Armor Check Penalty and Initiative


Rules Questions


My GM is reading the core rule book verbiage "APC affects all strength and Dex based skill checks"

Initiative is a Dex check but he believes that APC applies to it. Is this called out by a Paizo person or errata anywhere?


Unless he's going to let you put skill points into initiative it isn't a skill.

Please note it doesn't affect strength and dexterity checks, only skill checks.


Stormy wrote:

My GM is reading the core rule book verbiage "APC affects all strength and Dex based skill checks"

Initiative is a Dex check but he believes that APC applies to it. Is this called out by a Paizo person or errata anywhere?

Initiative is not a skill check. It is more accurately an Ability Check. Armor Penalty Checks do not apply to Ability Checks, only to skill checks.


Got any errata or Paizo posts to back this? That's pretty much all he'll accept.

Grand Lodge

Why would he put the burden on you to disprove his interpretation? You should ask him to prove his. There usually is no errata for something that does not exist. Just saying.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Stormy wrote:
Got any errata or Paizo posts to back this? That's pretty much all he'll accept.

Errata is unnecessary, the rules clearly state skill checks. see the Pathfinder Core Rulebook skills chapter for a full list of skills in the game. Note that Initiative does not appear.

Scarab Sages

Going from a conceptual standpoint, I think initiative is more a representation of how quickly you react than how well you can do a cartwheel (Or swim, or sneak around, etc.). If we wanted to get really technical initiative would probably include perception, dex, reflex save, and a couple of other things. But that would be complicated.


Stormy wrote:
Got any errata or Paizo posts to back this? That's pretty much all he'll accept.

No errata necessary:

PRD:

Quote:
Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather, as well as any shield, hurts a character's ability to use Dexterity- and Strength-based skills. An armor check penalty applies to all Dexterity- and Strength-based skill checks. A character's encumbrance may also incur an armor check penalty.

PRD:

Quote:
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells, and other effects. Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

Initiative checks are not skill checks. They are ability checks.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Stormy wrote:
Got any errata or Paizo posts to back this? That's pretty much all he'll accept.

Open up the bestiary (or any sourcebook with armored NPC statblocks) and start picking out creatures with armor. Calculate their initiatives. You'll have dozen of examples with the ACP not applied to initiative.

For example then centaur. pg. 42 Bestiary. Init +6 = Dex+2 improved init+4. Despite wearing a breastplate with ACP of -4.

Liberty's Edge

Stormy wrote:
Got any errata or Paizo posts to back this? That's pretty much all he'll accept.

As stated by many here, the only errata that needs correcting is his interpretation.

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