"Spore/Fungus Druid" would have been a REALLY interesting one in Spore War.
There's a joke in my group that I always play halfling, druid, or halfling druid, but if we play spore war, it would be difficult not to play a spore druid. Potentially of the halfling variety too, altho a fungus leshy or an elf is also tempting.
I'm hoping Blossom is more than yet another Leaf reskin, and considering it has a whole page dedicated to it I'm hoping for some new feats at least. Otherwise we're gonna have 10 orders, 4 of which are just Leaf variants and that's just lazy.
And I think Spore Druid got done dirty, honestly. It could've been much better tied to decay and rebirth with some interesting feats, but it's just Leaf with the serial numbers filed off.
Eh... True, I suppose. But it could have been an order based on the plane, an esoteric order from antiquity few knew about and so on. The same book mentions Talos and Ardande existed on golarian in small enclaves despite the loss of their planes.Yeah the decision to not have a metal order in RoE really annoyed me. Paizo broke from metal = unnatural and even introduced an elemental plane of metal and then ... druids didn't get a order for it. Very frustrating.The reappearance of the Metal plane is VERY recent. Having something as structured as a Druidic order based on it suddenly appearing out of the blue feels somewhat off.
It was my understanding that the planes of metal and wood existed within the other four planes for a while until some cosmic event made them their own planes. Like there are ancient beings on the elemental plane of metal that predate the plane on which they live by eons, they just used to be in a very metal oriented part of the plane of earth (since the earth is where you dig to get metal.)
A thing about planes is that they can be kind of inacessible if someone sufficiently powerful can control the plane and wants to make it inaccessible. So it's entirely plausible that the evil elemental lords just put the other two elemental planes where they were extremely difficult to access, but the things native to the planes hardly noticed.
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A thing about planes is that they can be kind of inacessible if someone sufficiently powerful can control the plane and wants to make it inaccessible. So it's entirely plausible that the evil elemental lords just put the other two elemental planes where they were extremely difficult to access, but the things native to the planes hardly noticed.
I believe it is the rulers of the 2 planes that decided to withdraw their homes from reality when the evil elemental Lords started their assault on the good ones.
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+1-ing wanting more Druid stuff than yet more plant-based orders.
Including better fungus-based ones. I mean, I just learned Hollow Knight's story might have been the result of a proxy war between two parasitic fungi: https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/8jyn56/lore_spoilers_royalty _radiance_and_wyrms/ We need mind-control druids!
A 5e option I really miss in pf2e is their Spores Druid. It could be a really good necromancer class archtype actually!
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We've talked quite a bit about what "flavor" of druid is left underserved here, and how the plant druid have an abondance of option compared to others, but I think we should talk a bit more about the gameplay gameplay side of thing.
Druid have multiple "class fantasy" it can fill, and I feel like a few of them are lacking at the moment.
The plant order (and it's suborders) fill the "crowd control & terrain mastery" role, with stuff like garland spell and impalling briar, as well as both suborders having focus spells about area denial, and also a bit of "healer" role with the cornucopia focus spell (altho this one is much less pronounced, since cornucopia is the only healing thing you get from feats and druid features). It is well furnished on top of all the area effect spell the primal spell list have, but I won't complain if we get more of it since it is my favorite role to play.
The wild order fill the "frontline caster" niche, alongside the cleric, even if I think wildshape have quite a few issues and a lot of people would like it to be expanded into something more significant. Polymorph as a "druid archetype" do have a lot of feat, even outside the wild order, so I feel like "volume wise" the archetype is well served, even if the execution isn't the best.
I am however a bit sad these are basically the only thing that can boost the druid martial prowess (or frontline survivability). The druid shouldn't be able to become as reliable a frontliner as an actual martial, but a couple of feats that could increase his frontline ability like the cleric have, without relying on polymorph effect always, would be good to have. Maybe a couple other feats thrown toward the verdant weapon stuff, or maybe some feats that improve your shield, or even that would buff your use of "flavorfull yet weak" druidic weapons like sickle, sling, quarterstaff or blowgun could be good to have. Metal order could be an alternate "frontline druid" order, likewise for a "decay/rot/death" order if it's a melee debuffer like it was in PF1.
There's the "elemental caster/blaster" fantasy that the elemental orders try to fill, but appart from storm, they are a bit lacking, due to only really being present in a single pre-remaster book. It definitively should receive more stuff, not just the addition of the "metal order", but more stuff for the existing ones, perhaps feats buffing the use of certain damage type from members of certain orders, or feats rewarding crossing between elemental orders.
And then there's the animal order, which fit the "minion master" class fantasy. Which it does well with your animal companion, as well as the ranger and beastmaster, but it does miss a pretty important part of the fantasy, being the ability to fight alongside multiple animals. Of course they can't (and shouldn't) give the druid the ability to summon hordes of animals like they did in PF1, but I do think there should give you more reason to use summons, especially given how weak summoning is in PF2 in general. Something allowing you to command your companion and sustain a summon animal spell in a single action could do a lot for making the fantasy more tantalising. Or commanding a leshy familiar and sustaining a summon plant spell. Actually, I'm a bit surprised there isn't already a feat that allow you to command both familiar and companion at once if you took order explorer to have both animal and plant order, it seems fun, flavorfull, all without seeming broken, especially since it require prior investment.
"Land orders" are a bit more difficult to tie to a possible gameplay niche, as they used to be more about noncombat utility in their specific biomes than in combat special effect. The one niche that comes to mind is to tie them to the "terrain mastery" side of things, with creating AEO zones to shape the battlefield, but this is already quite filled up by the plant order(s), even if it's not the same flavor. Beyond that, all I can think of is like, case by case effect depending on the orders, which would be really cool but demand a lot more legwork for each individual order, and probably not much possibility to grow (but then again, most orders don't receive a lot of new stuff anyway...).
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The druid shouldn't be able to become as reliable a frontliner as an actual martial...One of the reasons behind wishing for a Shifter.
I really want a shifter. But one of the big issues is that right now under the right circumstances (enough room to take on larger forms) both the druid and animist make quite good martials from about level 7 through about L12 - L14. Not as good as a pure martial but probably about 80% or so as effective as a martial (depending a bit on which exact level within that range and which martial :-)).
Which means that there is VERY little room to improve their martial abilities without going the full on Shifter route.
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Not as good as a pure martial but probably about 80% or so as effective as a martial (depending a bit on which exact level within that range and which martial :-)).
Which means that there is VERY little room to improve their martial abilities without going the full on Shifter route.
One good thing to note is that since almost all of the martial abilities of the druid so far are tied to wild shape or general polymorph effect, Paizo could give them a handfull of feats that improve their weapon use without pushing them over the edge, since polymorph effect are incompatible with weapon attack.
It wouldn't make druid better as "semi martial" but open up new ways for them to fufill that fantasy without always relying in transformation. but yeah, an actual shifting martial is sorta needed at this point, there seems to be quite a lot of people that want to play this kind of character without being saddled by spellcasting (and having their martial abilities nerfed as a result).
I also have to add to the voices requestion things like decay/blight druid, or more in depth fungal stuff, or even primal necromancy. The spooky druid of death and decay is my favorite aestetic hand down, and it is underserved currently, despite spore order being nice to have.
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And extend it to other low cost weapons such as sling, darts and shuriken, maybe even whip. To stand for enchanting the gifts of the natural world, such as branches, rocks, vines with its might.
This is a thing that would be great yeah, I feel like the verdant weapon stuff that's already here is a good basis for that, but it's far from being enough. I guess runic weapon/body basically fill the role shillelagh or magic stone were supposed to have, but it's not the same thing since these are spells available for all spellcasters, and since these spells are better used to improve your martial companion, not your own weapons.
Not as good as a pure martial but probably about 80% or so as effective as a martial (depending a bit on which exact level within that range and which martial :-)).
Which means that there is VERY little room to improve their martial abilities without going the full on Shifter route.
One good thing to note is that since almost all of the martial abilities of the druid so far are tied to wild shape or general polymorph effect, Paizo could give them a handfull of feats that improve their weapon use without pushing them over the edge, since polymorph effect are incompatible with weapon attack.
It wouldn't make druid better as "semi martial" but open up new ways for them to fufill that fantasy without always relying in transformation. ...
The Metal Order seems like a good opportunity for a martial non-transforming druid, because metal is associated with weapons and armor. I read three books in the Iron Druid Chronicles by Kevin Hearne, so I favor calling this the Iron Order. I glanced that the impulses of a metal kineticist for inspiration, but they seemed more spell-like than martial, so I will go for martial action economy instead.
Iron Order
Metal, though processed in smelter and forge, is natural. Metal has cycles of development--from ore to metal to rust--like the cycle in a creature's lifespan. You harmonize the malleability of metal into an extension of your own body.
Order Skill Crafting
Druid Feat Comfort in Steel
Order Spell Knife's Edge
Anathema Breaking the natural cycles of nature without restoring a new cycle. A forest can be cut for lumber, but it must be replanted. Ore can be mined but not strip-mined destroying the land above it. Permanent structures can be built on a grassy plain, but only for bustling life of a village and must include gardens in reverence to the land's fertility.
Comfort in Steel Feat 1
Druid
Prerequisite Iron Order
Metal armor conforms to your needs. Your chain or plate armor becomes +1 comfort armor in addition to its other properties while you wear it.
Design Note: PF2 offers light chain and plate armor, Chain Shirt and Kilted Breastplate, with a +3 Dex Cap. Thus, an Iron Druid has AC incentive to go about Dex +3. Str +1 is helpful, but not necessary, since Chain Shirt and Kilted Breastplate are flexible.
Knife's Edge [one-action] Focus 1
Uncommon Druid Focus Manipulate Metal
Duration 1 minute
Your magic guides your knife. When you Strike with a simple knife weapon, you may make a spell attack roll instead of the usual melee or ranged attack roll. The Strike is still a melee or ranged attack, and it does not become a spell.
Design Note: And this makes Iron Druid a semi-martial. They have good armor and can temporarily have their best attribute as their attack stat. Simple knives are not the best weapons, but an optimized attack stat helps a lot and they work with the Conductive Weapon spell. I had considered adding other metal weapons to the list, such as spiked gauntlets, but a limited approach is clearer. And the classic druidic weapon from early Dungeons & Dragons, the sickle, is a simple knife.
Spiffy Armor Feat 2
Druid
Prerequisites Iron Order
You can draw magic into your armor. During your daily preparations you can scribe one armor property rune of level up to your own level onto your armor or explorer's clothing. It lasts until your next daily preparations and does not count against the limit on other armor property runes. Before 5th level, you may scribe the Rainment rune.
Design Notes: before the Remastering, druids did not wear metal armor. Some players might want to keep the non-metal look on Iron Druids.
Attack Spheres Feat 4
Druid
Prerequisites Iron Order
You summon floating metal spheres to aid your attacks. You gain the attack spheres order spell.
Attack Spheres Focus 2
Uncommon Concentrate Druid Focus Manipulate
Based on Draconic Barrage, Divine Mysteries pg. 264
Duration 1 minute
You summon metal to form a group of small floating spheres that flit around you. For the duration of the spell, your Strikes with weapons or unarmed attacks deal 1 additional bludgeoning damage as the spheres join in your attacks. In addition, once per turn you can Sustain the spell to have the spheres Shove a creature within 60 feet in any direction, using your spell attack proficiency instead of Athletics. The Shove shared and advanced your Multiple Attack Penalty.
Heightened (+1) The additional amount of damage from the spheres increases by 1. The spheres can be silver or cold iron and their damage triggers weaknesses to those metals. At 5th rank the spheres can be adamantine.
Design Notes: This is a cross between Draconic Barrage and the T-Spheres used by Mr. Terrific in DC Comics.
Metal Armor Expertise Feat 6
Druid
Based on Armor Specialist, Player Core 2 pg. 215
Prerequisite Comfort in Steel
Understanding the metal in your armors showed you how to make the most of its protection. You have expert proficiency in unarmored defense and in chain, composite, and plate light and medium armors. You gain the armor specialization effects for those armors. At 13th level you have master proficiency in those armors.
The Advanced Elemental Spell ought to gain an metal option for Iron Order. I recommend converting legacy Magnetic Acceleration into a focus spell. It should also gain a wood option for Leaf/Cultivation/Spore Order, but that is for another post.
This Is a Knife Feat 6
Druid
Prerequisites Iron Order
Fancy knives are fancy metal. For the purposes of proficiency and Knife's Edge, you treat martial knives as simple weapons.
Reverberating Spellcaster Feat 8
Druid
Prerequisites Iron Order
Your spells ring out like a bell. You gain the Reverberating Spell spellshape.
Design Note: I had to copy Reactive Striker to add a prerequisite to Reverberating Spell.
Alchemical Explorer Feat 10
Druid
Prerequisite Flame Order, Iron Order, or Stone Order
You mastery of one elemental order opens the door to similar orders and to alchemy. If you follow the anathema for Flame Order, Iron Order, or Stone Order, you are a member of that order for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. You also qualify for Order Magic for those orders. And you gain Alchemist Multiclass Dedication, but you can select another dedication feat even if you do not take any more feats from the Alchemist Multiclass archetype.
Design Note: Thematically, the six elemental orders: Flame Order for fire, Iron Order for metal, Leaf Order for wood, Stone Order for earth, Storm Order for air, and Wave Order for water--should be linked and have an easier time learning each other's feats. Thus, I offer a two-for-one deal on Order Explorer with an additional perk as a sweetener.
I made a mathematical construct based on the four corners of a tetrahedron to balance these offerings. Alchemical Explorer unites Flame, Iron, and Stone Orders. Garden Explorer unites Leaf, Stone, and Wave Orders. Hearth Explorer unites Flame, Leaf, and Storm Orders. Lightning Explorer unites Iron, Storm, and Wave Orders. A druid starting with an elemental order needs only three to cover everything. Animal and Untamed Orders are not elemental orders.
Lightning Explorer Feat 10
Druid
Prerequisite Iron Order, Storm Order, or Wave Order
You mastery of one elemental order lets you envision lightning from three different orders. Of you follow the anathema for Iron Order, Storm Order, or Wave Order, you are a member of that order for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. You also qualify for Order Magic for those orders. You gain the Thunder, Lightning, and Rain order spell.
Thunder, Lightning, and Rain [two-actions] Focus 5
Uncommon Concentrate Druid Electricity Manipulate Sonic
Based on Conductive Weapon, Rage of Elements pg. 142; Lightning Bolt, Player Core pg. 341; For Love For Lightning, Knights of Lastwall pg. 77; Personal Rain Cloud Pathfinder #151: The Show Must Go On pg. 78
Range touch; Targets 1 metal weapon that is unattended or attended by a willing creature
Duration 1 minute
You channel the power of a thunderstorm through the metal of a weapon. The target becomes a +2 shock thundering weapon. Once per turn, if you are holding the weapon, you may Sustain the spell to send a lightning bolt in 120-foot line that deals 2d6 electricity damage and 2d6 (basic Reflex save). The line becomes filled with rain clouds that extinguish non-magical flames and grant fire resistance 2 to creatures under them until the beginning of your next turn. Creatures with weakness to water take damage equal to their weakness at the end of each of their turns.
Heightened +2 The electricity and sonic damage of the lightning bolt increase by 1d6 each and the fire resistance increases by 2.
Iron Will Feat 16
Druid
Prerequisites Iron Order, master in Will
Your willpower is as strong as iron. Your proficiency rank for Will saves increases to legendary. When you roll a critical failure at a Will save, you get a failure instead.
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if we get a shifter i hope we get a dragon shifter archetype, the druid is already exceptional but a full dedicated melee class would be even better
that just made me realize, imagine if we got a shifter that worked like a summoner, where you select traits like wings or elemental resistance as feats
Dragon Barbarian with the Dragon Transformation feat hits the former pretty squarely.
The latter makes me think of the Synthetist Summoner, but yes it could totally be a Shifter too, maybe as a subclass actually.
Kind of a minor thing but I have a player doing leaf order who took it for thematic reasons but could not care less about their familiar. I'm hoping the new druid order gives a non-familiar take on being the plant druid.