Hellknight - Smite Chaos.

[Shifty]

Two parter.

1: When applying to the Smite Chaos feature of the PrC, do you take your total levels, or are you effectively only applying the HK levels? Seems like a -5 level smite, which is a tad weak.

OR no, because it might be twice as good?

2: Smite Chaos is simply 'twice as good'? The wording is strange - not applying a first strike limit, but apparently an unfettered multiplication of effectiveness...per below.

Smite Evil Text:

Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

Smite Chaos Text:

Smite Chaos (Su)

This ability functions as the paladin's smite evil ability, but against chaotic-aligned creatures. This ability is twice as effective against outsiders with the chaotic subtype, chaotic-aligned aberrations, and fey.

It simply says 'twice as effective', doesn't talk about number of times or what is twice as effective, for all we know this applies to the AC bonus too. It doesn't say only the first hit is effective like the SE does, it simply says 'twice as effective'. Totally different wording.

So maybe its not 'weaker', just different?

[Avianfoo]

Hellknight Commander's ability is a bit loosely defined.

As I understand it, it uses the Hellknight prestige levels as the "paladin" levels. So that already makes the smite weaker than a full paladins smite.

Secondly I believe it replaces the "outsiders with evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature" with "outsiders with chaotic subtype, chaotic-aligned aberrations, and fey".

[Shifty]

There's a lot in that PrC that seems plain wonky and broken. The mroe I read it the more busted and unexplained bits I find :p

Thanks Avianfoo :)

[KainPen]

I think it is word that way to actual make it as effective as smite evil. becasue there is only 10 levels in hellknight, but 20 in paladin. you are still limited 4 times per day 3 less then paladin. a level 20 Paladin is going to end up with +20 damage to normal smite evil. while a hellknight only as a +10 damage. So a paladin end up with +40 damage at level 20 vs dragons ect, and hell knight also has +40 at vs chaotic sub. Min level for this would be level 15.

I am trying to play one now. I am level 8 already and still have not found a hell knight to watch me beat a devil with greater hit dice. That is if I can even beat one in one combat. The higher level you go I think the hard and hard this becomes. I will more then likely be level 10 before having the gear to be able to do this. I would not say it is broken, if anything it is weaker overall because you can do it few times per day, and you do less damage to a target that is not outsiders with the chaotic subtype, chaotic-aligned aberrations, and fey. compared to paladins smite. You may not get it until to that power until level 20 same as paladin if at all. Depens on if you your DM allows retraning. If he does not and you can't defeat a devil with greater hit dice then you. until level 12 or 14. use just lost 2 or 4 levels of hellknight class.

[Shifty]

Yeah I see what you mean.

It does appear to be pretty bad when you look at it that way, less tha half the ability of a like-level Paladin. Indeed a Paladin becoming a Hellknight would be significantly impaired.

[CanisDirus]

Shifty wrote:

2: Smite Chaos is simply 'twice as good'? The wording is strange - not applying a first strike limit, but apparently an unfettered multiplication of effectiveness...per below.

** spoiler omitted **

It simply says 'twice as effective', doesn't talk about number of times or what is twice as effective, for all we know this applies to the AC bonus too. It doesn't say only the first hit is effective like the SE does, it simply says 'twice as effective'. Totally different wording.

I'm gearing up a Hellknight idea for Wrath of the Righteous AP, and I just noticed the "twice as effective" bit... I don't suppose anyone's found out what that means mechanically between when this thread started and now?

[master_marshmallow]

.

[CanisDirus]

Here's hoping that when "Path of the Hellknight" comes out in a few months, that it'll fix/clarify the language on this one!

[dragonhunterq]

CanisDirus wrote:

I'm gearing up a Hellknight idea for Wrath of the Righteous AP, and I just noticed the "twice as effective" bit... I don't suppose anyone's found out what that means mechanically between when this thread started and now?

Avianfoo wrote:

I believe it replaces the "outsiders with evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature" with "outsiders with chaotic subtype, chaotic-aligned aberrations, and fey".

That's as good an answer as any I've seen.