Goblin Squad Member
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So in another thread (see Alignment)I've been advocating for True Neutral (as opposed to simple neutrality), thinking it should be similar to Lawful or Evil in that it is a cardinal power, and we were discussing what sort of acts would define 'True Neutrality'. In the course of that conversation it occurred to me that Druids really need a line of crafting to fill out the Druid spells 'Shape Wood' and 'Shape Stone'.
I'm imagining the ability to craft Staves, Wands, Longbows, Wooden Shields, and whatever stone constructions are desirable using Druidic spellcraft.
Then I realized I needed a Crafting thread for ideas about crafting in general.
How do you imagine crafting should work in Pathfinder online?
Good idea Being :) when I return from my appointment I will try and pull what's been said so far about crafting so we will have a baseline to work from. Sound good?
Or if someone else wants to do it?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Good idea Being :) when I return from my appointment I will try and pull what's been said so far about crafting so we will have a baseline to work from. Sound good?
Or if someone else wants to do it?
What I've gathered so far on my the fan site wiki:
Crafting
At the top of the production system are the crafters. These are characters who have the ability to utilize a crafting facility to convert components into finished goods that can be used by other characters to accomplish useful work. Weapons, armor, meals, potions, wands, repair kits, construction components, kit and tack, tools, and many more products will come to market from the crafter's workshops.
As a crafter, you'll need to seek out knowledge to ply your trade. You'll be searching for the training needed to master skills and earn merit badges associated with each type of product you wish to produce. Over time, you'll learn more exotic variations and ways to fine-tune items to meet specific market needs. Good crafters are a combination of scholar and smith; you'll learn by doing, and will constantly seek more knowledge to expand your skill set.
Input and Output
The crafter needs to purchase a wide variety of intermediate components produced by processors. Each type of good you wish to make will require a variety of components. The more complex the final product, the more complex the ingredients of the job. Substituting lower-quality components may work, but the result will be less valuable than the average example of that type of good. Likewise, finding ways to use higher-quality components may lead a crafter to producing exceptional work that will carry a price premium.
Once the necessary materials are assembled, you'll engage the services of a workshop to complete the job. These workshops are buildings found in settlements, and they are staffed by common folk. Unlike processors, who may be able to operate many jobs in many locations, crafters will need to be present and engaged with the task of production to ensure that it is successful. From time to time during the crafting job, you'll be informed that your assistance is needed, usually in the form of acquiring and supplying unanticipated components—which may be available only in distant locations or may be derived from the bodies of various esoteric beasts or rarely visited locales! There may be more active engagement with the crafting job as well; we envision many sorts of "mini-games" that crafters will participate in to ensure their jobs are completed.
If you're not available when a crafting job requires your attention, work will be halted until you're able to unblock the logjam. Operating several crafting jobs simultaneously will require crafters who are able to juggle many overlapping demands on their time effectively!
Also, like the work of processors, things that affect the settlement and the common folk will impact the pace of crafting jobs.
Selling
Once your crafting job has been completed, you'll need to move the finished goods to market. This means that transport will be required, along with the necessary guards and scouts to keep the caravan safe. Wise crafters will also need to know where the best price can be had for their goods—something that will change fluidly based on conditions throughout the Crusader Road. Sites of battles will be great places to liquidate war material. Settlements near known adventuring sites will likely have a brisk market in the consumables adventurers crave. And whenever a hex is being developed, people will want to create new buildings and structures which in turn require many types of components and support that must be provided by crafters.
Excellent! Thank you Dakcenturi!
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Goblin Squad Member
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If Druidic spellcraft is to fit into the Crafting system then each element described above would need to be replicated in some manner. That means a big increase in the spell categories of shaping for the Druid class, but it should be workable if the devs are agreeable.
I would recommend, however, that the only wood appropriate for spell crafting is not cut wood, but down wood (trees that have fallen over naturally, or branches fallen in the woods).
The Druid at the earliest stages would begin by shaping components. Hopefully in time there would be High level Druidic craftspersons needing those components. Regular people in their travels might come across down wood, and knowing its value to the druids harvest it to sell to the aspiring Druidic craftsmen. High level Druids then might shape the finished products similarly as regular woodworkers would.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being, brilliant ideas about the druid spells for crafting. Druids always been one of my favourite classes since I played AD&D first edition.
In PFO will probably the first place were we can put many spells, skills, feats and other to good use. I like the idea of a druid crafter.
Being, how do you see Druidic, and Ranger? Crafting vs. what's said above for standard crafters, like a blacksmith using a towns processing facilities the turn ore into ingots.
I'm curious as to if Druids would use the same facilities? I wouldn't think so, but maybe they would?
Initially I'm seeing Druidic crafting as more akin to say a mages. Spell research ie. a specialized type of thing that's non traditional like woodworking, blacksmithing etc..
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the majority would rather have rangers use normal means to produce standard arrows or bows. Specialized, high level items might be different and I think people would accept that.
What do you all think?
My question is the profitability/equability of crafted items as opposed to items gained through PvE/PvP contents. In most games the crafted items are useful sometimes or there are only a tiny handful of items that are worth using. Additionally I am very excited to see what they add in, the crafting system itself sounds like fun.
They have pretty much said that crafted gear will be the best stuff. Drops will be decent quality, but your good stuff comes from crafting.
Oh I'm sure there will be great drops from rare creatures and mega dungeons, but it won't be the gear grubbing like you see in Wow. Eternally chasing sets of armor etc..
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Goblin Squad Member
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Druids I blieve would use different facilities for some things, but would need town-crafted items for others I think.
Druids have 'shaping' spells in PF:TT like 'Shape Wood'. With a spell they can turn wood into various shapes. like staff or bow or cudgel.
I suspect the system used woul be similar, and if the items were going to be superior I think there would be a greater chance at failure, plus thre wouldn't bee laborers working for them in their off hours either, or so it would seem to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the idea of using spells as optional components in building or crafting, which lead to faster and/or better buildings/crafted items. However, you have to be careful with that sort of thing.
This is something that Pathfinder (as a tabletop) does not get right: casters simply make the best crafters, especially prepared ones. There's a list of reasons why, really: some of this in the game is because there's no necessity to craft the base items (such making boots before enchanting them with spider climb), some of it is because of the Christmas tree effect at later levels, etc.
I'm not saying casters shouldn't be the best crafters, I'm saying the best crafters shouldn't have to be casters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One thing I would like to see in the crafting system is a varied outcome, based on skill, quality of materials, quality of pattern or recipe, and than a critical success or failure roll.
If the result is a critical success that the crafter could add an additional "personal " tweak to the item created.
Crafted items must also have a tag in their description identifying their crafter and his or her skill. Also, obviously the quality of the item and wether or not it was the result of a critical success.
Another necessity is for the crafter to be able to determine the color of the item, by adding dyes or other additional materials to do so.
One thing I would like to see in the crafting system is a varied outcome, based on skill, quality of materials, quality of pattern or recipe, and than a critical success or failure roll.
If the result is a critical success that the crafter could add an additional "personal " tweak to the item created.
Crafted items must also have a tag in their description identifying their crafter and his or her skill. Also, obviously the quality of the item and wether or not it was the result of a critical success.
Another necessity is for the crafter to be able to determine the color of the item, by adding dyes or other additional materials to do so.
They have said that the components you use will effect an items quality. Really like this idea.
They also said that you can produce items of exceptional quality. I hope at that point you will have additional options to alter, or tailor an item to make it more "your own" work.
Being able to color an item, and having an items description list who made it are two important things (I believe).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think it's necessary to add much in the way of druidic crafting, rather, there could be druidic recipes added to crafting skills that work a bit differently in their requirements, as there are no classes, a new system is not needed, rather you can just add crafting that has druidic requirements as well, such as shaping certain staves with carpentry using druid skills, or even harvesting specific resources requiring druid skills. So it might take, say (and this is a completly made up example)living greenwood as a resource, that requires a druid's magic to harvest, and that living greenwood is a required component to make a type of druid staff in whatever skill makes magic staves, it may also require "shaping", which is a druid ability, so only druids can make it.
That sort of thing, anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The druid could, of course, also make other magical staves using the more standard tools of the staff making skill, as they would need that skill.
I could see the same thing happening with specific sort of enchantments and things coming from other classes, a priest could add some divine imbuements into staves they craft using clerical requirements.
A wizard and a sorceror could add other things to theirs, perhaps sorcerers could use a sort of affinity type thing to bloodlines (or whatever) creating sort of... specialist staves and wizards could add complicated high magic imbuements that require a great deal of magical expertise to make them.