I have a friend who has created a first level Priest of Aroden and has a great idea about how to roleplay the loss of his god etc. He wants to brainstorm with me about his characters future and would love to make one of his characters long term goals be focused around discovering what happened to Aroden and as such would love to take the Celestial Disciple PrC part of the hole growth process. Problem is it's 3.5 and taking a look at how Dragon Disciple was converted I was hoping one of the masters of conversion might have already done this or can help me out.
Any idea how to bring the Celestial Disciple into the Pathfinder Age?
Sorry if this is a bit hastily written. I am just psyched at how enthusiastic my player is! Any help is much appreciated!
Change saves to be pathfinder saves (no +2 bonus on the first level) change the spell/day progression to be the same as the dragon disciple. HD does not need to be changed. Requirements should have the skill requirement lowered by 3.
That's about it.
This class is an example of the power creep of 3.5, if the player who chooses it feels underpowered they should work with you to power it up a little. Or just give them a good item (or heavy armor proficiency) or something to that extent.
Besides what jonnythm mentioned, I would change:
Required Ranks in Know(Religion) changes from 9 to 6: Paizo dropped Dragon Disciples rank requirement by that much (the amount corresponds to the Class Skill bonus PRPG now uses).
THe Turn Undead ability corresponds to Channel Energy (Positive).
It would also stack with Oracles who can Channel Positive Energy.
I would also have the PrC stack for determining Domain Powers that you gain as well as Oracle Powers.
You wouldn´t gain new powers (unless via Feat), but existing powers would scale up in effect.
I would give them d10 HD like Outsiders. Gaining Darkvision seems appropriate half-way thru the PrC.
I might consider giving them an Archon-like Aura of Menace as well.
-----------------
For your concept, an Oracle seems like a good base.
MAYBE Aroden somehow sponsored you in some way, but who knows...
It should be based on a sorcerer/spontaneous caster class, but this should be open to divine casters too... what about opening it to ALL Charisma-based casters? That would be: paladins, oracles, bards, summoners and sorcerers... A sorcerer should have the Celestial bloodline... also, remove the restriction against half-celestials.
Alternatively, make a requisite to have channel energy... which would limit the class to clerics, paladins, Life oracles and Empyreal sorcerers. To include normal Celestial sorcerer, you could say "channel energy or heavenly fire", but I don't know... no other PrC lists two alternative requisites.
A better idea for prerequisites:
Alignment: Any good
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 9 ranks
languages: Celestial
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast Bless; must be able to cast spells of 4th level (this restricts the PrC to clerics, oracles, paladins, inquisitors, ancestors-patron witches and celestial-blooded sorcerers)
Special: Cannot be a Celestial creature
|
A better idea for prerequisites:
Alignment: Any good
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 9 ranks
languages: Celestial
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast Bless; must be able to cast spells of 4th level (this restricts the PrC to clerics, oracles, paladins, inquisitors, ancestors-patron witches and celestial-blooded sorcerers)
Special: Cannot be a Celestial creature
A 3.5 requirement of 9 ranks in a skill equates to a Pathfinder requirement of 6 ranks in a skill.
The spellcasting limitation is not really a restriction. I think you mean the PC must be able to cast Bless and 4th level spells from the same spell list as Bless.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I meant.^^
Taking in everyone's suggestions, here it is... hope it's good for you!
Celestial Disciple
Alignment: Any good
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 6 ranks
languages: Celestial
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast Bless; must be able to cast spells of 4th level from the same spell list granting Bless (this restricts the PrC to clerics, oracles, paladins, inquisitors, ancestors-patron witches and celestial-blooded sorcerers)
Special: Cannot be a Celestial creature or a creature with the Half-Celestial template
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)
Climb, Diplomacy, Fly, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
BAB: 7/10
ST: GPG
Spells: 7/10
Abilities:
1) Celestial Blood; Channel Positive Energy; Natural Armor Increase +1
2) Ability Boost (Str +2); Divine Favor;
3) Holy Fire; Natural Armor Increase +2
4) Ability Boost (Con +2)
5) Darkvision 30 feet; Natural Armor Increase +3
6) Ability Boost (Wis +2);
7) Improved Holy Fire; Natural Armor Increase +4
8) Ability Boost (Cha +2)
9) Natural Armor Increase +5; Wings
10) Celestial Being; Darkvision 60 ft.
Celestial Blood: a Celestial Disciple’s class levels stack with levels in his other class when determining the effect of cleric and inquisitor domain powers, paladin oath and lay on hand power, oracle revelations, witch hexes and sorcerer bloodline powers. She doesn’t gain new powers of his type with this ability when she gains levels in celestial disciple.
Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st, level and every even level thereafter, a Celestial Disciple's skin toughens, giving her a cumulative natural armor bonus of +1.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): The Celestial Disciple’s class levels stack with levels in any other class that grant the channel positive energy ability. If the Celestial Disciple has not levels in a class granting this ability, she can channel positive energy as a cleric of her Celestial Disciple level.
Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, a Celestial Disciple gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if she is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Celestial Disciple, she must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Divine Favor (Sp): At 2ndst level a Celestial Disciple gains the use of Divine Favor as a spell-like ability. She is granted the use of this ability a number of times equal to 2 + her Cha bonus.
Ability Boost (Ex): As her body takes on the attributes of an outsider, a Celestial Disciple gains stat boosts that strengthen her beyond that of an average mortal. At 2nd level, a Disciple gains +2 to Str; at 4th, +2 to Con; at 6th, +2 to Wis; and at 8th, +2 to Cha.
Holy Fire (Su): At 3rd level, the Celestial Disciple gains the ability to change divine spell energy into Holy Fire, manifesting it as a bolt of raw magical energy. To do so, she must sacrifice one of her prepared spells for the day. The result is a ranged touch attack with long range (400 feet + 40 feet/level of Celestial Disciple) that deals 1d6 points of damage per 2 class levels of the Celestial Disciple plus 1d6 points of damage per level of the spell used to create the effect. If Holy Fire is cast against a creature that is Undead or any Evil Outsider, it deals double the amount of damage.
Wings (Su): As her body nears transformation into a half celestial, a Disciple grows a pair of angelic wings, granting her a fly speed of 60 feet, with good maneuverability. If she already has wings from another class power (like the wings of heaven sorcerer bloodline power) or gains them thereafter, her flying speed increases to 90 feet.
Improved Holy Fire (Su): At 7th level at Celestial Disciple improves the damage dealt by Holy Fire from 1d6 to 1d8.
Celestial Being (Su): Upon reaching 10th level, a Celestial Disciple completes her transformation into a half celestial, infusing herself with the power of her deity. She gains the half celestial template.
Maybe we could say that
If the celestial disciple has no levels in a class which grants positive energy channeling, she instead can channel positive energy as a cleric with twice her class level. A 5h-level celestial disciple would thus channel positive energy as a 10th-level cleric.
Or maybe not.
I was looking over what Bardess listed as a possible build for a Celestial Disciple, and I really can't agree with it. It feels really overpowered compared to Dragon Disciple, which I thought this class was supposed to be just a Celestial version of. Let me show you what I'm looking at:
Not counting any other class features/spells/whatever given from any other class, and assuming both reach 10th level by the player's 16th character level (which appears to be the earliest they can hit 10th level, since both seem to have a minimum level of 6 before they can start earning levels in the PrCs)...
A Dragon Disciple gets:
- Bloodline Powers of a 10th level Sorcerer
- Permanent wings (60 ft. speed, average maneuverability)
- Form of the Dragon II (SP) twice a day
- Blindsense (60 ft. range)
- STR +4
- CON +2
- INT +2
- Natural Armor +5 (+3 from the class, +2 from Sorcerer bloodline)
- 3 Draconic Bloodline feats
- Draconic Breath Weapon (10d6)
- Fang and Claws natural attacks (Fangs from class, claws from Sorcerer Bloodline)
- 10 Energy Resistance of the chosen Dragon's element
On the other hand, a Celestial Disciple gets:
- Channel Positive Energy as a 10th level Cleric
- Natural Armor +6 (+5 from class, +1 from Half-Celestial template)
- Improved Holy Fire (5d8 + Xd8 where X = spell slot expended to use ability)
- STR +2
- CON +2
- WIS +2
- CHA +2
- +4 to any three ability scores of the player's choosing
- +2 to the other three scores
- Permanent wings (60 ft. speed, average maneuverability)
- Darkvision (60 ft. range)
- Disease Immunity
- +4 on saves vs poisons
- Acid, Cold, and Electricity Resistance 10
- DR 10/Magic
- Spell Resistance 30
- Smite Evil as a 16th level Paladin
- Spell-Like Abilities (1/day unless noted otherwise): Protection from Evil (3/day), Bless, Aid, Detect Evil, Cure Serious Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Holy Smite, Remove Disease, Dispel Evil, Holy Ward, Holy Aura (3/day), Hallow, Mass Charm Monster
That's a damned lot for a single prestige class to give.
It always bothered me that the Half-Celestial template is arguably better than the Celestial template.
If you were to change the 10th level capstone ability to grant only some of the powers of the Half-Celestial template (namely, remove the Spell-like abilities, +1 natural armor, & the ability score increase), you might balance it out a bit.
I left it so because it was so in the original. It could certainly be tuned down as you say.
So it would be:
Channel Positive Energy as a 10th level Cleric
- Natural Armor +5
- Improved Holy Fire (5d8 + Xd8 where X = spell slot expended to use ability)
- STR +2
- CON +2
- WIS +2
- CHA +2
- Permanent wings (60 ft. speed, average maneuverability)
- Darkvision (60 ft. range)
- Acid, Cold, and Electricity Resistance 15
- DR 10/evil
- Spell Resistance 24 (at 20th level)
- Smite Evil
This should be OK compared to the dragon disciple, or not?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thread resurrection! I tuned down a bit more the class, having seen that Holy Fire could be done easily with Heavenly Fire- and being interested in creating more "disciple" classes (expect a Death Disciple soon)
Alignment: Any good
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 6 ranks
Languages: Celestial
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast Bless; must be able to cast 4th-level spells from the same list granting Bless (this restricts the PrC to clerics, oracles, paladins, inquisitors, ancestors-patron witches and celestial-blooded sorcerers)
Special: Cannot be a Celestial creature or a creature with the Half-Celestial template
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)
Climb, Diplomacy, Fly, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
BAB: 7/10
ST: GPG
Spells: 7/10
Abilities:
1) Aura of Good; Celestial Blood; Channel Positive Energy; Natural Armor Increase +1
2) Ability Boost (Str +2); Bloodline Feat; Divine Favor
3) Natural Armor Increase +2
4) Ability Boost (Con +2)
5) Bloodline Feat; Darkvision 30 feet; Natural Armor Increase +3
6) Ability Boost (Wis +2);
7) Natural Armor Increase +4
8) Ability Boost (Cha +2); Bloodline Feat
9) Natural Armor Increase +5; Wings
10) Celestial Being; Darkvision 60 ft.
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a celestial disciple’s aura of good is equal to her cleric and/or paladin level (if any) plus her celestial disciple level.
Celestial Blood: A celestial disciple adds his level to her sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from her bloodline. If the celestial disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, she instead gains bloodline powers of the celestial bloodline, using his celestial disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.
Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st, level and every odd level thereafter, a celestial disciple's skin toughens, giving her a cumulative natural armor bonus of +1.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): The celestial disciple’s class levels stack with levels in any other class that grant the channel positive energy ability. If the celestial disciple has not levels in a class granting this ability, she instead can channel positive energy as a cleric of her class level.
Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, a celestial disciple gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if she is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a celestial disciple, she must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Bloodline Feat: Upon reaching 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter, a celestial disciple receives one bonus feat, chosen from the celestial bloodline's bonus feat list.
Divine Favor (Sp): At 2ndst level a celestial disciple gains the use of Divine Favor as a spell-like ability. She is granted the use of this ability a number of times equal to 2 + her Cha bonus.
Ability Boost: As her body takes on the attributes of an outsider, a celestial disciple gains stat boosts that strengthen her beyond that of an average mortal. At 2nd level, a disciple gains +2 to Str; at 4th, +2 to Con; at 6th, +2 to Wis; and at 8th, +2 to Cha.
Wings (Su): As her body nears transformation into a half celestial, a disciple grows a pair of angelic wings, granting her a fly speed of 60 feet, with good maneuverability. If she already has wings from another class power (like the wings of heaven sorcerer bloodline power) or gains them thereafter, her flying speed increases to 90 feet.
Celestial Being (Su): Upon reaching 10th level, a celestial disciple completes her transformation into a half celestial, infusing herself with the power of her deity. She gains the celestial template and her type changes to outsider (native, good).
Lastly, I'd adequate the requirements to the Dragon Disciple standard, removing the BAB and spellcasting level requirements.
Alignment: Any good
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 6 ranks
Languages: Celestial
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast Bless
Special: Cannot be a Celestial or Half-Celestial creature
That should be it.
A very last correction:
Celestial Being (Su): At 10th level, a celestial disciple can assume the form of a celestial being once per day. This ability works like Divine vessel (celestial aspect only). Her caster level for this effect is equal to her effective sorcerer levels.