I recently listened to Paizo's talks about the future of Pathfinder and the question of psionics has come up a few times. I am writing today to add my opinion to the subject. What makes pathfinder and 3.5 great is the fact that things feel unique. The melee characters feel different from a magic casters because they both use different systems of combat in the game. (Which is what 4th edition has done wrong by making everything the same). What I like most about the 3.5 psionic system is that it is built differently from magic and combat. This gives its own unique feel to it inside and outside the game. From what I gathered from the Gencon discussion of the issue Paizo wants to make it similar to the spell slot system. I think this move would ruin the psionic flavor.
When Paizo gets around to psionics they could do some great things with it but I would like the system either new or old (the existing 3.5 system) to still have a different feel then magic.
I hope Paizo reads this and keeps this in mind. I think everyone in the company so far has done a great job with their products and I am looking forward to what they will do with psionics in the future.
Thanks
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I recently listened to Paizo's talks about the future of Pathfinder and the question of psionics has come up a few times. I am writing today to add my opinion to the subject. What makes pathfinder and 3.5 great is the fact that things feel unique. The melee characters feel different from a magic casters because they both use different systems of combat in the game. (Which is what 4th edition has done wrong by making everything the same). What I like most about the 3.5 psionic system is that it is built differently from magic and combat. This gives its own unique feel to it inside and outside the game. From what I gathered from the Gencon discussion of the issue Paizo wants to make it similar to the spell slot system. I think this move would ruin the psionic flavor.
When Paizo gets around to psionics they could do some great things with it but I would like the system either new or old (the existing 3.5 system) to still have a different feel then magic.
I hope Paizo reads this and keeps this in mind. I think everyone in the company so far has done a great job with their products and I am looking forward to what they will do with psionics in the future.
Thanks
Just want to add my voice to this. I like the psionic point and augment system; it is different from magic and seems to be more balanced.
I hope Paizo will tweek it like they did all 3.5 to fix problems and add a few new features to bing it up the Pathfinder's level and standards.
I would love to see Psionics myself ... but I think I'd like to see them when another world than Golarion is used. Maybe another planet in the system?
As for the system itself ... I think there's some merit in using the 3.5 EPH as a base, but also tweaking it in the same way that Paizo has tweaked the rules in general :)
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Paizo has pretty firmly established that they will tackle psionics eventually, but it will not be soon.
Fans of psionics will want to check out what Dreamscarred Press is doing. They have been working hard at updating the 3.5 psionics system to Pathfinder. The final product is due out pretty soon and looks like it will be very cool.
More info HERE
James has also said paizo would not be using the 3.5 system but will use the same system every other caster uses. He has also said it will not be called psionics, but something else.
Anyhow it is a long way off, as Marc says DSP is who ya want to look at for the old system brought up to pathfinder, paizo will not be doing that one.
CEO
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Psionics is far enough off in the future, that we really have no idea about how we plan to do them. Different staff members have their ideas, so occasionally they will post about how they think that we should do it one way or another, but nothing is set in stone. Or even wet mud. Once we get psionics on the schedule, we will gather the forces inside Paizo and brainstorm and plot until we come up with something that we all dig. Nobody could predict what that will be at this stage, so don't believe anybody who says that James said this or Erik said that or Jason spouted off about this. Because the end result will probably be something that no single person could conceive right now. And then it will be open playtested and made even better. So no use in worrying about something in the future that hasn't even been contemplated as a group here at Paizo. You will know when we start to plan for psionics, and then we will ask for lots of input.
-Lisa
I do believe I stand corrected then. From now on I'll say if James has his way :)
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CEO
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I do believe I stand corrected then. From now on I'll say if James has his way :)
You know us, we all have strong opinions that many times come out when we post on these boards. And James is the Creative Director, so he has a lot of sway when it comes to these decisions. But they won't be made in a vacuum and the decision on what to do is far enough away that we haven't talked about it as a group. James has made his opinion clear on the boards and we very well may follow his thoughts, but then again we could end up going a different way. Which is why I say to not sweat things like this until we start letting you know officially through blog posts and playtests and such.
-Lisa
So very true, I don't really envy yall when you do tackle it to be honest.
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The Psionics question is a prickly one. As a 3.5 psionics fan, I have my sacred cows I do not want touched. First would be the power point system, second would be the augmentation system, and I also like the psionic focus mechanic as well.
I like psionics for a variety of reasons. I like the flavor. I like that the mechanics are different. In short I like having variety. I like having three kinds of magic, the divine, the Arcane and the Psionic. I like having divine casters like a Cleric, an Oracle, and a Priest (tome of secrets). I like having a warlock who uses spell like abilities, I like having a sorcerer who cast spontaneously, I like having the wizard who has to memorize spells from a book, and I like having a witch who gets her power from making a pact with an other worldy power and communes with a familiar for spells, Oh and the alchemist who “drinks” his spells. I also like having the psionic characters, the psion, the erudite, the wilder, the psychic warrior, the soul knife, the ardent, divine Mind the Lurk etc., in addition to those other spell casting classes. In short I like having the variety.
3.5 psionics has it's own set or rules mechanics. This firmly divides people. I like that the psionics has a different set of game mechanics. There are also many of people who don’t like psionics because it has a different set of game mechanics. There is no way around this.
From my perspective, if psionics doesn’t have a different set of mechanics there is no point in doing the system. I can simply take a sorcerer, and with some careful spell selection have a “psionically” flavored sorcerer. There is no need to do anything else.
From other people’s perspective, there is no need to use and learn a third kind of magic. What is the point, if you can simply re flavor a sorcerer and get something very similar.
Oh also there is the “no Sci FI” in my fantasy crowd, and they firmly think that psionics is a creature of science fiction.
I know I am simplifying things.
All of this being said I think a compromise of sorts has been reached. I believe Dream Scarred press, (I think it was mentioned earlier) is doing an update of the psionics system from 3.5 to pathfinder.
Paizo has firmly stated that they are not going to use the power point system, and will use something closer to a vancian spell slot system. I have also read on some threads, that they are not even going to call their “psionics” psionics. They will call it something else, to avoid some of the earlier pricklier issues.
This is fine with me. I will get my crunchy rules update from dream scarred press, and I am sure Paizo will do an excellent job writing some new “fluff”. They are very good at this. Heck they even made the gnome interesting to play.
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So very true, I don't really envy yall when you do tackle it to be honest.
Lisa thank you for taking the time to post on this thread. I am glad that nothing is even set in wet mud. I am glad to hear that what ever your collective imaginations at Paizo come up with, it will also be play tested by the community. We love being tossed things to chew over and gnaw on, and growl about like a dog with a bone.
again thanks for peeking in on this thread,
Elyas
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Paizo has firmly stated that they are not going to use the power point system, and will use something closer to a vancian spell slot system. I have also read on some threads, that they are not even going to call their “psionics” psionics. They will call it something else, to avoid some of the earlier pricklier issues.You may have missed Lisa's post above:
Psionics is far enough off in the future, that we really have no idea about how we plan to do them. Different staff members have their ideas, so occasionally they will post about how they think that we should do it one way or another, but nothing is set in stone. Or even wet mud. Once we get psionics on the schedule, we will gather the forces inside Paizo and brainstorm and plot until we come up with something that we all dig. Nobody could predict what that will be at this stage, so don't believe anybody who says that James said this or Erik said that or Jason spouted off about this. Because the end result will probably be something that no single person could conceive right now. And then it will be open playtested and made even better. So no use in worrying about something in the future that hasn't even been contemplated as a group here at Paizo. You will know when we start to plan for psionics, and then we will ask for lots of input.
-Lisa
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Creative Director
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The obvious route if and when we do psionics is to do as little as possible to change them, to maintain the power point system and go for as much backward compatibility as possible. That is, after all, what we did with the core rules.
That might end up being the case, but my personal opinion is that would be a disservice to psionics—they need a major overhaul and need to be more fully integrated into the game. By making them work differently, they self-marganialize and the stigma of them being an "add-on" remains.
That said, I do realize that psioncs has a very vocal group of gamers who quite like the rules as they stand in 3.5, and thus changes to those rules are VERY fraught with peril. If we do something that ostracizes current fans, we're in real danger of creating a book that no one wants, and that's obviously a terrible error.
As Lisa said above, we're a LONG way off from deciding what to do about psionics. My gut tells me that we'll take a stab at figuring out Epic Level rules before psionics, and we're a long way off from THAT as well. It'll be years, in other words.
But it's never too early to start managing expectations. If the knowledge that there's a chance that Paizo's psionic rules could end up being dramatically different than the current rules is out there early, that not only allows us (me) to gauge initial reactions but also starts getting folks thinking about the possibility that the current 3.5 rules AREN'T the best possible solution. And thus, if we DO do a book about psionics at some point and it IS different... no one can claim they never saw that coming.
That might end up being the case, but my personal opinion is that would be a disservice to psionics—they need a major overhaul and need to be more fully integrated into the game. By making them work differently, they self-marganialize and the stigma of them being an "add-on" remains.
I strongly respect that both you and Lisa have opened up and offered what information there is to be had at this time.
That being said, with this particular paragraph I have to respectfully say "too late". The power point system isn't what isolates and marginalizes psionics. The biggest two factors that makes it feel like and add-on are: 1} it's not in the core book, even referentially and 2} it's almost never referenced in adventure material.
This problem is also going to impact the APG content to a certain degree, of course.
Basically what I'm saying is that if the core rulebook had been another 200 pages and contained the psionic rules, and then adventure paths used them you'd suddenly see psionic being seen as "core".
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Creative Director
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That might end up being the case, but my personal opinion is that would be a disservice to psionics—they need a major overhaul and need to be more fully integrated into the game. By making them work differently, they self-marganialize and the stigma of them being an "add-on" remains.I strongly respect that both you and Lisa have opened up and offered what information there is to be had at this time.
That being said, with this particular paragraph I have to respectfully say "too late". The power point system isn't what isolates and marginalizes psionics. The biggest two factors that makes it feel like and add-on are: 1} it's not in the core book, even referentially and 2} it's almost never referenced in adventure material.
This problem is also going to impact the APG content to a certain degree, of course.
Basically what I'm saying is that if the core rulebook had been another 200 pages and contained the psionic rules, and then adventure paths used them you'd suddenly see psionic being seen as "core".
It's not too late.
One of the things that we realize we need to do once we do a rules expansion like psionics or epic or even something really new, like steampunk or time travel, is that we have to support those rules. We obviously can't support them before the rules are created, but once they ARE created, we can. We have areas of Goalrion that have sort of been "set aside" for psioncis and for epic rules, after all, so we've got entire campaign regions ready and waiting to be developed once we have the respective rules nailed down. That does include things like adventure paths with epic or psionic or whatever content.
And frankly, that's another reason we're not rushing to introduce all sorts of new rules to the game; it's a HUGE task and not one that will be limited to a single book, I suspect.
My gut tells me that we'll take a stab at figuring out Epic Level rules before psionics
Best news I've heard all day
I've recently been playing Saga Edition Star Wars, and would like to see psionics done more like the force powers int that. Leave the power point system to DSP, perhaps even allowing their material in PFS play if it is high enough quality (what I've seen I've liked, but I haven't checked it all out). Just throwing out ideas, since it is so early you never know where they can lead.
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One of the things that we realize we need to do once we do a rules expansion like psionics or epic or even something really new, like steampunk or time travel, is that we have to support those rules. We obviously can't support them before the rules are created, but once they ARE created, we can. We have areas of Goalrion that have sort of been "set aside" for psioncis and for epic rules, after all, so we've got entire campaign regions ready and waiting to be developed once we have the respective rules nailed down. That does include things like adventure paths with epic or psionic or whatever content.
Can I be the first to make wild guesses that the epic region is either Arcadia, The Worldwound or Land of the Linnorm Kings? My guess is that Arcadia will be it.
It's very simple for me.
Do what you want to psionics.
BUT
It better be backwards compatible. I better be able to integrate my Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Hyperconscious, and Dreamscarred Press books with the Pathfinder one. That's what really matters to me. (which obviously means it's best to keep the power point and augment systems)
If not, then it'll be one heck of a Paizo Fail first for me.
If Dreamscarred Press' release is popular enough, there may be no reason for Paizo to do one. It would just be undermining the whole OGL thing. That is a good part of the friction WotC developed. I can see when 3rd party stuff sucks, in one form or fashion, but if it has a strong following why fight it. Easier to co-op it.
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Creative Director
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It's very simple for me.
Do what you want to psionics.
BUT
It better be backwards compatible. I better be able to integrate my Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Hyperconscious, and Dreamscarred Press books with the Pathfinder one. That's what really matters to me. (which obviously means it's best to keep the power point and augment systems)
If not, then it'll be one heck of a Paizo Fail first for me.
Even if we DO change the way psionics work... the Expanded Psionics Handbook and all of that will STILL be compatible. Heck; they're compatible right now!
Which is why if we deviate far enough from those rules I'd advocate us calling them something other than "psionics."
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Creative Director
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I'm curious to see how this applies any differently to Paizo's words of power system.
Words of power are a very different beast than psionics or epic rules. It's something of an experiment for us, in fact. And if we pull it off the way we think we can, we won't need to do anything unusual to support it in our setting—any more so than we support wizards or oracles or fighters or alchemists.
It's very simple for me.
Do what you want to psionics.
BUT
It better be backwards compatible. I better be able to integrate my Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Hyperconscious, and Dreamscarred Press books with the Pathfinder one. That's what really matters to me. (which obviously means it's best to keep the power point and augment systems)
If not, then it'll be one heck of a Paizo Fail first for me.
Even if we DO change the way psionics work... the Expanded Psionics Handbook and all of that will STILL be compatible. Heck; they're compatible right now!
Which is why if we deviate far enough from those rules I'd advocate us calling them something other than "psionics."
I'd like to point out that Razz, you just got schooled.
"builds a schoolhouse, fills it with screaming children, throws it at Razz"
I hope you can catch.
----------End of Tangent
Psionics is very near and dear to my heart. I was a huge fan of it in 2nd Ed, even if your powers could fail (maybe that's why I like the Magus so much). Star Wars' force system struck me as spot on for psionics. You have psionic skills which retain the 2nd Ed flavor and psionic feats that really bridged the gap.
---As a small aside, 4th Ed psionics is actually kind of cool. Plus they just released Dark Sun (obvously my favoritest setting evah!) and they just redid Gamma World. If I didn't despise how bland the playing is I'd convert perpetually 1 second before now.---
When 3rd Ed made their sorcerers done right and called it psionics a piece of me died. By the time Expanded Psionics came out the wound had healed and I could better accept what they had done.
I like it. I defy/decry all who call it overpowered (top heavy maybe, certainly explosive, but then you have 15 minute adventuring days). I'm not a huge fan of what DSP is doing, mostly because I've always had to tweak their books for my games (underpowered/overpowered, nothing that ever just fit in right) and I'd rather see Paizo go at than anyone else.
Yes, I have a crush on Paizo. Deal with it.
I'm sure that all systems will be looked at and dissected. I'm sure other publishers will have their works scrutinized by mighty minds trying to find that one formula that makes it all fit. I'm sure something brand new will come of this, be tossed aside and maybe picked back up again.
I'm certain the playtest will be hellacious.
Regardless, Paizo has my support, even if they make something I don't like (impossible, I know).
Thanks Lisa and James for reading my concern. It really impressed me how fast you responded to it. I can't wait for ultimate magic and combat which will be awesome I'm sure and psionics whenever you get around to it should be just as great. Can't Wait and keep making products that I love.
Thanks
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This is one of the things that keeps my faith in companies like Paizo and Privateer Press when I've given up on Wizards of the Coast. When you have two of the company higher-ups responding to a board member's post (and multiple times in the same post too!) it definitely shows that they care about the people who read their books.
I just wanted to say that personally I liked the psionics system from 3.5 and I especially liked that it was simply different than magic. I'm glad that Paizo is sticking to their promise to keep things as compatible as possible, since that was one of the things that attracted me to Pathfinder in the first place. The idea that magic and psionics are different has always been the way I've approached the subject. Some people may consider psionics to be more appropriate to sci-fi but I disagree. Even if it was, the fact that Paizo is already bringing a little sci-fi into their fantasy makes me happy, as I have always enjoyed the mixture as well as the two genres seperately.
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If Dreamscarred Press' release is popular enough, there may be no reason for Paizo to do one. It would just be undermining the whole OGL thing. That is a good part of the friction WotC developed. I can see when 3rd party stuff sucks, in one form or fashion, but if it has a strong following why fight it. Easier to co-op it.
Actually, if Dreamscarred Press does a good version of 3.5 psionics, I see no reason why Paizo couldn't do a different approach and leave room for them to exist side be side along with magic.
That might end up being the case, but my personal opinion is that would be a disservice to psionics—they need a major overhaul and need to be more fully integrated into the game. By making them work differently, they self-marganialize and the stigma of them being an "add-on" remains.I strongly respect that both you and Lisa have opened up and offered what information there is to be had at this time.
That being said, with this particular paragraph I have to respectfully say "too late". The power point system isn't what isolates and marginalizes psionics. The biggest two factors that makes it feel like and add-on are: 1} it's not in the core book, even referentially and 2} it's almost never referenced in adventure material.
This problem is also going to impact the APG content to a certain degree, of course.
Basically what I'm saying is that if the core rulebook had been another 200 pages and contained the psionic rules, and then adventure paths used them you'd suddenly see psionic being seen as "core".
It's not too late.
One of the things that we realize we need to do once we do a rules expansion like psionics or epic or even something really new, like steampunk or time travel, is that we have to support those rules. We obviously can't support them before the rules are created, but once they ARE created, we can. We have areas of Goalrion that have sort of been "set aside" for psioncis and for epic rules, after all, so we've got entire campaign regions ready and waiting to be developed once we have the respective rules nailed down. That does include things like adventure paths with epic or psionic or whatever content.
And frankly, that's another reason we're not rushing to introduce all sorts of new rules to the game; it's a HUGE task and not one that will be limited to a single book, I suspect.
So if this is the case, my assumption is we will not only see a Psionics book. I see this as meaning we will have a psionics book, World Guide to Vudran, Player's Guide to Vudra, a Vudran based AP, etc. I will be curious to see how they do put this together sometime after 2013 or so.
About Words of Power, James. Is it going to be anything like the Miracle system for FUDGE? I would like to see a system for clerical spell casting that doesn't use Vancian forms. Sort of a free-form roll on a chart that takes into account what your god is the god of, how faithful the priest has been, how deserving is the recipient, etc.
Sorry if this is a hijack.
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About Words of Power, James. Is it going to be anything like the Miracle system for FUDGE? I would like to see a system for clerical spell casting that doesn't use Vancian forms. Sort of a free-form roll on a chart that takes into account what your god is the god of, how faithful the priest has been, how deserving is the recipient, etc.
Sorry if this is a hijack.
It's scheduled to be playtested soon(?), so we'll be able to see first hand.
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Creative Director
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About Words of Power, James. Is it going to be anything like the Miracle system for FUDGE? I would like to see a system for clerical spell casting that doesn't use Vancian forms. Sort of a free-form roll on a chart that takes into account what your god is the god of, how faithful the priest has been, how deserving is the recipient, etc.
Sorry if this is a hijack.
Words of power are not ready to be talked about in public yet. We're getting ever more close to the playtest, though. I don't really want lots of "James-said-this" fueled speculation clogging the internet before the playtest begins.
Words of power are not ready to be talked about in public yet. We're getting ever more close to the playtest, though. I don't really want lots of "James-said-this" fueled speculation clogging the internet before the playtest begins.About Words of Power, James. Is it going to be anything like the Miracle system for FUDGE? I would like to see a system for clerical spell casting that doesn't use Vancian forms. Sort of a free-form roll on a chart that takes into account what your god is the god of, how faithful the priest has been, how deserving is the recipient, etc.
Sorry if this is a hijack.
But we enjoy clogging the internet with "James-said-this" fueled speculation.:) Why do you always have to ruin our fun? ;)
About Words of Power, James. Is it going to be anything like the Miracle system for FUDGE? I would like to see a system for clerical spell casting that doesn't use Vancian forms. Sort of a free-form roll on a chart that takes into account what your god is the god of, how faithful the priest has been, how deserving is the recipient, etc.
Sorry if this is a hijack.
While that sounds like an interesting system that a 3rd party publisher may explore, I seriously doubt that will be what Words of Power are like, or any other official rules expansion.
I've been involved in the Dreamscarred Press' work, and it is coming along very nicely! I'm definitely in the 'nothing wrong (intrinsically) with the 3.5 psionics system' crowd, and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I guess Paizo have a wide number of options open to them - they could leave it to 3pps (Dreamscarred), they could do their own version of the 3.5 system, they could do something else completely. For me, Dreamscarred have filled my need for a Pathfinder psionics system, at least for now. But whatever Paizo decide to do ... I'd like to see it.
It's very simple for me.
Do what you want to psionics.
BUT
It better be backwards compatible. I better be able to integrate my Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Hyperconscious, and Dreamscarred Press books with the Pathfinder one. That's what really matters to me. (which obviously means it's best to keep the power point and augment systems)
If not, then it'll be one heck of a Paizo Fail first for me.
And, I'm here on the other side. My taste may have been canalized by early exposure to AD&D 1st Edition, but I really hope that there will never be a Pathfinder base class for psionics, nor anything actually resembling an independent psionic "system" on the order of what was done in 2nd/3rd/3.5.
My approach would be esper feats available to all classes (granting Su or Sp abilities), an esper "bloodline" for sorcerers, an esper archetype for monks, some esper rogue talents, some esper-related domains for clerics of the appropriate god, and some esper-themed prestige classes.
I've been involved in the Dreamscarred Press' work, and it is coming along very nicely! I'm definitely in the 'nothing wrong (intrinsically) with the 3.5 psionics system' crowd, and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I guess Paizo have a wide number of options open to them - they could leave it to 3pps (Dreamscarred), they could do their own version of the 3.5 system, they could do something else completely. For me, Dreamscarred have filled my need for a Pathfinder psionics system, at least for now. But whatever Paizo decide to do ... I'd like to see it.
More and more I am liking the idea of Paizo making their own system but using different names for all the classes. Letting a game easily run with both Paizo's system and Dreamscarred side-by-side. From everything I've seen Dreamscarred is doing an excellent job of updating the Expanded Psionics content into Pathfinder, so what's wrong with two good systems that can run together or separately. Then everybody wins.
More and more I am liking the idea of Paizo making their own system but using different names for all the classes. Letting a game easily run with both Paizo's system and Dreamscarred side-by-side. From everything I've seen Dreamscarred is doing an excellent job of updating the Expanded Psionics content into Pathfinder, so what's wrong with two good systems that can run together or separately. Then everybody wins.
See... I'd sort of agree only not. I'd be perfectly happy to see Paizo do something else. For instance I've always wanted Incarnum to work but as written it's basically woefully underpowered and doesn't let characters DO anything. Sure, the class abilities replace your magic items... which is GREAT, but there's none of the abilities classes usually have.
Point is, I'd love to see alternate magic systems. New mechanics, new methods, new crunch, new fluff. But I don't want to see psionics renamed and mechanically changed. Just let it be. If it's not going to have power points et al (ie. be mostly 3.5e compatible), just skip it and do something else. (Words of Power sound very interesting to me, for instance.)
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Thank you Lisa and James for your input. I love the ideas and flavor that Paizo comes up with, even if the balance is often off. I appreciate that 3.5 psionics isn't out completely, and I hope Paizo will continue using it as the official PF psionics.
To fully support psionics, it really needs to be in the Core book. It's obviously too late now, but hopefully psionics and future systems Paizo introduce will receive support in many supplements, adventures, and products. It's difficult to do, but it would greatly go toward in helping yourselves as well.
Thanks for the posts Lisa & James. I have to admit that when I first read James' post about dropping the PP system and just using Vancian I was *angry*. So, apparently, were a lot of other folks. However, I sat back and thought about it and realized that those who didn't like the 3.5 Psi were just as upset about that system as I was about dropping it.
Psionics seems, as much as various edition wars, to generate a love-hate reaction, no neutrality anywhere.
I'm happy that you are willing to consider keeping it, and will be looking forward to actively participating in that playtest.
Basically, I love options...new systems, new classes, new *ideas*. Incarnum, Psi, Warlocks, Ninjas [smirk], Truenamers [don't have that book, though]. I know many folks object to new base classes and new systems, but I don't see the problem. After all, ONLY the core classes are required. Anything else is options. IMO, the more options the merrier, but obviously I don't speak for all.
Give us both PP & Vancian psis...I'll find a place for them in my gameworld.
*IF* psionics is done so that it is actually worthwhile to have it - ie. it doesn't mimic a lot of spells, but actually and thoroughly has it's own flavor, then I can accept it.
That means getting rid of the overwhelming majority of powers in the 3.5 psionics book.
As for point based systems, the game already has them - look at the monk.
Name a single power it could have that a wizard can't already do.
Telekinesis? Mind control? Astral travelling? Altering their form? Nope, wizards have all those already.
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My approach would be esper feats available to all classes (granting Su or Sp abilities), an esper "bloodline" for sorcerers, an esper archetype for monks, some esper rogue talents, some esper-related domains for clerics of the appropriate god, and some esper-themed prestige classes.
I like this idea. I hope any 3pp out there decides to jump on this idea. It's definitely one I'd love to see.
As far as 3.5 Psionics go, I don't see an issue with how they are currently (judging from games I've ran). But, I'd love to see how Paizo handles it.
*IF* psionics is done so that it is actually worthwhile to have it - ie. it doesn't mimic a lot of spells, but actually and thoroughly has it's own flavor, then I can accept it.
That means getting rid of the overwhelming majority of powers in the 3.5 psionics book.
As for point based systems, the game already has them - look at the monk.Name a single power it could have that a wizard can't already do.
Telekinesis? Mind control? Astral travelling? Altering their form? Nope, wizards have all those already.
You could say the same of divine magic to arcane magic. Psionics is different in the way spells(powers) are used.
*IF* psionics is done so that it is actually worthwhile to have it - ie. it doesn't mimic a lot of spells, but actually and thoroughly has it's own flavor, then I can accept it.
That means getting rid of the overwhelming majority of powers in the 3.5 psionics book.
As for point based systems, the game already has them - look at the monk.
The problem, LT, is that magic (divine or arcane) can do everything, so you wouldn't get rid of most of the powers, you'd get rid of ALL the powers.
The way it will have to work is to do a few of the things that magic cannot, do a few things better, a few things worse, and a few not at all. In fact, that's exactly what 3.5 psionics did, and there was nothing wrong with it (that wasn't also wrong with magic, anyway). The results of this are the following complaints:
"Psionics is meaningless, just use a sorcerer." - if powers are to similar to spells.
"Psionics is broken, it does X that magic can't do!" - if they aren't.
You will ALWAYS get these two complaints to a greater or lesser degree.
Another interesting factoid: DSP offered their services to Paizo to actually help produce the "official" PF revision of Psionics, and never got a response. I think it'd have been really cool, but I'm good with just going with the DSP book. It looks like it'll be just my style, and it also has my art in it (so nice to finally be published...).