A 9th level wizard casts Telekinesis.
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target or Targets see text
Duration concentration (up to 1 round/level) or instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (object) or none; see text; Spell Resistance yes (object); see text
You move objects or creatures by concentrating on them. Depending on the version selected, the spell can provide a gentle, sustained force, perform a variety of combat maneuvers, or exert a single short, violent thrust.
Sustained Force: A sustained force moves an object weighing no more than 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level) up to 20 feet per round. A creature can negate the effect on an object it possesses with a successful Will save or with spell resistance.
This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration. The weight can be moved vertically, horizontally, or in both directions. An object cannot be moved beyond your range. The spell ends if the object is forced beyond the range. If you cease concentration for any reason, the object falls or stops.
An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand. For example, a lever or rope can be pulled, a key can be turned, an object rotated, and so on, if the force required is within the weight limitation. You might even be able to untie simple knots, though delicate activities such as these require DC 15 Intelligence checks.
Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you add your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.
Violent Thrust: Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).
You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Objects and creatures that miss their target land in a square adjacent to the target.
Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell.
If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).
He could opt to lift an opponent into the air using Sustained Force, then drop him. 225lbs, for 9 rounds at 20ft. per round. That's 180ft into the air, with the opponent presumably getting a save every round, correct? Dropped, that opponent would take 18d6 damage, by my reckoning.
Alternatively, the wizard could use Violent Thrust, to hurl up to 9 creatures with a total weight of 225lbs (let's assume one opponent). That opponent would get ONE Will save, and if failed would be hurled 90ft. "towards one target".
Now...the final sentence reads: "If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points)." What if the opponent is hurled straight up? 90ft straight up is still 90ft straight down (9d6 damage)...?
As far as I know, the target gets one save, regardless of whether he is held over a long period or hurled immediately.
2nd Ravingdork
also, yes. I've always used it to throw someone up for this reason.
(unless there is a cliff nearby!!!)
On hurling straight up: There's no specific target to throw them towards, other than some arbitrary point in space (why not?), and as a 5th level spell, there's nothing overpowered about a 9d6 direct-damage spell. As a GM, I'd probably allow it, but I was hoping to get experienced input on this spell, especially since that last sentence indicates it's only 1d6 to hurl someone against a solid surface.
Do keep in mind that when you move up vertically, you move at half speed. So if you could normally hurl someone 90 ft. you can only hurl them 45 ft. upwards.
2nd Lifat
However, experienced player or novice, 1d6 is sadly 1d6.
sorry
oh and btw. No you cannot move a creature with sustained force. Sustained force is a paragraph in itself that never mentions the ability to move creatures. It specifically states objects (and creatures are not objects) with a specific weight limit.
Reading telekinesis means that it is sort of crap for anything other than hurling a lot of sharp objects at a creature or use it for combat maneuvers. Or pushing people over edges that are very high up.
225lbs of either sustained force or violent thrust.
The spell indicates that attended items can be affected (with a Will Save). I'm thinking of opponents' boots, breastplates, belts, etc.
You do realize that the weight limit is a lot smaller than you think. The weight system in Pathfinder is, mostly, worthless. You could have a Strength 36 fighter, who only weighs some 90 pounds. All RAW, all legal, makes no sense. Realistically the average humanoid is going to be somewhere between 100 and 200 pounds. By the time characters done placing their gear, it's not all that unrealistic for them to have over 100 lbs. of gear.
The point is, that when you start looking at the actual weight of a character (gear + body), the weight limit on sustained force is abysmally small.
A healthy average sized human male is supposed to be between 150 - 200 pounds depending on height. The average height is 5'8" last time I checked, so I would hazard 180 pounds to be average. That leaves you a little less than 50 pounds of gear. Between armor, weapons, back packs, etc. you don't have much room.
Do keep in mind that when you move up vertically, you move at half speed. So if you could normally hurl someone 90 ft. you can only hurl them 45 ft. upwards.There's a difference between moving yourself and forced movement. Normally a human can only move 30 ft. per move action but if he walks out over a cliff face he falls 500 ft. within the first round.
A creature blown away by powerful wind moves exactly what the rules indicate and that movement isn't hindered by standard movement rules for flying creatures.
Blown Away Size: Creatures on the ground are knocked prone and rolled 1d4 × 10 feet, taking 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per 10 feet, unless they make a DC 15 Strength check. Flying creatures are blown back 2d6 × 10 feet and take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage due to battering and buffeting, unless they succeed on a DC 25 Fly skill check.
So a creature blown away is knocked prone and then pushed across the ground. Looks a bit like this.
Nothing mentioned about creatures being blown up into the air. As for why someone doesn't take a full 9d6 damage for being blown away 90 ft. with Telekinesis is simple, Telekinesis doesn't keep accelerating. When you fall, you keep accelerating until you hit terminal velocity; in Pathfinder, this is 200 ft. and the maximum distance you can fall per round is 500 ft.
A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall.
Of course, you won't find a RAW effects of gravity, this is merely logical deductions. If you want RAW, then you can't pick and choose RAW to follow. RAW says 1d6 for Telekensis. RAW also says half speed when you move upward, it doesn't really matter where the source of movement is from.
Thanks for bringing up wind effects, Tels. If I'm ever in-game or in a discussion about wind and its effects, I'll be sure to reference what you've posted here. In the meantime, my question pertained to the spell telekinesis, and whether or not one could propel an opponent (or something the opponent is wearing or holding or standing-on) into the air.
A sustained force can move something 20' per round, according to RAW. (We all know how important RAW is, after all). I'm going to assume this means any direction, even straight up. The rules for Flying don't mention telekinesis.
A violent thrust can move something or someone up to 10ft per caster level. It doesn't mention if that target is lateral or not. In-fact, it's that last sentence that puzzles me. When would it be useful to do 1d6 damage to someone in a CR9 encounter? Taking out a kobold guard?
As you can clearly see a flying creature moves outside of the rules of flying when experiencing the "blown away" step. Forced movement is outside the normal rules of movement for flying. Also a character that makes a fly check of 20+ can move upwards at a greater angle than 45 degrees (which is the reason you move at half speed upwards). Not saying that telekinesis should get to blow people straight up into the air but I am saying that your reasoning for not allowing it isn't really RAW.Blown Away Size: Creatures on the ground are knocked prone and rolled 1d4 × 10 feet, taking 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per 10 feet, unless they make a DC 15 Strength check. Flying creatures are blown back 2d6 × 10 feet and take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage due to battering and buffeting, unless they succeed on a DC 25 Fly skill check.So a creature blown away is knocked prone and then pushed across the ground. Looks a bit like this.
Nothing mentioned about creatures being blown up into the air. As for why someone doesn't take a full 9d6 damage for being blown away 90 ft. with Telekinesis is simple, Telekinesis doesn't keep accelerating. When you fall, you keep accelerating until you hit terminal velocity; in Pathfinder, this is 200 ft. and the maximum distance you can fall per round is 500 ft.
A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall.Of course, you won't find a RAW effects of gravity, this is merely logical deductions. If you want RAW, then you can't pick and choose RAW to follow. RAW says 1d6 for Telekensis. RAW also says half speed when you move upward, it doesn't really matter where the source of movement is from.
I understand it's not RAW, but if you want to bring RAW into it, then even if you violently thrust someone 90 ft. up, they only take 1d6 points of damage, because the RAW spell says so.
Falling damage is the 'general' rule, and 'generally' if you fall 90 ft. you take 9d6 damage. However, in Pathfinder, specific > general, so since Telekinesis specifically says violent thrust deals 1d6 damage if a creature is thrust into something, then Telekinesis overrules the general falling rules.
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I am not certain that the sustained lift can't be used on a creature, as long as you target gear they have on (a piece of armor for example), and they fail the save, and they are under the weight allowance (would have to tally everything since the armor is attached and you have to lift the whole package). It does state that at the end of the duration or when concentration ends, the target falls. No damage is listed because fall damage is already covered and applies to any fall unless specifically stated otherwise, this does not state otherwise, it just says they fall.
Now, nothing saying the target can't use ranged attacks on the caster to force concentration checks, or strip off/release the piece of gear that they feel being lifted, or anything else that could "fight back".
I would say it is valid enough possibility to look for an official response... I know I would allow it in my games because it is in line with other equal level damage spells and it limits the caster due to the concentration and relatively slow rate of lift.
I am not certain that the sustained lift can't be used on a creature, as long as you target gear they have on (a piece of armor for example), and they fail the save, and they are under the weight allowance (would have to tally everything since the armor is attached and you have to lift the whole package). It does state that at the end of the duration or when concentration ends, the target falls. No damage is listed because fall damage is already covered and applies to any fall unless specifically stated otherwise, this does not state otherwise, it just says they fall.
Now, nothing saying the target can't use ranged attacks on the caster to force concentration checks, or strip off/release the piece of gear that they feel being lifted, or anything else that could "fight back".
I would say it is valid enough possibility to look for an official response... I know I would allow it in my games because it is in line with other equal level damage spells and it limits the caster due to the concentration and relatively slow rate of lift.
This is the exact wording of telekinesis sustained force:
Sustained Force: A sustained force moves an object weighing no more than 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level) up to 20 feet per round. A creature can negate the effect on an object it possesses with a successful Will save or with spell resistance.
This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration. The weight can be moved vertically, horizontally, or in both directions. An object cannot be moved beyond your range. The spell ends if the object is forced beyond the range. If you cease concentration for any reason, the object falls or stops.
An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand. For example, a lever or rope can be pulled, a key can be turned, an object rotated, and so on, if the force required is within the weight limitation. You might even be able to untie simple knots, though...
They understand you can use Sustained Force to target a creature, what they are saying is to use Sustained Force to target the creature's gear. Target a fighter's armor, and Fighter gets a will save to resist his armor being moved. If he fails (and the Fighter and all his gear including his armor are under the weight limit) then the armor is lifted. Since the fighter is wearing the armor, he gets lifted too. If he could quickly shirk off his armor, then he would drop as the armor is still being levitated.
That is a valid use of Sustatined Force, the problem is the weight limit.