Telekinesis (and Chain of Perdition) with Oracles

[DrakeRoberts]

Okay, so in the last 3 months there was a ruling/FAQ that Spiritual Weapon-casting oracles still use wisdom rather than charisma because the spell does not call out the exception. However, that spell just says to use wisdom, it doesn't have the language of Telekinesis (which Haunted oracles get) nor Chain of Perdition (which can be taken by oracles) which list various spellcaster classes and which stat they use. Oracle is not mentioned in either (which, is understandable... oracle came later). However, the same logic used for Spiritual Weapon can't be used for these. So the question is: Do oracles use their charisma for these because that is their main casting stat? Or do they perhaps use wisdom since they take their spells off the cleric list? Telekinesis likely wouldn't do the latter since its not even on the cleric list.

Please help.

[DrakeRoberts]

Anyone have any ideas?

[DrakeRoberts]

*bump* Am I missing something obvious that nobody is responding, or is my question title so boring nobody is reading this? :)

[SmiloDan]

RAW, it's Wisdom, but feel free to houserule with your GM's permision.

[Xaratherus]

@SmiloDan: In regards to Telekinesis, I have to disagree.

You could make a decent argument regarding Chain of Perdition because it exists on the Cleric list, but Telekinesis isn't. Oracles gain access to it through the Ancestors mystery, so it would be sort of a silly ruling to state that it uses the caster stat of a class that doesn't even have access to the spell.

[DrakeRoberts]

This was sort of my point. I get that RAW Spiritual Weapon is Wisdom, and that the FAQ clarified that. While I disagree with that particular ruling, this thread was not meant to undermine it. These other two spells (there may be others, but these two I've encountered) don't work RAW the way that Spiritual Weapon does because they list different attributes for different classes, none of which is Oracle. Spiritual Weapon, on the other hand, doesn't mention difference for different classes, just one set attribute.

[Jim Groves]

This is not official. I am not licensed to make official statements. Those have to come from Jason, SKR, and SRM.

That said, I am the author of Chain of Perdition.

My *opinion* is that that relevant ability used is the primary ability that the class casts with. That is why I called out three different classes with three different dependent ability modifiers.

So, since Oracles rely on Charisma.. that would be Charisma.

There is never any intent to gimp a class from a fully functional use of a spell. If you're going to allow the class to use the spell at all, they should use it equally well as any other class that is allowed to have it. For a cleric, sorcerer, or wizard to use the spell effectively, but the oracle to somehow extra specially suck at it because of a different primary casting ability than that of a cleric just sucks and makes zero sense. Why even allow them to have it then? RAW be damned, let common sense reign supreme.

[Kroama]

Sorry for bringing up an old discussion, but my current Oracle is facing this very dilemma where my GM suggested it wouldn't use Charisma whereas in my opinion that didn't make sense... It specifically mentioned three different classes, but was on the Oracle's spell list... it would make more sense for them just not to get any casting stat bonus to it at all the way it's worded.

I'll try convincing them with what you say as the author of the spell, but i would love to have an official statement on the spell. I absolutely love it as a spell because it's fun to use and a good thing to throw out for my Oracle as she is now... I would hate to have to give it up now that a GM points out it might not be even remotely utilizable.

[DM Beckett]

Personally, I kind of like it being a better Clericy spell than Oracle, so I would probably rule that they use Wisdom similar to the reasoning for Spiritual Weapon. Oracles also tend to get much better use out of Cha than Clerics do Wis, so I think it is a good thing when that is not always the case, and I don't think it's really going to ruin the game, but that's just my opinion. Even if it was not an intentional omission, I believe that Oracles came out before that spell, but I could be wrong.