PVP that seems to be missed is, bringing them into the fold. Not just protecting them from PVP, but teaching them to PVP and become an active participant in the dominance side of PVP.
If we bring players in to become "Wolves", we can also try to mold some of their behaviors away from what GW will consider griefing. Instead we can have them learn and focus on the predatory PVP that is more desired.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like those points! Of course the original points I make should cover the first one, that of proper dissimination of knowledge about the game system, but the second point you bring up is a good argument.
More than just mentioning to them, or watching over them, we as a society need to engage them. They are part of our wolf-pack.
My only concern is, who's pack do they join? The closest one? The one who decides they are the best match for the new recruit?
I saw there needs to be that initial grace period when the player first starts and begins to learn about the world that no factions should actively seek him out to recruit. Instead it should be to teach, and he (or she) should determine what they want before they leave the "safety zone" and once that individual is ready to step into the wider world, they should decide who they will join. And then the real training starts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One aspect of "newb protection" vs. non consensual PVP that seems to be missed is, bringing them into the fold. Not just protecting them from PVP, but teaching them to PVP and become an active participant in the dominance side of PVP.
Completely agree.
If we bring players in to become "Wolves", we can also try to mold some of their behaviors away from what GW will consider griefing. Instead we can have them learn and focus on the predatory PVP that is more desired.
There's something about this that I think can never be reconciled with "don't be a jerk". To me, "Sheep" are the players who are deliberately minimizing their exposure to PvP, and "Wolves" are the players who are deliberately seeking out those "Sheep" as prey. If you're looking for the least-challenging targets who are also the most likely to be personally distraught by your attack, you're being a jerk.
Please understand, I don't think it's wrong to attack someone just because they don't like PvP and usually try to avoid it. I'm saying it's wrong to consistently seek out such targets.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I haven't slept in 36 hours so maybe I am missing something, but......... waaahttttt?@Brother Zeal
Hobs has an initiative for a Guides programs, I wonder why you didn't put that on your list as such an organization you are looking for?
Unofficial Guide Program has its own section in Guild Recruitment & Helpful Links.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's something about this that I think can never be reconciled with "don't be a jerk". To me, "Sheep" are the players who are deliberately minimizing their exposure to PvP, and "Wolves" are the players who are deliberately seeking out those "Sheep" as prey. If you're looking for the least-challenging targets who are also the most likely to be personally distraught by your attack, you're being a jerk.
I personally think that specializing as a bandit to prey on easier targets does not make you a jerk, especially as those targets should not be easy PvP targets (at least merchants should have protection, crafters in town should have protection, and gatherers should bring guards too). It has been said over and over: PvP is not something you can opt out of with this game, so those who do not like PvP will have to learn to become buddies with those who do like PvP to keep themselves alive and functioning. No, it's not the most friendly game for people who don't like PvP, but it's the game that we're going to play, and entirely eliminating the risk of PvP for any group of people would seriously hurt that game (due to the abuses that would follow).
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Goblin Squad Member
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... specializing as a bandit to prey on easier targets does not make you a jerk...
... entirely eliminating the risk of PvP for any group of people...
My sincere apologies if anything I wrote led you to believe I was advocating either of those positions. I was not.
I don't think bandits are jerks for picking easy targets. And I don't think any class of players should be protected from PvP, except of course new Characters who stay in the NPC Starter areas.
I think deliberately seeking out targets who are deliberately minimizing their exposure because they're deliberately minimizing their exposure to PvP makes you a jerk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, Pax Shane hit the nail on the head...
Secondly, there are a variety of "Sheep", and some I will make my primary targets and others, not at all. Sheep is also not really a derogatory term in my mind, just as I'm guessing wolf is not for some of you as well.
The sheep that I want to target are the "fat ones, with a lot of wool and no sheep dogs to watch over them." You would think this is a rare breed of sheep (lamb), but they are not. These are the high risk, too cheap to pay for protection, sheep that cross their fingers and hope the wolves nab some other sheep.
The age of the sheep (lamb) or their location is not a primary consideration. How much wool does it have, and how much protection does it have? Are our primary considerations.
If you are a new sheep, hauling a mother load, in the starter area ("Mule")you will be SAD'd for maximum or just ambushed and we will except the consequences that come along with those rewards.
It is really an issue of how often will these "Mules" be found in the starter areas and will they be treated to equal ridicule as "being jerks".
If it is a rare occurrence for these "mules" to be found in the starter areas, then the experience wolf packs will move further out into the wilderness to find their prey.
I have said it often, lone harvesters picking berries in the woods should have little to fear from organized packs. Not unless those berries are tier 3 (very rare) and valuable.
If that harvester has the combined protection of a Tiger Tank and a B-17 Flying Fortress, he will be left alone regardless of the wealth in his pockets.
Everything comes down to "Risk vs. Reward". If the system is not abused, newbs int eh newb area should present a High Risk, Low Reward Profile. That alone is their best protection.
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, Pax Shane hit the nail on the head...
The age of the sheep (lamb) or their location is not a primary consideration. How much wool does it have, and how much protection does it have? Are our primary considerations.
...
If that harvester has the combined protection of a Tiger Tank and a B-17 Flying Fortress, he will be left alone regardless of the wealth in his pockets....
Did someone mention hitting the nail on the head?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Did someone mention hitting the nail on the head?
Few would have guessed this, and fewer still will understand why, but you just became one of my favorite people :)
Nobody really appreciates the 'eep these days.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Stealin your girls when you shoulda been on the path to easy livin? Well I guess you just have to find the hard way to learn that elusive kiss of freedom before you head into the wild with the most lovely mistress of time to join in the circle of hands.
And now you are thinking: I can see you are taking this waaaayyyyy too far.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think deliberately seeking out targets who are deliberately minimizing their exposure because they're deliberately minimizing their exposure to PvP makes you a jerk.
Ah,on that I would agree. However, that seems like something for GM's to deal with, as knowing people's intentions is hard for a computer. The best targets for banditry will be trying to avoid bandits (obviously), so bandits kinda have to go out of their way to find targets who don't want to PvP.
A possibility that could cut down on this: if an individual's carry capacity is much more limited than a typical MMO, and it becomes required to use groups or transport vehicles (mules, wagons, etc) or both to do enough business to make trips worthwhile. If this is the case, 9 times out of 10 the bandit won't have to trouble with an individual or small group, as they know they won't get much from them even if they're at max capacity with valuables. Only if there aren't enough merchants/gatherers would the bandits have to bother with the small fry to keep themselves afloat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A possibility that could cut down on this: if an individual's carry capacity is much more limited than a typical MMO, and it becomes required to use groups or transport vehicles (mules, wagons, etc) or both to do enough business to make trips worthwhile. If this is the case, 9 times out of 10 the bandit won't have to trouble with an individual or small group, as they know they won't get much from them even if they're at max capacity with valuables. Only if there aren't enough merchants/gatherers would the bandits have to bother with the small fry to keep themselves afloat.
I actually think this will be the case.
I imagine your inventory will depend on what gear (pack) you own, but basically the contents of a small chest could fit in it. As stated many times, caravans and trading and hauling things back and forth is going to be a major factor here.