Grenadier Dedication Expert Proficiency in Grenades

[Red Griffyn]

Grenadier archetype dedication gives trained/expert proficiency with grenades at L2/L5. Grenades use Class DC, not weapon proficiency. I believe the intent was to boost your equivalent class DC with grenades to expert at L5 so any class could throw grenades at L5 to L14 at pairity with each other. If this is the case we need some clarity.

Otherwise this wording is close to vestigual as the only classes that don't get expert in weapons (i.e., casters) would benefit if they also got the primary target class feat from a soldier archetype (at L10) AND took the L6 feat to treat grenades as a thrown weapon for primary target. In that case, only the witchwarper even has scaling class DC to keep the area fire portion scaling with save dc expectations. This would give 3 levels of scaling before martials get master in weapons at L13. This seems far too niche to be intended.

IMO, RAW seems clear (it doesn't really do anything). RAI it would make L2 to L14 really interesting if it was tied to the grenades DC. The classes with renewable grenade options (i.e., mechanic and mystic elemental weapon focus spell) would feel great and could pivot to other things at higher levels once master class and spell DC was in play.

This one of the few items with a scaling DC over fixed item DCs. Give them all the love please.

[Master Han Del of the Web]

Weapon Specialization? I think them having a proficiency attached means they get the extra damage from weapon specialization.

[Ryuujin-sama]

Oh. Would Weapon Specialization effect Grenades? What about a Mechanic's mines?

[Xenocrat]

Grenades yes, mines (and turrets) no. Grenades are defined as simple thrown weapons, weapon spec applies to the use of weapons you have the required proficiency in. It doesn’t say it depends on how the weapon is used or resolves damage (strike vs area fire).

Edit: Actually I think turret is probably yes. It’s a martial weapon that you fire.

Drones get flat damage to their melee as they advance, but not to ranged, and they don’t get tracking bonuses, so that’s a combat disadvantage to offset their action bonuses, better mobility, and utility.

[Red Griffyn]

Realistically though, all martials get expert in simple weapons (i.e., grenades, which are simple thrown weapons) at L5, so this won't help them. Casters don't get weapon specialization until L13, two levels after they get Expert in simple weapons (i.e., simple thrown weapons like grenades) at L11. So it can't be for weapon specialization purposes.

The only use case I can see where it helps is a hyper niche trap. A caster who has a scaling class DC (Since other ones likely pass on grenades after L7 -> i.e., witch warper) could take grenadier, MC into soldier, take the L4 feat to work with primary target, and the L10 soldier MC feat to get primary target. That would give them exactly one level before their proficiency scales to expert at L11 (caster chassis) to have a +2 to hit on area fire/primary target gameplay.

But a single caster class (i.e., witch warper), proficiency parity for one mid game level (i.e., L10), after spending 3 feats (which are almost useless until L10) feels like a definitive trap. I don't think this passes the sniff test for RAI.