Ravingdork's thread about a fighter with an eldritch heritage got me thinking, and wanting to mock something up as a result. That's where it started, but then, I wanted other things, too. So what started as a simple thing wound up as an insanely MAD half-elf. I'd like to share it, and see if the concept is playable in your opinion, also, if someone has Faiths and Philosophies (my copy has not arrived as yet), and I've got the feats from there wrong, please correct me. So, here goes ...
Arvandian, Knight of the Thorn Grove
Race : Half-Elf
AL : NG
Str 16 (+2) Dex 15 Int 8 Wis 13 Con 12 Cha 14
1 Fighter - Skill Focus (knowledge : nature), Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting
2 Barbarian (titan mauler) - big game hunter
3 Barbarian - Eldritch Heritage (Fey), reckless abandon, jotungrip
4 Ranger (spirit guide)- +1 STR
5 Ranger - Nature Soul, Double Slice
6 Ranger
7 Ranger - Animal Ally
8 Ranger - +1 CHA
9 Ranger - Boon Companion, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10 Fighter - Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Ranger - Improved Eldritch Heritage
12 Ranger - +1 STR
13 Ranger - Critical Focus
14 Ranger - Two-Weapon Rend
15 Ranger - Staggering Critical
16 Fighter - +1 STR
17 Fighter - Weapon Specialization (nodachi), Stunning Critical
18 Fighter
19 Fighter - (2 feats)
20 Fighter +1 STR
So, he casts a few ranger spells, gets ranger features up to Quarry, has a full progression animal companion ( I think is how it works ), dual wields nodachis (buffing with lead blades), rages a little bit, turns invisible for a few rounds per day, and can daze once he acquires a Conductive weapon. He has good saves and full BAB. I'm thinking weapon master for a fighter archetype to get better attack bonus progression but I'm not sure. So as a concept what do you think? I know it's not supercharged powerful, but it's kind of interesting in a mystic nature defending warrior kind of way. Like a knight of a fey court, or something. The only issue is of course, the penalties associated with TWF, and the expense of enchanting two weapons. One of them will have Conductive to channel Laughing Touch through it, both will have Keen, and I was kind of thinking the off hand could have Defending. Impact is too pricy and there's some debate whether it stacks with lead blades anyways. Lead Blades is just cheaper. I'd like to fit Improved Critical (nodachi) in the build somewhere, but I can't figure out just where. Anyways, just thought I'd share, and thanks Ravingdork for the inspiration! (sorry I didn't post it in your thread, it's devolved into a rules discussion about eldritch heritage and wildblooded, so I checked out)
Thanks for looking it over everyone!
How are you dual wielding Nodachis? They're 2-handed weapons arent they? Katanas would be a proper substitue I believe.
How are you dual wielding Nodachis? They're 2-handed weapons arent they? Katanas would be a proper substitue I believe.
with the Barbarian titan mauler archetype ability jotungrip. It's mostly a flavor thing, I guess. Plus they handle lead blades really well, going from 1d10 to 2d8, a pretty good jump.
That seems a bit cheesy. Still, are you allowed to use TWF with jotungrip? You'll have quite a hard time to hit (although not that bad since you're full BAB) but when you do... I would not want to face that character. Dont forget though, when your off hand weapon isnt light, you get -4 on both hands.
Still, as a concept it is quite interesting. Creative use of the Eldritch heritage. I've been trying to do the same using the rakshasa heritage for a ninja character. If I have time i'll post it up soon. I would build it up as sort of a seducer/spy with martial arts skill (a few levels in monk).
conductive on that sucker, yeesh. one of the better uses of MAD i've seen
Here's the character idea: Sort of a spy/infiltrator. I'm maxing out disguise, bluff, diplomacy, sleight of hand. Probably disguises herself as a noblewoman, a prostitute, a merchant. On top of that, using crane style, and not wearing any armor (which would make sense for an infiltrator), you have Dex, Cha and Wis contributing to AC. Also a fun example of MAD. She'd probably also be armed with easily concealed weapons, like the battle fan.
Name : Ymiko, Human
AL : N
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 15
1 Martial artist - Skill Focus (disguise), Weapon Finesse, Dodge
2 Ninja
3 Ninja- Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa) ; Ninja trick: Hidden Weapons
4 Ninja- +1 Cha
5 Ninja- Crane Style; NT: Vanishing Trick
6 Martial Artist- Feat: Crane Wing
7 Ninja- Iron Will;
8 Ninja- NT: Darkvision +1 Wis
9 Ninja- Osyluth Guile
10 Ninja- NT: Fast Stealth
11 Ninja- Improved Eldritch Heritage (not sure which ability to take)
12 Ninja- NT: Invisible Blade +1 Dex
13 Ninja- (Feat)
14 Ninja - NT
15 Ninja (Feat)
16 Ninja – NT () +1 Cha
17 Ninja- Greater Eldritch Heritage
18 Ninja NT
19 Ninja (Feat)
20 Ninja NT () +1Dex
you wrote con instead of wis
Sorry. Any other comments?
a sturdy stealth character, nice...maybe hide aura as the improved selection? Between silver tongue and maxing out bluff and diplomacy, she shouldn't have to much of a problem getting people to spill the beans. maybe throw a skill focus (sense motive) somewhere in there.
Yeah, that sense motive could be useful. Still, I'd have to find a social-centric (maybe political?) campaign to play it in. Tricking people by day, poisoning them by night. What fun! Still, the eldritch heritage choice would be between the level 3 skill and the level 9 one, so I'd have no choice to get silver tongue.
Yeah, that sense motive could be useful. Still, I'd have to find a social-centric (maybe political?) campaign to play it in. Tricking people by day, poisoning them by night. What fun! Still, the eldritch heritage choice would be between the level 3 skill and the level 9 one, so I'd have no choice to get silver tongue.
that's why I recommended hide aura, as it's a nice compliment to the 1st level silver tongue ability. Reading minds is useful, but circumventable(...that's not a real word) enough with skill investment and silvered tongue to not be necessary.
I did the calculations, and with the best ability improving items, as well as ring of protection, ring of natural armor, bracers of armor, and defensive fighting, she'd have an AC of 49! I've been trying to build a decent dodge based character for a while, and I'ts nice to have one that has a decent AC.
Edit: I got ninja'd. But yeah, silver tongue at this point is more of an insurance than an essential ability. The most important skill (that unfortunately comes very late) is alter self at will.
I do like the sturdy scout types, it just makes sense.
Remember that when you dual-wield the nodachi's you are taking the TWF penalties (-4/-4) and the jotungrip penalties of -2 for each thus bringing your total to hit +18 for the first hit (20 BAB + 5 Str + 1 Weapon Focus - 4 TWF - 2 jotungrip(nodachi 1) - 2 jotungrip(nodachi 2) = + 18)
However if you add in the Rage form the Barbarian it becomes a + 20 to hit and if you take the Reckless Abandon Rage Power you can have + 25 to hit at the cost of 5 AC (Unless the Reckless Abandon Rage Power only counts for Barbarian Levels then you are at a + 21 to hit with a - 1 to AC)
P.S. I don't do so well with calculating the iterative attacks when it comes to TWF... I don't know why and I know it is a simple matter I just don't fully understand it is it a penalty to the highest BAB the person has for ITWF and GTWF or is it off of one of the other iterative attacks? If so which for each?
EDIT: What is the Spirit Guide Ranger Archetype? If you meant Spirit Ranger then you don't get the Animal Companion but if you meant something else then what did you mean?
Remember that when you dual-wield the nodachi's you are taking the TWF penalties (-4/-4) and the jotungrip penalties of -2 for each thus bringing your total to hit +18 for the first hit (20 BAB + 5 Str + 1 Weapon Focus - 4 TWF - 2 jotungrip(nodachi 1) - 2 jotungrip(nodachi 2) = + 18)
However if you add in the Rage form the Barbarian it becomes a + 20 to hit and if you take the Reckless Abandon Rage Power you can have + 25 to hit at the cost of 5 AC (Unless the Reckless Abandon Rage Power only counts for Barbarian Levels then you are at a + 21 to hit with a - 1 to AC)
P.S. I don't do so well with calculating the iterative attacks when it comes to TWF... I don't know why and I know it is a simple matter I just don't fully understand it is it a penalty to the highest BAB the person has for ITWF and GTWF or is it off of one of the other iterative attacks? If so which for each?
EDIT: What is the Spirit Guide Ranger Archetype? If you meant Spirit Ranger then you don't get the Animal Companion but if you meant something else then what did you mean?
Yeah, I was wondering about the penalties. If it would be -8/-8 with TWF, I assume the penalties would stack. The way I read reckless abandon it would only count barbarian levels. It was sort of a bonus prize for barbarian levels.
Spirit ranger is what I meant... I was looking for a ranger archetype that traded in hunter's bond for something, and that was the best I could find. Well, Freebooter is probably better but it doesn't really fit the theme. Then I regain my companion through the feats from Faiths and Philosophies, with a full progression instead of a really bad one. I am thinking about going with a two - handed route for this character instead. I could ease up on the Dex then, and take far smaller to-hit penalties. If I do that I suppose I'd add a third level in Barbarian (because wielding a giant katana sounds like fun!) and scale back ranger levels (because the 2H bonus feat route is far less appealing than TWF) in favor of more fighter levels or even more barbarian levels.
jotungrip doesn't let you use a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand... it lets you use weapons built for larger sized creatures without penalty (or with reduced penalty) when you use the correct number of hands. for example- you kill a cloud giant and win his super-awesome +5 shortsword of kicking ass... this huge sized light weapon could be used as a one-handed weapon by a large sized creature (with -2 for being one size off) or as a two-handed weapon by a medium sized creature (with -4, i believe, for being 2 sizes off); a small creature could not use it at all (unless, maybe, you had a third arm and could sell you GM on it being a '3-handed weapon' lol). jotungrip does not change how many hands it takes to wield a weapon (or the maximum size weapon you can wield), it just reduces the penalties for wielding these odd weapons.
i know someone is going to complain about how that power is terrible then, and why would they even bother... yes, it is worse than it seems on a casual read- i think they put it in for exactly the reason in my example, if the archetype is supposed to kill giants it would be handy for them to have the option to use some of the weapons they find (instead of always having to sell at half price and then look for something suitable to buy at full price).
jotungrip doesn't let you use a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand... it lets you use weapons built for larger sized creatures without penalty (or with reduced penalty) when you use the correct number of hands. for example- you kill a cloud giant and win his super-awesome +5 shortsword of kicking ass... this huge sized light weapon could be used as a one-handed weapon by a large sized creature (with -2 for being one size off) or as a two-handed weapon by a medium sized creature (with -4, i believe, for being 2 sizes off); a small creature could not use it at all (unless, maybe, you had a third arm and could sell you GM on it being a '3-handed weapon' lol). jotungrip does not change how many hands it takes to wield a weapon (or the maximum size weapon you can wield), it just reduces the penalties for wielding these odd weapons.
i know someone is going to complain about how that power is terrible then, and why would they even bother... yes, it is worse than it seems on a casual read- i think they put it in for exactly the reason in my example, if the archetype is supposed to kill giants it would be handy for them to have the option to use some of the weapons they find (instead of always having to sell at half price and then look for something suitable to buy at full price).
Jotungrip lets you use a two-handed weapon in one hand. Massive Weapons (the level 3 ability) lets you use weapons built for larger creatures with a reduced penalty. So a Large shortsword would fall under the purview of Massive Weapons (letting you use it at a reduced penalty as a one-handed weapon, or as a two-handed weapon by a Small creature with a greater penalty) while picking up a Medium greatsword one-handed is what jotungrip lets you do. What jotungrip looks like it SHOULD do, and I think the guy who wrote the rule said was intended to do (yet someone seems to have overruled him because they have never changed it and in fact issued a FAQ to the contrary of what the rule-writer said his intent was...he said he intended to "break the weapon size rule but forgot to word it that way") is allow you to use oversized weapons in the one hand. So I couldn't pick up a Large Longsword in one hand with jotungrip, but I could pick up a Medium Greatsword one-handed. I could use a Large katana as a two-handed weapon with Massive Weapons lowering the penalty for doing so. I still could not use a Large Greatsword at all. The Ultimate Combat FAQ clears that up pretty nicely, I think. One of the most confusing archetypes ever written, but it still does a couple of nice things, the later ability to ignore a creature's reach can be pretty awesome. Unless there's some other ruling besides that FAQ out there that I'm unaware of, pretty sure that's how jotungrip works.
i'm sorry- i was totally thinking of massive weapon [/hang head in shame]
that'll teach me to not double check class powers before posting. thanks for the clarification; it does look like there was an FAQ post on it but not to change it, just to clarify what you clarified here.
Nuclear you are right Nate you are wrong because I was just building a TWF Titan Mauler 2/ Two-Weapon Warrior 18 a couple days ago picking up the 2 levels in Titan Mauler just so I could use a Great Sword in one hand and in my of hand I was going to use a Bastard Sword... 2d6 + 1d10 + Str Bonus (twice because of Double Slice) etc...
If you want to do what you suggested with the Large Katana then I would suggest Titan Mauler 6/ Two-Handed Fighter Just so you aren't taking penalties on the Large Katana (unless you think you can over come them and/or you want more feats than a Titan Mauler 3/ Two-Handed Fighter 15/ (any class you want) 2 (For this one I would suggest Ragechemist Alchemist because you get a +6 to Str and a +4 to AC for a -2 to Int at level 2 of that Archetype now granted you are looking at a +19 BAB over a +20 but I think that the extra +6 Str off sets that.)
Edit: Ninja'd with the first paragraph of my post... Sorry Nate!